if both where in this years draft, who would you take?
who has more upside?
who'll be the greater player in your opinions?
Rubio, lots of players can score but only a very few can pass like rubio
I want to say wall but at the same time idk. Wall has amzing upside. I kno he lightning quick and is super athletic and a little flashy. I think wall can turn out like a derrick rose. His height and build are perfect to be a dominant guard in the nBA. Rubio showed me how skilled he ws for his age and played well against the americans. But that was my only time seeing him play and i cant go say he the best pg based off one game. Im going with wall
I'm going to go with John Wall, because of his athleticism. I have to admit, I havent seen Rubio play much.
I don't like Rubio...His shoot is terrible...everybody in NBA can block him, he has average speed, average athleticism.He's only good passer...
His shoot isn't very good but isn't terrible.
He has got only 18 years old andhe can work in his shoot..
He's only a good passer? He is a good defender too, he has got a very longs arms. He is able to steal a lot. If he improves his shot he'll be a great player.
Andre Miller has an horrible shot and is a great pg, Calderon, when he arrived to NBA, he didn´t shoot very well, and now is one of the best three pointers
What......... How do you know everyone in the NBA can block him he is pretty tall for a of 6"3 . He gets good elevation on his jumper and a nice arch.( 1 problem maybe he tends to jump forward on his three's. However his shot has developed well over the last year and I reckon it can get good over his career in the NBA
If you need help now take Rubio. If you want a PG for the future take Wall.
Rubio. He like Jason Kidd or a Steve Nash
He is also developed and could be a Nba starter on most teams now.
i read on team usa's site that wall measured at at 6-1.
I watch Nike Hoops summit game and John Wall is incredible athletic...im very impressed...i watch Rubio in Euroleague and he's nothing special...he never be an allstar. I TAKE JOHN WALL
Oh... I thought that we were speaking about basketball... ahahahaha
¿Is U. Bolt going to declare...? This would be a good pick... wouldn´t he?
Moreover... if you compares nike hoops with euroleague... ahahahahahaha
That´s the same that compares a ferrari with a mountain bike
I think Wall would be better in Euroleague than &$#%#&@! Rubio!!!
I think that to be important in Euroleague is very difficult even for a professional...
Childress is only "one more player" in Olimpiakos, for example.
The players that come from NCAA can´t be important players in the big teams... they have to learn to play real basketball... and Ricky made this way at 15...
I just don't get it. When most prospects were trying out for AAU teams or eating up undersized scrubs in high school, this guy was playing playing pro in Europe. When other guys were getting dismissed by big name schools because of their handlers, Rubio was picking up Deron Williams at halfcourt in the gold medal game. And then when the rest of the guys you compare him to get benched in big games because of bad defense and poor shot selection, Rubio goes out and defensive player accolades and vastly improves his 3 point shooting. So whats left to hate on other than the fact that he's a Euroleaguer? The hate train was bearing down on Rudy Fernandez just as hard last year at draft time but he's more than proven that he belongs in the NBA.
On the other hand you see guys like Wall and Jennings every year. How do they look any different than Louis Williams?
all the euros gro up playing pro basketball..yet you dont see them all dominating in the nba..rudy fernandez is older and more developed then rubio plus rubio doesnt even dominate in the euro leauge..have you even watched him play ...olympics dont translate to the nba as ive said many times just look at carlos arryo..if we are comparing euro to aau highschool kids lets make a comparison and see which ones do more int he nba
thats true wat the guy above me jus said. Louis Williams was highly touted much like bassy telfair. Loook at those guys now. role players if u want 2 call them that. ANd as ofr rudy i love his game. that guy has a bright future i think in the league. could be like a manu
they're idiots with little knowledge of basketball.don't waste your time with them.
bdevils12, i don't think louis williams or telfair where as good as wall.he's got ridiculous natural gifts that telfair did not.he can jump out the gym and out run anybody.he's raw, but once he gets that polish, he's going to be great.
way to pick on the dude for not typing well....class act you are my friend.
"way to pick on the dude for not typing well....class act you are my friend."
sorry, my english is very poor... and I don´t understand your words... could you tell me the same with another words? Thanks, guy
I would still pick Wall. He goes hard on defense and you could easily see that in the summit game. I wish Rubio had been in it though, that would have made it more interesting. Wall is still the best though, most talent of any pg this decade.
rubio is like j-kidd. I doubt he'll ever become a prolific scorer, but can do a bit of everything else. He looks better than nash since he doesn't seem to be a big defensive liability. John wall has a big scoring potential.
I say pick rubio. John wall is still so dang skinny and he's been depending a lot on his athletism.
they're both skinny, fast.
"He looks better than nash" What!?!? Rubio will be lucky if he has a Steve Nash impact on the league. Nash is one the greatest shooters and passers of all time. I believe before a player enters the league people have a tendency to overrate them before they even play a single season. I have only seen Rubio play in the Olympics and he looked like a decent player but the Olympics is a diffrent animal than the NBA (plus Patty Mills had a good game aganist the USA team) In the NBA you get scouted (they take away your strenghts and expose your weakness)
But also Wall rocks!
I don't think Carlos Arroyo was ever thought to have the passing ability or even the same physical tools as Rubio. He was quick and could score, that was about it. You're never going to say that Olympic/Euroleague ball is an equivalent to the NBA but it still acts as a better measuring tool than most.
The athletic bar is a set a lot lower overseas. Being an NBA caliber athlete is not a requirement to be a great euro player and thus, a lot of guys over there succeed with just being average athletes. However, some guys do have the athleticism of NBA players - and those are usually the ones to succeed here. I think everyone can see that Rubio is more athletic than guys like Marko Jaric and Ukic - so why even begin to compare him to those guys?
Going back to the gold medal game, Rudy dunked all over Dwight and Marc exposed the US team's deficiency in the post. They come over to the NBA and guess what - Rudy is still getting it done and Marc is the center of the future for Memphis. Calderon is still a top tier point guard and Pau is making the Lakers real again. The other guy from that team? Rubio? The one who forced Coach K to take Jason Kidd out the game - yeah, I think he'll be pretty good. Why? Not because he got to be a 5th year senior and eat up undersized high school kids all day and not because he has the benefit of a highlight crazed hype machine, but because he's already played the best players, the best athletes in the world and held his own.
There have been a hundred kids like Wall, and there will be a hundred more. There will even be a few more over hyped euro kids as well, but the weight behind playing against the best basketball players in the world HAS to count for more than a jordan prospect game.
my post was directed at poster "FAST fingers".you eurodouchebag.
damn mata u didnt have to hurt lodzio like that haha!! and i agree wall will be great
Wall is skinny but he's stronger than Rubio
he has average athletic ability at best and no he isnt a better athlete then jaric..rubio barely can dunk and isnt that fast..what do you base rubio being so good on?..a couple olympic games and youtube highlights?...i play semi pro ball in europe and i can tell you the guards that he goes up against are d leauge 6th men at best..this season hes averaging 9.8 points and 5.7 reb on a team thats in 6th place..ive seen 10 games while playing in finland when we had to go to spain for some turney and each game he was beat constently by quicker guards and over powered..most of his fame has been from camps where he is playing aginst other euro kids his own age so my thing is wait and see when he gets to the leauge rather then say hes gonna be so good in the nba just because of highlights of him..by the way in olympic games he averaged 4.8 points and 3.0 ast
Do you know who is fourth in the NBA in assists right now?
Jose Calderon. That's right, Jose freaking Calderon. He is averaging 8.9 per game. Two OLD MEN are in the top five.
Quite simply, true point guards that can dominate a game without jacking up retarded shots, play defense and understand when to pass and who to pass to are pretty rare. ...
That is why Derrick Rose went No. 1 last year, why John Wall is a candidate to go No. 1 next year and why Rubio, whenever he comes out, is going in the top three.
Rubio often outplayed three Spain guards who are, or have, played in the NBA during the Olympics. He is 10 years younger than Calderon, if that puts it in perspective.
I have asked this before: name another American guard, of the same age, who could have performed at that level on the world's largest basketball stage. And before you say Brandon Jennings, remember, he is struggling mightly in an inferior European league, and he is a year older than Rubio.
his olympic stat line
Date Team Against Team MIN PTS 2FGP 3FGP FT RO RD RT AS PF BS ST
8/10/2008 Spain Greece 13 7 1-2 1-2 2-2 0 1 1 1 2 1 0
8/12/2008 Spain China 21 1 0-3 0-1 1-2 2 2 4 4 4 0 5
8/14/2008 Spain Germany 13 7 3-5 0-2 1-1 2 3 5 3 3 0 2
8/16/2008 Spain USA 18 8 0-3 1-1 5-6 1 2 3 3 1 0 3
8/18/2008 Spain Angola 13 2 1-1 0-0 0-0 1 0 1 5 0 0 3
8/20/2008 Spain Croatia 17 3 1-2 0-1 1-2 3 3 6 1 2 0 0
8/22/2008 Spain Lithuania 24 4 0-2 0-4 4-6 1 5 6 4 2 0 1
8/24/2008 Spain USA 29 6 1-2 0-1 4-4 1 5 6 3 3 0 3
4.8 points 3ast..so how you figure he out played anyone...his season stats 9pts 5ast..neither is top in his leauge..so what are you talking about when you said who else can do that at the worlds highest stage 4.8pts and 3ast..yeah those are great numbers at the worlds higest stage...and jose being 4th means what exactly?..there are at least 10 point guards in the leauge right now who would get picked before him...the fact of the matter is rubio is a ok player..not a super star or great im waiting for one ounce of proff that says other wise....did i fail to mention that he also averages 3.4 turnovers a game???
I agree with Josh Huestis
wait i stand corrected he is second in ast at 5.7 a game......and let me set the record straight..im not saying he will be nothing in the leauge im saying why is everyone jumping on the band wagon of a player who for one 99 percent of yall ( which i have 10 times from playing over seas and seeing my boy tarq who plays against him in the same leauge polaris world murica) have only seen highlights or some olympic games in which he was average at best. havent yall learned from the other euro highlights they show on draft night that makes the players look like the next this or the next that?...also for those who dont know..there are alot of players his age and younger playing on pro teams in europe but arent getting the love because the media is in love with rubio..once a player is picked to be the next then the hype trains begins and half of the people who live in the states and only seen highlights jump on saying..."oh wow hes gonna be the best ever" or because they hear one person say how good he is ...but everyone seems to forget about the stats or the fact that 80 percent of the guards he has gone aginst ( tarq dean, chris thomas, clay tucker, tyrone ellis etc have clearly out played him..now if you want a real scouting report on him here it is... above average passer average speed for a point guard not that athletic pretty good shooter needs work on defense because of foot speed...there ya go also comes off the bench..not cuz hes like a jason terry 6th man either
lets see chris thomas is 26, rubio is 18 (bit of difference huh)
o and his turnovers are a product of his injury.
lets see chris thomas..maybe d leauge 7th man .and his injuryt has nothing to do with his turnovers..he average slighly higher turnovers last year..these turnovers havent just happened since the injury....wow ya;'ll really reaching as far as excuses..still waiting on some proof of greatness cuz so far..the games ive seen plus his stats dont show greatness
I have never seen Rubio play except for the Olympics and Huestis is sounding very convincing. Now im very intrested to see Rubio play in the league.
Josh, my friend, Dean, Thomas, Ellis or Tucker are the first option in attack of their temas... they are the scorers, the guys that shot it all... Rubio is a passing and stealer PG... not a scorer or shooter guy. And, of course, there aren´t lots of players of his age playing in Europe... maybe in Finland... but not in ACB, the best european national league, and the second best league of the world, after NBA.
I say, Rubio is not going to be a top scorer, maybe he will not be an All star, maybe he will... it will depend on the team wich pick him and on his progression... but nowadays... he is a sure option as an starting PG if you have good shooters or pivots in your team... if you want him to score and pass and rebound... then forget him.
Paquichin im curious if ALL Rubio does is pass and play defense why would a team draft him in the lottery????
Katastrophe, my friend. I´m noy saying that he only can pass or defend... I tell you that he is as good as the best on that, and I´m speaking of pro players (not universitarians guys)... moreover... he can do a lot of things and he is improving his shot... although he will never be Rudy in the 3 point line. He is a PG, and his mission should be to make his team mates better... but that is something difficult to explain to some of you... you only look the athletic guys, who can jump, and dunk, and shot even the shoes... because of that the difference between NBA and FIBA basketball is lower and lower each day. There is more than be a strong guy to play basketball... there is more than shot all the balls to play basketball... you should know this.
Huh??? I only look at what? Actually im more impressed with players with high baskeball IQ and skill I am not as impressed with jumping and dunking I dont know where you got that from. Im just saying If you get drafted in the top 5 or the lottery chances are your team isnt that talented and you will be asked to be a "savior." Furthermore I dont understand how he can pass better than Paul so he would be averaging more that 11 assist a game in the NBA do you know how high of a level you have to be playing at? There is a common misconception that Europeans are high IQ basketball guys that makes their team so much better and American players arent. But in fact most Amerincan players have high basketball IQ's but are more athletic (you see you play a little diffrent when you are a superior athlete). Take any American starter and plug him on a FIBA roster and the team gets dramatically better. BTW I played point guard my whole life I understand what you mean by making your teamates better. Im assuming your are European cause you seem to believe in the sterotypes about American ball players. Thanks for the reply though.....
Wait, I'm confused. It looks to me like those numbers he put up in the olympics are pretty good. Especially as a 3rd or 4th option. Even more impressive as he's easily the youngest and smallest guy on the court. Those two things, will change up as soon as he hits a bench and gets some NBA strength coaches.
Nobody is going to draft Rubio based on his current level of play in the euroleagues, just like how no one would draft BJ Mullens based on his current level of production. But Rubio's upside is absolutely ridiculous. John Wall is good as he is, is a known commodity. We see talents like that all the time here in the states but to deny that Rubio can be as good or even better given the fact that he's played better competition his ENTIRE career is just hating in its purest form. Even Brandon Jenninigs didn't put up great numbers when he started his eurocareer - and he was just another version of Wall from 2 years ago. Spain put a kid on their olympic team. That should say a little something.
You say that the Euroleague is full of 6th man D-Leaguers and stuff - all the while knowing that the 12th man on a d-league roster is still a grade above any high school competition just due to the experience factor alone. Wall has never played a professional team's defense or been game-planned against, Rubio has. Wall is older than his competition, Rubio isn't. I can go on all day.
all the euros play in that cmpetition ALL THERE LIVES so how come they arent all allstars when they come to the nba instead of these highschool kids?..for one most arent good enough and 2 the game is alot different and the competition is alot better..and the 12th man on the roster is not a grade above the top highschool players..just look at the first year stats in college of the highschool players aned most surpass the 12th mans college stats...as far as paquichn youre arguement mad sense to a point..those other guys are focal points of there teams but being at 2 of those games i saw first hand that they scored on rubio pretty easily because he seems to have problems with players of that athletic abily which is gonna get even worst int he nba because those guards are alot better then dean and thomas.....like i said before im not saying he wont eventually be good..i doubt great but i dont know the future..what i have a problem with is most of these guys saying how great hes gonna be off of just seeing a olympic game ( HE AVERAGED 4PTS 3AST IN THE OLYMPICS) or you tube highlights...as far as drafting off of potential and what a player will potentially do im picking wall and brandon jennings 10 times out of 10 just like last year or the year before i would have picked rose over rubio...most of yall dont understand how different the game is in europe then it is in the nba..alot of nba players go there and dont dominate because its awhole different game just like it is when they come over here..
i have to dissagree with the put any american on a fiba team and they are better..i used to think the same thing before playing overseas and trust me alot of americans go over there and struggle ..alot even get cut..though there are some that make the team better but not all will...the game is just so different over there and if you are just a athlete that cant shot then chances are you are gonna get sent home..also if you go out jacking shots even if you are making most of them alot of teams will sit you down or send you home because youre not playing under the team concept...i agree with youre IQ comment most americans just dont use it because we can get by off of our athletic ability
And all I'm talking about is their level of comp. Wall gets to use superior athleticism to dominate kids that are getting fitted for their prom and Rubio plays against seasoned vets and Olympians (not to mention force Jason Kidd to take a seat). But okay... that just doesn't mean anything.
You put Rubio in an American High School and you think he's not going to the Jordan Game too? Honestly?
yeah he plays aginst seasoned euro vets...very very big difference then playing against nba vets if you put wall in the euro farm system at 14 then he would be talked about just like rubio and he force kidd to take a seat means nothing..just liek the you tube clip of some kid crossing up devin harris means nothing once again the olympics isnt the nba you cant judge a players nba potential by the olympics..if you did then arroyo would be great and patty mills would be a top 5 pick...rubio will get picked off of maybe potential but he doesnt have more potential then wall or jennings ..as far as him in the jordan game id say no because once again the euro style is alot different then american style basketball...he would be a all state player though
That makes sense Huestis. But what if you take the top 2 reserves on any team in the NBA, you dont think they can make a huge IMPACT on any overseas team? Jordan Framer, JR Smith, Birdman, Powe, Terry, Brad Mller, Landry, Spieghts, LouWill. Joe Smith, those are just random guys. But dont you think the average rotation NBA player can have success in the overseas? I may not know what I am talking about becasue I am not familiar with FIBA baskeball but I believe Talent is Talent and there is a reason why most players who dont cut it in the NBA go overseas to play basketball.
some go over there and do pretty well..some dont...you look at josh childress..hes doing ok getting about 13pts 6 rebs a game before he got hurt..eventually they would be alot better but the first year or 2 is a struggle because the game and rules are so different..and the fact that 90 percent of the time the teams play zone..which is another thing i forgot to bring up about euro basketball..with at least 3 of rubios 5 ast a game comes from the drive and kick ..i know i sound like a rubio hater but im just saying the facts as i see them from watching him in whole games and not just highlights..on the flip side im not a scout and i could be wrong..maybe he will come in and be great from jump but from what ive seen i just dont see it....its funny because i used to say the same thing about sarunas jesacavic (i spelled it wrong)..played against him a coupel times and never could see the allure of him going to the nba and being great as many scouts said because of him getting player of the year in europe ( which by the way doesnt go to the best player 99percent of the time it goes to the best player on the top team)
Josh, 90% of the time play zone? Sure? ahahahahaha. That is not true... maybe 25%... and it depends on a lot of things...
Moreover, that makes the game more interesting that give the ball to Kobe and let him one on one... you must understand that and in the NBA the zone should be allowed as soon as possible; that would be good for the players and for the coaches... they would have to use more his head and less his legs... they will grow a lot.
You can´t say what will be a FIBA player in NBA or a NBA player in a good european league...
Do you remember Bo Outlaw? He had a very long career... and here was cut in a team of the second division... For example, when Pau Gasol went to NBA, his numbers in europe weren´t as good as they were in his first year in Memphis... because in Barcelona he was not the first option in attack (Navarro, Bodiroga... I don´t remember all), he only was a young guy with a lot of potential... It depends on the kind of player and your "desire" of becoming a star; and Rubio is full of potential and he knows that he was born to play with the best... that´s more important than muscles...
ummmm ive played 5 years overseas now and my brother played 10 before retireing..his best friend has played 14 years now and all of us say 90 percent or more of the time they play zone..so reguardless of youre opinion of if they play zone or not im telling you from 3 different player experience that 90 percent of the time zone is played..go to youre local gym during the offseas(summertime) and ask the guys how often the teams play zone ..matter of fact ask the guess who do the answer question part of nbadraft.net then get back to me when you get the answer