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So why did Sloan retire?

The UnderKanter
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So why did Sloan retire?

Many of you by now know that I am very much against the idea that Dwill was involved in Jerry Sloan's recent decision to retire. So far my view on this has basically been ripped to shreds. I want to know however if this "ripping" is coming from just a few adament individuals or if this is the general feeling overall of the situation. I am still very much against the idea, but I want to see where everyone's thoughts lie now that this subject has had time to settle. (Meaning everyone has had time to thoroughly analyze the situation and form their own opinion on the matter, not that a decision has been made as to whether or not Williams forced Sloan into retirement)

In the thread entitled "Karl Malone Rips Deron Williams" I commented on my thoughts as to why Sloan retired. I said that the Jazz needed a change. One person even said that the "Jazz have not won a ring" and so maybe Sloan wanted this to happen but felt that he himslef could not bring this to the Jazz. (for more info, read my comment in that thread)

I want to find out where the consensus lies. Is it A) Dwill's fault, B) No one's fault, but a change needed to happen, and Sloan felt that the only way this change would happen is if he retired, or C) if no one really knows why he did so, and no decision has been reached.


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ILLUMINATI

ILLUMINATI

llperez
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i think he was tired of dwill

i think he was tired of dwill and getting into it with him and felt maybe he wasnt going anywhere with this team from here on out anyways so he called it a day.

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He didn't want to retire. I

He didn't want to retire. I feel Williams went and said "Me or Sloan" and muscled him out

To me, it sickens me because of the biggest BS excuse: In 2 years, Sloan went to the video room 2 times. So what...if your a player who wants to get better, the tape is always there. Do your thing. I feel Utah players are punks and didn't want to play in that system and went to the alpha dog, Deron Williams, to ask him to speed up the tempo (what they did last night) and Williams went, Sloan said "No, were gonna stay in my system" and Williams had it.

Can't be more simple then that.

The UnderKanter
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Jerry Sloan has had

@liperez

Jerry Sloan has had confrontations with many star players not just Dwill. He had confrontations with Karl Malone and even John Stockton (not many but still had a few, and they were all minor the point is they happened.) And he didn't quit after those confrontations. So I don't think he was "tired of Dwill getting into it with him." If that were the case he would of quit long before Dwill was even drafted by the Jazz. He would have quit after the many confrontations that he had with Karl Malone. Both Sloan and Williams are fiery competitors.

It was just unfortunate that his decision came right after a heated discussion with Dwill at the halftime of the Bulls vs. Jazz game. I think he was thinking about retirement long before this fight with Dwill it just so happened that he finally made up his mind the day after the Bulls game.

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@knicksboy1 Sloan has been

@knicksboy1

Sloan has been around for a long time. He wouldn't let one star player determine his decision. If that were the case then he would have quit with Malone after the many confrontations that they had. He's bigger than that. Besides if dwill did come up to him and muscle him out like you said then Sloan would have told him to buzz off. He wouldn't say that exactly but he would give Dwill the impression that that is what he needed to do. Look at the Coach's career. Do you really think that a coach that has been involved with the Jazz for 23 years would quit just because he was muscled out by a star player? Don't think so, Sloan's bigger than that.

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depends becasue some guys

depends becasue some guys have confrontations and still see eye to eye and have respect afterwards. Malone said no matter what was said between him and sloan, in the end they always did things sloans way and you can tell there was that mutual respect. Maybe the arguments with dwill were no harsher but overall sloan just didnt feel they were on the same page and that things were not gonna change so he decided to call it a day.

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I honestly think your lacking

I honestly think your lacking common sense. Yes, Sloan and Malone were getting into issues, but they were making noise in the West, eventually getting title chances.

Besides if dwill did come up to him and muscle him out like you said then Sloan would have told him to buzz off.

Are you serious? Honestly, are you serious? Sloan wasn't winning a title anytime with this team. The Jazz weren't a piece away, they were pieces. When your not winning, you have a short fuse, espically as a older coach. Deron Williams is great, but he isn't a leader nor is he a "golden child" like you believe he is. I asked Jazz beat writers and people were saying Sloan and Williams were having blowups and Williams even challenged Sloan in front of writers and players.

Sloan got tired and left, but I believe Williams challenged the front office to leave. Let's just think about it then, why has there been MORE talk about Williams' leaving then? Because everyone know this story. If you watch the game last night, Williams wants to be Nash Jr. He wants to run and gun and that style isn't gonna win them anything and he will blame the talent (Excuse me, he will look for a chance to win a title) and leave.

Say what you want.

The UnderKanter
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"Why has there been MORE talk

"Why has there been MORE talk about Williams' leaving?" Because people like to point out the negative. That's how the media is. They always point out the negative because its more "interesting." Its sad but true. The media likes to point fingers, its easy and totally natural. It doesn't mean that its right but it is what people naturally do.

"I asked Jazz beat writes and people were saying Sloan and Williams were having blowups and Williams' even challenged Sloan in front of writers and players" Where are you getting this. I have payed very attention to Williams and his reactions because he is the sole leader of the Jazz. I know Williams and Sloan have had many blowups but that's because both are fiery competitors like I said. When you have two people who have fiery temper, then you get blow ups thats natural. That always happens. But Dwill has the utmost respect for Jerry Sloan because he has been coaching for so long. Don't believe listen to what he says. I even posted a comment in a related topic telling people not only what Dwill was saying about Coach Sloan but also the rest of the Jazz organization. Williams have even said that he has never gone to management and challenged Sloan or forced him into retirement like you believe.

But here's the key: "If Dwill went up to Sloan and told him that he needed to leave and muscle him out then Sloan would just tell him to buzz off." The reason why I said that wasn't because the Jazz are just a piece away from winning a championship that is far from the truth. I know the Jazz are a ways from contending with the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, and Heat. The reason why I said that is because Sloan has been with the Jazz for 23 years, and before that he was with the Bulls for 3 years. Before that he even played in the NBA with the Bulls and was a pretty good player. What I mean Sloan has been around NBA players basically his whole life and if he would really allow one star player to get on his nerves and tell him to leave (like you believe) then Sloan would have quit coaching long before he did. He would have done so with Malone and their many controversies.

Bottom line: Do you really think that Sloan, after all the players he has dealt with in his LONG and tenured coaching career and all the players he dealt with in his playing days, would just let one star player like Deron Williams get to him and cause him to retire? I don't think so. Sloan is bigger then that. Its gotta be something with the team in general. Not one player. I really think that a change needed to happen and Sloan saw this but he knew that he couldn't bring it about because him and the team were not on the same page, and so he decided to step down and let someone else try.

(Note to Liperez: I think your argument has relevance but not just to Dwill in particular but to the entire team in general.)

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That always happens. But

That always happens. But Dwill has the utmost respect for Jerry Sloan because he has been coaching for so long. Don't believe listen to what he says. I even posted a comment in a related topic telling people not only what Dwill was saying about Coach Sloan but also the rest of the Jazz organization. Williams have even said that he has never gone to management and challenged Sloan or forced him into retirement like you believe.

-Of course he's going to come out and say "I'm shocked he retired", he's not going to admit he muscled out his coach. Of course he's going to deny he did it. What person admits to doing a crime unless he has to?

Bottom line: Do you really think that Sloan, after all the players he has dealt with in his LONG and tenured coaching career and all the players he dealt with in his playing days, would just let one star player like Deron Williams get to him and cause him to retire? I don't think so. Sloan is bigger then that. Its gotta be something with the team in general. Not one player. I really think that a change needed to happen and Sloan saw this but he knew that he couldn't bring it about because him and the team were not on the same page, and so he decided to step down and let someone else try.

- Once again, you don't get it. Williams was the main reason he left, but the fact he wasn't gonna win a title soon and the fact he had dozens of players leave recently, it just added up. Williams battling him and putting himself over the team made Sloan decided it was best he leave.

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I

I think that Williams and Sloan had a falling out and Sloan wanted to punish Deron in some way. Management refused and that made Sloan believe that he no longer had control of his team. While loyal players like Ronnie Price would have jumped off the edge of the Earth for Sloan (and watching Ronnie Price over the years, I have no doubt of this), Williams is known to be much more bull-headed.

I don't think Williams wanted Sloan out, but I do believe that he is the primary reason Sloan left.

Karl Malone may not be the most moral person in the world, but he is undeniably honest and he summed everything up right on point. In case you missed it, I'll wrap up what he said...

  • Sloan and Johnson would NEVER quit or give up just because a team was struggling.
  • Sloan still had the fire and energy to coach.
  • Players aren't as tough as they need to be.
  • Management is hiding something.

Of course Sloan is far too classy to come right out and blame any player, but Malone knows something is up and despite his (at times, despicable) personal life, Jazz fans also owe something to him.

Meaning...

DERON WILLIAMS NEEDS TO GO!

butidonthavemoney
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Knicksboy

"I feel Utah players are punks and didn't want to play in that system"

I disagree with this. Many Utah players don't know anything except for Sloan's system. Kirilenko, Millsap, Price, etc... These players thrive in Sloan's system.

The only player who has trouble with Sloan's system is Al Jefferson. Williams also plays well in that system, and he was never trying to operate outside of it. The argument against Chicago stemmed from Williams calling a different play than the one Jerry Sloan did. Both plays were products of the system.

And most players who come to Utah via free agency, specifically come to play in that system.

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send him to Brooklyn for Harris, Favors and Picks...

If I had a star that wanted out I'd be all over the Jersey offer of Devin Harris, Derrick Favors and picks...

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Williams also plays well in

Williams also plays well in that system, and he was never trying to operate outside of it

Money, that's not true because people said in the past that Williams asked for more freedom in the offense and Sloan didn't want to give it to him. Sloan instead made tweaks to allow Williams to try different things.

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Scarecrow....Devin Harris is

Scarecrow....Devin Harris is not that good.

butidonthavemoney
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Maybe

Maybe in terms of isolations and calling his own plays (which he's been doing since his sophomore year).

Still, I don't remember hearing anything like that.

Either way, there certainly isn't any indication of any other Utah players (except Jefferson) having issues with Sloan's system.

butidonthavemoney
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Harris

Devin Harris is no Deron Williams, but as a Utah fan I would take that deal. Maybe we could get them to throw in Damion James as a bonus...

BKKnicksfan
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You're correct about the Iso

You're correct about the Iso and Calling the plays, but he wanted to shed from the system as well. Word was the offensive was becoming "predictable". It was a Yahoo article in fact that was talking about it.

I'm still in the belief Williams gave Utah the "It's me or him" talk.

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he's better than u give him credit for...

I would just take Harris and top 5 pick and call it a day...draft a Sf and keep it moving ..Harris and a top 5 pick is super good for a cry baby biotch...throw in Murphy and its steal...Maybe you give up Williams and Okur for Harris, Murphy and top 5 pick in 2011, draft a Sf like Barnes to rebuild with Harris, Hayward, Barnes, Millsap, Jefferson, Kirelenko, Murphy, Price and Miles...

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Devin Harris overrated.

Devin Harris overrated. Proved nothing. He was just fast, but he isn't a winning player. At all. Plus, that probably wouldn't be a top 5 pick if you add a superstar to the roster. New Jersey wouldn't be one of the 5 worst teams with Williams on the roster.

So you probably get Harris, Favors and the 12th pick for Williams.

There's better deals out there for Williams.

The Scare Crow ...
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nomoney how about this offer...

Holiday, Speights, Kapono, Nocioni and 1st round pick in 2011 for Deron Williams and Krylo Fesenko...Sixers starters would be Williams, Turner, Iguadola, Brand, Hawes...bench would be Lou Williams, Meeks, Thad Young, Brackins, Battie and Fesenko...maybe a big man in free agency...The Jazz get a young point guard, big man, veteran sf ,6 million in expiring contracts(Kapono) plus a 1st rounder...

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http://www.theprobasketballta

http://www.theprobasketballtalk.com/2011/02/daily-dribbles_11.html

My friends at the pro basketball talk did a article with a whole bunch of articles talking about DWill and Utah.

The Scare Crow ...
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the nets would have a top 5 pick this year no matter who they

Have on the roster this year...Williams doesn't single handedly make them a playoff team...that pick is guaranteed to be high this year...

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Never said it's a playoff

Never said it's a playoff team, but Williams is a star player, he can move them up 3-4 spots and go from the 6th spot (where they are now) to the 9, 10 spot.

Also- Houston, Portland, , Atlanta, Lakers and Clippers can offer better deals

butidonthavemoney
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Eh

"Holiday, Speights, Kapono, Nocioni and 1st round pick in 2011 for Deron Williams and Krylo Fesenko"

I don't think that the Jazz make a deal with the Sixers unless Iggy or Turner are involved.

Though the two franchises are friendly.

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Harris only really good

Harris only really good season was alongisde another guard who was a superstar, vince Carter. and i have a feeling the only way he'll get back to that 20pts 8asts range is if he is playing with another Superstar guard. But back onto the Utah situation, i don't think Sloan has had to deal with anybody of William's case. Malone had Stockton a massive veteran presence, who does Williams have? He thinks he is the Jazz. That's his problem, there's no veteran player of high enough status to tell him to fall back into his place, Sloan seemed although he wanted to punish William's for his actions, but management probably want to keep Williams as happy as possible so he doesn't leave. But it seems although the Jazz have to part ways with him, change the attitude and culture of the Jazz, time for a fresh start for them i think.

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@knicksboy

I don't think you can go out and say Harris isn't a winning player..... He plays for bad team in general in the Nets and they are flat out terrible. They only have one consistent offensive player besides Harris on their whole team in Lopez and have a decent marksman in Morrow so it's not like you can drop the verdict already and say he's not a winning player. If they get more talent and have a visibly better team and are still losing, I'll buy that statement ...... Also( and i might get negatives for this) adding ONLY Deron Williams to the Nets certaintly makes them better, but they will still be terrible and be in the lottery.

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Devin Harris been there for a

Devin Harris been there for a while and hasn't made any impact on that team to me. They suck as a franchise and he hasn't done anything to make me believe he's that good.

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This is only Harris' fourth

This is only Harris' fourth season there and the Nets have not done anything in terms of going out there and signing actual talent in all four of those seasons or something that resembles a supporting cast at all. Rebuilding is a process that takes a long time and Harris was the very first player they acquired when they decided it was time to rebuild and get rid of the Kidd, Jefferson, Carter core.... The Nets keep trying to land the big one either via the draft or free agency but have failed miserably........

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With Sloan gone your nuts if

With Sloan gone your nuts if you think the Jazz are trading Williams period. The only way that happens is if he makes it clear that he is leaving ala Carmelo Anthony.

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With Sloan gone your nuts if

With Sloan gone your nuts if you think the Jazz are trading Williams period. The only way that happens is if he makes it clear that he is leaving ala Carmelo Anthony.

You do know he leaving when his contract is up right? Give me 3 reasons why he would want to stay in Utah...

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I feel we have already had

I feel we have already had this talk before. I made a post about it giving 5 reasons why. So i guess it all depends on how well the team plays. We still have a chance to get home court advantage in the first round, and quite a bit of talent. Garenteed he will be here atleast this year and next.

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At this point, I think Utah

At this point, I think Utah really needs to consider blowing up that team. They are the Hawks of the West, they win alot of games, not really alot of talk in the postseason (even when you won, you won against a overmatched Golden St, a overrated Houston and Denver) so I think it's time to move him this offseason.

I say move Williams and Jefferson this offseason and look for a actual coach, don't get bait into hiring the assistant. I think with Okur a FA next offseason and AK47 a FA this offseason, the money will swing in the direction you want it to. I think Utah needs to find two deals that can get them back some pieces they can toy with and see which direction they can go.

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Its way to early to be

Its way to early to be talking about blowing up this team. They havent even been together half a year yet.

The UnderKanter
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This is not a trade thread about Deron Williams

No his contract is not up soon. He does not go on the books for another 2 YEARS. So even if he wanted to leave, he couldn't do so until the end of the 2011-2012 season not this season. If utah is going to trade DWill they will wait until the offseason when all this has died down and they can find out if he is really causing problems with the team, or if this is just overblown from the media. (Besides Utah is not a team that will trade their star player, they usually make little tweaks here and there, doing things one at a time. If Utah were to trade their star player or totally blow up the whole team, then they would do so because it is absolutely necessary for the teams success)

I created this thread to discuss the possible reasons why Coach Sloan retired not to discuss possible destinatios for Deron Williams. Lets get back to main topic at hand. Why did Coach Sloan retire. A) Forced to by Deron Williams (Don't think so, Sloan is better than that. B) He realized Utah needed a change and he was not the one to instill it, because he was not on the same page with his players. (More likely) C) We don't know yet, to much media information swirling around, no decision has been made.

Note to "No Money": If Sloan wanted Dwill to be punished but upper management wasn't allowing him to do so then he would punish Dwill by sitting him on the bench or by having a talk with him after a practice. Upper management has always given him (Jerry Sloan) full support and leeway to do what he needs to do to get Utah where they need to be. Again, Sloan is better then to let a player force him into retirement)

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i dont think sloan left

i dont think sloan left simply because dwill, he aint that soft. But i think you are kidding yourself if you dont think dwill had a significant impact on his decision. That does not mean the whole thing is due to dwill of course.

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I think dwilljazz8 doesn't

I think dwilljazz8 doesn't want to admit that Deron Williams played a role in Sloan's retirement.

I'm not going to say Deron did everything, but he was the straw that broke the camel's back.

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