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jwostrum
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shabazz muhammad

im watching some of the players at the combine, and this is really shocking that chad ford still thinks noel is the number 1 pick. I mean he is not even 210. now on to my topic, shabazz may fall out of the top 10, but he will easily be the best player in this draft and beyond a steal for whoever drafts him. this group of players considered for the top 10 is a joke. im not saying there are no good players, just not really anyone that stands out to me as nba ready. ben mclemore is basically 6-4 even though he will get the 6-5 nod, and he only has a 6-7 or 6-8 wingspan. also he weighed in at less than 190 pounds!!! adams was impressive at the combine, but he still needs a lot of development. trey burke might end up being number 1, but he is not a huge point guard, and does not have blazing speed to blow by people on offence and to defend point guards like paul and westbrook. this year has a lot of developing guys who are gonna get drafted way to high. you heard it here, shabazz will blow everyone in this class away in a few years. people will be questioning why he did not go number 1.


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I'd rather have someone

I'd rather have someone skinny than fat. Shabazz was overweight all season. L

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What's your case FOR Bazz,

What's your case FOR Bazz, all you did is make vauge observations about other guys projected in the top 10. Doesn't it concern you that Shabazz doesn't have great lateral quickness and has pretty average ball handling ability?

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If he can operate in a pick

If he can operate in a pick and roll setting I think his handle will be fine. I am really high on bazz as well, hes relentless I think that will suit him pretty well

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my case

my case is he actually showed up for all the drills, he is ultra competitive, his iso game is underrated, he is not going to take plays off. if you play him at sg, he has a great size advantage. people like noel and mclemore will get bullied in the nba unless they put on serios muscle. you really think noel can defend nba center or power forwards? how about ben defending sg? im not so sure about it. shabazz has the size and length to score and defend against nba sg, and don't give me this lateral quickness bull&$#%#&@!. he was out of shape at ucla and that makes a big diffenrence. come back in a few years mr. wolf and we will see what you have to say then.

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Did Bazz ever really show

Did Bazz ever really show pick-and-roll prowess at UCLA? I don't remember him doing tons of damage on the pick-and-roll, mostly being successful using screens off the ball. Shabazz has a knack for getting to the free throw line and is a good spot-up shooter. I just worry that all the transition lay-ups he gets are less likely to happen in the NBA, where teams run the floor better, and I think his off-the-dribble game is not going to translate to the NBA well. He doesn't appear to shoot well off the dribble, taking a lot of flat one handed floaters and not showing great finishing ability at the rim. And he still has 9% body fat, so I'm not sure all the excuses for his being overweight still hold water.

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Don't question his lateral

Don't question his lateral quickness? That is a huge detriment in his game and a guy who can't stay in shape isn't going to maximize his potential, he's not in great shape as I see him in the combine drills. So you can question players' size, but don't question Shabazzs' size because he was out of shape? You can put on muscle just as you can lose fat, my friend. At least a guy like McLemore has the speed and lateral quickness to begin with. Shabazz is competitive and I don't think he'll suck, but I strongly doubt he's going to be even a top 5 player out of this class.

jwostrum
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ok?

I know lateral quickness is important, but he was clearly out of shape all last year from injurys and not being able to work with the team and trainers properly. he did come into the combine in much better shape, and that WILL show his true lateral quickness, and not what you saw at ucla last year. don't always believe everything you see and hear mr wolf. if you watch him from high school when he was in optimum shape, he was a lot quicker, and was still the same weight as at the combine. I like ben, but he has to get stronger and prove he can compete throughout the Whole game and not disappear in big situations. also ben does not have a great wingspan. the thing that derailed shabazz draft stock was massive hype, combined with being out of shape and in my opinion a stupid 1 year age difference. and before you jump on the whole age difference thing, he dominated guys who were 2 and 3 years older than him when he was a freshman and sophomore in high school.

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I don't care about the age.

I don't care about the age. I'm not low on Shabazz because his stock is down, I have just never been too terribly impressed by him as more than a starting caliber player in the NBA. He has translatable skill, but I don't think he'll ever make an All-Star team. I look forward to seeing him participate in more drills thismorning, but yesterday he did compete hard, but he was middle of the pack in wind sprints and struggled a little offensively in dirlls. I'm fully aware drills aren't games and I don't weigh the combine as heavily as some, but he's still at 9% body fat and I just don't think his quickness is there.

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Anyway

Anyway, falling in the draft wouldnt be a bad thing for Shabazz, it did wonders for Barnes and Drummond to be honest.

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Shabazz Muhammad should

Shabazz Muhammad should starve himself and get back down to 210-215 lbs. He was much more athletic in high school mainly because he was much lighter. I think he could be a good #2 scoring option with development.

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I think he'll be a top 3

I think he'll be a top 3 player out of the class for sure. Literally every issue people have with him is exaggerated.

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You show Bazz too much love

You show Bazz too much love in your post. I'm starting to think you are Bazz or maybe his younger brother...smh.

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im starting to think bazz has

im starting to think bazz has always been overated. i mean i liked him on youtube clips then i saw the mcdonalds game and ever since then i wasnt impressed at all. he looks EXTREMELY slow...i mean does anyone actually think he will make an impact or even last in the nba? i wouldnt bet MY money on it mannn

hotrod_matthews
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Wake UP

Acutal ball players know that Shabaaz is the best amongs all of these guys. People talk about him not having lateral quickness, great handle or a super athlete lol it really shocks me how many people do not even have him ranked in the top 5 smh. Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Kobe none of those guys have a great handle, ultra athletes(maybe #8 kobe) or have great quickness. Wake up people Basketball is a mind game, Your defender doesnt know what you are going to do so you already have an advantage, he is physically stronger than most guys that will be guarding him. He is a scorer and has that killer mantality numbers never lie and his are better than most guys in this draft smh

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Every single one of those

Every single one of those guys you mentioned had great handles. You wanna dismiss the importance of athleticism and physical dimensions in the NBA, thats fine. Shabazz' skill level is lacking too. He couldn't create separation vs college players with the ball in his hands, showing very little advanced ball-handling ability or creativity for that matter.

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Smh

None of those guys have a GREAT handle. Maybe I define GREAT differently. The NBA game is more spread out so his iso game will show. Im not saying he is on the same level as any of those guys but it is clear that in this draft he is the top dog. He has the physical tools to do. He is a competitor he isnt going to just let you out play him. I dont understand how people can say Jabari Parker is a sure stud in the league he lacks everything that you guys say Shabaaz lacks. Lol but I get it this site is a trend so whatever the "experts" say is what the users go with lol. Knowing the game and watching are two different things. Paul Pierce is a 1st ballot hall of famer and he has no handle or Athletic ability he gets everyone with a step back lol. 17 ppg vs a zone defense is pretty good especially for a guy who cant "create".

Siggy
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Yes those guys have a GREAT

Yes those guys have a GREAT handle. Shabazz can't even dribble with his right hand.
Physical tools is one thing, having the skills to take advantage of those physical tools is another. He had trouble creating separation at the college level. What is he supposed to at the NBA level?
Jabari Parker isn't a "sure stud" but what he has over Shabazz is better ball skills and a better all around floor game. If some of his offensive game doesn't translate in terms of scoring, he has his floor game to fall back on.

Paul Pierce has no handle? What? He has a good handle and he has deception, another thing that Shabazz does not. Pierce was the master of changing speeds and direction (What do you think handle is? It's changing speed and direction with the ball in your hands). Shabazz does not have that in his game.

Siggy
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Now he's gonna sit out some

Now he's gonna sit out some of the testing because of an "injury."

Smart move? Maybe he'll still hold some of the mystique that he's a good athlete.

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No lane agility drills for

No lane agility drills for Shabazz?

Siggy
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They just said during the

They just said during the coverage that he might give it a go. Now he has a built in excuse if he tests poorly.

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Yeah, he said he was just

Yeah, he said he was just going to try to avoid contact so that he doesn't tweak it before he tests.

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Siggy what made bazz a number

Siggy what made bazz a number 1 pick canidate in high school and what's different now? He never showed a handle in high school or making plays for others so why is his stock going down?

Siggy
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Because he's one dimensional

Because he's one dimensional and even that one dimension has serious holes in it.

lakeshow22
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So siggy was he not one

So siggy was he not one dimensional in high school when people had him as number 1 pick? I'm asking what made him a number 1 pick canidate in high school and what's the difference now?

Siggy
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Yes, he was one dimensional

Yes, he was one dimensional in HS. The difference is that the weaknesses in that one dimension were even more magnified at the college level.

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And it wasn't magnified in

And it wasn't magnified in HS?Every thing that made him a number 1 pick canidate in HS he still has. All the weaknesses he showed at UCLA were the same weaknesses he had in HS. Like his ball handling, not creating for others he never had.

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No, not nearly as much since

No, not nearly as much since he could physically dominate HS competition.
Austin Rivers was ranked #1 by some services in his class. His shortcomings as a player were less magnified in the HS game as well because he was so damn prolific. The fact that he shot FTs poorly, couldn't finish with his left, had a weak off-hand, had a skinny build, was a two foot jumper and had terrible shot selection didnt matter as much when he was in HS because even with those flaws, he scored a sht ton of points. VS bigger, better competition those warts look even uglier, especially if they don't improve on them
Its the same story with Shabazz.

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You say he physically

You say he physically dominated HS competition like he was bigger and stronger than everybody he played against. So how come guys like James harden who's About the same size as bazz, Harrison Barnes, MKG and guys like that who were physicically bigger and stronger than everybody yet there athletism didn't stand out the way bazz did. A guy like Andrew Wiggins is 10x the athlete bazz is but bazz may have posterized more people. I just don't get how bazz didn't live up to the expectations of the number 1 pick and that scouts who knew bazz didn't have a good handle, wasn't much of a passer and such knew that bazz wasn't going to show that at UCLA yet they still had him number 1

Also rivers was never seen as a number 1 pick canidate

Siggy
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Harrison Barnes did. He

Harrison Barnes did. He beasted dudes in HS. Harden was always more of a skilled, finesse, all-around player, not someone who just physically imposed himself on defenses. MKG was physically dominant, but in his own way. He used it to dominate defensively, on the boards and just flat out outworking opponents.
Wiggins physically dominates HS comp too. He has to since he can't just rely on his skills, but he does it with straight ranginess and leaping ability, not power.

I don't get what's so difficult to understand. He didn't look like a #1 pick in college despite putting up some good numbers. People were expecting an unstoppable force. Someone who could just overwhelm the competition and will himself to buckets. Someone who could overpower college wings to gain separation to get off his shots. We expected to see more NBA translatable skill. We didn't see that.

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I don't get why people were

I don't get why people were expecting an unstoppable force. He did overwhelm college wings and was able to bully his ways to easy baskets but obviously not as much as he did in high school. If you know his handle wasn't good why were you expecting to him to create his own shot against college wings when he barely did that in HS?Everything that made him a number 1 pick canidate did he not show at UCLA?

Siggy
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Why not? That's what he was

Why not? That's what he was billed to be: a scoring machine.

OK, maybe he shouldn't have been projected as a number 1 pick then. Prognosticators get stuff like this wrong every now and then. It's hardly an exact science. That's why when rankings come out before a player reaches a higher level of competition, you should just throw those ranking out the window. What matters after that is how they perform vs the better competition, not what they did in HS. That stuff is irrelevant.

Harrison Barnes? James McAdoo? Andre Drummond? Alex Poythress? Austin Rivers? Josh Selby?
Shabazz isn't the first highly rated prep to look underwhelming in college and see his stock slip. He won't be the last either.

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Ya and did he not score?he

Ya and did he not score?he was 3rd in the pac 12 in scoring in a system that he says didn't fit his style. those guys had disappointing years. how did bazz disappoint ? Because he didn't average 20 ppg? I don't know how you can compare bazz to guys like Drummond, mcAdoo , poythress guys who struggled ALL year and played soft and passive. Bazz will never be mistaken for that. I saw bazz as a number 1 pick canidate out of school and the reasons why he's not anymore because he was the most scrutinized player in the country and people saying all these red flags about him that are not true

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He did score, but not in a

He did score, but not in a manner that would lead me to believe that he can be a go to scorer at the next level, someone who a team can give the ball to and expect him to get a good shot. That was what he was billed to be coming out of HS.
I once agreed with you that he had #1 overall potential. I still had him at the top as late as a couple of months ago, primarily because he was the only player who i thought had the mentality of a #1 pick.. But the more I watched him, the less i liked him as a prospect, which seems to be the common narrative among people who are down on him. I don't allow preconceived notions i have of a player dictate what i think he should be. I let the player's play shape what i think of him. A player who is a scorer and not much more than that should have more translatable offensive skill than what he has shown.

lakeshow22
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You watched him in high

You watched him in high school was able he able to get a good shot whenever he wanted with his dribble? No that was really never part of his game, so i don't know why everybody was expecting him to do it in college. Also Bazz said this week that he can take players off the dribble and isolations and pick n rolls are big parts of his game but the UCLA system only allowed him to come off screens, spot up and work in the post. Whether that's true or not we don't know. So bazz disappointed cause he didn't score in more different ways that translate to the NBA? Most of the things he did at UCLA was what he showed in HS.

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He can say that he can do a

He can say that he can do a lot of things, but he didn't show that in college. Shabazz had ample opportunity to show that he can do more with the ball in his hands., but he didn't. He could've shown that he had an improved off hand, a better first step, more deception in his game, that he could create more separation via triple and jab steps, that he had a better post game (he wasn't even effective in the post), that he could do something with more than 2 dribbles, etc. The system didn't disallow him from showing his individual skill. Howland's system was as open as it had ever been at UCLA.
Yes, he disappointed in college AS AN NBA PROSPECT because he didn't show enough translatable NBA skill. He's a scorer who's scoring game has big holes in it. If prognosticators had him being a #1 pick out of HS with that skill set, then they turned out to be wrong. Nothing more.

Jesus you ask a lot of questions that you could probably easily answer yourself.

lakeshow22
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I agree that he had ample

I agree that he had ample opportunities to show that he can take players off the dribble and he didn't. But im asking why you had him ranked as a possible number 1 and does he not have all those same qualities?

You seem to be one of the better posters on here, that's why I ask

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same thing that makes every

same thing that makes every top high school kid a potential number 1 pick.its the word potential lol.based on what bazz did in h.s,people thought he would improve on that.instead he looks like he regressed physically and his game still looks the exact same.i really cant understand this sites infatuation with this kid

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It will just be fun to see

It will just be fun to see how he does in the NBA since he seems to be drawing so much attention both good and bad. He is kit picked for everything. He averaged 18 a game for a solid top 25 team. Noel weighs 206 lbs gets pushed around averaged 10 points with no real offensive skills and has broken shooting form where he shot 53% ft's. Ben averaged 9.6 ppg over his last 5 games (3 NCAA tourny and 2 big 12 tourney) where he was on the biggest stage and seemed completely fine with being a wall flower. you can go right on down the line critizing every top prospect but bazz is the only one falling in so many eyes.

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PREAACH!!!!!

Couldnt have put it in better words. Ben and Noel are the top 2 prospects and they have more weakness than anyone else in the top 10

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they have more weaknesses but

they have more weaknesses but also alot more upside.noel has an nba skill in shot blocking,and ben can really shoot and is a freak athlete.bazz is a decent shooter,and decent aathlete

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hotrod_mathews- stop being

hotrod_mathews- stop being ignorant dog. kobe, joe johnson and brandon roy all have pretty good handles. maybe not known for it but def NOT a flaw in thier games. I just read siggys response so this dosnt even matter but damn if u think bazz is top 5 in this draft then ur on crack...and as far as being a 'real ball player' lol idk man maybe your nice but ur hoop knowledge is off point

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BasketballJunkie22

My point wasnt that their handles are horrible, my point was that you dont have to be an ankle breaker to be considered a pretty good ball handler. Bazz handle isnt great but it isnt horrible. My hoop knowledge is the same knowledge that said the Harrison Barnes critics were wrong! He was a guy that people said can create a shot, doesnt have a high motor, or a great athlete lol. How can you not see the same thing in Bazz?? He could have went to kentucky with 6 all-americans and hid his weakness behind them and averaged 13 ppg but he went to a team that was rebuilding their identity and led them to some pretty good upsets and the NCAA tourny. He is def top 5 in this draft. Idk maybe I watch the game too much but Noel is 207 lol with no post moves. Ben's handle is on the same level as Bazz n he doesnt show up on the road or in big games. Idk the point of this is all OPINION, so you cant really rule someones view completely out until we actually see what happens. You prolly thoought Thomas Robinson and MGK were going to have better seasons then Barnes and Drummond. Bra you have a pic of Darius Miles lol he would of been top 5 in this draft huh???

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Bazz

I agree that he was a much better athlete in high school... I just don't understand why he had such a major drop off. You could use the excuse that he was injured before the season and couldn't get in shape, but as the season progressed he should of slowly got into shape. College is not like NBA, you have plenty of time and practices in between games to lift and work out.

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Bazz actually tested pretty

Bazz actually tested pretty decent, he solidified himself as an above average athlete by NBA standards. I think the hype of him being an elite leaper and a Kobe Bryant caliber athlete really turned people off (myself included) when they saw him at 230 lbs during his first game as a Bruin. I'm not a huge fan of his game, but that's not new if you come to this site, but I will admit he is in better shape and probably helped himself a little over the past couple days.

The thing for him is that guys like Adams, Gobert, McCollum and others (even Tim Hardaway Jr. imo) also really helped themselves out and they're all battling for spots at the end of the lottery. All it takes is one team, though, I forsee Bazz as a starter for most of his career, maybe a guy who scores low to mid double digits on his career, and that's a pretty good pickup in the mid to late lottery. I just feel like he isn't a top 5 or 6 prospect, which was my deal with him all along.

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Joewolf did bazz look to you

Joewolf did bazz look to you like he was in better shape? Did he loose weight?

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He looked a little leaner,

He looked a little leaner, but could still lose 5 lbs if he wanted to take his fitness up a level. After seeing him at 230 and now at 221, I don't think his playing weight should be any higher than it is now.

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shabazz lateral numbers?

I see numbers on a lot of other guys in articles and nothing on shabazz. the only reason I know his vertical numbers is because I have been checking these posts. can someone let me know what his numbers were in the lateral quickness drills. it would be greatly appreciated.

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Whoever it was that said Bazz

Whoever it was that said Bazz likely won't be a top 5 player out of his class might want to take a raincheck on that one. Surely Bazz has as much upside as anyone in the draft and with his work ethic and killer mentality, he will surely get close providing he doesn't get severely injured or something. I'm not a fan of his selfish play, but he has a good head on his shoulders and should adapt to the team game in the NBA once he realizes almost everyone around him is better than him.

As a top 5 player out of this class, I'm going with Bazz.

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if everybody around him is

if everybody around him is better,that should mean he isnt top 5 lol.if he has such a great work ethic,he wouldnt have been out of shape in the 1st place.this guy has played ball nonstop for 5 years.you dont just all of a sudden wind up out of shape.if missing 3 games and a tweaked ankle cause you to gain 15 lbs then you werent in great shape to begin with.

as far as his games goes and being a top 5 player,he is the only guy that has a huge hole in their game.he literally cant go right.you cant name 1 other good scorer in the league that has that same type of flaw.if he cant go right and he has been playing since 6th grade,i just cant really see him picking that up anytime soon.great lefty scorers like redd,van excel,ginobli,mullin,etc could score from anywhere on court.he just has too big a hole to overcome

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I clearly said most of the

I clearly said most of the people in the NBA are better than him right now, not that everyone in this draft is better than him; big difference. I don't even think the top 5 best players in this draft are better than most NBA players. These are unproven soon-to-be NBA players, after all.

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