[TallmanNYCParticipant]

So Rivers started today. Played 34 minutes. Shot 1 for 8 for 4 points. Dished 1 assist. Highlight was his respectable 5 rebounds.  If anyone who watched the game wants to chime in and say there was something positive about it, I’m happy to hear. But man this is exactly what I thought you would see from this guy this year. He just is not nearly ready to be in the NBA. 

[llperez]

the one game i watched of summer league he looked garbage.

[SiggyParticipant]

 Brian Roberts looks like the 2nd best rookie on the Hornets squad.

[HaleParticipant]

 He’d be fine if they let him play his natural position, he’s not a PG and probably never will be.

[SiggyParticipant]

 He hasn’t started at the point in any of the pre-season games.  Maybe them playing him at the point to start the season was all talk.  Even with Gordon sitting out these games, you’d figure they’d still be starting Rivers at the point if that was their true intent.

[HaleParticipant]

 I sure hope it’s talk. He hasn’t shown any ability to play it and he’s better off as a scorer off the bench, especially at this point in his career with EG on the team.

[Pistol Pete. The PelicanParticipant]

 His first 2 preseason games were actually fine, his 2nd game he was like 6-13, also, he had hist first 2 turnovers tonight, first 2 games, NO turnovers at all. So, you caught him on a bad night, and you’re ready to down him. Do your research kid. Also we can’t forget the old adage. "IT’S ONLY PRESEASON."

[SiggyParticipant]

 I’m not down on him as I was never high on him.

Judging by your handle, I’m assuming you’re a Hornets fan. Do you think Austin is a future PG? Also, what do you think of Brian Roberts? I’ve been nothing but impressed by him.

[Pistol Pete. The PelicanParticipant]

Hey wasn’t saying Kid to talk down to you, just using slang, since that seems to have been misunderstood, Do I think he will be a point guard in the future? yes, Do I think he’ll be a good point guard in spot duty this year?yes, I think the Hornets are kind of killing themselves for not having him play the one in games right now, even though Eric Gordon is out. He needs the experience even if it’s in preseason. Also I like Roberts, but I don’t think he has a considerable amount of upside, he could be a steady player, but these days in the NBA you don’t need steady at the point guard, Austin Rivers COULD be,a great scoring pg like Westbrook, not saying he will. Westbrook had a ton of the same questions as Rivers coming into the league. I also like Grevis, he has the size advantage at the point guard, good rebounder, passer, and is becoming a better shooter. He just needs to learn to make the easy play and not the exciting play. Speaking for Hornets fans, we HOPE, Rivers is the answer at the 1, but we’ll have a dynamo 6th man at worst. There are ton of ineffiecient scorers coming off of the bench, and If Rivers doesn’t improve that’s what he’ll be. But back to Roberts, I think you keep him on the team because he can run the 1, he’s gotten much better since he went to Europe, but he’s already 26, and it’s not like he’s setting the world on fire, as a young team you still have to look for the future, and I think most people would rather have Rivers of Vasquez over Roberts for the future. On paper, their potential as players is super high over his. But Roberts is that type of player who steadies the ship when things get out of control.

[SiggyParticipant]

 I don’t think they’re killing themselves by not having him play the point in the preseason.  If that is the direction they want to go, there is nothing wrong with a gradual transformation.  Maybe they realized he’s not as advanced as they initially thought. Throwing him into the fire now is a bit of a sink or swim proposition. Some guys try to completely overhaul their mentality as a player and it could have bad consequences if they lose some of their natural instincts. Look at guys like OJ Mayo. The Grizz experimented with trying to make him a PG one summer and IMO he STILL hasn’t recovered from that. If you watch OJ play now he looks like he’s overthinking things, trying to be too fine with his decisions.  He’s hesitating now, trying to execute what he thinks is the correct play instead of just reacting to the defense and trusting his instincts. For kids who grow up thinking "score, score, score" that can be even more problematic because it is such a drastic difference in mentality and play.  Scoring PG or not, the point still has the responsiblity of being the primary decision maker and putting his team in the best position to score.

Not every player can follow the Westbrook blueprint.  What Westbrook has over a guy like Austin, and just about everyone else FTM, is the ability to physically dominate his matchup on both ends of the floor.  Austin can’t do that so he’ll have to be better with the mental aspects of the position…which quite frankly, aren’t even close to being there for Austin.

Also, whatever happened to players earning their keep?  If Rivers is as good as he and his fans think he is, then eventually outplaying an unknown like Brian Roberts should be no problem.  But in the meantime, the better player should start.  The primary ball-handler (whether it’s the PG or not) is the head of the team offensively.  If he doesn’t know what he’s doing, if he can’t get the team organized, get the ball to where it needs to go on time, etc then the rest of the team’s offensive play suffers.  The Hornets need to think about what’s good for the team, not just what’s good for Austin Rivers.

[Pistol Pete. The PelicanParticipant]

 No offense to Brian Roberts, but the better Austin Rivers is the better the team is. I don’t think there is any statement you can make to disagree with that. And something Austin Rivers has on a ton of players already in the NBA is wicked ball handling skills and a sick first step, westbrook loses control of his dribble tons of time, he’s just so much faster than everyone else. You know one of the key components of being a point guard is handling the ball. And also a gradual transformation still actually means a transformation is taking place, there isn’t a transformation if Austin Rivers is playing off of the ball right now, not helping his point guard skills. Doesn’t have to do it for a whole game but he has to do it some. Also if this were a automatic playoff team then there would be no problem with Roberts playing over Rivers or Vasquez, the point is this team is rebuilding, and you have to see what you have with your young players, especially a top 10 pick like Austin Rivers, it’s rare a 26 year old journeyman becomes a franchise cornerstone or savior. Especially at the point guard position today, It’s a star positon. Like I said you can’ have steady, you need someone who can be a star. Brian Roberts had some big scoring games in the summer league but he also had more turnovers than assists and at least 3 fouls every game, he was also a horrible rebounder, so all he provided was points. I don’t think you believe Roberts is a better scorer than Rivers, even at this point. Let’s not forget his low rebound rate, and horrible assist to turnover rate in college, he was a good scorer at DAYTON!

 

How about this, who would you build your team around Austin Rivers or Brian Roberts? Not many people will say Roberts. 

[SiggyParticipant]

 I wouldn’t build a team around either.

I would say that the better Austin Rivers is, the better the investment in him looks.  I don’t think the health of the franchise hinges on him.  I’d put him as 3rd in the pecking order behind Davis and Gordon, but not a make or break player.  Like I said, when you have a liability at the helm the rest of the offense suffers.  It puts more pressure on players who aren’t capable of carrying the load and leaves them up to their own devices.  

Austin has shown no PG skills up to date outside of the ability to handle the ball, which is why some people laugh at even the notion of him being a PG. Right now Austin would be 3rd in line at the PG position behing Greivis and Roberts in terms running a team IMO.  Not only is Roberts better at running plays and getting the team organized (watch how he directs traffic as opposed to Rivers) but he’s also better at executing simple plays (like catching and shooting which Austin struggles with), making decisions off of pick n roll and even defending the position.  No he’s not a savior or even close to one, but he can be someone who helps the rest of the team’s development just by being a better PG, while also serving as a placeholder while Austin learns the position.

Also, it’s not like Rivers couldn’t get a little experience running the team with play calls for him that puts the ball in his hands or off the bench, even WITH Roberts on the floor.  Unlike Rivers, Roberts has shown an ability to be effective off the ball as well since he knows how to move off of it and has catch and shoot ability.  Which brings up another problem with Rivers.  Even PGs have to know what to do when they don’t have the ball in their hands.  Rivers is pretty clueless when it comes to that aspect of basketball as well. I think it’s overlooked how green Rivers is in just about every aspect of basketball outside of 1 on 1 iso scoring.

[llperez]

lol at calling people kid becasue you disagree with their criticism. keep in mind rivers shot a blistering 21% from the field in summer league play. And those 2 "good" preseason games he was below 50%. In fact he is at 33% in his 3 preseason games and coupled with his summer league shooting, i think its safe to say this guy needs a few years befroe he is ready to help an nba team…kid

[Pistol Pete. The PelicanParticipant]

 actually wasn’t using "KID" in a condescending tone, I was saying kid, as in son, dude, bruh(bro), man, slang terms you use when you don’t call someone by name, and you’re acting as if summer league, is a big measuring stick of how good a player will be in the league.. Derrick Rose shot 29% in summer league in 2008, 64% from the line, and he had a total of 11 assists and 8 turnovers. So yeah use summer league and preseason stats to further your argument lol

[llperez]

wow, rose struggled and he turned out good? I guess becasue there are a few examples, then we can dismiss the idea of summer league and preseason all together. Nah, ill play the percentages. Most guys who struggle in both preseason and summer league dont just turn it on in the real season. WAY more evidence to support preseason performance for an unproven rookie is a valuable way to analyzie if they are ready then just saying well rose did it so it doesnt matter. LOL

[dolla130Participant]

lol what a complete overreaction its one game, and it seemed like you were waiting for one bag game cuz he played 2 other games already and played fine and there were no posts, its just preseason calm down and hes playing out of position and getttin used to his new team, and the training camp just started and this is the hornets 3rd game in like 4 nighs

[SiggyParticipant]

 He’s not playing out of position. He’s been starting at the 2.

[aamir543Participant]

He’s gonna shoot a low percentage this season, he’s gonna have nights where he goes 2-12, but that doesn’t mean he’s not gonna be a solid NBA player.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

I didn’t realize he had played so many preseason games. Otherwise I wouldn’t have called out this one. But yeah, the dude is struggling to score. I’m surprised though by the rebounding so far. 3.7 per game in 30 minutes of play is pretty good for a guard. And he blocked a shot!!! Considering he had something like 1 block all season last year, this is a good sign that he is figuring out that he needs to contribute in some manner other than shooting the ball. 

Anyway, lets see how he does. I think it is going to be ugly this year. 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 Fourth preseason game. 3 for 12 and 1 assist in a 33 minute night. Shockingly he had another block. That is two in four games. At this rate I’m going to have to reassess my views on his defense. 

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