Exactly how the title sounds. Whos better overall and why? Things got heated between my cousin and I during this debate. He ranks KG above Tim Duncan in the talks of Top 5 power forwards of all time because he considers KG to be more versatile. To which I responded, "you're an idiot." IMO, Tim is fighting Karl Malone for that top spot and KG is old news. He passed him up years ago. But I want your opinions and thoughts.
This match-up will never die......Fundamentals vs Big Ticket
No contest..... Tim Duncan has (slightly) better stats on much better teams with more championships, more MVP awards and he has done it all with the same team. Duncan vs. Shaq is a better debate IMO as I feel a lot of people will pick either way...
It's close but I think his post game sets him apart. Also, Duncan has always had the advantage in terms of coach and teammates.
was this a legit question before kg went to the celtics to form the big 3? no it wasnt. say what you want about supporting casts but tim duncan has been the number 1 option on that team for 14 years now. he is the best power forward ever. kg as the number 1 option in minny has 1 playoffs out of the first round(lost in conference finals to the lakers). kg is an outstanding player but imo, no power forward is better than td.
Tim is the best. There is no battling karl malone becuz he never won a ring. He accomplished alot but tim accomplished more. And KG is a great player but overall tim has to take the crown
Kg is the better player of the 2. TD has done more with titles and such but he has always had the better teams. 1 vs 1 KG is faster just as strong and all around just more skilled. If you put TD with the Wolves and put KG with the spurs the spurs would have at least one more title. And the wolves would never of gotten out of the first round. And i know i may be biased but KG always was better head to head.
KG was not better then Tim Duncan at ALL.
Duncan was HEAD AND SHOULDERS above KG
How can you say KG is the better of the two AND that the Spurs would have gotten at least one more title with Garnett instead of Duncan???? Its irrelevant and never happened and is like saying Malone would have won multiple titles if he didn't run into Jordan..lol.... And besides Garnett only got them out of the first round once anyway so I guarantee Duncan would at least match that, too.
Lol.... This is like the first time in like 20 post I've agreed with you man..... +1
Can anyone name me one relevant player that KG has played with before coming to the Celtics? People put way to much emphasis on winning titles when it comes to individual accomplishments. No one wins alone. NO ONE. Especially in the Wild West, and just the fact that those Wolves teams made it the playoffs shows you how great of a player KG was in the day.
Stephon Marbury, Wally Sczerbiak, back when he was good look at his stats, Latrell Spreewell, Sam Cassell
KG was great...but Duncan was better.
He's considered the best PF ever, not only because he won, but because he was big in big games. Before 2005, I believe KG never got out round 1. That was back in the best of 5 series too.
Ok I will recognize their individual accomplishments, too:
Duncan: 2x MVP, rookie of the year, 12x all-star, 9x all-nba first team, 3x all-nba second team, 13x all-nba defensive team,
Garnett: 1x MVP, 13x all-star, 4x all- nba first team, 3x all-nba second team, 10x all-nba defensive team
It looks to me like Duncan clearly has the advantage in the individual accolades department as well
Simply....Tim Duncan...If KG gets a couple more titles in Boston then i would give it another look
Both great players, sure to be in the Hall of Fame as soon as the are eligible. Personally I prefered KG as a player to Tim Duncan as a neutral watching either of them play but overall I have to agree that Tim Duncan has had more impact on the NBA and is the slightly better player.
We have been lucky to have two such great PF's in the NBA at the same time as well. Also Duncan must be up there with the Mailman as the best PF ever but KG isn't far behind. Tim Duncan is also easily the best PF who plays as a C ever.
Stephon Marbury, Sam Cassell, Latrell Spreewell, are probably the best names he's played with pre big 3. Having said that, he's always seemed more overall versatile due to his begining a 3, but I think that versatility is what has always held him back. KG played like your modern day faceup 4 who plays almost like a guard shooting many fades and floaters and such. Duncan learned the ability to face up but has that uncanny ability to play a real back to the basket game the way a center does. Both players are terrific passers who you can run your offense through, but at the end of the Timmy's consistency to play like a big, is what seperates the two and gives Timmy D the titles and the honor of being top arguably the top pf of all time. KG's young golden years were stolen with his unwillingness to ask for a trade, and the T-Wolves inability to find players worth a crap.
Tim Duncan isnt fighting Malone for that no.1,Tim Duncan is the greatest PF ever...
Like Iguapops420 Said, K.G was a small Forward for most Have of his Career. Joe Smith, Eddie Griffin, Googs and Christian Latineer, were the Power Forwards during his main years. Duncan Played the 4 80% of his Career, with the rest switching between the 4/5. Hell the Year Sean Elliot was hurt he moonlighted as a 3 with Robinson.
I love K.G. Skill Set, But I gotta go duncan.
"Like Iguapops420 Said, K.G was a small Forward for most Have of his Career. Joe Smith, Eddie Griffin, Googs and Christian Latineer, were the Power Forwards during his main years. Duncan Played the 4 80% of his Career, with the rest switching between the 4/5. Hell the Year Sean Elliot was hurt he moonlighted as a 3 with Robinson."
K.G. was SF?
Sam Cassell played the center to...........Probaly why Saunders got fired
Duncan's post game separates him from Garnett...
But Garnett is the better defender.....
Garnett is not the better defender. Tim Duncan was a elite interior defender his whole career. Even today.
Yeah Duncan is a great post defender...But Garnett tries to defend guards out on the perimeter.....
Tim Duncan has more accomplishments, but KG is right there in discussion when looking at them individually. Lets not fool ourselves... Duncan has been blessed to be put in a good organization, and he played alongside one of the best centers of all-time, so we can't deny that helped Duncan become more accomplished. KG wasn't too lucky in that sense. The main thing KG has over Duncan is his versatility, but Duncan has been the better PF. Both of them are two different types of players with completely different NBA histories, so it's really hard to compare.
Yeah Tim Duncan has always been a better defender than KG IMO too. Duncan goes about it in a different way than Garnett does on D, but Duncan really was an elite post defender if you watch him closely.
"Tim Duncan has more accomplishments, but KG is right there in discussion when looking at them individually. Lets not fool ourselves... Duncan has been blessed to be put in a good organization, and he played alongside one of the best centers of all-time"
- So because of that, I could say Kobe and Ray Allen are close....Kobe played with the greatest Center of all time while Ray Allen's best teammate in Milwaukee was Glenn Robinson and Tim Thomas.
Also Rudeboy, yea, Garnett defends outside the post because when he played in his prime...he was easy to move out the paint. He was considered a SF/PF coming out of college. He has a SF body in a PF height.
Its funny when you look at the numbers KG is ALOT worse sence he has been in Boston. His teams are better and his stats have gone way done. I used to say if the switched teams, when he was in minny, that he would be way better than TD, but thats clearly not true. When he was in minny his stats dominated over TD, but now I would say TD is better. Its also interesting that KG has been in the league 2 more years and TD has dropped ALOT this year were KG is about on par with last couple of years.
There you go, knicksboy1..
How can you even argue that playing beside Robinson or Shaq didn't help Duncan's or Kobe's game? Please explain that to me how that wouldn't help their games. I never said Tim Duncan wouldn't be any less of a player, from an individual aspect, if he played somewhere else, but obviously it helps to play with great players. Ask KG or Allen that... Tim Duncan is the better player, which I never said he wasn't, but KG has the right to be in that discussion even though he might not be the better PF. It's not like Tim Duncan is on a whole other tier than Garnett. And really they are different two different types of players, like you suggested.
In Kevin Garnett's defense, he was actually putting up Minny numbers until he got hurt in Boston. If you actually look at his stats, you'd notice that he played much less mins in Boston (6-8 mins less), which was a positive, and his per min stats showed that he was doing the same things he was doing in Minny. He wasn't in his prime in Boston either...
KG came out of high school. But that was an accident I'm sure so it's all good. But anyway, there is a reason Tim Duncan's teams have always been in the top percent. Because he anchors defenses. While one could say he had David Robinson, he's also had Matt Bonner beside of him. Not exactly the most intimidating defender. KG is a great defender when put beside of someone who can actually defend the post. Part of the reason he had Rasho as a running mate for so many years. Joining the Celtics put him in the best defensive position he's beenin as he's able to rotate, and use his athleticism/intensity to cover the whole court. Tim is just so consistent and fundamentally sound when it comes to defense. I'm taking Duncan 9 times out of 10.
BTW, blood, I agree he is the best pf of all time, it's up for debate as you can't discount Malone's individual accomplishments are out of this world.
Agreed that KG and Timmy are in the same conversation, but like you said they are different players and it's all about preference as you're not going to go wrong with either. Just prefer my big to not shy away from contact. Beside of a Pau Gasol, I take Tim. Beside of Andrew Bynum, I take KG. To start a franchise, I take tim. It's as simple as that for me.
id take duncan. KG did all the little things and was a complete player, but i never trusted him as the go to guy in close playoff games. I felt when games got tight down the stretch, KG turned into a scottie pippen type. Duncan could put the team on his shoulders more. ALthough in my opinion KG was the better defender although both are elite defenders and in their prime could have won mulitple defensive players of the year.
This is tough.
Duncan was blessed to land with the Spurs... They're a great organization. Garnett on the other hand had Kevin McHale.
Garnett's coach was Flip Saunders... Duncan's was Greg Poppovich. Garnett's best teammates were Sam "My Precious" Cassell and Latrell "choke 'em out" Sprewell (I didn't count Marbury since he wasn't there for long) and Duncan's has been David Robinson, Manu Ginobli and Tony Parker.
Then add in the fact they're both different players. Both great defenders, but defend differently. Duncan was a paint protector, while Garnett was a guy who could literally defend every position on the floor, help on the weakside, and was great defending the pick and roll. Garnett the more versatile defender, but Duncan the better paint protector.
I'd go with Duncan though. He was the better paint dominator at both ends of the floor and defensive anchor like someone said above. Duncan has better intangibles in my opinion too. Garnett was more talented, but I just think Duncan was the better building block.
"I felt when games got tight down the stretch, KG turned into a scottie pippen type."
I agree I always thought he was very Scottie. He's just able be to so much more impact wise when he isn't the primary focus defensively or offensively. He did all that he could to make it to the finals, but just happened to run into Kobe-Shaq. Can't really blame him for that. I still don't understand why those T-Pups teams couldn't get more talent around him. Even the worst teams are able to get talent. Yet they could only manage to muster up one decent team for him.
Just for the record if you're talking individual accomplishments don't forget Garnett's DPOY award.
KG is probably the most talented power forward in NBA history. His low post footwork was something else... That little fadeaway he used to do is one of my favorite moves of any player. He was tremendously skilled. He had a complete game, but just seemed to lack something mentally.
Exactly, for all of that talent and footwork, he has a sidekick mentality. And while his footwork is a revelataion, it's partly due to refs not calling the travel. Guy switches his pivot foot constantly.
Naw lol... No travel. He just probably spent hours in the gym working on his pivots. He probably practiced pivots in his sleep.
KG set up moves between his jab steps, ball/pump fakes and pivots that I didn't even think was possible to do. The closest person I've seen use pivots like he does in the post is Kobe.
KG has spent more time at pf then sf. But early in his career he played primarily at sf.
I like K.G. more but i would have to say Duncan had the better career.
KG was a sf I believe until his 3rd year or so. Actually playing the position is irrelevant as I was just using it as a reference to how KG played the game. Which was the skills of a 3 playing the 4 and doing it well. Unfortunately, it was that same skill that kept him from being as good as Tim. While he may have had more skills, he wasn't the better player.
KG had the better peak in his career, his MVP numbers and the seasons around that were freakish, but I think you have to look at the entire body of work and I think the Big Fundamental with his rings, his 3 Finals MVPs and until this year he had averaged a double double in every NBA season, while Garnett, since he came out of high school, took longer to develop and fell off earlier and because of that has 7 seasons in which he has not averaged a double double. Stats arent everything, but despite KG's more versitile inside/ouside game I think Duncan has to be regarded as the better of the two especially from a career standpoint. When you get into overall skill then yeah, it gets a lot closer and could go either way, but to me you have to look at both career and skill level and Duncan's superior accolades, titles, and consistant high level production put him on top overall.
So with all that being said,can we say that the top 3 power forwards of all time are 1.Duncan 2.Malone 3.Garnett
I'd have to put Barkley before Garnett even though Garnett has the edge on Barkley defensively..
In game seven in 2004 against Sacramento garnett put up a 30-20 game with 5 blocks and 4 steals. (or vise versa on the blocks and steals. either way though, unbelievable)
He held Weber to 16 points on 17 FGA.
Then during the next series, he played out of his mind. they lost 4-2 to LA, but he had to play point guard with Cassell out. he averaged about a 25-15-6 without cassell.
He is one of the greatest pick and roll defenders ever to play the game. The bulls ran the pick and roll in game one (the classic first round game two playoffs ago) over 40 times. there is no way that could have come close to happening had he been in. Garnett guards all 5 positions. and he doesnt put only his heart and soul into the game, but he forces everyone else too.
I think duncan is better, but this is definitely a good discussion because the case for garnett CAN be made.
Top 5 pf's
Hate those Celtics, but man they've had some talent at the 4.
Exactly, KG had some talent around him, but couldn't win. He was knocked out the first round for like 7 years in a row.....if you swapped Duncan and Garnett, that would have never happened.
In the 2003 Finals Duncan averaged 25 points, 17 boards, 5 assists nd 5.5 blocks... thats quadruple threat play.... sickening numbers, in the 98 finals wit Robinson at his side he had 27 points 14 boards 3 asissts nd 3 blocks, talk about ballin hard when it matters, TD drain a 3 on the Suns in the 08 playoffs i think? in OT to keep the game going. His team was the team to put an end to the Lakers Dynasty in da early 2000's... He's average a double double in every season of his career except this one nd it's still a 9.6 rpg... nd thats only bcuz he's at a career low in minutes
Nope, probably not. The Spree/E.T. team would have actually been the equivelant at the time of a GINO/Parker tandem. And it actually did have Rasho as well. A big man who Tim Duncan won beside of even though Rasho had his best statistical years with KG. KandiMan was coming off his two best (ONLY)years prior to joing KG. Joe Smith was a former #1 pick, albeit underachieved. Heck, I remember once Garnett saying something about Joe being the one who taught him how to play the 4 defensively. Probably why he's so much better as a team defender who uses length.
I just can't bring myself to think K.G. is as good as Duncan when IMO, Duncan is a #1 option while K.G. is Robin like I said Earlier. Wow, For a moment there I imagined those two as teammates.
Personally, I think Dirk/KG and Duncan/Shaq are better debates. Though Dirk isn't a champ yet, but also never got to be a #2.
Steroid How can you not put KG in front of charles barkely considering all his skills and his great defense combined with an actual desire to win which Charles Barkely has been accused of too often to not have
"Stephon Marbury, Wally Sczerbiak, back when he was good look at his stats, Latrell Spreewell, Sam Cassell"
I actually laughed at that. Really, why even say anything? And the one year he had that team? They went to the WCF. When Wally Sczerbiak and Fred Hoiberg are some of the best players you've played with then you know theres a problem.