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See No Evil:PJones

jjonz
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See No Evil:PJones

I mean guys get money/clothing all the time from agents,coaches, and everybody else that wants to profit from a young mans talents in the near future. If PJones went to Duke this would have never come out.


Meditated States
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It's BS

Why now? It's a loan already repaid and the kid was in high school at the time. I would rather go overseas and get paid than be under the NCAA slavery rules.The school, and us who run it will prosper and you ni99a, your gonna work for free. You can't have a job and your a$$ should be grateful you got a fullboat. You destroy your knee your out and good luck to ya.

M-DYMES
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Really? U had to take the

Really? U had to take the time to throw in ni99a? And these dudes aint working for free. Do you know how much a scholarship is worth to most people who are willing to put their schooling to use? Thats the problem. Many of these players feel they are cheated out of money but really they are gettin a priviledge to go to school for free. If u want money go overseas and play, but to think the NCAA is cheating these players by making them "work" without compensation is just an ignorant statement.

Tell me they aint compensated? Believe me when you work your arse off damn near full time hours while going to school as a fulltime student to put yourself though a state school like PITT, a scholarship is plenty of compensation to get to throw a ball through a hoop.

Meditated States
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They are working for free

When u make the NCAA billions and u get just a scholarship that is based on your performance thats free. Yes I threw in the Ni99a cuz that is what those guys up talk are thinking yes indeed. They are not saying i, but thats what they are thinking. These kids a lot of them come from nothing and families are poor. How much money does the school make off them and their jersey's? Not plenty of compensation when people make billions for you throwing it in the hoop dumba$$. Your ignorant 4 thinking that people should get billions and tell you bust your but on the court, but you can't have a job when they know your poor.

M-DYMES
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Yea I'm sure that what Duke

Yea I'm sure that what Duke is calling Kyle Singler , yea hes a real ni99a. Comeon man u kno that comment is unnecessary. This aint that slavery shiot where u got the awful white man upstair abusing his slaves. This is basketball bro. These players have every right to deny a scholarship and go overseas. The NCAA has every right to do as they so choose. If it aint fair, no one is forcing your hand. Just dont go to college...its a priviledge not a right of passage.

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@M-dymes The top level guys

@M-dymes

The top level guys couldnt care less about their free scholarship. Many guys dont even attend class after the season is up if they know they are a lottery pick. I mean why would they? They know they arent going to graduate because they got million dollar checks waiting for them with their name on it. I dont blame them for not caring about college because thats not where the money is for them. Pay the kid a 100k and be done with it. I think 100k should be the limit if a school wants to pay a guy to go there. I dont see anything wrong with a "student athlete" being paid to play basketball and make the basketball program millions of dollars.

Meditated States
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Tyrober I agree

100k is fair if the NCAA makes billions

M-DYMES
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Thats what wrong wit these

Thats what wrong wit these guys. They don't see the value of a scholarship. If they honestly saw the future, when they need a reliable career if anything falls apart for their NBA hopes and dreams, then they may see how valuable that scholarship is. Go pull a Jennings then and go overseas, get paid, and comeback when your ready. His stock took a little hit, but he still went very high. It aint a big deal. These dudes only playing 1 year as it is anyway and then they go on and make a killing in the NBA. They should relish their opportunity to attend college cuz there are plenty of people who would kill to be in the position they are in, by no stretch of the imagination.

M-DYMES
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Learn how to take care of

Learn how to take care of your finance too because clearly some players desperately need to learn how to manage funds.

jjonz
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Loyalty is a 1 way Street

Coaches look kids straight in the eye & say come here and i' ll help you out get you to believe in the program & then they bounce for a better position. Look @ the Salaries of the Coaches. Dude from Tenn. got caught cheating & got a slap on the wrist. You can't compare you situation to theirs because you're not a Top Level student. How Much $$$ would Lebron had brought to Ohio State? And how Much $$$ would he had gotten out of that deal? absolutely Nothing, JTressel just got slapped on the wrist for his knowledge of what his players did. I just think that the Players get the short end of this money making machine that is called the NCAA.

M-DYMES
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As they should. This is

As they should. This is college ball, this technically is not professional. For the coaches this is their profession. They are suppose to improve the players abilities in their field and give them the tools to develop and become better prospects in their industry, just as professors do for the "other" students. Tuition rates, room and board, all that shiot robs the casual student as well. The entire college experience is becoming a money hungry industry where the gains are continuing to fall short of what you pay out for it. Expand your mind and open you eyes, this goes far beyond just NCAA basketball. They already are continuing to increase tutition rates, state governments are dropping funding, and the students and their supporters are the ones having to make up for the expense. This is just put on a greater stage b/c it is sports and it more sexy to think about and it is more readily exposed. Every student, athlete or not, is getting forked over by the system.

BKKnicksfan
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A) Any dude that's wasting

A) Any dude that's wasting time throwing in Nikka in a post is a LOSER. Plain and simple. The fact you took the time to put the word in there makes you a lame

jjonz
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Great Points

I'll open up a little more & see the big picture, Thanks

M-DYMES
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No prob man, i see where your

No prob man, i see where your coming from and prior to a few years ago i felt the same way once they put in that 1 n done rule into effect. But yeah man, ever since I started going to PITT I saw how fuocked up all this college shiot is man. I adivse everyone to take time to investigate college and all that before committing. If you aren't 100% positive it is what you want to do, dont enter it right now just b/c it is what you are told you are suppose to or need to do. These customs are passed down over time and it all gets started with a higher power who leads you to believe this way. They say it is how they become successful but fact of the matter is it is just the ultimate marketing too to get you to continue to pay into an industry where the dividends for paying into the system are diminishing.

Overall, ill just say, 90% of American higher education is a sham, a straight up sham.

M-DYMES
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Sorry, i know Ive kind of

Sorry, i know Ive kind of gotten off topic but this gets me heated a bit...but for anyone who is still young and about to take that next step to exit HS and venture off into the real world or attend college...here is my honest to God opinion about what is your best option given the state of the economy and what is coming about with colleges and job placement in recent years.

1. Attain a entry level job (not necessarily great pay, just a entry position, preferably with solid benefits). Working at a hosptial or in a field that correlates with what you would plan to study in the future. One huge benefit could be tuition reimbursment which applies as you take your part-time courses, see step 4)

2. Work that job full-time or part-time, whatever allows you to still attain their benefits.

3. Find a cheap apartment or live out your parents if possible for the next few years.

4. At the same time, attend a class or 2 per semester at a cheap community college. The attention you will get from professors is much greater than at a big state university and they are more committed to you as a student. Its a hell lot cheaper too and honestly I dont see a huge difference in the value of the courses at a community college v. state/private school.

5. Over the years you will build rapport with your company and hopefully recieve increased pay or a promotion with the firm.

6. Over the course of these years you will have been able to bring in solid income, while still attending college at a cheaper rate (if you attain tuition reimbursement), as opposed to spending 4 years of non-stop schooling where you are not able to bring in as great of an income and build as strong of a resume as you could by building a long, extending relationship with an existing company. This way once you are done school, you already have a job and are not left searching for one with little real job experience on your resume.

Just my thoughts. Sorry for hijackin your thread.

Meditated States
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@M-Dymes How can a person who is poor

and is told they can't have a job manage funds? What funds?

jjonz
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i just see things going on

& start a thread sometimes to get a prove a point other times just for discussion regardless it's all good

M-DYMES
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What are you talkin bout man.

What are you talkin bout man. Those top prospect players you are talkin bout are gonna get paid in the league reardless. Once they make it there they need to know how to manage all that money they rake in as NBA players or ya end up like Antoine Walker. Its also nice to have money managing skills in case an injury or circumstace occurs where they can't play ball for a living. Having a degree never hurts...when you can get it for free.

BOBBYBOBBALBOA
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College in Quebec (Canada) is

College in Quebec (Canada) is so cheaper. It's like 3000$ a semester in one of the top universities in the world. But basketball sucks here...

billyk
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I think if you come from (

I think if you come from ( middle income to high income) backgrounds it easy to give advice about money management... The fact of the matter is a lot of kids come from the ghetto or low income backgrounds that don't value somethings that middle-high class kids... I bet Kyle singled come from a middle class background... Not all kids view college the same and to think that big time college schools aren't sport factories is just wrong... Scout4 real used the word "ni99a" because a lot of these kids come to college and get taking advantage off, in a way it is a form of modern day slavery.. And to tell a kid that if he doesnt agree will the hypocrisy that is college sports that he should go to some far away country they prolly hasnt heard off is wrong...

Universities make billions of dollars off kids backs.. yes they get a free education, but the money they make for schools more than make up for the education.. Coming from a certain perspective getting a free education is gravy, but for anybody that has seen what life is
Iike being poor or living in the hood, going to school is something of an after thought...

M-DYMES
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Im sorry but BS

Im sorry but BS billyk...

Those kids u talking bout aint gettin taken advantage of. In fact they are given one hell of an opportunity. Lots of times there is no way in hell some of these kids would be able to attend a university but now they get to go in for free because they are great basketball players. Give me a break, they aint gettin ripped off. They are just being stupid if they are wasting this opportunity to further their learning and make something of their lives. Why do you think so many kids bust their ass off for scholarships even though they may not be close to NBA material? It is to get to college, to get out of the gutter, get a great job and support their fam.

Thats precisely the problem. School shouldnt be the afterthought when you are given the OPPORTUNITY to get in for free. No ifs ands or buts. And it is not slavery when you are getting compensated to that extent. Give me a break. Slavery...smh. That is an insult to all of those who actually went through life when slavery was 4 real. No one is forcing anyones hand.

Didnt mean to make this seem like an attack on u in anyway bro...its just something im passionate about.

billyk
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You don't have to be sorry...

You don't have to be sorry... I disagree those kids are being taking advantage off, you have a particular perspective I assume that's rooted in your upbringing.. The fact of the matter is if you grow up in a household that doesn't value you education, chances are you won't value education.. Have you ever seen a high school in the hood? Believe me going to some of those schools the last thing on your mind is education, growing up in a single parent household with no real mentor but a AAU coach is a problem.. When I say slavery don't get it confused with the slavery from the 1800's, I'm talking a MODERN DAY FORM of SLAVERY... 18 year old kids are coming to these sport industrial complex and are being used as a commodity, to think they are TRUE student athletes is NOT understanding the reality of the situation... I used to word "slave" because they are making universities billions of dollars without any compensation, I dont call room and board compensation..

Kids who busted there ass for scholarships understand the big picture, but often times they are the exception to the rule or come from families that value education.. Some some these kids never been out their cities except for AAU games... I wish everybody understond the value of an education, but I also realize that we all come from different upbringings and have diffrent perspectives... Btw if some coach says, "act right or you going back to the gutter you came from," I believe that that's forcing the kid to act a particular way...

M-DYMES
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Exactly my point. That is no

Exactly my point. That is no excuse though. Believe me I had plenty of friends who were the same way, dropping out of school and not taking any of it seriously. But that is their fault, and partially their environment. But by this age, you need to make decisions for yourself and break away from your upbringing to succeed. Its tough, but it is often a necessity. When these athletes are given that opportunity it is not worthless, it is someting they need to take advantage of. Especially, when you have grown up in poverty. You cant walk around life feeling sorry for yourself or just hustling 2 get by. I was the same way when i was younger, but there comes a point in life where you need to realize, legitimate business at a legitimate route is the way to go. College gives them that opportunity and if they are too stubborn or just fail to realize the value of the opportunity to make something of themselves, then that is their own failure.

BTW I grew up in North Philly so it not like I am just some kid from a rural or suburban environment who doesnt know the mentality of kids who aint necessarily going to top schools. i understand the struggle but when you start to reach the age where u break away from the fam then u gotta wake up and realize how the world really works.

And that slavery statement that continues to be made is laughable to me. They have a right of choice. If I was a slave I would take what you are saying pretty offensively b/c that is in no way near what slavery truly was.

M-DYMES
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Slavery is a system under

Slavery is a system under which people are treated as property and are forced to work

1. These players are not forced to do anything.

2. They are not property. To some extent you may feel they are treated that way, but the player still holds all of their rights. They can up and leave whenever they so choose. Whether that means quitting, just leaving, transfering, or graduating.

billyk
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I appreciate you thoughtful

I appreciate you thoughtful and civil debate, but I feel that their is always an exception to the rule... Some kids do get the big picture and some kids dont, we all mature at different paces and frankly some kids never mature... To think every kid should view education and life the way you do, is purely living in a utopian world.. That ideology is one that is grounded in maturity and rationality, but we all know the world doesnt work that way if I didn't we would have wars, famine and the type of social injustices that go on in th world...

Its impossible to understand the thought process of these young kids unless we have walked in their shoes, but the fact is the majority don't suceed from an education point of view and to give them all the blame is quite confusing to me... When I use the word "slave" I mean it in a modern day sense... If a "blue chip" recruit signs to a university, believe me the university sees a net worth in that athlete, they don't see him as some "student athlete," most kids dont have an opportunity to work and the spend a ridiculous amount of time at "practice'...

As you know slaver comes in many forms and this is a form of slavery... Some of these kids are treated like property and college athletics is a big business, some athletic departments are ran like corporations, so what happened to worker rights? Coaches have the... A lot of kids fear quiting because they don't want to go back were they come from, some kids have a sense of urgency to go pro to help their families and don't want to sit out a year to transfer... To you it may be easy to graduate, but many of these players weren't able to get proper education in high school and with out a proper high school education how are they suppose to deal with a college curriculum?

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i think what is getting lost

i think what is getting lost here is that most college basketball programs are not making millions of dollars. i work at the university of houston and go to some of the mens basketball games. there arent enough people there to make millions. they dont sell many jersey or memorabilia either. when you think of these kids and programs you are thinking high profile. there are about 320 basketball programs in division 1 basketball. maybe 50 to 60 make a profit on mens basketball.

another thing to look at is, to maintain division 1 status, a school must have atleast 10 sports. now the athletic department shares their profits with the other sports such as swimming, golf, field hockey, track and field, and women basketball. so now all this profit a program is getting is being divided to give other students scholarships and keep all the sports running.

so, with little schools in mind and other sports needing funding, how much profit is there really? im gonna guess alot less than many people think. the scholarships kids get are such a privelage that 98% of these athletes across the country are going to take advantage of for 4 years. so how can you justify paying the kids anything.? are you gonna give the 12th man on unc asheville 100k too? its absurd, these scholarships are gold for anybody except the top 25 prospects out of high school, and you cant pay everybody to play because some schools seem like they are making money.

billyk
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Within the context of this

Within the context of this debate I'm talking about major sport institutions... But doesn't Tom Penders make 250 k a year not counting perks, I wouldn't be surprised If thats double what the highest paid faculty makes.. The point is major (basketball and football) college athletics is a big business that's why coaches get high profile salaries and why coaches are so demanding of their athletes...

"Blue chip" athletes are thought of as commodities they bring in the profit to fund other sport departments, these athletes are the reasons these multi billion dollar tv contracts are signed... I don't have the answer, but there has to be some reform to the way the system is ran... Maybe a stipend should be given to top athletes...

joecheck88
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ya but how can you pay blue

ya but how can you pay blue chip athletes and nobody else, there have been good players that went to small colleges and helped them win but werent blue chip(ex kawhi leonard). he was a good player that was probably under recruited. do you pay him? do you pay a guy like ken faried? he wasnt a blue chipper out of hs but he has some of the most impressive numbers.

and the coaches are different, this is their profession. they have worked hard for many years to get their salaries. the college athletes are practicing for their profession. they are getting scholarships and that is enough.

M-DYMES
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Exactly joecheck, a

Exactly joecheck, a scholarship is more than enuf compensation. If they paid athletes, should they pay regular students too? There are plenty of findings and studies that students do that the universities often take partial credit for. Again by paying athletes you are only reinforcing the idea that athletics holds more value than academics.

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The top level guys couldnt

The top level guys couldnt care less about their free scholarship

Not even 1 percent of these players are "top level" what do you do with the other 99 percent? A scholarship is very fair not to mention the money they get on the side, and its no secret they get that money. Are you suggesting give another 100k to all the student athletes. Come on, why even give them scholarships if thats the case. Most people in University or College are in debt thousands of dollars. Hardworking young men and women who need to carry on alot of stress and difficulties supporting themselves so they can ultimately...support themselves. Perry Jones is gaurenteed about 15 Mil over the next 5 years, and also got that scholarship on his talents in a sport. If he destroys his knee he is still going to be better off then many university students, and statements like that are like an slap in the face to those students. Get real Perry Jones is a fricking millionaire in the makin regardlessly.

billyk
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Obviously you guys a

Obviously you guys a particular perspective on college athletics, but the reality is some of these big time players, schools, and coaches are making a MOCKERY of the term student athletes.. If players are making money on the side that means they are not amateur athletes.. I don't see how you can compare regular students to blue chip athletes who are held at a different standard than a regular students... I was a student at SDSU when Steven Strasburg attend school there and he was held to a different standard...

There is reality and rationality.. The REALITY is that blue chip athletes that go to major D 1 schools are used as a commodity they go to school as an avenue to play pro sports.. RATIONALLY speaking the should value their scholarship and follow the guidelines of a student athlete, but lets be real the presidents, athletic directors, booster, agents (all grown ass men) don't follow those rules and set the examples for these young men so why the they get all the blame... Why don't coaches get suspended for a whole season?

Personally I think the idea of the student athlete at some universities is a FARCE... Btw in America athletics/entertainment does hold more value than education, it's SAD but TRUE... That's why such a small percentage of the country own a bachelor degree or higher..

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billyk, That is what i am

billyk,

That is what i am saying. Academics is undervalued in America and it is clear as day. But that doesn't make it right. A scholarship has plenty of value and its up to these players to take advantage of it. I don't care if u come up in the ghetto or if you haven't been educated to that extent, but when they offer u a full ride, that is on them to take advantage of it or waste it. The opportunity is granted to them and that opportunity is worth plenty more than what they give the University in compensation (their bball talent/marketability). Tuition is unreal nowadays, especially at these elite universities.

If they want to waste it its on them. But there is NO EXCUSE for just not utilizing the opportunity. I don't care where you come from, if you work hard enough you can graduate. No ifs ands or buts. Its hard but the greatest rewards in life come from challenges. I guranatee you that even if you came out the gutter and worked your ass off in class, that goes along way. There are plenty of people I know who aren't exactly bright by any means but they work their tails off and end up making more of themselves than people blessed with a level of intellect that they inherit via genetics to some extent.

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