[WhodunitParticipant]

 What system is he gonna play in? Who is the coach and whats his style of play? And most importantly: How good is their Player Development Branch?

The probability of Andrew Wiggins being a good player or Superstar jumps exponentially if he gets drafted by OKC, Spurs, Indiana or Chicago as compared to the Cavs, Bucks or Jazz.

When all these Draft experts talk about Player X’s potential they never mention what he needs from the team thats drafting him. Its as if they promote the idea that if Player X doesnt make it in the league than its SOLELY their fault.

I know for a fact with my team, The Wizards, that our player development branch is pathetic. We’ve seen so many rookies drafted these past years and how many of them have stuck? Its exactly why i was happy we traded our 1st rounder for Gortat. We were gonna draft another rookie with "potential" than never cultivate that potential into anything worth keeping. And we’d be done with him once his rookie deal was finished. 

All these players come in with varying degrees of Potential, but its up to thier respective teams to work with them to realize it. 

Another thing to be said is the lack of systemic play in the NBA. Sooooo many new coaches every year, sooo many new philosophies every year, sooo much to learn and change every year. No wonder why there are so many busts every year, because their is no outlined system or philosophy in play.

Its safe to say that San Antonio could take any of these top 20 prospoects and make him a servicable NBA player for years to come. To build him up the right way and give him qualities that any NBA team could use. Lottery teams dont have that, which is why they’re here so frequently hoping on the next player with potenial who requires minimum development and is self-motivated and knowledgeabale about everything HE needs to do for himself.

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 You bring up some good points that do indeed go undiscussed. However its not just on player development department, its also on the scouting department.  Do you fault the player development for Jan Vesely never panning out or the front office for terrible scouting? I think its more on the scouting and the players motivation than it is on the player development department…. Though they do go undiscussed you are right about that.

With a team like the Cavs it might be both…. Because lord knows they have blown more picks than anybody the past few years.  But a team like the Jazz seems to draft and develop decently…

One thing I do know is we could put together a scouting team of 5 to 10 members from this website and out perform some teams in the NBA… I have no doubt about that.

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 You bring up some good points that do indeed go undiscussed. However its not just on player development department, its also on the scouting department.  Do you fault the player development for Jan Vesely never panning out or the front office for terrible scouting? I think its more on the scouting and the players motivation than it is on the player development department…. Though they do go undiscussed you are right about that.

With a team like the Cavs it might be both…. Because lord knows they have blown more picks than anybody the past few years.  But a team like the Jazz seems to draft and develop decently…

One thing I do know is we could put together a scouting team of 5 to 10 members from this website and out perform some teams in the NBA… I have no doubt about that.

 

 

[WhodunitParticipant]

 He had great athleticism, good Basketball IQ, good energy and was pretty versatile to start with. He came in with those qualities. What did we add to his foundation?? Nothing, maybe the ability to foul once per minute of play.

I really thought he would be great but we all knew he was very raw to start with. He couldnt shoot at all and was not really a big man capable of doing big man things. I think 80% of the Vesely failure is on the Wizarss themselves. Its also important to note that losing consistently breaks a players spirit and strive to get better. The developan apatheticc mindset. And hopefully Wall and Beal have started to think like "winners" now after this season.

You know, i agree with you now that i think about it, the Jazz do do a pretty good job drafting and developing their own.

I think Scouting isnt really that big of a deal. All the teams do it and all of them basically arrive at the same conclusions for the most part. A good scout might be able to see something all the others missed, but how many "Great Scouts" are out there. And doesnt the individual workouts around draft time matter something like 70% when a team decides if they like a player. All these scouts have the same exact players on their radar with similar notes on them. Otherwise we would have players ranked drastically differently on all these "pro" mock drafts that every website carries.

I think about Mel Kiper and Todd McShay with the NFL. Judging from their mock drafts of 2014 they had no idea what the hell they were talking about because their predictions were way off that its laughable to call them "experts".

[WhodunitParticipant]

 He had great athleticism, good Basketball IQ, good energy and was pretty versatile to start with. He came in with those qualities. What did we add to his foundation?? Nothing, maybe the ability to foul once per minute of play.

I really thought he would be great but we all knew he was very raw to start with. He couldnt shoot at all and was not really a big man capable of doing big man things. I think 80% of the Vesely failure is on the Wizarss themselves. Its also important to note that losing consistently breaks a players spirit and strive to get better. The developan apatheticc mindset. And hopefully Wall and Beal have started to think like "winners" now after this season.

You know, i agree with you now that i think about it, the Jazz do do a pretty good job drafting and developing their own.

I think Scouting isnt really that big of a deal. All the teams do it and all of them basically arrive at the same conclusions for the most part. A good scout might be able to see something all the others missed, but how many "Great Scouts" are out there. And doesnt the individual workouts around draft time matter something like 70% when a team decides if they like a player. All these scouts have the same exact players on their radar with similar notes on them. Otherwise we would have players ranked drastically differently on all these "pro" mock drafts that every website carries.

I think about Mel Kiper and Todd McShay with the NFL. Judging from their mock drafts of 2014 they had no idea what the hell they were talking about because their predictions were way off that its laughable to call them "experts".

[vnmslsrbmsParticipant]

 Really?  That guy was all skin and bones, and couldn’t do anything other than hustle and look awkward on the court.  The main thing he had going for him was his kiss with his girlfriend.  I think it’s ultimately on the players to grow themselves, but of course with the right mentoring it’s much easier.  

[vnmslsrbmsParticipant]

 Really?  That guy was all skin and bones, and couldn’t do anything other than hustle and look awkward on the court.  The main thing he had going for him was his kiss with his girlfriend.  I think it’s ultimately on the players to grow themselves, but of course with the right mentoring it’s much easier.  

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

Does Kawhi Leonard become the player he is today if the Cavs take him at #4 instead of Tristain Thompson? Doubtful.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

Does Kawhi Leonard become the player he is today if the Cavs take him at #4 instead of Tristain Thompson? Doubtful.

[arjundhanoaParticipant]

 Player development is great and all, but all the guys with true desire do the majority of their work in the offseason anyway with Tim Grover or another player development coach of their choosing.

What’s most important is getting drafted into a position where the player’s development is going to be emphasized and their is a path to some PT. Not many players can display their natural game with 5 touches a night and when facing a quick hook if they make a mistake.

For bigs they also need a system which finds them touches. Look at Valanciunas, he’s the kinda big who does a lot of small things right, and always shoots at a high clip. Before Rudy was traded he could maybe be considered a disapointment because of percieved offensive indifference, averaging around 8 and 8. Suddenly when he started seeing the ball more his confidence improved which helped his overall game.

As disapointing as Bennett was last year, blame must also be assigned to the Cavs. When he was hitting his stride before the Allstar break and had shed some lbs, Cle shoulda been more concerned with developing him than on devoting time to a mediocre rotation big like Thompson, even if doing so slightly improved their chances of making the playoffs. The goal is to win championships, and developing Bennett gave them a better chance of doing so then crippling the guy’s confidence and setting him up as a scapegoat.

If you pick a player who you expect can become a difference maker, you need to develop him as such, because if you don’t prioritize a role and development plan for these young players, their likely NBA future will be that of a journeyman. How many guys who come off their rookie deals who are largely unknown ever move to a new situation and become AllStars? You can say TMac, but everyone knew he was a beast, was already getting legit minutes & shots, and probably should have started alongside Carter in Toronto. Ariza has had a good career for someone who logged alot of DNPCD’s. Michael Redd also had a nice career.

 But all of these guys were mid-first or 2nd round (in Redd’s case) picks, and weren’t burdened with high expectations. Does anyone recall any top-10 players who went the other way? Tyson Chandler improved, but he was always given PT and considered a franchise building block (defensively anyway). Any other name’s come to mind?

 Sure, sometimes it’s on the player because they really can’t play, don’t fit the system, are uncoachable etc. But can you really tell me anything about how good a guy like CJ McCullum really is? The kid was drafted before MCW, and is supposedly a good shooter and scorer, two traits he exibited this past season. But because of the situation he was drafted into, I honestly believe his chances of becoming a 20pt scorer and AllStar are all but over, unless he gets traded soon. Otherwise the tendencies he will develop as a role player will almost never result in him being the kind of assertive guy who feels comfortable taking so many shots. Simply put, by product of where he was selected he will never have the chance to be handed the keys to an offense to see what he is really capable of.

[vnmslsrbmsParticipant]

 But on the Cavs, Thompson was their 4th pick.  He’s supposed to be a difference maker too.  Still I agree the Cavs are idiots.  Drafting a guy who’s a PF, asking him to slim down and play SF, and not really giving him the chance to do it.  Basically setting him up for failure and then making sure he fails.  With that said, would Kyrie be a better player if he wasn’t on the Cavs?  I think definitely so.  If he even had a good offensive coach like D’antoni, he’d be better at running an (unconventional) offense.  He would be really good under Thibodeau, who’d make him play some D.  

[vnmslsrbmsParticipant]

 But on the Cavs, Thompson was their 4th pick.  He’s supposed to be a difference maker too.  Still I agree the Cavs are idiots.  Drafting a guy who’s a PF, asking him to slim down and play SF, and not really giving him the chance to do it.  Basically setting him up for failure and then making sure he fails.  With that said, would Kyrie be a better player if he wasn’t on the Cavs?  I think definitely so.  If he even had a good offensive coach like D’antoni, he’d be better at running an (unconventional) offense.  He would be really good under Thibodeau, who’d make him play some D.  

[arjundhanoaParticipant]

 Player development is great and all, but all the guys with true desire do the majority of their work in the offseason anyway with Tim Grover or another player development coach of their choosing.

What’s most important is getting drafted into a position where the player’s development is going to be emphasized and their is a path to some PT. Not many players can display their natural game with 5 touches a night and when facing a quick hook if they make a mistake.

For bigs they also need a system which finds them touches. Look at Valanciunas, he’s the kinda big who does a lot of small things right, and always shoots at a high clip. Before Rudy was traded he could maybe be considered a disapointment because of percieved offensive indifference, averaging around 8 and 8. Suddenly when he started seeing the ball more his confidence improved which helped his overall game.

As disapointing as Bennett was last year, blame must also be assigned to the Cavs. When he was hitting his stride before the Allstar break and had shed some lbs, Cle shoulda been more concerned with developing him than on devoting time to a mediocre rotation big like Thompson, even if doing so slightly improved their chances of making the playoffs. The goal is to win championships, and developing Bennett gave them a better chance of doing so then crippling the guy’s confidence and setting him up as a scapegoat.

If you pick a player who you expect can become a difference maker, you need to develop him as such, because if you don’t prioritize a role and development plan for these young players, their likely NBA future will be that of a journeyman. How many guys who come off their rookie deals who are largely unknown ever move to a new situation and become AllStars? You can say TMac, but everyone knew he was a beast, was already getting legit minutes & shots, and probably should have started alongside Carter in Toronto. Ariza has had a good career for someone who logged alot of DNPCD’s. Michael Redd also had a nice career.

 But all of these guys were mid-first or 2nd round (in Redd’s case) picks, and weren’t burdened with high expectations. Does anyone recall any top-10 players who went the other way? Tyson Chandler improved, but he was always given PT and considered a franchise building block (defensively anyway). Any other name’s come to mind?

 Sure, sometimes it’s on the player because they really can’t play, don’t fit the system, are uncoachable etc. But can you really tell me anything about how good a guy like CJ McCullum really is? The kid was drafted before MCW, and is supposedly a good shooter and scorer, two traits he exibited this past season. But because of the situation he was drafted into, I honestly believe his chances of becoming a 20pt scorer and AllStar are all but over, unless he gets traded soon. Otherwise the tendencies he will develop as a role player will almost never result in him being the kind of assertive guy who feels comfortable taking so many shots. Simply put, by product of where he was selected he will never have the chance to be handed the keys to an offense to see what he is really capable of.

[omphalosParticipant]

 Yeah player development is extremely important for how players pan out, but sometimes development is no substitute for responsbility.

If you look at guys like Michael Beasley who needed minutes and the scoring load of the franchise to show his true value and stay motivated, or say Harrison Barnes who had a great post-season and then a terrible regular season because Iguodala came in and took all his minutes.

Barnes could still develop into being a superstar, but it won’t be with Golden State the way they are right now, he just doesn’t have enough pressure on him to be a high-performer now that he’s coming off the bench, and he’s not benefiting from the system like Kawhi is with San Antonio because hes coming off the bench.

I could see the exact same thing happening with Wiggins if he goes to Cleveland, he’s not going to be pushed and he was already a passive guy so he won’t amount to much for the Cavs beyond what Kawhi is doing for the Spurs in the regular season unless Kyrie goes.

It’s not a matter of development for Wiggins as it is opportunity.

This is why I was so pissed off that Cleveland got the #1, because with Kyrie "all about me" Irving and Dion already there then only Embiid stood a real chance of getting developed because he provides something completely different, but another perimeter guy? No chance.

Maybe David Blatt will change all that or Kyrie won’t stick around, but it’s hard to see Wiggins hitting his ceiling with a team like Cleveland, I hope Parker goes first to the Cavs and Wiggins gets the Bucks or Sixers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[omphalosParticipant]

 Yeah player development is extremely important for how players pan out, but sometimes development is no substitute for responsbility.

If you look at guys like Michael Beasley who needed minutes and the scoring load of the franchise to show his true value and stay motivated, or say Harrison Barnes who had a great post-season and then a terrible regular season because Iguodala came in and took all his minutes.

Barnes could still develop into being a superstar, but it won’t be with Golden State the way they are right now, he just doesn’t have enough pressure on him to be a high-performer now that he’s coming off the bench, and he’s not benefiting from the system like Kawhi is with San Antonio because hes coming off the bench.

I could see the exact same thing happening with Wiggins if he goes to Cleveland, he’s not going to be pushed and he was already a passive guy so he won’t amount to much for the Cavs beyond what Kawhi is doing for the Spurs in the regular season unless Kyrie goes.

It’s not a matter of development for Wiggins as it is opportunity.

This is why I was so pissed off that Cleveland got the #1, because with Kyrie "all about me" Irving and Dion already there then only Embiid stood a real chance of getting developed because he provides something completely different, but another perimeter guy? No chance.

Maybe David Blatt will change all that or Kyrie won’t stick around, but it’s hard to see Wiggins hitting his ceiling with a team like Cleveland, I hope Parker goes first to the Cavs and Wiggins gets the Bucks or Sixers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Toronto16Participant]

 I think if you are a great player, it doesn’t matter where you get drafted you will be great (Lebron, Durant, hopefully Wiggins) Your talent will supercede the franchise you are with regardless of coaching and player development.  Why do you think so many of the greats make horrible coaches? Because they never needed it when they were growing up.

 

When you are a system player (Kawhi Leonard, Paul George) Where you go and how fast they bring you along matters to your development.  I am of the minority that thinks Darko Milicic would have been a better player if he had been drafted into a situation where he got to play right away.

 

 

[Toronto16Participant]

 I think if you are a great player, it doesn’t matter where you get drafted you will be great (Lebron, Durant, hopefully Wiggins) Your talent will supercede the franchise you are with regardless of coaching and player development.  Why do you think so many of the greats make horrible coaches? Because they never needed it when they were growing up.

 

When you are a system player (Kawhi Leonard, Paul George) Where you go and how fast they bring you along matters to your development.  I am of the minority that thinks Darko Milicic would have been a better player if he had been drafted into a situation where he got to play right away.

 

 

[Neggedpastor]

I was just thinking how much experience does the cavs coach have in player development (with top American players) ?

I think he will need a sr assistant coach with a lot of years working with player development and head coach exp.

I wish he would have joined the sixers as an assistant coach.

player development and the coaching staff your hire are very important

the bulls coached helped many young Celtic players , mo cheeks helped westbrook ,harden,reggie Jackson.

[Neggedpastor]

I was just thinking how much experience does the cavs coach have in player development (with top American players) ?

I think he will need a sr assistant coach with a lot of years working with player development and head coach exp.

I wish he would have joined the sixers as an assistant coach.

player development and the coaching staff your hire are very important

the bulls coached helped many young Celtic players , mo cheeks helped westbrook ,harden,reggie Jackson.

[LeFlopJAMESParticipant]

Others are mentally ready to play, Some have to add skills, Others to bulk up…

Bennett, Len , 8Porter, McLemore and others will rise next year with less pressure on them.

[LeFlopJAMESParticipant]

Others are mentally ready to play, Some have to add skills, Others to bulk up…

Bennett, Len , 8Porter, McLemore and others will rise next year with less pressure on them.

[Author]

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