When Durant has been out this season, Jeff Green has thrived at the small forward spot - last night he got 37, 5, and 4. Harden has also thrived as a starter as well, scoring about 18-20 in KD's absences. Westbrook is just dominant when he's the go to guy.
OKC seems like they have a rotation problem. Green is much better at the 3, but he can't play there because Durant can't play the 2. People have talked about Durant at the 4, but a frontcourt of Durant and Krstic wouldn't be that great. Ibaka is not a center - he plays much better at the 4.
Durant and Green both need to play the 3. Ibaka needs to play the 4, but is stuck playing the 5 because Krstic is the only "legit" center on the team.
All that being said, I don't know what the Thunder should do this offseason when Green is an RFA. He's great, but he should play KD's position. He can't be a sixth man because he would be backing up Durant for a good 8 min a game.
I love Green. LOVE him. He's capable of putting up big numbers, and he makes hustle play after hustle play. He fits from a chemistry standpoint, but not a logistics standpoint. Should they try to trade him before the deadline for a real center? Who could they get? Would you want him on your team?
They should trade Green for maybe Gortat + a pick
I haven't liked KD at all this season to be true, he's just forcing hard midrange shots and missing them. Westbrook has played like the best player on the team. If I could I would've traded Durant for a star centre, like Howard, but I know that's just impossible bullsheet so I probably shouldn't have said that
@Anton 123^^ I love that trade idea of Jeff Green for Gortat...
Trade Green for a Center. But not Gortat. Green is too good for that. But maybe Mehmet Okur or Robin Lopez, Jason Thompson. If the Raptors draft Enes Kanter, then they could trade Green to the Raptors for Kanter. There are plenty of options for him to go, but he definitely needs to be traded. Unless the thunder want to end up in a financial hole because the allowed Green's contract to run out before trading him. I know he would be loved in Utah, only problem is it would force AK to the bench where he does not play too well. He would also succeed in Pheonix as a replacement for Grant Hill since he will soon retire. Only Lopez is their starting center, and really adds a lot of defense to an otherwise weak defensive team. Sac-town would probably be perfect for him, since they could desperately use a 3 that is better than Greene or Casspi. I also think Green and Tyreke would be great together.
I also think the Thunder need to start Harden at the 2 guard. He plays great when he starts. Sefolosha plays great D. but maybe the Thunder could do a lineup like the Pacers do: Only start Thabo when they play against tough 2 guards, like Ray Allen, Kobe, and Dwade, then the other 74 games they could start Harden at the 2.
Mehmet Okur is basically a bigger Kristic, he's injury prone and doesn't solve any problems except maybe 3pt shooting, he isn't young too (31 years old). How is Robin Lopez better than Gortat? He is younger but right now I'd say Gortat is better + the Suns won't trade away their only centre. Jason Thompson is no centre. Gortat is young (26 years old) and is a good centre, he's just playing behind D-12, no way he's worse than Robin Lopez.
The Thunder should trade him now, in the off-season they might be unable to resign him + Kanter is no sure thing.
Harden is really inconsistent and Thabo doesn't just guard 2-guards, he usually guards the best players (if they are 2-s or 3-s) and sometimes even 4-s.
The Thunder don't need Gortat, they need a center that can score down low. That's what they were missing against the Lakers and will need (even if it's not a star) if they're going to win a title I think. Nene (ETO), Marc Gasol are free agents at the end of the year, otherwise I don't know of any team that would be willing to part with a low-post scorer in a trade for Green because they're so rare these days.
I love Green too, but you're right it just doesn't fit, seems like so many people are playing out of position. I think trading Green for a young defensive minded center could help everything else fall into place.
They need a defensive big more than a scoring big. Kristic can score, he even has some occaional post-moves, but he's soft as hell on D and can't rebound. What they need is a rebounding and defensive ventre - Gortat fits that well, he's young too, so IMO he can still develop into a good starter. He's played behind D-12 all his life, we really haven't seen him all that much
I hear you Anton, I just don't think Gortat is the answer though. Oden would be nice but too injury prone and not worth the risk, I think someone like Robin Lopez could thrive in the Thunder system, but as is he's not worth Jeff Green. Noah could be a good fit and closer to an equal trade than Lopez, especially if some picks & cash is thrown in. Just not sure Chicago would give him up especially since they have Deng at the 3 already.
The Thunder got Cole Aldrich to be a post presence but he's hardly seen any playing time this season so far, the key for them is to play Durant in his best position which is obviously SF so Green who may be better at SF is forced to PF. I like Sefo as starting SG but if Ibaka was ever moved over to be starting PF then it would be logical to start Harden at SG to give more offence.
Has Green been considered as a super 6th man perhaps allowing Ibaka to start and then Sefo comes from the bench with Harden starting at SG but the C position would need to be solved before that could happen.
The Thunder have under $40 million on the cap so could probably add a near max FA and still have room to resign Green easily as he will be a restricted FA. Sam Petri has already secured Nick Collinson long term with a clever deal to free up future cap space and the likes of Nene, Marc Gasol even Samuel Dalambert could be C options for next season if they look at the FA market. They have a couple of nice expiring deals and a fair bit of young trading pieces outside the core plus all their future draft picks to play with.
If they did trade Green then it would have to be for a complimentary level C or a very high draft pick but I would be loathe to move him unless it was a very good deal for the Thunder.
They've got Mullins and Aldrich on the shelf and the rights to Tabor Pliess, that is 3 young players who can play center and all 3 are not getting minutes for the team. With all that youth at the C position and a guy like Ibaka who can fill in at the 5 ( for the time being ) I don't know why they don't let Kristic go and have Ibaka split time at the 4 and 5 with some of the younger guys. If you're gonna keep that kind of depth on the shelf you may as well try to develop it.
Why trade green?...This is no different then most teams that lose a player for a game or two or more, other players step up. Green is doing just fine as a power forward. if its not broke dont fix it. Its like the guy who plays 2k whatever basketball and makes a bunch of trades when they pick the lakers or boston because it looks so good on paper to have this other guy or that other guy. The thunder need to do nothing but let there players grow as a team like they have been doing.
Do you think they can compete for a championship with Jeff Green at PF? Just a question to think about for the long run. The Thunder are not the Lakers and Celtics, mainly because of their lack of size at the 4/5. At least that is my opinion. I say, they may not be broke as far as being a decent play-off team, but as far as competing for what you ultimately want to compete for, I think the Jeff Green situation will need to be dealt with. He is a good player, but he is not a good PF. The Thunder still only have one big man at this point who actually provides much at the 4/5 in Ibaka, and they could really use some more down the line. That is why I do not know if Jeff Green would be the best thing for the Thunder's future.
Aldrich can't prove to be an above average player in the D-League as for now, I'm pretty sure he isn't worthy for getting real minutes for a playoff team yet. I believe he can figure it all out in a month or two and contibute in time for the play offs.
I don't see what the deal with Mullens is, the Thunder always go on about how they have confidence in him but all he does is warm their bench, I mean they could at least send him to the D-League. He has played like a total of 5 minutes this season.
I just can't see a candidate better than Gortat, Dalembert is old, maybe Brendan Haywood? With Chandler taking over all the time at C he's not getting any minutes, but the Mavs have Butler and Marion that can play the SF, they really don't seem to need Green and Haywood isn't young, has a bad contract and is not much better than Gortat or Lopez anyway. If they could get a guy like Tyson Chandler for Green it would be great, but the Mavs are ecstatic with the guy.
yes i do think they can. you are looking at the thuder now. im thinking about the thunder in a couple of years. westbrook and durant are only 21 or 22. Three years from there prime. People used to say " you really think jordan with pippen can win a title" people who aren't patient dont think so but the patient ones knows that it takes years to build a title team unless you make a Boston type trade. You take baby steps and get there gradually. they went from one of the worst teams to a playoff team with this unit in 2 years so if you making great progress like that why would you trade a big piece like that right now?..That makes no sense unless you're impatient
the best option is sending him to a team that needs a SF (clippers) and getting Chris Kaman in return
With the way they have progressed you dont think about trading him untill you start to go backwards. if they get to the secon d round this year then the third round next year you dont trade him.You dont trade Green,durant,westbrook. You trade other players around them or draft picks.
You do trade him if you can get someone better though. that goes for any player. And young. not sure about kaman he's like 29 and by the time westbrook and durant get into there prime years kaman will be on the decline. you want someone who will be in there prime with westbrook and durant
Granted, the Bulls never had Russell Westbrook at point and he makes a formidable duo with Kevin Durant, but look at the Bulls. Teams win chips on defense and rebounding Quincey, and with Green in at 4 they are not winning that battle. I am looking at them right now, and saying that in 2-3 years, Jeff Green playing 4 will be holding them back. He is not going to grow into the position. They could make some significant moves in 2-3 years that give them some bigs, but I think Jeff Green might not be the best thing for those plans. I do agree that you do not trade him for a veteran Center who could be injury prone, but some role guy might not be the worst thing in the world. I think they have a great back court, Westbrook leading the way with Maynor as a back-up, Sefolosha playing great defense and hopefully Harden being that instant offense off the bench. But, beyond Durant and Ibaka, their front court is paper thin. I just think having someone playing out of position at the 4 spot could lead to a lot of problems down the road, which is why I have always been for trading Jeff Green. Only time will tell, but I think you can at least agree that Jeff Green is not Pippen in this scenario. He also is not Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman, so where does that leave him?
you dont trade him for a role guy. you are under estimating his importance if you do that. you lose 20ppg by trading him for some role guy. And the bulls were just one example orhter teams build to title contendars. Right now the thunder are 13th in the leauge in the nba so is that really a big problem?..Utah is ranked lower them them in that department so should they trade millsap?..westbrook makes up for Greens rebounding numbers and im willing to bet he another Pf rebounding would suffer as well since westbrook and Durant are one of the best rebounders for there position
"They've got Mullins and Aldrich on the shelf and the rights to Tabor Pliess, that is 3 young players who can play center and all 3 are not getting minutes for the team. With all that youth at the C position and a guy like Ibaka who can fill in at the 5 ( for the time being ) I don't know why they don't let Kristic go and have Ibaka split time at the 4 and 5 with some of the younger guys. If you're gonna keep that kind of depth on the shelf you may as well try to develop it."
Coaches try to win the next game. Krstic isn't great, but he won't do things to lose games for them.
My bad they are actually 12th. Ahead of Boston,Utah,Denver,Atlanta,Miami. You know who is 2nd, 4th, 5th. Toranto,bobcats,twolvs. Rebounding isnt really a problem for them because they do it by team rebounding, they dont need one player getting 10 rebounds a game because they do it as a team. you dont have to do things the way other teams do it in order to win. you dont need that one star you can do it as a team like detroit. You dont need that one rebounder you can do it was a team like boston
The Thunder's real problem was the day the League awards their coach coach of the year. It was all downhill from there. Look at the past NBA coaches:
All of them were released less than two years after. I hope Scotty doesn't go through the same predicament.
But I said defense and rebounding Quincey. Yes, they are a mediocre rebounding team, but they are a bad defensive team too. Quincey, look at teams that have won championships that have not either had great big guys or great defense and rebounding (together). Done looking? There are none. So, unless the Thunder buck the trend, I do not see it happening unless they get some bigs. They have some great defenders, in particular Westbrook and Sefolosha, and Ibaka could bloom into one, but Durant has yet to impress as far as that side of the ball and to me Green never will as a PF. Also, as far as the 20 ppg thing goes, realize he is right now averaging 19.2, so you are close. But also realize that before he scored 37 without Durant in the line-up last night, he was averaging 17.5. I would be incredibly surprised if he even comes close to these totals for the whole season. Not to mention, he is playing for a contract extension, and do you think he will be getting much better in the coming years? All food for thought.
Yes, they are in the middle of the pack rebounding, doing better than a few teams fighting for the chip, but do you not think the Thunder still need to build on the team to compete for the championship? Are Westbrook, Durant and Green, even with a slightly better supporting cast possibly in a few years, good enough to beat the Heat or Lakers, who will probably fill in some of their voids as well? These are all legit questions to think about, and I am going with no. I will admit, I am not a huge fan of the Thunder, I think they have built a great young team, but still am not exactly on the band wagon. But, like with any team, when I see potential issues, I point them out, and I think the Green situation could very well keep them from becoming the team of the future that so many have annointed them. Right now also, the rebounding differential is minute, a lot of teams close together from 10-18. We will see how it plays out, but for a team with as many supposedly strong defenders as OKC, their defense sucks. One thing I know is that when it comes to winning titles, having big players that can rebound and play defense has been a must throughout NBA history. I can not recall a team that won a championship with someone like Jeff Green playing PF. Maybe he will break the mold, but history is not on his side.
Phil Jackson seemed fine
Stanford and mikey both make great points. That's why this is such a tough issue.
Green is too good to trade away for Robin Lopez, Gortat not sure how he'll do as a starter.
Also with 1 of those guys at Center playin next Serge lbaka the offense would suffer and at SG the teams already weak on offense. Can't just have 2 scorers it'll depend who they go after in free agency.
Here's another crazy idea that will never happen, but it kinda makes some sense. I'm adding the trade of Jeff Green to the trade of Arenas and Carter, and this is what I thought of:
Orlando Trades: Gortat and Carter; Receive: Arenas, Blatche, and Krstic; Lineup:Nelson/Arenas/Lewis/Bass/Howard
Oklahoma City Trades: Krstic, Green, Peterson, White, and Draft Pick; Receive: Gortat and Carter; Lineup:Westbrook/Carter/Durant/Ibaka/Gortat
Washington Trades: Arenas and Blatche; Receive: Green, Peterson, White, and Draft Pick; Lineup:Wall/Hinrich/Green/White/McGee
So, tell me what you think about this?
Yeah trading him for Lopez is a bad idea. People look at what hes not strong at and think trade him but they forget about what he is good at. He's a 19-20ppg scorer that causes mismatches. You dont just replace what he does with a average guy. Who ever you trade for him has to be capable of causing mismatches while being able to give you close to 20ppg.
The trade for carter and Godart makes sense a couple of years ago. The thunder aren't gonna win the title now. The people that want the trades are thinking about today and forgetting about the future. Why trade green when you have the money to get or develop a center while you have a couple of years until you two key players enter there prime. I love what the Thunder GM is doing. He's not rushing it he is letting his players get older and develop together and not making trades that will cause them to take a step back while the new player gets used to the way the team plays. As far as Greens defense do power forwards that play against the thunder go above there usual averages or do they score/rebound at the same rate that they usual do during the rest of the season?
And can the guy you trade for pick up his level as much as green does when Durant or westbrook gets hurt? I like Gortate but he just isnt proven enough to me.
@Anton123, Gortat is basically a rich man's Cole Aldrich. Imagine Cole Aldrich starting right now, and you basically have Gortat. What, how is that gonna solve their problems? Like Stanford hoops said, he isn't proven enough. When you are trading Green, you need to get a center that is proven because Green is proven.
Yeah I admit Okur is not that great but Thompson? He can play both PF and C very well. You obviously don't remember when the Kings traded Kevin Martin for Carl Landry before they drafted Cousins or traded for Dalembert. Thompson started at Center and played great.
And Robin Lopez is definitely better than Gortat. He can block just like him and is a better scorer. He starts all the games for the Suns. While Gortat would never start a game on any team except for the Cavs or Raptors (ie really bad teams) The Suns would make this trade because they do have another Center, Channing Frye, yeah I admit he's not a great Center and Lopez is definitely better, but I think its time the Suns start rebuilding especially when both Nash and Hill only getting older and those 2 being basically the core of their team. Hill is replaced by Green, and Nash can either be traded or just traded Hill for the PG to replace him. Yeah you traded away a center for Green and you have to start Frye, but thats what the draft is for. The Suns can always draft Kanter, or Fab Melo, or any other Center in the lottery.
if you trading for thompson,gortat you need to add another player because by there selfs isnt gonna get it done. And Thompson has regressed
Durant and Westbrook are more scorers than passers so I think they could really use a good passing big man, I think Greg Monroe would fit perfect for them and really help their offense when Durant isn't shooting good. Something like
Jeff Green for Prince,Monroe, and a 1st round pick? Maybe something like this with Detroit throwing in a pick?
Naw cuz monroe isnt proven. He would be a good addition long term though. in all these trades OKC takes a step back. If trading green is a option (which it isnt for OKC right now thank GOD) then its a option at the end of next year if they are getting killed or out rebounded by power forwards and not getting past the first round
Picks can be added
ATL sends J Smith, Evans, and a trade exception (gets White, Peterson, Kaman, and Aminu)
LAC sends Kaman, Aminu (gets Green, Collison)
OKC sends Green, White, Collison, and Peterson (gets Evans, Smith, and exception)
Bibby - Crawford - Johnson - Horford - Kaman
Teague - Peterson/Crawford - Aminu / Williams - Williams/ White - ZaZa
Bledsoe - Gordon - Green - Griffin - Jordan
Davis - Foye - Gomes - Smith/ Collison - Collins/Collison
Westbrook - Sefo - KD - Smith - Krstic
Maynor - Harden /Cook - Harden/Evans - Ibaka - Mullins/Aldrich
Let the negatives begin
I don't see how they can keep him, OKC's 1,2, and 3 are set and Green is not a PF on a championship team which is there goal. Your not going to pay a guy that much money to come off the bench. If they don't trade him while they can get a quality big man there crazy IMO.
Now if its for josh smith then yeah i take that. Smith fits in OKC system and he can score around the same amount as Green. Problem if ATL wwont make that trade
I dont agree because you see how good OKC is with Durant and Westbrook being 21,22 years old. so how good do you think they would be right now if they were 25,26,27? i believe they would be a title team. lakers would be out of it as well as boston and i can see them beating the magic plus geen is still gonna get better.
what quality big man can they get to make them better?..a big man that can add lets say 3 more rebounds to his 6reb per game average and 20ppg to replace his scoring while also causing mismatchs on offense?? Please dont tell me a average big man will do because it wont. I think any team would want this big man that would put up those numbers but is he out there to be had?..we are talking about a roy hibbert,Brook lopez, Andrew bynum type
you can't win championships with tweeners at the 4, when was the last time it happened?
Theres no set position/team you have to have in order to win a title. you can win it with one star two stars no stars dominate center, average center. thhats the great thing about basketball you dont have to have a blue print of another team in order to win
that's where I disagree with you, i think you do need certain set pieces like a shot blocking big and a back to the basket big. Still didn't answer my question, but when has a tweener PF started on a championship team?
why exactly is he considered a tweener?..he's 6'9 which is the average height for a pf. He doesnt average alot of rebounds but neither does brook lopez. Is brook a tweener?..Ben wallace was considered a tweener right since he is 6'6-6'7... so is tweener based on someones height?
Alonzo morning is 6'10 same with the dream and they both are undersized for a center are they considered tweeners?
And a gortate or tyson chandler or any average center i gonna replace what green brings
Ben Wallace is 6'9
No that is what he is listed as He is 6'7 2 inchs shorter then my brother who is 6,9 used to also work out with been and alonze when ben was with the wizards
it's a combination of height,playing style, and what you do on defense IMO, Green's playing style is more like a SF which I don't think is condusive to a championship. Most championship teams PF's are an inside presence. Green can not guard the elite PF's in this league.
Ben Wallace wasn't a tweener just cause he could defend his position.
Tweener is not about height its about how they play. A 6'9 guy who is soft inside and would rather take jumpers but doesn't have the speed to gaurd SF's is a tweener. A guy can be 6'7 can be a power forward if he plays down low with legit post moves and can defend the 4 spot it just means he's undersized not a tweener.
"why exactly is he considered a tweener?..he's 6'9 which is the average height for a pf."
So Jeff Green is a pure PF now? (Exactly robertfreeman, strong points)
Another thing about so called tweenrs and saying you cant win a title without this or that. Nothing is absolute int he NBA. I'm pretty sure before mugsy played in the NBA someone said " no one 5'3 could ever play in the NBA. Before the pistons won people said no team without a surefire hall of famer or top 5-10 player could ever win a title. There was the ": you can never win a title without a very good center or power forward" There are no absolutes So just because no team or player has ever won something doesn't mean it can not happen. there are plenty of teams with good power forwards and centers who are farther behind from getting a title then the Thunder.
What would be a better idea would be to keep green and Trade players in order to get a back to the basket banging center or do what the GM is doing and waiting for Cole Aldrich to get better. Fans can say trade green till they are blue in the face but I'm glad the Thunder is ignoring some fans or people and deciding to stay pat
The Thunder has done a excellent job so far moving in the right direction with the decisions they have made and i think they will continue to make sound decisions that will better there team. Right now they are looking very good with the team they have and no realistic trade is gonna make them any better at this point
OKC has no inside scoring presence, Green plays outside and Krisic isn't the best. Their one-dimensional on offense and that's why they fail, if Durant is in a shooting slump they can't just throw it inside for a basket. Green is their best trading chip so why not trade him and get a legit PF, I think a great PF would really help their team.
Whjat is a pure PF?..if someone is tall for a point guard is he a combo or tweener between a SG. The nba is ever evolving and the same guy thats a Sf now would be considered a PF in the past. Lebron would be considered a PF. If you do very well ( which green has done) at the position youre at then youre PF. would you rather have a PF who is the "ideal back to the basket" PF who plays liek nick collins or Jeff Green the "tweener"
Because i keep seeing trade green for this average big man or that average big man just because they happen to be ideal "big men"
I wouldn't say they had no inside presence I love Serge he can be a post presence for them and has shown it this year but he is young and raw.
Every team would like a great PF
i agree if we are talking about trading him for a gasol,zbo, type big man who can match his points while also getting 9-11 reb but not for some averge to below average big man like gortat or thompson
Look at the Magic, they have the best center in the league and can't win a championship because they play 4 guards around him. That's the same as OKC with Green, you need 2 inside presences to win a championship. I like Green, but he's a SF, look at him last night, like 37 points playing SF. I like him but with Durant there's no room and he's there best trading chip.