This topic contains 68 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar Stanford hoops 14 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #3513
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    MATA
    Participant

    if both where in this years draft, who would you take?
    who has more upside?
    who’ll be the greater player in your opinions?

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  • #145065
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    Drewy111
    Participant

    Rubio, lots of players can score but only a very few can pass like rubio

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  • #145077
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    bluedevils12
    Participant

    I want to say wall but at the same time idk. Wall has amzing upside. I kno he lightning quick and is super athletic and a little flashy. I think wall can turn out like a derrick rose. His height and build are perfect to be a dominant guard in the nBA. Rubio showed me how skilled he ws for his age and played well against the americans. But that was my only time seeing him play and i cant go say he the best pg based off one game. Im going with wall

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  • #145086
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    mbunner23
    Participant

    I’m going to go with John Wall, because of his athleticism. I have to admit, I havent seen Rubio play much.

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  • #145166
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    Lodzio20
    Participant

    I don’t like Rubio…His shoot is terrible…everybody in NBA can block him, he has average speed, average athleticism.He’s only good passer…

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    • #146756
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      Dewy_Spain
      Participant

      His shoot isn’t very good but isn’t terrible.

      He has got only 18 years old andhe can work in his shoot..

      He’s only a good passer? He is a good defender too, he has got a very longs arms. He is able to steal a lot. If he improves his shot he’ll be a great player.

      Andre Miller has an horrible shot and is a great pg, Calderon, when he arrived to NBA, he didn´t shoot very well, and now is one of the best three pointers

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  • #145168
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    Drewy111
    Participant

    What……… How do you know everyone in the NBA can block him he is pretty tall for a of 6″3 . He gets good elevation on his jumper and a nice arch.( 1 problem maybe he tends to jump forward on his three’s. However his shot has developed well over the last year and I reckon it can get good over his career in the NBA

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  • #145175
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    ncballer

    If you need help now take Rubio. If you want a PG for the future take Wall.

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  • #145176
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    Tha King2121
    Participant

    Rubio. He like Jason Kidd or a Steve Nash
    He is also developed and could be a Nba starter on most teams now.

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  • #145455
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    MATA
    Participant

    i read on team usa’s site that wall measured at at 6-1.

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  • #145652
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    Lodzio20
    Participant

    I watch Nike Hoops summit game and John Wall is incredible athletic…im very impressed…i watch Rubio in Euroleague and he’s nothing special…he never be an allstar. I TAKE JOHN WALL

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    • #145676
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      paquichin
      Participant

      ¿incredible athletic?

      Oh… I thought that we were speaking about basketball… ahahahaha

      ¿Is U. Bolt going to declare…? This would be a good pick… wouldn´t he?

      Moreover… if you compares nike hoops with euroleague… ahahahahahaha

      That´s the same that compares a ferrari with a mountain bike

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  • #145679
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    Lodzio20
    Participant

    I think Wall would be better in Euroleague than shit Rubio!!!

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    • #145680
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      paquichin
      Participant

      I think that to be important in Euroleague is very difficult even for a professional…

      Childress is only “one more player” in Olimpiakos, for example.

      The players that come from NCAA can´t be important players in the big teams… they have to learn to play real basketball… and Ricky made this way at 15…

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  • #145686
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    DY_nasty
    Participant

    I just don’t get it. When most prospects were trying out for AAU teams or eating up undersized scrubs in high school, this guy was playing playing pro in Europe. When other guys were getting dismissed by big name schools because of their handlers, Rubio was picking up Deron Williams at halfcourt in the gold medal game. And then when the rest of the guys you compare him to get benched in big games because of bad defense and poor shot selection, Rubio goes out and defensive player accolades and vastly improves his 3 point shooting. So whats left to hate on other than the fact that he’s a Euroleaguer? The hate train was bearing down on Rudy Fernandez just as hard last year at draft time but he’s more than proven that he belongs in the NBA.

    On the other hand you see guys like Wall and Jennings every year. How do they look any different than Louis Williams?

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    • #146084
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      Stanford hoops
      Participant

      all the euros gro up playing pro basketball..yet you dont see them all dominating in the nba..rudy fernandez is older and more developed then rubio plus rubio doesnt even dominate in the euro leauge..have you even watched him play …olympics dont translate to the nba as ive said many times just look at carlos arryo..if we are comparing euro to aau highschool kids lets make a comparison and see which ones do more int he nba

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  • #145695
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    bluedevils12
    Participant

    thats true wat the guy above me jus said. Louis Williams was highly touted much like bassy telfair. Loook at those guys now. role players if u want 2 call them that. ANd as ofr rudy i love his game. that guy has a bright future i think in the league. could be like a manu

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  • #145779
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    MATA
    Participant

    they’re idiots with little knowledge of basketball.don’t waste your time with them.

    bdevils12, i don’t think louis williams or telfair where as good as wall.he’s got ridiculous natural gifts that telfair did not.he can jump out the gym and out run anybody.he’s raw, but once he gets that polish, he’s going to be great.

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  • #145780
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    scg1

    way to pick on the dude for not typing well….class act you are my friend.

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    • #145901
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      paquichin
      Participant

      “way to pick on the dude for not typing well….class act you are my friend.”

      sorry, my english is very poor… and I don´t understand your words… could you tell me the same with another words? Thanks, guy

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  • #145782
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    scg1

    I would still pick Wall. He goes hard on defense and you could easily see that in the summit game. I wish Rubio had been in it though, that would have made it more interesting. Wall is still the best though, most talent of any pg this decade.

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  • #145787
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    fastfingers
    Participant

    rubio is like j-kidd. I doubt he’ll ever become a prolific scorer, but can do a bit of everything else. He looks better than nash since he doesn’t seem to be a big defensive liability. John wall has a big scoring potential.

    I say pick rubio. John wall is still so dang skinny and he’s been depending a lot on his athletism.

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    • #145793
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      MATA
      Participant

      they’re both skinny, fast.

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      • #146096
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        Lodzio20
        Participant

        Rubio is fast??do you watch him play??i watch and he has average speed…Wall is a fast

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  • #145811
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    KATASTROPHE
    Participant

    “He looks better than nash” What!?!? Rubio will be lucky if he has a Steve Nash impact on the league. Nash is one the greatest shooters and passers of all time. I believe before a player enters the league people have a tendency to overrate them before they even play a single season. I have only seen Rubio play in the Olympics and he looked like a decent player but the Olympics is a diffrent animal than the NBA (plus Patty Mills had a good game aganist the USA team) In the NBA you get scouted (they take away your strenghts and expose your weakness)

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  • #145956
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    peterposma
    Participant

    RUBIO!!
    But also Wall rocks!

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  • #146090
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    DY_nasty
    Participant

    I don’t think Carlos Arroyo was ever thought to have the passing ability or even the same physical tools as Rubio. He was quick and could score, that was about it. You’re never going to say that Olympic/Euroleague ball is an equivalent to the NBA but it still acts as a better measuring tool than most.

    The athletic bar is a set a lot lower overseas. Being an NBA caliber athlete is not a requirement to be a great euro player and thus, a lot of guys over there succeed with just being average athletes. However, some guys do have the athleticism of NBA players – and those are usually the ones to succeed here. I think everyone can see that Rubio is more athletic than guys like Marko Jaric and Ukic – so why even begin to compare him to those guys?

    Going back to the gold medal game, Rudy dunked all over Dwight and Marc exposed the US team’s deficiency in the post. They come over to the NBA and guess what – Rudy is still getting it done and Marc is the center of the future for Memphis. Calderon is still a top tier point guard and Pau is making the Lakers real again. The other guy from that team? Rubio? The one who forced Coach K to take Jason Kidd out the game – yeah, I think he’ll be pretty good. Why? Not because he got to be a 5th year senior and eat up undersized high school kids all day and not because he has the benefit of a highlight crazed hype machine, but because he’s already played the best players, the best athletes in the world and held his own.

    There have been a hundred kids like Wall, and there will be a hundred more. There will even be a few more over hyped euro kids as well, but the weight behind playing against the best basketball players in the world HAS to count for more than a jordan prospect game.

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  • #146098
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    MATA
    Participant

    my post was directed at poster “FAST fingers”.you eurodouchebag.

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  • #146111
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    bluedevils12
    Participant

    damn mata u didnt have to hurt lodzio like that haha!! and i agree wall will be great

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  • #146125
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    Lodzio20
    Participant

    Wall is skinny but he’s stronger than Rubio

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  • #146127
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    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    he has average athletic ability at best and no he isnt a better athlete then jaric..rubio barely can dunk and isnt that fast..what do you base rubio being so good on?..a couple olympic games and youtube highlights?…i play semi pro ball in europe and i can tell you the guards that he goes up against are d leauge 6th men at best..this season hes averaging 9.8 points and 5.7 reb on a team thats in 6th place..ive seen 10 games while playing in finland when we had to go to spain for some turney and each game he was beat constently by quicker guards and over powered..most of his fame has been from camps where he is playing aginst other euro kids his own age so my thing is wait and see when he gets to the leauge rather then say hes gonna be so good in the nba just because of highlights of him..by the way in olympic games he averaged 4.8 points and 3.0 ast

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  • #146144
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    mowesten
    Participant

    Do you know who is fourth in the NBA in assists right now?

    Jose Calderon. That’s right, Jose freaking Calderon. He is averaging 8.9 per game. Two OLD MEN are in the top five.

    Quite simply, true point guards that can dominate a game without jacking up retarded shots, play defense and understand when to pass and who to pass to are pretty rare. …

    That is why Derrick Rose went No. 1 last year, why John Wall is a candidate to go No. 1 next year and why Rubio, whenever he comes out, is going in the top three.

    Rubio often outplayed three Spain guards who are, or have, played in the NBA during the Olympics. He is 10 years younger than Calderon, if that puts it in perspective.

    I have asked this before: name another American guard, of the same age, who could have performed at that level on the world’s largest basketball stage. And before you say Brandon Jennings, remember, he is struggling mightly in an inferior European league, and he is a year older than Rubio.

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  • #146188
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    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    his olympic stat line

    Details
    Date Team Against Team MIN PTS 2FGP 3FGP FT RO RD RT AS PF BS ST
    8/10/2008 Spain Greece 13 7 1-2 1-2 2-2 0 1 1 1 2 1 0
    8/12/2008 Spain China 21 1 0-3 0-1 1-2 2 2 4 4 4 0 5
    8/14/2008 Spain Germany 13 7 3-5 0-2 1-1 2 3 5 3 3 0 2
    8/16/2008 Spain USA 18 8 0-3 1-1 5-6 1 2 3 3 1 0 3
    8/18/2008 Spain Angola 13 2 1-1 0-0 0-0 1 0 1 5 0 0 3
    8/20/2008 Spain Croatia 17 3 1-2 0-1 1-2 3 3 6 1 2 0 0
    8/22/2008 Spain Lithuania 24 4 0-2 0-4 4-6 1 5 6 4 2 0 1
    8/24/2008 Spain USA 29 6 1-2 0-1 4-4 1 5 6 3 3 0 3

    4.8 points 3ast..so how you figure he out played anyone…his season stats 9pts 5ast..neither is top in his leauge..so what are you talking about when you said who else can do that at the worlds highest stage 4.8pts and 3ast..yeah those are great numbers at the worlds higest stage…and jose being 4th means what exactly?..there are at least 10 point guards in the leauge right now who would get picked before him…the fact of the matter is rubio is a ok player..not a super star or great im waiting for one ounce of proff that says other wise….did i fail to mention that he also averages 3.4 turnovers a game???

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    • #146216
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      Lodzio20
      Participant

      I agree with Josh Huestis

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  • #146190
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    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    wait i stand corrected he is second in ast at 5.7 a game……and let me set the record straight..im not saying he will be nothing in the leauge im saying why is everyone jumping on the band wagon of a player who for one 99 percent of yall ( which i have 10 times from playing over seas and seeing my boy tarq who plays against him in the same leauge polaris world murica) have only seen highlights or some olympic games in which he was average at best. havent yall learned from the other euro highlights they show on draft night that makes the players look like the next this or the next that?…also for those who dont know..there are alot of players his age and younger playing on pro teams in europe but arent getting the love because the media is in love with rubio..once a player is picked to be the next then the hype trains begins and half of the people who live in the states and only seen highlights jump on saying…”oh wow hes gonna be the best ever” or because they hear one person say how good he is …but everyone seems to forget about the stats or the fact that 80 percent of the guards he has gone aginst ( tarq dean, chris thomas, clay tucker, tyrone ellis etc have clearly out played him..now if you want a real scouting report on him here it is… above average passer average speed for a point guard not that athletic pretty good shooter needs work on defense because of foot speed…there ya go also comes off the bench..not cuz hes like a jason terry 6th man either

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    • #146193
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      Mr. Basketball
      Participant

      lets see chris thomas is 26, rubio is 18 (bit of difference huh)

      o and his turnovers are a product of his injury.

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  • #146210
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    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    lets see chris thomas..maybe d leauge 7th man .and his injuryt has nothing to do with his turnovers..he average slighly higher turnovers last year..these turnovers havent just happened since the injury….wow ya;’ll really reaching as far as excuses..still waiting on some proof of greatness cuz so far..the games ive seen plus his stats dont show greatness

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  • #146341
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    KATASTROPHE
    Participant

    I have never seen Rubio play except for the Olympics and Huestis is sounding very convincing. Now im very intrested to see Rubio play in the league.

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    • #146392
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      paquichin
      Participant

      Josh, my friend, Dean, Thomas, Ellis or Tucker are the first option in attack of their temas… they are the scorers, the guys that shot it all… Rubio is a passing and stealer PG… not a scorer or shooter guy. And, of course, there aren´t lots of players of his age playing in Europe… maybe in Finland… but not in ACB, the best european national league, and the second best league of the world, after NBA.

      I say, Rubio is not going to be a top scorer, maybe he will not be an All star, maybe he will… it will depend on the team wich pick him and on his progression… but nowadays… he is a sure option as an starting PG if you have good shooters or pivots in your team… if you want him to score and pass and rebound… then forget him.

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      • #146409
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        KATASTROPHE
        Participant

        Paquichin im curious if ALL Rubio does is pass and play defense why would a team draft him in the lottery????

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        • #146413
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          paquichin
          Participant

          Katastrophe, my friend. I´m noy saying that he only can pass or defend… I tell you that he is as good as the best on that, and I´m speaking of pro players (not universitarians guys)… moreover… he can do a lot of things and he is improving his shot… although he will never be Rudy in the 3 point line. He is a PG, and his mission should be to make his team mates better… but that is something difficult to explain to some of you… you only look the athletic guys, who can jump, and dunk, and shot even the shoes… because of that the difference between NBA and FIBA basketball is lower and lower each day. There is more than be a strong guy to play basketball… there is more than shot all the balls to play basketball… you should know this.

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  • #146414
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    KATASTROPHE
    Participant

    Huh??? I only look at what? Actually im more impressed with players with high baskeball IQ and skill I am not as impressed with jumping and dunking I dont know where you got that from. Im just saying If you get drafted in the top 5 or the lottery chances are your team isnt that talented and you will be asked to be a “savior.” Furthermore I dont understand how he can pass better than Paul so he would be averaging more that 11 assist a game in the NBA do you know how high of a level you have to be playing at? There is a common misconception that Europeans are high IQ basketball guys that makes their team so much better and American players arent. But in fact most Amerincan players have high basketball IQ’s but are more athletic (you see you play a little diffrent when you are a superior athlete). Take any American starter and plug him on a FIBA roster and the team gets dramatically better. BTW I played point guard my whole life I understand what you mean by making your teamates better. Im assuming your are European cause you seem to believe in the sterotypes about American ball players. Thanks for the reply though…..

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  • #146425
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    DY_nasty
    Participant

    Wait, I’m confused. It looks to me like those numbers he put up in the olympics are pretty good. Especially as a 3rd or 4th option. Even more impressive as he’s easily the youngest and smallest guy on the court. Those two things, will change up as soon as he hits a bench and gets some NBA strength coaches.

    Nobody is going to draft Rubio based on his current level of play in the euroleagues, just like how no one would draft BJ Mullens based on his current level of production. But Rubio’s upside is absolutely ridiculous. John Wall is good as he is, is a known commodity. We see talents like that all the time here in the states but to deny that Rubio can be as good or even better given the fact that he’s played better competition his ENTIRE career is just hating in its purest form. Even Brandon Jenninigs didn’t put up great numbers when he started his eurocareer – and he was just another version of Wall from 2 years ago. Spain put a kid on their olympic team. That should say a little something.

    You say that the Euroleague is full of 6th man D-Leaguers and stuff – all the while knowing that the 12th man on a d-league roster is still a grade above any high school competition just due to the experience factor alone. Wall has never played a professional team’s defense or been game-planned against, Rubio has. Wall is older than his competition, Rubio isn’t. I can go on all day.

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  • #146441
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    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    all the euros play in that cmpetition ALL THERE LIVES so how come they arent all allstars when they come to the nba instead of these highschool kids?..for one most arent good enough and 2 the game is alot different and the competition is alot better..and the 12th man on the roster is not a grade above the top highschool players..just look at the first year stats in college of the highschool players aned most surpass the 12th mans college stats…as far as paquichn youre arguement mad sense to a point..those other guys are focal points of there teams but being at 2 of those games i saw first hand that they scored on rubio pretty easily because he seems to have problems with players of that athletic abily which is gonna get even worst int he nba because those guards are alot better then dean and thomas…..like i said before im not saying he wont eventually be good..i doubt great but i dont know the future..what i have a problem with is most of these guys saying how great hes gonna be off of just seeing a olympic game ( HE AVERAGED 4PTS 3AST IN THE OLYMPICS) or you tube highlights…as far as drafting off of potential and what a player will potentially do im picking wall and brandon jennings 10 times out of 10 just like last year or the year before i would have picked rose over rubio…most of yall dont understand how different the game is in europe then it is in the nba..alot of nba players go there and dont dominate because its awhole different game just like it is when they come over here..

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  • #146444
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    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    i have to dissagree with the put any american on a fiba team and they are better..i used to think the same thing before playing overseas and trust me alot of americans go over there and struggle ..alot even get cut..though there are some that make the team better but not all will…the game is just so different over there and if you are just a athlete that cant shot then chances are you are gonna get sent home..also if you go out jacking shots even if you are making most of them alot of teams will sit you down or send you home because youre not playing under the team concept…i agree with youre IQ comment most americans just dont use it because we can get by off of our athletic ability

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  • #146445
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    DY_nasty
    Participant

    And all I’m talking about is their level of comp. Wall gets to use superior athleticism to dominate kids that are getting fitted for their prom and Rubio plays against seasoned vets and Olympians (not to mention force Jason Kidd to take a seat). But okay… that just doesn’t mean anything.

    You put Rubio in an American High School and you think he’s not going to the Jordan Game too? Honestly?

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    • #146450
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      Stanford hoops
      Participant

      yeah he plays aginst seasoned euro vets…very very big difference then playing against nba vets if you put wall in the euro farm system at 14 then he would be talked about just like rubio and he force kidd to take a seat means nothing..just liek the you tube clip of some kid crossing up devin harris means nothing once again the olympics isnt the nba you cant judge a players nba potential by the olympics..if you did then arroyo would be great and patty mills would be a top 5 pick…rubio will get picked off of maybe potential but he doesnt have more potential then wall or jennings ..as far as him in the jordan game id say no because once again the euro style is alot different then american style basketball…he would be a all state player though

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  • #146449
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    KATASTROPHE
    Participant

    That makes sense Huestis. But what if you take the top 2 reserves on any team in the NBA, you dont think they can make a huge IMPACT on any overseas team? Jordan Framer, JR Smith, Birdman, Powe, Terry, Brad Mller, Landry, Spieghts, LouWill. Joe Smith, those are just random guys. But dont you think the average rotation NBA player can have success in the overseas? I may not know what I am talking about becasue I am not familiar with FIBA baskeball but I believe Talent is Talent and there is a reason why most players who dont cut it in the NBA go overseas to play basketball.

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  • #146452
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    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    some go over there and do pretty well..some dont…you look at josh childress..hes doing ok getting about 13pts 6 rebs a game before he got hurt..eventually they would be alot better but the first year or 2 is a struggle because the game and rules are so different..and the fact that 90 percent of the time the teams play zone..which is another thing i forgot to bring up about euro basketball..with at least 3 of rubios 5 ast a game comes from the drive and kick ..i know i sound like a rubio hater but im just saying the facts as i see them from watching him in whole games and not just highlights..on the flip side im not a scout and i could be wrong..maybe he will come in and be great from jump but from what ive seen i just dont see it….its funny because i used to say the same thing about sarunas jesacavic (i spelled it wrong)..played against him a coupel times and never could see the allure of him going to the nba and being great as many scouts said because of him getting player of the year in europe ( which by the way doesnt go to the best player 99percent of the time it goes to the best player on the top team)

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    • #146512
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      paquichin
      Participant

      Josh, 90% of the time play zone? Sure? ahahahahaha. That is not true… maybe 25%… and it depends on a lot of things…

      Moreover, that makes the game more interesting that give the ball to Kobe and let him one on one… you must understand that and in the NBA the zone should be allowed as soon as possible; that would be good for the players and for the coaches… they would have to use more his head and less his legs… they will grow a lot.

      You can´t say what will be a FIBA player in NBA or a NBA player in a good european league…

      Do you remember Bo Outlaw? He had a very long career… and here was cut in a team of the second division… For example, when Pau Gasol went to NBA, his numbers in europe weren´t as good as they were in his first year in Memphis… because in Barcelona he was not the first option in attack (Navarro, Bodiroga… I don´t remember all), he only was a young guy with a lot of potential… It depends on the kind of player and your “desire” of becoming a star; and Rubio is full of potential and he knows that he was born to play with the best… that´s more important than muscles…

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      • #146592
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        Stanford hoops
        Participant

        ummmm ive played 5 years overseas now and my brother played 10 before retireing..his best friend has played 14 years now and all of us say 90 percent or more of the time they play zone..so reguardless of youre opinion of if they play zone or not im telling you from 3 different player experience that 90 percent of the time zone is played..go to youre local gym during the offseas(summertime) and ask the guys how often the teams play zone ..matter of fact ask the guess who do the answer question part of nbadraft.net then get back to me when you get the answer

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        • #146593
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          Stanford hoops
          Participant

          personally i think ( ad i hear) that zone hadnt been allowed because it wouldnt be as exciting fans want to see more one on one and dunks..with zones u get less dunks and less show of athletisim…just my opnion…..as far as a bench man going overseas and being a star most of the time that isnt gonna happen unless that bench player is a very good shooter since hes faceing mostly zones..the american players that do pretty well over there are shooters..as far as bo outlaw that situation had more to do with not being paid then cut…alot of good players leave there because the teams over there either dont pay on time or dont pay at all alot of time..most of the teams over there make no profit in basketball..rubios team happens to be one that the owners have enough money to pay the players but rumor has it that they have been trying to shop his contract and they are willing to lower the asking price for whatever nba team drafts him. alos alot of time..actually most of the time the nab players or college players have a hard time in europe because the game is different..the rules are different and shooting alot is frowned upon

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  • #146533
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    KATASTROPHE
    Participant

    I curious if any high school kid phenonom like a John Wall from the STATES grew up overseas wouldnt they be speical too (i mean dont most young europeans who can play bball end up playing professionally) The reason why zone isnt effective in the NBA is becasue of the athleticism of NBA players (BBALL IQ: when you play zone you are exposed on the offensive glass and also a team with good three point shooters would abuse a zone)….. Also shooters in the NBA are underrated.. Paquichin I respect your opinion and its is intresting to read something from a Spainish perspective but do you really believe that the average NBA bench player cant be a star in europe??? And im curious how old was Outlaw when he was cut from the second division?

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  • #146537
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    DY_nasty
    Participant

    Uh… no, perimeter defense is just hard to play now because of how things are officiated. Stern changed the rules up to let offenses open up a lot more. Hell, Tracy McGrady has been quoted saying he didn’t even know how to attack a zone defense while he was back in Orlando.

    I don’t think you *need* a high basketball IQ to be a successful NBA player for a while, but in order to have extended success you MUST have it.

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  • #146538
    AvatarAvatar
    KATASTROPHE
    Participant

    Yeah I understand what your sayin DY, but dont you think there is a reason why zone isnt played as much in the NBA. Your right there are NBA players that cant attack the zone but when you play zone you are vunerable on the offensive glass and plus players have the overall (basketball) instinct on how to attack a zone. Your right about the overrall IQ but to be a superstar or even an all star it is required… Also I was a big fan of the handcheck rule.

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  • #146604
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    Masrock

    Just a couple of weeks ago, every one was in love with him. Anyways, I would take John Wall over Rubio, but not by a lot. Wall is more of the physical package I look for in a player. Plus, he doesn’t look like Harry Potter.

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  • #146615
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    dirtyd4545
    Participant

    Im going with Wall. The Euroleague isn’t the NBA; lack of athletic ability does’t even matter. Wall has an NBA style of game. If anything, it will take Rubio longer to adjust to the NBA game then Wall.

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    • #146618
      AvatarAvatar
      paquichin
      Participant

      Hi, guys, it is a pleasure to dicuss with you both and see your different opinions… First of all… sorry for my english, I know it is horrible.

      Well, about Bo Outlaw… he played for the second team of Estudiantes (a team of ACB league) when he was very young…; When one american of the first team got injured he was past to the first team and he seems to be a complete disaster… he couldn´t shot, pass, score… he only was a good athlete… and that is very little for an american overseas… for example, I think that Dennis Rodman would have been cut in 99% of the european top teams… That´s what I meant before. Of course, here there are lot´s of players who only can rebound or block… but american are expected to be important players in the scoring; especially 15 years ago, when the difference between american and european players was bigger. In NBA you have a lot of examples of “especialist” wich couldn´t play in Europe.

      Turning to Ricky. He is only 18, and he is playing as a proffesional… as a top player in ACB, euroleague and olimpics… Do you really think that is a political question? Of corse he is a mediatic guy… he played in ACB at 14 (the youngest in the history of our league) but the coaches that put him there aren´t idiots…

      I haven´t see Wall, but you can´t say that Rubio won´t be a good NBA player because of his athletism… he is quicker than Calderon… taller… better deffense… similar pass… less shot… and 18… he is a “crack” as we say here… and he is called to be one of the best european PG of the history.

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  • #146629
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    KATASTROPHE
    Participant

    So in Europe there arent specialists at positions thats intresting…… I believe thats got to be becasue the level of athletcism isnt there. And about Rubio if the game is so MUCH diffrent and his style is European then I feel that it would be hard to pick him in the top 5, cause from what you guys are telling me the game is WAY diffrent.

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    • #146635
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      paquichin
      Participant

      In Europe there are specialist, of course, but you know that you only can sign 2 non-european players, and they ussually try to get players with made the difference in offensive game… I don´t know if you understand me… I mean that american players in Europe must do more things that being good athletics. The teams have specialists (deffensive, rebounds) but they are local or european players, they don´t pay a lot for only muscles…

      There are lots of players than here, in Europe, would be “one more bench player” (even europeans like Turiaf) that in NBA have a good career making one or two things only. But they are in the correct place in the correct moment…

      You think that any bench player of NBA would be an star in Europe, and I say you that no. Some NBA teams wouldn´t get to euroleague final four; or win Spanish ACB.

      About picjing Rubio in top 5. I said that if you are expecting a franchise player from the first year as Lebron or Melo… then forget him… but it is quite better than any player of his age, and can be a starter in NBA with blinded eyes.

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      • #146680
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        KATASTROPHE
        Participant

        That makes thing a little clearer Paquichin… I didnt know only a certain amount of American players can play for a team that is intresting.. You think that the Grizzles or Thunder couldnt beat a top european team. What do you think huestis??? When you refered to typical NBA bench player being a star, I mean a rotation player like a Jason Terry or a Jason Maxiell (sixth or seventh rotation man). I dunno I not that sold on Rubio I gotta see if his game can translate to the American game.

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        • #146750
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          paquichin
          Participant

          Josh, my friend, now (at least in Spain) only two non-european players can play (if they have passport of any european country then they can be more, in Spain each team must have at least 5 players who can play for Spanish National Team in order to protect the progression of young spanish players but that is the only limitation for europeans). Maybe could be three in other countries, and in Spain in season 92/93… but it was changed years ago. I don´t know if in euroleague there is any limitation, I think there isn´t. However there are many players witch take passports of differente (and rare) countries: Shammond Williams (Georgia -former URSS), Arriel McDonald (Slovenia), Jeremiah Massey (Macedonia), Holden (Rusia)… even play for their new national temas… hehehehe… they can get better contracts if they have these passports.

          Kata, of course, Memphis or Thunder could beat top european teams in some games… but I don´t think they would win ACB League (Spain) neither of course Euroleague, maybe with a lot of time and training in the european way of playing… they could try it, because they have potential… but nowadays they are not prepared for winning the top european competitions by far.

          I think that a player like Jason Terry probably would be an star here, he can score a lot and his game could translate to europe without difficult.

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  • #146639
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    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    i agree with the expecting americns to score when they come over there..i was told that from jump in my first season…but on the 2 american thing its actully three now and you can have more than three if the 4th,5th etc has a passport for that country …im not saying rubio isnt gonna be good..im saying you cant say hes gonna be great or actually good because hes playing a different type of basketball and against different type of players then he will be playing in the nba..my thing is everyone that are talking about how great hes gonna be even though he hasnt played nba type ball/rules/and against the nba starter type players….as far as taking him over any player his age…ummmm no i wouldnt take him first..actually at this stage age shouldnt really matter except when looking at potential

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  • #146770
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    praimal
    Participant

    rubio or wall?

    the cuestion should be rubio or blake? even more the cuestion should be what can i have in a trade for my pg once i´ve got ricky 😉
    he,s the greatest talent in a pg for years.

    people still thinking that play against no pro kids of 20 years old its the same of play against mens. i see ricky playing at 15 and its like a men against kids.

    but lets continue with bad picks on the draft.we all see a lot of them,howard and gasol dont get the nº1!!!!!!!

    not every europen player it´s going to be like darko

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  • #146783
    AvatarAvatar
    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    actually youre probably right about that..i didnt take into account that some countries may only still allow 2 players..most allow three though..and yeah jason terry and maxiell would do very well over there because there games translate over there..also okc could beat some top teams but they would also get beat..alot would depend on which set of rules would be used in the game also. and yeah not all euros will be darko but most arent future super stars…like ive said time and time again rubio possibly could become a good player but if yall expect him to come into the nba and just shine then yall have really lost youre mind

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  • #146832
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    DY_nasty
    Participant

    Kings would probably go winless overseas…

    I still think that the advantage of playing against superior competition for ones whole career has to be a an incredible advantage for Rubio though. He’s been playing against guys who are bigger and stronger than him since he picked up the ball. Most guys over here usually have it the other way around where they’re faster and stronger than their competition – then when they get to the NBA they’re surprised and stunned when they discover their athleticism can’t bail them out any more. My money is still on Rubio.

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  • #147029
    AvatarAvatar
    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    all the euros play against older and stronger players there whole life..they start out at a young age..rubio isnt the only euro that has been doing this..every euro in the leauge has done it growing up unless they went to college..they usually start playing on the pro teams by 15-16 years old..most play int he second division or b leauges and others who are taller and more advance play on the a team or first division..they usually dont get awhole lot of time but some do..just look at the hoop summit where the hs players play aginst the best young euros in the world..all of the world team plays play professional basketball …you never wonder why there arent alot of euros playing college basketball..the ones that are went to hs in the states the others cant because they have been playing proball and getting paid to play…thats one miscopnception alot of americans dont know is that these kids in euro start playing pro very early..its like a farm system they grow up in the teams system

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  • #147085
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    praimal
    Participant

    it´s true that here in europe players start pro carrer earlier. but normaly in 2 division teams or mid level teams like scola or calderon did and some others who are playing in a top level teams really young like pau,rudy or jasaitis,but ricky its a not seen case.he play ends of games in a spanish cup finals and euro games at 17 and became the 2th best defender in euroleague at the same age,just after diamantidis who have refferes respect(we all know how esay it´s call the foul on the rokkie) and play in a greek team.if you anytime have the chance to see a basketball game in grece,it´s fun and whit a lot of talent,but some players make look laimbeer a sister of charity in comparision.

    the only thing that rubio needs to learn in the nba it´s his teammates,once he know how they play it´s piece of cake.

    the rest it´about time,he 18 and he can improve a lot

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  • #147204
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    Stanford hoops
    Participant

    yeah the refs seem to be half blind in euro becuase alot of times fouls arent called so some players look like better defenders then they really are

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