[BrentSuriaga01Participant]

Ben Simmons-Donovan Mitchell going back and forth has been entertaining. I’m curious what’s gonna happen on the next few days oand how this "beef" escalates.

My personal choice is Simmons though.

 

[BeastMode716Participant]

 That Simmons had a "Red Shirt" is Hysterical b/c all you have to do is go back just 7 months to October when Everyone was talking about the Vegas Odds for Rookie of the Year voting after Lonzo Ball’s red hot Summer League performance 

Just about NO ONE in the National Media chose Ben Simmons (or Micthell) but their reasoning for Not picking Simmons was Curious

I’ll paraphrase: "Ben Simmons suffered a Jones Fracture last September & that means Simmons broken foot prevented him from Training, Practicing or Playing w/ teammates from October 2016 until the Late Summer of 2017. We know this from the team that his Foot did not heal & they would Not let jhim do Anything b/c the Doctors wanted to give him as Much extra time as they could for that Union to form in the Bones that fractured. So Simmons wil be SO far behind it will be close to January before he shakes the rust off. Forget the fact that he has no jump shot – No Players EVER get Better by NOT playing for 10 months" 

These talking heads gave the Same answer for why they Laughed when anyone asked if Phila would make the playoffs & they scoffed at the Vegas over / under for the Sixers win total 

"The Sixers have a Rookie playing the Toughest position in the NBA & he’s coming off a Serious foot injury where he could Not dribble a basketball for almost a full year, could Not play at all w/ his teammates to develop consistency but we’re supposed to believe a Rookie pg who can;t shoot is going to just walk into the NBA & be the quarterback of the team from the PG position & lead a Lottery team to the Playoffs???" 

Again when NBA fans Voted for Simmons to play in the ALL Star game but he was denied by Coaches & Media 

"Rookies don’t play in the All Star game" we were told Over & Over again by Media members & ex players (I believe they also yell Get OFf My Lawn!) But I find it curious that Simmons was Every bit a Rookie concerning the ALL Star game but he’s NOT a Rookie concerning the ROY award??? 

Now I KNOW you guys remember ALL of these points b/c we talked about ALL of them Extensively on this site – The Lazy Nat’l Media does this ALL the time 

It’s called "Moving the Goal Posts" and I call BULL ISH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I agree the whole "Simmons is not a rookie" thing is ridiculous and mostly just being repeated by people who are not able to make thier own opinions and Simmons haters or supporters off other fanbases (mostly Mitchell) but Simmons wasnt out from October 2016 to late Summer 2017. He said himself he felt he was ready to play real games after the 2017 allstar break but the 76ers shut him down. So during that time he would defenitely be able to do some sort of training.

[Snatalini247Participant]

I like how no one brought this up when Blake Griffin was a rookie… 

[CynthiaParticipant]

Mitchell was wearing a hoodie with the definition of Rookie on it, as if it’s supposed to help his case.

Rookie: An athlete, playing in his or her first season, as a member of a professional sports team.

Keyword there is playing, Ben Simmons did not play last year. This is in fact Ben Simmons first season playing.

[benny15Participant]

A donovan supporter might say that the key word/s are first or first season and not play

Based on that interpretation, what happened to simmons this current season is:

 

 An athlete (ben), playing in his second season as a member of a professional sports team

 

This is so trivial though and all in just good fun between these 2 young stars of the league. Mitchell’s words tell that in the end of the day, the award is just superficial to him and that team success is what really matters. And evwn though i havent heared simillar words from simmons, i wouldnt be surprised if he has the exact same sentiments on the matter

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Lames can still have money. Mitchell is a grown man making a hoodie for Simmons. Im not a fan of his. Simmons wants to be great, seems like Mitchell salty haha. Ben is the ROTY

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 I agree with Mitchell. Simmons shouldnt be considered as a rookie. But as it is now. I will take simmons all day.

[timinator1Participant]

As the rules stand, Simmons is technically a rookie. But I think we all know that the long held definition of "rookie" as not in the league, now in the league. Simmons was in practices with the 76ers for months last year, plus weight training, nutrition, etc. Because of these "redshirt" years Philly has implemented, the criteria is becoming blurred, and expect to see a rule change within 2 years. 

[nitestalParticipant]

 I think Simmons wins ROTY. As a Jazz fan, I’d be happy for Mitchell to win it, but I’d much much rather see the Jazz do well in the playoffs. I mean common, the Jazz were staring at the lottery in January, then they go 29-5 over their last 34 games. It’s been a crazy ride. Cant wait to see the future unfolded.

[weballin.netParticipant]

To both of them. Both have been good and qualified their teams for the playoffs.

They are different type of player who each deserves the trophy.

 

[BeastMode716Participant]

 Based on Merit but make THAT argument 

Stop w/ this cowardly "Red Shirt" argument b/c it’s clearly a narrative pushed by some people  w/ an agenda who are scraping the bottom of the barrell for an angle to swipe this award from Simmons otherwise they themselves would make an argument based on Facts & Statistics 

 

 

 

 

[ropeParticipant]

 My beef is we went through big chunks of the mock draft season with Mitchell slotted to the Pistons.  They took Kennard.  Brilliant move.  

I think Simmons is ROY.  

I also think these awards should only be voted on by players, coaches and GMs.  My guess is they’d take Simmons, too

 

 

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 I love Mitchell. I am so impressed. One of the best rookies in awhile. But i also think it Should be Simmons.  (Or co)

[Bird_YearsParticipant]

 I don’t know why the co-rookie of the year idea isn’t getting more press. Makes too much sense. Both players balling out on winning teams. Both would be easy all-stars if they were a tiny bit more efficient

Previous co-rookies were Jason Kidd / Grant Hill in 1995 and Elton Brand / Steve Francis in 2000. Then going wayyyyy back Dave Cowens shared it with Geoff Petrie in ’71. Decent number of precedents

Interestingly:

Grant Hill put up 19.9 pts, 6.4 boards and 5.0 assists with 54% true shooting % and 0.097 WS/48 and the Pistons had a losing season

Jason Kidd averaged 11.7 pts 5.4 boards and 7.7 assists with only a 47% true shooting % and 0.066 WS on a losing Dallas team

These pale in comparison to the efficiency and winning that both Simmons and Mitchell are putting up

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[220Participant]

I think the co-rookie of the year idea isn’t being talked about because no one can vote for a tie. The voters have to choose one player to win the award. A co-rookie of the year could happen, but they’d have to be tied in points when the vote is made.

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Simmons is not a Rookie! IF you get Held back a Year in Highschool should you be Elgible for class honors the next???

[220Participant]

 Yeah and if you get redshirted in college you still have 4 years of eligibility.

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Knowingly agreeing to redshirt is different from being forced to sit out of action for whatever reason.

A redshirt player knows they need that extra time to develop and get better. Bad analogy

 

[220Participant]

There isn’t a true sports equivalent of what happened with Ben Simmons, but redshirting is as close as that gets. 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 I don’t see how?? Ben Simmons didnt sign a contract to knowingly get injured and sit out his rookie season. But it happened??? And when you got a player like Donaven Mitchell who has been balling out and seeing success individually as well for his team who is actually apart of this draft class! It would be ashamed to give it to somebody who should/would have won it the previous year. 

Ben Simmons despite not playing game. Has been more than a year removed from college, on a NBA players payroll and had state of the art equipment, trainers and personnel through his injury process

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Because thats the rules plain and simple! The rules clearly state Simmons is a rookie so he is a rookie and thus is eligible for rookie of the year. Its not debatable and attempting to debate this topic defies logic. You could say "I think he SHOULDN’T be considered a rookie". Okay fair enough but you can’t say "he is NOT a rookie" because he clearly is classified as a rookie.

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 What’s the Definition of a "Rookie"?? If you know the Definition of a "Rookie" it’s plain and simple to know that Ben is not. Donaven Mitchell for Roy.

And here’s another Prediction. Toronto is the weakest 1 seed team I have ever seen with literally a .0000001034 chance of making the finals. I hope your salty!!!

 

[holefillers1Participant]

 Redshirts are for injuries as well.  If all you have is analogies then this case is closed.  BTW if I repeat the 11th grade I am still allowed to attend the Junior Prom, still allowed to run for Junior class office. Stop comparing anologies and start comparing stats.

[SubZeroParticipant]

Actually by NBA rules he is a rookie and it’s pretty clear. People can say “Simmons *shouldn’t* be a rookie” but saying he isn’t is just 100% wrong. I think a lot of people would say the rule could use a tune up, but it is what it is right now and people are just gonna have to deal with it, no matter how much they want Mitchell to win it

[Miko4rm206Participant]

Ben Simmons was still on the 76ers payroll, using NBA Facilities, equipment and Staff on his road to recovery.

Everybody knows he was injured his rookie season! Which is ashame. But you can’t give him ROY over another individual who is a "True Rookie" who has producing and led his team to a top 4 seed in the western conference. Ben Simmons is still gonna be great. And it’s unfortunate he had his injury at the point in time. But in my opinion he is not a rookie

 

 

[SubZeroParticipant]

Alright that’s all fine, but what I’m saying is by the rules he’s a rookie. They could maybe change it next year since everyone’s so determined to let Mitchell win it, but you can’t just decide you’re not going to pay attention to an official rule. Hopefully the actual voters won’t think that way because that’s unfair to Simmons. All of this has been just as out of his control as it has been with Mitchell

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Shouldve read this first before making my other comment. Exactly.

[r377Participant]

Mitchell  –

 

"I really don’t care. The biggest thing for me is that we’re in the fourth seed and fighting for the third seed. If I’m worrying about individual awards, I’m giving up on my teammates and what we’re trying to build here. Clearly, I’m not the one losing sleep over this. I don’t care.

 

I’ll say this. I’ll put it in perspective for people who obviously don’t play in the NBA and don’t know the life of the NBA. So, let’s say you have an exam to take on June 1 and you have a whole year to study for that exam, you’re going to get a pretty good grade on it, aren’t you? But some people may not have all that time to prepare for that exam. So, that’s how I look at it and I hope that puts it in perspective for people. But at the end of the day, we’re in the fourth seed. I got the Defensive Player of the Year and the Coach of the Year on my team, so I’m happy."

 

 

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 And they had a worse record last year. (I know the wholevHayward Hill argument. But…. 

By your logic…)

 

[kobyzParticipant]

 It will be more romantic to choose Mitchell and I’m a romantic person, also roty doesn’t necessary mean best player, it could also include better story, who lead his team to better accomplish, etc…

[RUDEBOY-Participant]

 Simmons says he haven’t seen any rookie this year that he’s impressed by. And he’s the Clear Cut Winn. Donovan responds wit the Hoodie! I’m Loving It!!  Gotten kind of tired of these players wit the Bro Hugs B4 games! 

[ZachAttackParticipant]

Look at how MCW’s career turned out… can anybody even name the last 5 rookie of the year winners without looking it up? Many know I’m a Jazz fan and even I’m sick of hearing the lame excuse of Simmons isn’t a rookie. If I had a vote I’d give it to Mitchell, maybe it’s my inner fanboy kicking in but I think he’s done more for the Jazz this season than Simmons has for the 6ers. Also, Simmons is playing with probably the best center in the league. But Simmons will likely win the award and I just don’t really care anymore, what matters in the end is the amount of championships these players will have… also to Taylor Gang Mike… Mitchell could care less about this award, the only reason he wore the sweatshirt was to show Simmons that he deserves some respect after Simmons called him out like he did, or lack of calling him out idk what you’d call what he did. Very unsportsmanlike in my opinion. Simmons will probably win it this year and then we’ll see who has the better career of the two. That’s how we’ll define these guys… not by an award given to them in their first (or second) season.

 

[220Participant]

 Thank you. The recent lame excuse that Ben Simmoms isn’t a rookie is maddening to listen to. Simmons and Donovan Mitchell have both been excellent and key contributors to their teams success. Simmons dominance has been surprising, but few if any people saw Mitchell coming. It’s a shame that with so many years of mediocre rookie of the years that the league has two extremely deserving candidates this year. I hate that we have to wait another 3 months to know who wins, but the 76ers and Jazz should be ecstatic about having such dominant rookies leading their teams into the playoffs.

 

[holefillers1Participant]

 Simmons just won the Eastern Conference Player of the Week award…maybe he can share that with Mitchell too.

[220Participant]

 Oh man I love that. I wish I could give you +10.

[RUDEBOY-Participant]

 HaHa!! Knowing the 76ers History of Tanking.There were several media Reports that Simmons was healthy Enuff to play the 2nd Half of last season. 

[2quick4uParticipant]

Mitchell just broke another record..again..this time most triples by a rookie and that gives him another "first rookie ever to", this time: the first and only rookie in history to score most triples and win the slam dunk contest at the same time, which shows the unique type of player he is.

and he did it after playing around with Klay Thompson whom is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, beating the GSW by 40 and after becoming Utah the Nº1 defense in the league.

I’m going all the way with Mitchell, the type of season he’s having is absolutely historical, actually something we’ve never seen (yes, as much as these words can hurt your eyes) and he’s done it while being the franchise player for a team that was supposed to win 30 games this year.

Simmons is having a great year too, but let’s be honest here, Embiid is clearly the franchise player on their team and the main reason for the sixers success, as he’s their best offensive and defensive player plus the one that gets doubled teamed, while in Utah is Mitchell the one that gets doubled teamed and takes the whole load on offense for them, specially when most needed.

watch out for Utah because they are the hottest team right now and the one that has the tools to beat anyone in playoffs.

 

 

[The GoatParticipant]

Blake Griffin was in the same position as Ben Simmons. He was considered a rookie.On the flip side, you get guys like Julius Randle. He played a few minutes and that had to count as his rookie year. It’s very clear – if you play, that’s your rookie year. If you don’t, it’s not.

A lot of Simmons hate out there – he can’t naturally play the point, he can’t defend, he can’t shoot with his correct hand, he has no jumper, he cant hit free throws, he’s then he can’t do it without Embiid, he’s not a rookie…

Let me make this clear – 6’10” point guard, 16, 8, 8 on over.500 shooting, 21 years old, team is a couple of seasons removed from a 10 win campaign, he leads then to 50 wins including 15 in a row to end the year while their all NBA centre is out… and he’s in his first season after one year playing power forward in college.

ROTY

[timinator1Participant]

He’s in his first year after sitting out his rookie year with an injury, doing rehab and practicing with the team, but not playing in games. After one year playing Point Forward in college.

And yes, the Blake argument is right. Except that happened before 76ers began the redshirt year as a standard operating procedure. I’m not against the red shirt year, I think it’s great. Lonzo should have done it, DeAndre Fox should have done it, Malik Monk should have done it…these are children. But doing it, using that time to play NBA basketball in every sense except the game, is forfeiting your ROY status to me.

  

[Sharp ShooterParticipant]

IMO Simmons feel the need to be very "entitled", and a borderline whiner. He barked about not making the all star team, then his stats, and now ROTY honor. Calm down young man, this is your first season in the NBA…Humble yourself.

[holefillers1Participant]

 Humble man in a hoodie…right?

[OhCanada-Participant]

 This whole thing is fueled by Nike and Adidas. Its a brand beef. Its well known that Simmons has a clause in his contract for a bonus if he makes the Allstar game/wins ROY. Donavan Mitchell openly stated that Adidas made him the rookie definition hoodie. Its a side show and its actually quite entertaining. Im just amazed by how stirred up people can get over these plots that were made at some marketing groups round tables.

[Author]

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