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Thunder's Next Move

don042488
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Thunder's Next Move

A lot of people talk about the departure of James Harden and Jeff Green, when it comes to OKC, but Nenad Kristic was a big part of their turn around too...He was a 7'0 who spaces the floor with his great 17 foot jumper and at times could step out and hit 3's...He gave them solid numbers of 11 points, 7 boards with good field goal percentages...The Thunder hasn't been able to replace him since he fled overseas, during the lockout...I think it's time to part ways with Perkins and go with a more offensive big man, who can spread the floor...I say the Thunder trade Perkins & Perry Jones 111, to the Raptors, for Andrea Bargnani. Then with their draft pick in this year's draft, trade down and acquire more assets, and obtain a defensive backup for Bargnani, in Kansas's Jeff Whitley


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I think the loss of Kristic

I think the loss of Kristic helped the Thunder defese immensly, they got Perkins, he's been by no means elite, but he actually plays defense, unlike Kristic.

I think the Thunder need inside scoring: Ibaka is more of a face-up jump-shooting big, it would be nice to pair him with some-one who can score inside.

Bargniani is not that someone, Bargniani-Ibaka will provide absolutely no inside scoring whatsoever.
Meanwhile Perry Jones may turn out to be a good player, might actually become a more effective PF than Bargniani.

I honestly don't know what the Thunder should do, but not that.

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Next Move

Even tho everyone on this site gets negged everytime they post a trade i'm going to go for it. We saw how much westbrook meant to this Thunder team but I don't think critics were 100% wrong in saying that he's not the perfect compliment to Durant. Durant needs someone, or better yet 2 people, that can create their own shot but still hold it down on the defensive end. So here is the trade I came up with...

Russell Westbrook (13m) & Kendrick Perkins (7m) ... for ... Mike Conley (7m) & Marc Gasol (13m)

This gives the Thunder 2 complimentary scorers inside and outside that can hold down both ends while durant isnt in the game. Also it allows the griz to to maintain a high level of defense while providing them with the late game go-to scorer they need. it also allows westbrook to now take the bulk of touches on offense. Marc is incredibly valuable to the grizzlies but its almost impossible to pass up on a talent like westbrook while for the thunder, this is about the only real move i can see them make and still getting good, experienced but young talent in return.

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Trade

Actually one of the more reasonable trades I've seen posted on here, I think it could benefit both sides, but I don't think we would ever see it happen, Perkins contract is becoming as untradeable as they come, and me being an OKC fan, I don't think Westbrook is a near big enough upgrade over Conley to pry DPoY Marc Gasol away from the grizzlies

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Memphis is 4 wins away from

Memphis is 4 wins away from being in the finals. Why would they trade 2 of their best 3 players? These kind of trades just don't happen.

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This

I'm not sure how to respond to this, because i can't be sure you're serious... but do you honestly believe the thunders missing piece is Andrea Bargnani?

Krstic never put up 11/7 in OKC 'with good percentages' his best season he averaged 9.4/5.5 on 50.4 True Shooting Percentage... Whilst being an absolute sieve on the defensive end

Andrea Bargnani is not an NBA center, he should never have been considered as such... And what use would Perkins serve in Toronto? They are 100% set with Jonas Valanciunas...

OKC have excellent spacing, KD/Thabo are both 40% 3pt shooters, as is Martin if he is brought back (doubtful) and if not, Jeremy Lamb is an excellent shooter... Serge Ibaka does exactly what you described in Krstic's offensive game, which is knock down jump shots from 15 feet right out to the corner 3, only he does so at a MUCH higher clip than Nenad ever has...

What OKC do need, is a replacement level center, Perkins has never been himself since his ACL tear.. This draft is one of the deepest we have seen at the Center position, I would love to seem them pick up a high potential guy like Steven Adams with the 12th pick, and develop him... Withey could be an option with OKCs 29th or 32nd draft picks... they have plenty of assets, they don't NEED to trade down from 12 in a weak draft...

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Second that and I'd like to

Second that and I'd like to add that Andrea Bargnani is not actually an NBA level player. He was drafted based on his production at 18 and he basically never got much better. He has never been a good defender, he has never been able to rebound or block shots. And he has never been able to score efficiently. Also his team goes on winning streaks basically every time he gets hurt and can't suit up.

Imagine Withey and Ibaka on the floor at the same time. Guards would certainly be scarred to head to the rim with all that shot blocking on the floor.

don042488
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Here's My Logic

Bargnani who is a perimeter threat can lure the Marc Gasol's, Dwight Howard's, Omir Asik's, DeAndre Jordan's and etc of the Western Conference out to the 3 point line, and away from the paint, giving the Thunder better rebounding opportunities...When you have a 3 point threat in Bargnani who can shoot and take you off the dribble, with a dribble drive, you can't double on Durant or Westbrook, which gives the Thunder more scoring opportunities...Ibaka doesn't have to score down low, all he has to do is cut, catch alley-oops, and get put backs

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Bargnani has shot about 30%

Bargnani has shot about 30% from three for the last two years. And him "dribble driving" is laughable. He stretches the floor, but only just barely.

And if you think your team will have a rebounding edge overall by playing Bargnani, you haven't been paying attention. Maybe slight better chance on offensive boards (but not by Bargs, but I will give you that Westbrook could take advantage of the space you mention), but then you would have the centers you mention destroying Bargs on OKC's defensive glass. Net, your team's rebounding gets significantly worse. Though admittedly Perks is already a problem in this area.

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Perkins

Perkins 8.6 rebounds per 36 isn't great, but it isn't awful either, the team also has a significantly better defensive rebounding rate when he is on the floor...

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Perkins

Perkins 8.6 rebounds per 36 isn't great, but it isn't awful either, the team also has a significantly better defensive rebounding rate when he is on the floor... Bargnani however, is a HORRIBLE rebounder

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This isn't NBA 2K13. Every

This isn't NBA 2K13. Every coach would put the PF on Bargnani and the C on Ibaka, regardless of how they're listed...

don042488
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Defensive Backups

Bargnani with Hasheem Thabeet & Jeff Withey as backups, would give the Thunder 3 7'0's at the center position...What Bargnani lacks in defense, Thabeet & Withey would make up for it, and Bargnani would make up for their lack in offense

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I don't see how they'll make

I don't see how they'll make up for each other since they won't be playing at the same time. Bargniani would be playing 75% of the time which would mean 75% of the time almost any bigman would be destroing the Thunder.
Also Bargniani is a PF, in an Ibaka-Bargniani combo, Ibaka plays C.

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The Thunder would not want to

The Thunder would not want to take on Bargnani's deal and as said above, Bargnani does not give them the type of post player they perhaps need.

don042488
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As For The Raptors

The Raptors are going more with a defensive mindset, so going big with Perkins at center, with Jonas at power forward makes sense...Perk, Jonas, Rudy Gay, DeRozan, and Lowry, is a team that can definitely make the playoffs

don042488
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I Can't With You Guys

Did the Mavericks team who won a chip had a low post option? No!!! Are their even a lot of low post scorers in the league? No!!! So why u guys are making it seem like in today's NBA, you need a low post scorer to win a chip? And furthermore, in today's NBA, Ibaka or Bargnani can play center...A lot of centers in the league now would've been power forwards in the 90's and early 2000's, it's a different game today

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Andrea Bargnani would really

Andrea Bargnani would really help the Thunder's offense. He would really spread the floor and you can't put a small on him because he can post them up. I just worry that the negative affect he'd have on the Thunder's defense wouldn't make it worth it, especially given how his contract limits their flexibility to acquire more talent. The Thunder's offense is so good already that the benefits brought by Bargnani's offense probably would outweigh the negatives brought on the defensive end.

When Westbrook is healthy (knock on wood) next year in the playoffs, there will be a lot of pressure lifted off of Durant. He will get more easy buckets even without a great offensive center. I think the Thunder should not make any panic moves this offseason, just be smart and improve through the draft.

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I think Bargnani would be great in OKC if he were given Amnesty

The Thunder wouldn't want to trade for Bargnani straight up but if he were a modestly priced Free Agent I think he'd be a great addition...He and Ibaka would need a Perkins type to do the dirty work too, but I still think its not likely that Toronto pull the plug...

I am interested in seeing OKC's next move because they seemed so close yet so far away from a Championship stand point...They should have never traded Harden in hindsight, hopefully Martin and Lamb make up for his impact on offense...

My biggest question for the Thunder is What do you have planned for Perry Jones III??? Would they trade him for an offensive Big like Spencer Hawes in Philadelphia??? The Sixers could use his length and potential at Sf/Pf ...The Thunder could use a Center with some offensive skill and size next Ibaka...

What about it Perry Jones for Spencer Hawes???

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Raptors Fan's Opnion

I think Raptors are weary of taking back more salary, which is why they didn't want to deal Bargnani for Boozer. Perkins has a bad contract, but it's still a little cheaper than Bargnani, and he could provide the vet leadership off the bench that the Raptors sorely lack. I think Bargnani for Perkins, Jones, 29th Pick would work for both teams. Raptors get a late first to help improve the bench, plus a young forward and a vet bigman off the bench that could help mentor Jonas Valanciunas. Thunder get a skilled offensive bigman that can space the floor, fits well alongside Ibaka, and they still keep their lotto to pick to draft a young center like Plumlee or Zeller.

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Bagnani's value is absolutely

Bagnani's value is absolutely rock bottom. He's an embarrassingly bad defender and rebounder, and the least efficient big man scorer in the league. And on top of that he's making 23mil over the next 2 years. Perkins isn't great but at least he contributes on one end of the floor, and cheaper too. And you think OKC giving up two young assets would make it work?

Laughable. Absolutely laughable.

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Bagnani's value is absolutely

Bagnani's value is absolutely rock bottom. He's an embarrassingly bad defender and rebounder, and the least efficient big man scorer in the league. And on top of that he's making 23mil over the next 2 years. Perkins isn't great but at least he contributes on one end of the floor, and cheaper too. And you think OKC giving up two young assets would make it work?

Laughable. Absolutely laughable.

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Perkins has even worse trade,

Perkins has even worse trade value, considering some teams are actually interested in trading for Bargnani. Bargnani has had two 20 pt seasons, a rarity for a bigman, while Perkins contributes nothing on the offensive end, plus he has regressed as a player. There are a ton of cheap veterans that could easily replace and even surpass what Perkins does for OKC like Jermaine O'Neal. So if anything, you're comment is the one that's laughable.

fastdan
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You talk about regressing

You talk about regressing while Bargnani shot 39.9% from the field.

The guy is terrible at both ends of the floor, has a losers attitude, and is injury prone, all for 23mil in the next two years. I'm from Canada and have been watching this guy for years, hoping that he could become a productive player, but he's not, and never will be.

Perkins is overpaid and is indeed regressing but he brings something to a winning team, and for about 6mil less

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That's what happens when

That's what happens when you're injured for most of the season and get sporadic playing time, genius. If he was the kind of player that people were hoping for, people wouldn't even consider trading him for Perkins. And until the 2012 season, he wasn't injury prone at all, just bad luck.

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They should look to see if

They should look to see if the Suns are willing to part with Gortat. Phoenix is in rebuilding mode and might look to add a young piece instead of holding onto to Gortat who is a sold center smack dab in the prime of his career at a decent price point.

Maybe Perkins and OKC's first rounder for Gortat.

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Perk has negative trade

Perk has negative trade value. Many GMs would cut him even if he were making league minimum. No one wants to pay top dollar for no offense and six rebounds per game. And Gortat as a good NBA center has much more value than a mid-round draft choice.

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The Jazz need perimiter

The Jazz need perimiter scoring and the Thunder need low post scodring, have the Jazz sign and trade Big Al for K. Martin and a late first round draft pick. The problem with this idea is giving your compitition in your own division/conference the help they need. For the Jazz though it would make them better as they will probably let Big Al go anyway and Martin would give them much needed outside scoring. Maybe throw Burks in for future or other draft considerations if the Thunder were wanting to replace Martin with another 2 guard or maybe the Thunder could throw in Jackson or Lamb instead of a draft pick..

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I think the Thunder are going

I think the Thunder are going to move up and draft Oladipo by trading some combination of prospects and picks to Charlotte. Oladipo is a perfect fit for OKC and with Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones, and multiple draft picks they would be able to snag him.

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WHAT?

Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones, AND MULTIPLE DRAFT PICKS? FOR OLADIPO???? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
I honestly wouldn't do Lamb for Oladipo straight up...

Lamb is taller, longer, younger, has shown he can ball against grown men, and can shoot the NBA 3...

fastdan
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Agreed Lamb is a better

Agreed Lamb is a better prospect that Oladipo. And he fits into this team much better because of his ability to score without the ball in his hands. Swapping straight up isn't a good idea, but suggesting adding picks and players warrants your account being banned by Aran.

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as a thunder fan

i'm wondering if tony mitchell is a possibility at the 12th pick. he reminds me alot of jeff green, with less ball handling ability but better rebounding. if they think he can guard threes like green can that means they can give durant the easier cover in any situation. on offense he can shoot and run the floor without it being smallball at 6'9" 236. am i totally combine high and overrating the man?

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No

They already have one of these 'athletes' on their roster, that are ok at everything on the court, but great at nothing, his name is Perry Jones, and he has a higher upside than Mitchell... That would be a waste of a lottery pick

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I don't think you're way out

I don't think you're way out of line with that thinking. It's time to start thinking about limiting kd's wear and tear, and easing his defensive burden would go a long way to extending his career and his peak. Not sure if Mitchell is that guy, but I'd bet he could be for 20-25 mpg anyway. His role would be crystal clear.

fastdan
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So many posts have come up

So many posts have come up about OKC recently, which is understandable due to them being knocked out in 5 games in the ECF semis, but let's get a few facts straight.

They lost because of Westbrook being out. Everyone has been talking about the lack of offensive options but lets look at the numbers during the regular season:

112.4 points per 100 possessions - 1st in the league
105.7 per game - 3rd in the league (.4 off Denver for first)
48.1% FG - 2nd in the league
37.7% on 3 points - 3rd in the league
26.8 trips to the line per game (2nd in the league) and first in the league a FT % at 82.8 (only team over 80%)

With a healthy team, does it really look like they need to blow up the roster to bring in more offense?

Yes, at this point it looks like moving Harden wasn't the smartest thing, because their offense wouldn't have slowed down so much with Westbrook out, as they would have had another guy who can run the offense, but in reality their offense has actually IMPROVED since last year. Higher points per possessions, more points per game, higher FG%, Higher 3 pt %, more trips to the line, and even less turnovers. Look it up. It sounds crazy that losing a guy who can avg 26 a game, and very efficiently mind you, can make your team better, but those are the numbers. And don't forget about higher winning percentage too.

I love Harden, I think he's the best SG in the league right now, and I was devastated when OKC dealt him. But in a situation where I need a 3rd option, I don't see much difference between him or Martin, because of Martin's ability to move without the ball. And on top of that OKC grabbed Lamb, the 12th and 32nd pick this year and future first from Dallas as well. Improve your team AND get 4 young, cheap players spread out over 3-4 years? Fantastic deal

Losing the Memphis shouldn't have been much of a surprise, they are a great team, but losing your second best player is really going to mess with your team's game plan, especially when it happens in the playoffs, and roles are being changed on the fly. Can you imagine the Lakers winning those two rings without Gasol? Miami winning without Wade last year? How about Chicago without Pippen?

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I'm pretty sure it was the

I'm pretty sure it was the WCF semis, not the ECF semis...

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Finally, this makes sense.

Finally, this makes sense. OKC was great this year. They don't need to change their offense to run through a low post scorer. Besides which you aren't going to get a good one without giving up something in return.

They just need a decent defensive center who can grab rebounds. Even blocking shots isn't really necessary since they have Ibaka. Perkins is a nice fit in theory, but he is below average now.

I don't see how anyone can still defend the Harden trade. Even with Westbrook hurt, Harden on OKC gets them into the WCF. The money from just one more round of playoff games (sold out games at playoff level ticket prices, but basically no additional player salary costs, makes playoff games a HUGE money maker for teams) would have more than paid for the difference between what they offered Harden and a true max contract.

But this season is done and KMart is an unrestricted free agent. If Houston wants him back, they can out bid OKC without breaking a sweat. With the weak state of SGs in the league, he would be a serious upgrade for a lot of teams. So he might cost $10 million per year, just a bit less than Harden's $15 million per season and he isn't nearly player Harden is.

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Even with Westbrook they would've lost to Memphis

There is no way they can afford to stand by and watch everyone else in the League get better over the next few years...They have to make a trade this summer

Gortat is not going to be available to the Thunder, why would Phoenix take back Perkins and Jones or Lamb when they can draft a Sg or Sf this year without losing Gortat to a Western Conference opponent???

If the Thunder want a Center with offensive skill they better look East...Hawes in Philadelphia makes some sense IMO, he can start next to Ibaka and allow the Thunder to Amnesty Perkins and sign a Defender like Dalembert...Perry Jones plays the same position as Durant and Ibaka so why not trade him to Philadelphia for a Center...The Sixers might just resign Bynum and draft a project big like Adams to develop as a backup plan...Jones and Bynum might be a good duo down low if they can stay healthy

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standing by

How exactly are the Thunder 'standing by and watching the rest of the league get better'?

Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka are all years away from their prime...

They have emerging talent in the likes of Reggie Jackson and others waiting in the wings such as Jeremy Lamb and Perry Jones III...

They have 3 draft picks in the first 32 this year... all of their own future firsts, and a protected Dallas first rounder...

They are going to continue to get better through the draft, accumulating young talent, using the Spurs model of the last last 15 odd years...

Why would they change what is working, and begin to trade away their future for aging rotation players, just as the Cavs did with LeBron, using all of their assets to accquire replacement level players is not the way to remain a long term contender in a small market, what they are doing is working great, and they need to continue it...

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Gortat is not going to be

Gortat is not going to be available to the Thunder, why would Phoenix take back Perkins and Jones or Lamb when they can draft a Sg or Sf this year without losing Gortat to a Western Conference opponent???
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I don't honestly understand the logic behind this question. Phoenix is one of the least talented teams in the league, they are nowhere near the win now mentality of the Thunder, so it's not exactly an immediate concern that they'd be trading within the conference. Gortat is going to be a free agent at the end of next season, they are not going to be a contender by next season and they could lose their best trade chip for nothing. Or they could resign him, if that's the case when they are ready to contend 4 or 5 years from now (in the best case scenario) Gortat will be 33 or 34 and probably not be much help. Its not like they're going to trade Gortat to the Thunder, then 4 years down the road when they make the playoffs, a 33 year old Gortat will dominate them and knock them out.

Why take Perkins when his value is so low around the league? So that they can pick up a young piece like Lamb on a rookie contract. Why take Lamb when they can draft a SG this year? Well if they get Lamb they can draft the BPA at another position instead maybe somebody like Noel, Porter or Bennett depending on where they end up. They need help practically everywhere.

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Saying Memphis still would

Saying Memphis still would have won that series is pure speculation. No proof. OKC has beaten Memphis in the playoffs before, they could have done it again.

I feel like your proposed trades have less to do with OKC, and more to do with that fact that you're a Philly fan who likes PJ3 and not Hawes. They can save themselves some money and just take Olynik.

They'd have to pay the majority of Perkins contract if they amnesty him, he still contributes and brings a lot of intangibles to the team, and amnestying him wouldn't put them under the cap, so there isn't really any reason to cut him.

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How would OKC have defended ZBO and Gasol any better???

Perkins and Ibaka were eaten alive inside, sure Westbrook could have helped by drawing some fouls but that's speculation too...

I am a Philly fan and I like Hawes and PJIII but I feel Hawes would help OKC and Jones would help Philly...Bynum will more than likely be back at C next year, and having a tall/athletic F with some range next to him would be ideal...Ibaka and Perkins could use an offensive bigman off the bench and Hawes only has 1 year and 6 million in cash left over...Perry needs way more time on the floor and OKC isn't in the position to play him...Makes alot of sense if you look past the Gortat/Pekovic/Big Al pipe dreams...Get a realistic target to play C...

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They didn't lose because they

They didn't lose because they were torched on defense; OKC held them to an average of 94.25 ppg in Memphis wins. They lost because their offense wasn't working without Westbrook.

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I don't think the Gortat

I don't think the Gortat scenario is a pipe dream...Phoenix needs to add talent. You offer Perk the 12th overall pick and their early second rounder.

Perk gives them a veteran Center to fill in till they get a long term solution and he isn't making any more than Gortat (though 1 extra year). Phoenix should be looking to a youth movement...two extra draft picks and a down grade of veteran talent will increase the young talent this year and should give them a better draft position next year.

Holding onto Gortat will be a bad long term strategy as he will keep them from being terrible and getting a top pick, but won't make them good. They will likely have a hard time holding onto him when his deal expires in a couple years and with or without him they will be a non-playoff team over the next couple seasons.

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Why would the Suns want to

Why would the Suns want to pay Perkins 18 million to be a mediocre center? Gortat is a legit starting center. They could trade him straight up for a high draft choice if they wanted to, certainly higher than the 12th pick in the draft. And they wouldn't have to take back a terrible contract.

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Ha GREENE by no means would I

Ha GREENE by no means would I suggest trading Lamb, Jones, and multiple picks for Oladipo the message was lost in translation. I was simply stating they have alot of pieces to get a deal done and although Lamb is a great offensive prospect he is nowhere near on par with Oladipo defensively and his playing time reflects his defensive intangibles. If your not good enough defensively and have a questionable shot selection you are not getting on the floor in the NBA and that's currently where Lamb stands. Oladipo is a much better fit in a OKC although I do believe Lamb can have a breakout year similar to Tobias Harris if traded to the right team.

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The Thunder already have Sefo

The Thunder already have Sefo so why would they want Oladipo. Also if they would not resign James Harden for a max deal how would they afford Al Jefferson.

At the moment all Sam Presti will be worrying about is that the 12th pick doesn't end up in the top 3 in the draft lottery and go back to Toronto then he can start looking at what deals are there. Personally I'd guess he may look to consolidate the two first rounders and 31st pick into a one or two first rounders.

hbomb3300
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Actually...

I hope Toronto's pick goes into the top 3 so the Thunder gets their pick next year in a MUCH deeper and talented draft.

bigmandinky
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Yeah, but they wont be a

Yeah, but they wont be a lottery team again next year, so the pick would stay with Toronto anyways.

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