I have been reading these forums for a year now and I like most of the comments given on these so I figured I would register and get in the mix. I am a Timberwolves fan and get upset every year from what they do in the draft and I am hoping with Kahn in place something can change. This is what I would like to see happen.
We have the #4, #16, and #23 picks this year. We need to trade either Jefferson or Love since they cannot play together because of their size/athleticism and the Centers they have now (Darko, Hollins) will never be anything great. There are many teams in the top 10 that are looking to draft a big so they might has well take advantage of the situation. With a lot of 1st round picks we can get some talent but we will be young for the next couple years. I would like to see Jefferson traded and the Pistons are a team that would want him. Trade Jefferson and the 16th pick form Rip and the #7 pick. This gives us #4 ,#7, and #23.
#4 – Cousins (6-11 C)
#7 – Paul George (6-9 SG/SF)
#23 – Ryan Richards (7ft PF/C)
This gives us the starting line-up of
PG – Flynn
SG – Rip
SF – George
PF – Richards/Love
C – Cousins
I know that this is a really young team which is why I thought of Rip to give some experience. This would also help Ellington develop at SG behind Rip. They would not be good for at least 3 years but that is a great young core to build off of. I think Ryan Richards is going to be a great PF in the league one day with his size, shooting, and handles. If you do not know much about him, check out this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyCbDcqGnKE
Let me know what you think.
A team doesn't get built overnight.... no reason to force things by trying to accumulate all of the pieces at once. Rip is a player for an established team trying to make a final push. And you have Paul George being selected too early (you have a good to draft George at #16). The biggest mistake the Wolves could make is giving away one of their PF's. They are both a valuable and you don't give one away because you have 2. Not many teams have PF's as good as either of them.
The Wolves need to wait and trade form a position of strength such as when a contending team needs an injury replacement or a team needs 1 more piece of the puzzle to become a contender. At this point the Wolves best bet would be to accumulate as much talent as possible sort of in a way Portland did a 4 years ago. Then figure out which players fit their system and trade and draft later to fill in the blanks.
I really liked your first post and agree with the basic principles of it. I do however think that Minnesota wouldn't have to give away their 16th to make that trade. Rip has fallen off considerably and they are tied in to Ben Gordon and are high on Stucky so they are willing to give Rip away to any suitor. They need size and inside scoring which Big Al would definetly give them. Jefferson is more than likely better than any big that they could get with the 7th pick so I think Detroit would jump on this offer. Minnesota would have a lot of young talent on the team and a real opportunity to build a team similar to OKC.
Another point of slight contention is with your analysis of Richards. I fell for a similar prospect like Richards last year and I think he is very similar: Alexis Ajinca. Not to say that Ajinca or Richards won't become anything in the league but I think ultimately they will be players that intice you with they're physical attributes but can't really put it together on the court. Overall though I really liked the analysis and think the trade seems very plausible.
Why bail the Pistons out and take a bad contract. Jefferson could get you a better younger cheaper player or players. I would keep Jefferson and get rid of Love. Jefferson is a better player and if Minny can get Turner they have a solid young core of Flynn, Turner, Jefferson. They may also get another solid player with their 23rd pick. They can also get someone for Love. they could possibly have a solid young team with some depth up to 9 deep if they work it out this way.
Why would they take on RIP's contract in exchange for Big Al then draft an unproven Cousins. The team could fill in their needs by drafting. with the 4th pick they get Wesley Johnson, I know a lot would say Cousins should be picked here but it would be just like having a same player that plays inside that could resort to redundancy of how Big Al plays, unlike Johnson's proven range that could benefit both his game and Big Al's. then with the 16th pick get some one like James Anderson another perimeter scorer and with the 23rd pick get some one like Alabi whose gonna be a project and if it would work out right his gonna be a good fit with either Big Al or Love.
Ok i see where your going but i dont think the Rip and 7th pick for Al is a good trade. I do think they need to trade Big Al. He is very selfish and is an awful passer! And i think Love is going to be better then him very soon. Love is the better shooter and passer. And he is a much better team player! Big Al is out to get his own points not out there to win.
this is what Wolves should do:
trade #4 and Love for #2 and Brand(if they could do the trade without giving Love the better), i know taking Brand contract and giving Love is a lot but i think that the only way Sixers will agree and Turner is worth it, he is the MAN. in this trade Wolves get to keep #16 and #23 and maybe later in the season they could rid of Brand contract using Rubio rights(Portland and the Knicks could be partners), also Brand is still player who could contribute.
then you draft Turner with #2, Paul George with #16 and Larry Sanders with #23.
you gets this young team to start with:
Thank you for pointing that out caleb. I agree he is only there to get his own and I consider him a black hole. Love will be a solid PF and I would rather see us keep him. After thinking it over more I agree that Rip is not the right choice. Someone metioned grabbing Alabi but I think that would be an awful choice. He will be no better than Darko or Hollins in his prime. If we are going to get a big late, Richards is for sure the way to go because of his versatility. George is an anigma and there are some other SF's that could be selected but I see him having the highest up-side (along with Babbit) but I think they will both be gone at #16.
your trading away a guy who's if healthy could easily be a 20 10 guy for RIP with a bloated contract and for the 7th pick, unless if that pick is Evan Turner. I think Minny could get something better from other teams compare to what's the Pistons is offering. And picking Alabi is not that bad with the 23rd pick unless someone like Orton is available. And picking Alabi would be nice due to his size and length which I think would benefit the team. And Milicic is still undecided whether his going to stay in the NBA or back to Europe. Your Richards guy is way too high for the 23rd pick, cause I think you really like the guy and i respect that, you can pick him in the 2nd round and stash him for a year or two in Europe and see how well does it go.
Minnesota must find a way to get Turner without loosing Big Al!
Turner, Jefferson combo would be fantastic for the future, it will be easy to build on this great team cause if you have combo of great big man presents with inside scoring and a great playmaker/scorer with great size you just need to find complementary piecescause you have the perfect core!
Have you seen RIP's contract? And how old he is? There's no way in hell the Wolves would do that trade. As for selecting Johnson, I think I've addressed this ad nasueum on this site based on my fan meetings with Kahn and Hoiberg, the Wolves won't select Johnson out right, if anything, and this is their worse case scenario, they will select Cousins and trade him to SAC or GS for Johnson and another young guy like Anthony Randolph or Jason Thompson. Not saying GS or SAC would agree to that, but that's the kind of deal they're looking for with trading Cousins.
i know that drafting Johnson would be just some kind of worst case scenario cause i myself didn't like Johnson and since day 1 they want Turner, so what i have done is trying to fill their needs by drafting players who can fill the holes not necessarily saying its a good choice. And I didn't put into considerations the possible trades that may happen cause it would be just another scenario.
I said their worst case scenario would be to draft Cousins and to trade him to move down, in no scenario are they going to be selecting Johnson outright. They will only select one of the three, Turner, Favors, or Cousins, in that order.
If I am the Wolves, Love is untouchable at this point for me (unless your getting an allstar caliber player in return). He is an optimal talent for the triangle offense. He was built for it, the prototype PF for the system. Big Al is the one who needs to go and he needs to go now while his stock is decent. Then they need to get that #2 pick IMO even if it means having to take on Brand's contract. The fact is nobody is saying Brand is a bad player, he is just vastly overpaid. And even as a T-Wolves fan, I can admit we will not be contending for at least 3-4 more seasons. We can afford to take on Brand for now as long as we get a franchise type player in Turner. I don't think many teams will be looking at Minny as a possible landing spot via FA, and with our &$#%#&@! luck in the draft we need to make a move now while we can.
In the unlikelihood that we can't get that 2 spot for some reason, then I think we need to assure ourselves of getting Cousins. While he may not be exactly what we need (as we still have a void at the 2/3), he may end up as the best player in this draft. As I said b4, we won't be contending for some time, so we need to go BPA in this position IMO. If it works out, he ends up as our C next to K-Love and in rotation with Darko. If he doesn't work out, then his stock should still be high and we can get great value for him via trade.
As far as picks 16 and 23 here what I would like to do...
If we move up for Turner...
One of the picks most likely is gone and with the remaining pick I feel we should look for a defensive big or if a great talent falls, take him. If that remaining pick is 23, I also am not opposed to taking a great scorer like Crawford or Avery. I'd love to get Babbitt or George too if possible.
If we keep our picks...
#4 we take Cousins
#16 we look to take a solid wingman or 2 guard if one falls (a guy like George or BABBITT would be amazing if either were to fall)
#23 depending on what happened at 16, we either take a great scorer, a defensive big, or a project for the future. I am also not opposed to trading up 16 and 23 to move up for a guy like Xavier Henry.
I think if we don't make any trades this is a real problem. I love this draft, but having 5 picks, we certainly won't be putting all these guys on our youthful roster. I'd much rather get 1 or 2 top talents rather than settling for guys at 16 and 23 who may or may not fit our system and probably become role players on a team that is already full of them. We need starter quality players now, and if that means we can only get 1 or 2 in this draft I am fine with that. I'd much rather have a few starters than a list of projects/role players.
I don't mean draft cousins and look to trade him. I'm saying in the unlikely event that he doesn't pan out playing in our system, we can look to trade him if necessary after a couple years. Im not looking to trade him right away if he get him, he's way too talented. Hes leaps and bounds better than even a guy like Favors IMO. He's hands down the most dominant big man in the draft.
Im not exactly sure why everyone is so in love with Kevin Love...I might be wrong but I really don't see him develloping into a star in this league..Al Jefferson however I think has star potential even though he just came off a down year(explanable because of his injury). Sure Big Al doesn't play defense but neither does Love and I think both of them together isn't a good idea moving on in the future I'd like to see them try to get demarcus Cousins I think him and Jefferson together would be somewhat similar to a gasol and bynum frontcourt (before you bash me I just meant Girth wise not skill wise) and would make for a pretty formidable frontline the only problem i could see with this is defense..just a thought
Are you kidding me?? Richards at starting five?
Are you kidding me?? Richards at starting five?
Are you kidding me?? Richards at starting five?
I know this wont happen but this would be my best case scenario for the Twolves draft night:
4. Greg Monroe
16. Xavier Henry/James Anderson/Paul George- I doubt all 3 will be gone, so take one of them at 16
23. Terrico White
I personally think the Wolves would come out with 3 guys in a top 6 rotation.
At some point they need to stop RE building and just build, but with the roster they got, I'd scrap it all and start fresh, and a scenario where Monroe, White, and one of those wings is there...I'd build with that. Go along with Flynn and there might be something there.
The atraction to Kevin Love is the amount of rebounds and 2nd chances
he gives an team. At the same time he doesn't complain if plays aren't run for him. In other words, he's a good team player that likes to do the dirty work that many guys flat out refuse to do. The way he rebounds can't be taught... either you can or you can't. He's an excellent passer that has been patiently waiting for his playing time with out whining. The kid is good and deserves the opportunity to play 35-40 min. per game.
tcox.. its funny cause first thing u said was teams dont get built overnight... u must have seem to forget after the 06-07 season that boston got allen and kg... while getting rondo 1 year earlier in a draft trade...
so yes... teams do get built overnight...
All the post make sense but the Wolves should try and trade up to draft Turner at 2 and if they have to give up 16 and 23 they have to do it. They also have 2 second round picks too. They should try and hold onto Big Al until his value returns to where it was at and trading K.Love isn't a good idea because he is still under his rookie deal. Love rebounds,shoots and passes to well to trade anytime soon. The Wolves should use there draft picks before trading there two PF.
Well actually I was not the one that said teams do not get built overnight. That was Steve from Nowthen but I do agree with him. What happened to the Celtics was very rare and the Timberwolves are not in a position to get 3 future hall of famers. They are in the position right now to gather a good core of young talent and maybe a proven player with a trade.
Even the Celtics had their scorer( Paul P).,PG (Rondo) and center already in place. If they had started with just Ray Allen and KG they would not have won immediately.
How about the 4, 23 and Sessions for the 2nd? It would be great to be able to pick up another player like Anderson, George or Henry at 16 so they can start to load up on talent. Then, trade Big Al and try to get more athletic up front.
That would be assuming that the 76ers want Sessions. They already have their share of average guards> With their already bloated payroll I doubt they'd want him.
I don't think that is enough, I mean the Sixers are in the power position, they don't have to trade the pick and they know you guys desperately want Turner. Stefanski stated he needed to be blown away to trade #2 and what your offered I don't think would blow him away.
Maybe get creative and get Dalembert and Big Al involved. No way Brand is part of the trade, but Big Al gives Philly scoring and rebounding that Sam doesn't give them and their salaries are similar.
The 76ers can say what they want.... but if they actually want Cousins insted of Turner they will make the trade. Turner kind of dupes Iggy as far as skillset goes.