Scheyer vs. Rautins
Both players are very similar in terms of athleticism and lack of potential, and both are a possibility for teams in the late 2nd round. Rautins has a better shot than Scheyer (based on combine results and on the eye test), but Scheyer seems to have better court vision and basketball IQ. Neither are good defenders, and both will likely be defensive liabilities for their NBA careers; both, however, play with a lot of passion and heart. Rautins, for example, was the soul of the Syracuse team...not Wes Johnson; Scheyer was one of the leaders of the Duke championship team.
Which player do you think will have a better/longer career? I'm trending towards Rautins, because he has a very good shot and can play as a spot up shooter, but I think Scheyer's IQ could earn him a spot on a team's bench. Which player (if either) can earn decent minutes, and not just ride the pine and earn DNP-Coach's Decisions?
it depends on which team they get drafted by or if there's an injury during camp..I've seen alot of players that can be quality backups in this league never get a chance...
Probably because he can shoot the lights out, he'd be able to possibly come in and play a role where he can comeout and just be a spot up shooter.
Scheyer on the otehr hand, although he can shoot well, hes not hte shooter Rautins is, but his IQ and vision will earn him a spot likely on a roster, but not much PT
I think Rautins has a better chance than Scheyer.
Scheyer isn't athletic enough to put pressure on the D through dribble drive penetration, and he's not a pure shooter either. Also has terrible physical tools and isn't going to be able to defend any backcourt player. Can't keep small guys out the lane because he's not quick enough, and big guys will either overpower him or blow by him. Or both. I don't see what he'll be able to do to last in the NBA for any significant time if he makes it.
Rautins is a nice shooter. He can function in a role similar to the one Matt Carrol had. I don't think it's a guarantee at all, but he's a better prospect than Scheyer easily IMO
I hope, If Scheyer tries hard enough, he could become somewhat the player that Steve Blake is.
A servicable PG off the bench for a team in need of shooting and distributing.
So I'm rooting for Scheyer. :D
Neither is an elite athlete but Rautins is a better athlete IMO. So just from an athletic/defensive liability perspective you got to go with Rautins....plus he's a better shooter.
Look at Reddick. You can argue he wasnt as good an athlete as either of them (although probably better than Scheyer) but he's turned out to be a fairly decent defender in the NBA so I guess you never know. Defense is so much more about desire than athletic skill its hard to project alot of these guys.
Was known as a defender who could shoot the 3 coming out of college. Steve Blake is a much better defender than Scheyer will ever be. I think Rautins could have a better shot even though I like Scheyer on the offensive end with the low TO's and solid shooting. No where near the shooter Rautins is though.
Neither 1 of these guys play like Blake..Blake had outstanding playmaking skills..Thats what caught alot of scouts eyes..
Why does everyone continue to comment on how much better a shooter Rautins is than Scheyer? Do your research! Scheyer had a better shooting percentage in every major category during their college careers. For example, Scheyer shot 40.6% FG to Rautins 37.4%, he shot 38.1% 3FG to Rautins 37.4% 3FG, & he shot 86% FT to Rautins 76.2%. Now tell me, where does anything in these number suggest that Rautins in a better shooter than Scheyer. & please don't tell me it's b/c of some combine numbers where they shot uncontested jump shots!
I'll just add on the fact that Rautins has had a history of injuries, including a knee injury that required reconstructive surgery...Scheyer seems to be tougher in terms of staying on the court.
In terms of skills, though, I think Rautins does excel at one thing--shooting--which can translate to the next level. Scheyer will need to make smart plays and create for his teammates if he hopes to make it in the NBA. In terms of draft position, I think Scheyer will be drafted earlier simply because he led Duke to a national title this year.
I don't know why I think Rautins is the better shooter; I didn't look at stats this time, I was using the eye test. My roommate's a big Syracuse fan, and I'm a Duke fan, so we watched all those games this year; Rautins just looked like a purer shooter in terms of his stroke, and Scheyer's outside shot was sometimes ugly to watch.
Wich I am not sure either one of these guys are gonna make it, I still think Rautins will find his shot better and more consistently agains Defenses than Schyer. I have a feeling due to their defensive liabilities neither will make a team. I could be wrong, but I see both these guys being bait on D.
People say Rautins shoots better because Scheyer struggled with his shot late this past season..He happened to have a bad stretch at a time when people were really paying attention. I'd say they are pretty similar, Rautins might be better at getting his shot off with the d in his face.
Scheyer has better handles, is more advanced in terms of man defense than Rautins, is FAR less turnover prone--Rautins at times plays stupid, has better court vision, is better shooting free throws.
I really don't understand why Scheyer is looked down upon so much.
It's funny to me,also, when people say Vasquez will be great but Scheyer will suck--Vasquez is no more athletic than Scheyer.
Because Scheyer is nowhere near the ball-handler or passer that Vazquez is. Vazquez can create for himself and others much better than Scheyer can. Has nothing to do with athleticism as to why Vazquez is better, more about talent. Vazquez is much more talented than Scheyer will ever be.
A/TO ratio: Scheyer- 2.98 Vasquez-1.87
Looking simply at assists: Scheyer in his FIRST YEAR as a PG- 4.9 assists, Vasquez 6.3 assists
---This with Vasquez being MUCH more ball-dominant than Scheyer was.
Points Per Shot: Scheyer 1.37 Vasquez 1.26
3PT %: Scheyer .383 Vasquez .359
Both are tall and skinny PG who lack elite athleticism
However, 1 is much smarter on the court than the other. Vasquez may be the better iso-player but that does not make him better in a TEAM game.
It's a surprise to me when Scheyer makes a mistake... It's also a surprise to me when Vasquez DOESN'T make a mistake.
By the way, I think neither will be very effective in the NBA. It just completely baffles me why people think Vasquez is so great and then turn around and say Scheyer sucks.
It's like what I've been told before: "Say things confidently and people will believe you" I guess if Vasquez acts like a tool and he's gods gift to basketball, people will believe he is great. Unfortunately he doesn't know how to play within the limits of his abilities, Scheyer does.
Scheyer had less responsibility than Vazquez did. He didn't put pressure on the D like Vazquez was asked to do. All Scheyer did was make basic passes to open shooters, while Vazquez played in pick and rolls, drive and dishes, and in transition. It's easy to see Vazquez is a much better playmaker in terms of scoring and passing than Scheyer watching them play. Vazquez will greatly benefit from not having to score or dominate the ball like he did at Maryland, and will prove to be a more efficient player than he was in college, while Scheyer will struggle to create offense for himself and others in the NBA where it's much more about creating off the dribble and putting pressure on the D than floating on the perimeter and kicking to open shooters.
Vazquez has proven capable of slashing to the rim and creating for everyone in a way that can translate to the pros, Scheyer would be a liability on both sides of the ball in NBA. He was more efficient than Vazquez, but Vazquez had to carry a whole offense on his back. I wouldn't expect him to be as efficient as a guy who played on a national title team and just played steady ball without having to do too much creating for everyone AND himself..
I take that back. He wasn't more efficient than Scheyer. He just shot a better 3 point percentage and turned the ball over less.
Rautins has only shot the ball better than Scheyer one year, in the last 3 years Scheyer has shot better than Rautins......
Who really is the better shooter?
Rautins is a better shooter, I don't care what the percentages say. He can shoot in more ways and with more range than Scheyer can. I'm telling y'all, Scheyer just stands around the 3 point line and does all of his passing and scoring there for the most part. Rautins can come off screens, picks and he can spot up. Scheyer is simply a basic spot-up shooter.
Andy Rautins is a very underrated defender just like J.J. Redick. I think he will suprise some people with his overall game and stay in the league shooting the 3. He is definitely not a lock for the draft thou because this one is so deep...
Last year he would have been Top 50 easily and who knows maybe he is this year as well...I see veteran teams who lack 3 point range needing him or maybe Orlando if they lose J.J.
7 you dont even know how good of a man defender rautins is, give me a break.
I agree 7 is underrating Rautins as a defender. In my opinion Rautins is the slightly better shooter, and his form, and range bode better in the nba than Scheyer, Hes also a much better defender, imo Hell last longer in the nba, neither will start, but Rautins can be a decent backup.
How do you people know Rautins is a better defender when he played zone his entire collegiate career?
Rautin's is Canadian therefore I've followed alot of his games and closely watched his games.
He is good off the ball, finding spots on the court to be open for jumpers, his stroke is cash, he is tough and leaves it all on the court, a slippery defender who gets alot of steals although won't be able to cheat on the pro level quite as much.
He is an undersized 2 who does not make up for it athletically, his strength is not anywhere near an NBA 2's level, he is one of the older prospects in this draft so upside seems non-apparent.
Hes gonna be in the NBA thou at least for one season. His father is the coach of the Canadian Basketball team so he's got the pedigree down, he is on that team now which is alot harder to do then it seems and is an amazing experience for any young player, he went to a big-name school and was the leader of Syracuse before entering the draft.
Someone who needs 3 point shooting will grab him.
"All Scheyer did was make basic passes to open shooters, while Vazquez played in pick and rolls, drive and dishes, and in transition. It's easy to see Vazquez is a much better playmaker in terms of scoring and passing than Scheyer watching them play."
Vasquez was a better playmaker, I am not doubting that. However, He was an idiot with the ball plenty of times and he also turned the ball over a lot, missed open guys for some ridiculous shot of his own, etc.
"Vazquez will greatly benefit from not having to score or dominate the ball like he did at Maryland, and will prove to be a more efficient player than he was in college"
What makes you think he will be more efficient than college? He is a player, kind of like Turkoglu, that needs the ball in his hands to be relevant. He's a reckless player who wont be going against small college PG's anymore but bigger stronger faster NBA guards.
"while Scheyer will struggle to create offense for himself and others in the NBA where it's much more about creating off the dribble and putting pressure on the D than floating on the perimeter and kicking to open shooters."
Don't underestimate Scheyer's ability to get to the lane and make passes. Duke ran an offense setting screens for shooters, which meant Scheyer did not NEED to drive and dish, etc but he did do it more than you think.. When you said this one pass jumped into my mind:
Fast Forward to 1:28-- I know its only one pass but he has moves and can be a crafty-passing PG
"Vazquez has proven capable of slashing to the rim and creating for everyone in a way that can translate to the pros, Scheyer would be a liability on both sides of the ball in NBA. He was more efficient than Vazquez, but Vazquez had to carry a whole offense on his back. I wouldn't expect him to be as efficient as a guy who played on a national title team and just played steady ball without having to do too much creating for everyone AND himself.."
Vasquez did not need to carry the offense as much as he did though! Look at Marylands stats.. The next 5 highest scorers on that team all had a FG % of 50... And that one guard, his name is slipping my mind, was an excellent 3 PT Shooter. He didn't run the offense, he made himself THE offense.
Defensively, Scheyer is no more of a liability than Vasquez. Offensively, their games differ but I don't see how one is less of a liability than the other. Vasquez can do a few more things, yes, but he will turn the ball over and make way more mistakes. Scheyer will in fact limit what an offense can run when he is in the game--but you know he wont do anything stupid.
Idk if the vid worked:
He'll benefit because he won't be asked to be the 1st option in the NBA ever when he's on the court, which is contrary to how he operated in college. Anytime you have a kind of inefficient scorer who was forced to carry a huge load, and you want to raise his efficiency, you simply take more of a burden off his shoulders. You compare him to Turkoglu, but Vazquez HAS to have the ball in his hands. He plays PG. Turkoglu can only fit in certain systems because he needs the ball to be effective, BUT he's not a PG. There is a big difference.
Are you seriously trying to make a case for Jon Scheyer being a slashing threat? He's slow, not athletic, and he's not even crafty or a good enough ball-handler to make up for it. He picked up his assists this season the same way Rautins did, but kicking to open shooters while hanging around the perimeter. Vazquez is crafty and has an in-between game as well as the ability to finish a fair deal of shots through contact. Scheyer shot 42% on 2-point field goals this past season. That's TERRIBLE. Vazquez was mediocre at 48%, but 42%? And your 6'6? He wasn't a threat around the basket in college, so how can you expect him to be a threat in the NBA? He has trouble getting in the lane, and then is even worse finishing. He's not going to factor on his slashes to the rim.
Why do you think all of them shot 50% from the field? Vazquez. Nobody on that Maryland team was good/efficient at creating their own shot, so they benefited from Vazquez's pressure on the D and the fact that he can create shots for others allowed for them to be efficient players. He has to take control of the offense and create for EVERYBODY, even himself. You have to expect a share of turnovers and relatively inefficient shooting when he had to carry an offense with no true shot-creators outside of himself. And STILL, he shot better from the field than Scheyer did. That should honestly tell you all you need to know.
Well, I would take Rautins just because he seems to be more physical and stronger. Also, why would you say Rautins is a poor defender? He had a reputation as a very good defender in college in one of the most competitive conferences.
i gotta say scheyer will be the better player. haha. i mean i jus like how smart he is and he seems to always come up huge when its time for it. i could see scheyer goin to a team like the spurs or sumthin where he will play in a system.
Never said Scheyer is a slashing threat, not sure where you got that from. Anyways.
Vasquez is better finishing at the rim, Scheyer has a better J.
Vasquez makes plays, sometimes at the cost of fuxkin up a play. Scheyer makes less plays, but doesn't cost as many plays either.
The thing is, Vasquez is not athletic enough to do some of the things he did in college in the NBA. He will have a tough time adjusting to how he is going to play. He needs to learn to play within his limits. Telling a risk-taker to stop taking risks doesn't usually work- he will always fall back onto those habit, and I think he is not good enough to overcome his mindset.
This where I thought you tried to make a case for Scheyer being a slashing threat:
"Don't underestimate Scheyer's ability to get to the lane and make passes. Duke ran an offense setting screens for shooters, which meant Scheyer did not NEED to drive and dish, etc but he did do it more than you think.. When you said this one pass jumped into my mind:
Fast Forward to 1:28-- I know its only one pass but he has moves and can be a crafty-passing PG"
I can touch rim at 5'7 and these guys at 6'4 and 6'6 cant even dunk lol
Ohhh yeah well you're talking like Scheyer cannot drive and dish if his life depended on it. He can. He's not a very good finisher, as he mostly relies on floaters which typically are not very accurate shots, but he can get it in there and find the open guy at times.