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Ricky Rubio or Kyrie Irving ?

For_Never_Ever
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Ricky Rubio or Kyrie Irving ?

Both players have a flashy but poise game. Which one would you want to be the franchise point guard of your team ?


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Give me Rubio on a team that

Give me Rubio on a team that has good scoring already. If the team lacks a #1 guy or needs more scoring then playmaking, give me Kyrie.

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Irving. I think both players

Irving. I think both players are about equal talent wise right now, but Rubio's been playing professional basketball for like 5 years now. I think Irving's early success is more impressive considering he only played about a dozen college games.

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I would probably have Rubio,

I would probably have Rubio, purely because he has that ability to make his team mates better and always gets them so involved in the game. Irving is just as good, but Rubio is the mold of a PG i would prefer on my team.

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Rubio.. I like pass first

Rubio.. I like pass first point guards a lot more than "score first" "point guards"... He makes his team so much better, plays a high level of defense, really gets out on the break, extremely competitive, plays with a very high IQ... I will admit I haven't seen Kyrie play as much as I would like, but I've seen so many good things from Rubio that I couldn't pass on him..

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dunno

first reaction to me was rubio but to early to tell. if kyrie has some guys to shoot he can have alot more assists and it seems he can score better but again too early.

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Rubio rarely gets his assists

Rubio rarely gets his assists from spot up shooters or anything like that though. He gets the bulk of his assists on lobs or passes into the paint. He plays like the kind of PG you want: pass first, look to make his team better, competitive, and willing to get better. I'll take Rubio anyday because he is the one that is leading his team to victories. Even though Irving just beat the Celtics on his last second shot.. The difference is that Rubio CREATES offenses where Irving only RUNS offense. Rubio completely controls the flow of the game for his team when he's in the game. And I don't think Irving is quite at that point yet.

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Irving is a complete player, Rubio is not

"Rubio rarely gets his assists from spot up shooters or anything like that though. He gets the bulk of his assists on lobs or passes into the paint. He plays like the kind of PG you want: pass first, look to make his team better, competitive, and willing to get better. I'll take Rubio anyday because he is the one that is leading his team to victories. Even though Irving just beat the Celtics on his last second shot.. The difference is that Rubio CREATES offenses where Irving only RUNS offense. Rubio completely controls the flow of the game for his team when he's in the game. And I don't think Irving is quite at that point yet."

You are basically proving that Irving is a better player. Rubio will never be a go-to guy to win a game. Irving can be the go to guy every game or he can be a great passer with excellent court vision and a high basketball IQ. Rubio gets most of his assists on lobs and dunks because he has guys that can dunk. Plain and simple. Yes he is only playing with one all-star in Love, but that is more than Irving has - with next to 0 guys who can dunk on his team.

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Irving is better

Irving is like a chris paul Deron Williams type, and hes two years younger, and he can still average about 9 assists and 22 points one day while rubio i cant imagine averaging more than 14 ppg but having 11 assists.

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Rubio

He is a pass first, second, third point guard. Have you seen his shooting %

Mr. 19134
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I love Irving but in their

I love Irving but in their primes would you of taken Jason Kidd or Stephon Marbury?

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Irving is nothing Like Starbury

Irving is a complete player, Rubio is not. Nothing more needs to be said.

river09
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You don't think his shot will

You don't think his shot will get any better? Seriously.. he is 21... Anyone remember back when a guy named jason kidd was a rookie.. shot um around 38% from the field... anndd 27% from 3 point land... annd he's 3rd on the all time list for 3's made..... a jumpshot is actually one of those things a player can improve. Rubio strikes me as a player who will do whatever possible to improve..

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There is no going wrong with

There is no going wrong with either. Their both gonna help your team tremendously.

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@Mr. 19134So you're saying

@Mr. 19134

So you're saying Irving is Marbury???

To be honest, it's too early right now to decide. Rubio has all of the hype right now (some is deserved), but Irving can play his ass off. He hasn't been playing professionally as long as Rubio either. He only played a handfull of games during college. Yet, he's holding his own easily in the NBA. You have to love his upside.

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I think it's crazy that we

I think it's crazy that we found two potential superstars in this draft even though many said this rookie class would only have role players.

Depends on the team to be honest just like Rondo is the perfect point guard for the Celtics.

However I think everyone will see Irving's assists go up as he has better players around him. Irving doesn't have a consistent three point shooter, a consistent low post scorer, and no elite athletes where he can throw lobs to...and Rubio has all of that.

I personally would rather have Irving because the kid is a winner and isn't afraid of putting the team on his back and willing his team to a victory. Irving is already the best player on the Cavs and he is 19 years old and has only played 30 games since highschool...he has a much higher ceiling than Rubio.

However, you can't go wrong with either. I can definitely see Rubio challenge Stockton for the season assists record in a couple years.

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Call me crazy, but I want

Call me crazy, but I want Irving. This isn't a diss to Rubio, but how can you not pick a guy that's averaging 18 points a game in just 28 minutes a game? And this is rookie season. This ridiculous scoring idea with the ability to pass is somthing I can't pass up in a young player. I agree that there will be several scoring guards like Irbing before we see a passing guard like Rubio and Kidd again, but Irving is really somthing special, and he has also led the Cavs to a record close to .500. Both will be great players, but I would take Irving.

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Not close

I really don't think it is close. The one thing people somehow just feel like ignoring is how good of a defender and rebounder he is. Just under 5 boards a a game at the PG spot. He is in the top 5 in the entire NBA, not just rookies, but ENTIRE league in assists and steals. He is a great defender. He has taken a team that has made no real additions, other than Barea who hasn't played, that had 17 wins all of last year and has them at 10 wins just one game below .500. Will Irving score more? If that is the question, yes. But do I want a player who is going to play in EVERY facet of the game and is going to make my team better every single night I'm taking Rubio.

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Sorry Heelsfan but it is

Sorry Heelsfan but it is actually a very close and hotly debated question and the fact that you think its otherwise is kind of ridiculous (maybe a UNC bias in here?). You're really just picking and choosing your stats, because you failed to mention all of the amazing stats that Kyrie is so far getting this season.

Kyrie is 6th in the LEAGUE in scoring per 48 minutes only behind the Kobes, Lebrons, and Durants of the NBA. He is also in the top 15 (top 3 point guards) in PER sitting at about 22.88 and only behind Rose and Paul for point guards. That is RIDICULOUS for a rookie let alone point guard of a team as horrible as the Cavs.

Also I think the Timberwolve's coaching change has a lot more to do with Minnesota's record so far this season than Rubio.

You also failed to mention that the Cavs had one of the worst season EVER by an NBA team last year and they are only a couple games from .500 as well with Irving being their best player and only playing 28mpg. Plus the Cavs have significantly less talent than the Timberwolves and are basically making a 19 year old lead them to every win.

I understand completely if someone would rather have Rubio over Irving, but to say it's not close is just hysterical.

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Give Me Either.

I've watched both of these guys torch Devin Harris & my Jazz this season. These two are both going to be amazing. Rubio or more John Stockton (not because he's white) and Irving's more DWill (not because he's black). Sorry for using former Jazz pgs, but these two really do remind me of those two at early stages in their careers. I'd take Rubio, but both have impressed me big-time when I've watched them play this year.

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not sure who i woud take yet.

not sure who i woud take yet. I can barely watch the cavs when the lakers play them, and even then i cant stay focused on the tv. Rubio looks great though. And to the guy who said this past draft was considered weak but produced both these guys, rubio was actually drafted a couple years ago.

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Kyrie

Please only answer Rubio is you have actually watched a few Cavs games and watched him play. i have watched many Rubbio games and every single Cavs games and from what i can see and think, I would take Kyrie. Kyrie is a game winner. The way he manages to get to the rim is unbelievable. He also has one of the better Jumpers of PG's. i have followed Kyrie since duke and one thing people seem to understand about Kyrie is that he isn't a "score first" point guard. One thing he was labelled coming into the draft was he is a "true" point guard. However in the Cavs enviroment they need him to score. Parker won't have a big scoring night, Cassipi has dispointed, Andy will give you 10-14 a game then you Sessions, Gee who will combine for 20 a game if that and then jamision who chucks up a ton of shots a game. So you have to understand Kyrie needs to score first on this Cavs team.

He is like D-will. He is a mixture of both point guards. If Kyrie wants to he can just explode on offence and dominate (E.g 17 points in 3 mintues Vs Nets), or he can go into pass first mode. His assist numbers are understated on how good of a playmaker or passer he really is.

If you take rubio out of Minny and put him into a weak with talent team he wouldn't be able to score first when his teams needs it. He is not a go to player. Kyrie is.

Kyrie is fearless. How many 19 year old guards go into the Rim as he does? How many 19 year old guards demand and take it open themselves to win their team the game?

Kyrie is doing this with only 13 college games, only 8 of which he was fully fit. Rubio has been playing in spain since a early age. Take that into fact.

Rubio will be veryy veryy good but Kyrie will be that much better.

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@llperez I meant to say two

@llperez I meant to say two superstars in this rookie class as evidenced by my statement directly after it.

"I think it's crazy that we found two potential superstars in this draft even though many said this rookie class would only have role players."

Just had a brain fart in the beginning of the sentence.

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@Nick

I've watched 2-3 of each of their games this year, including one game watching Kyrie in person.

First, Kyrie is amazing. He blew by Devin Harris repeatedly and was clearly the best guard on the floor for either team @ 19 years old.

Second, Kyrie IS a score-first pg. I watched him in several of his games @ Duke and in a couple as a pro. "True PG" does not mean he's not shoot first--it generally just means he's not a combo guard being forced into the 1 because he's too small for the 2. And if they meant "true pg" to suggest he was "pass first," they were morons. Kyrie is definitely a score-first player. He is very natural as the #1 option on his team. That doesn't mean he lacks great passing skills. There is a broad spectrum of players in the score-first category and he's good at everything, including passing. He's on the pass-capable side of the spectrum (think DWill), not the must-score-to-ever-become-a-passing-threat end of the spectrum (think BJennings).

Third, you are absolutely right that Kyrie is much better on a team w/o stars than Rubio could be. Rubio does not have the capacity to be a strong #1 option--Kyrie has that capability in spades. Kyrie will probably become an elite scorer in the NBA in addition to being an elite pg. Obviously, that makes him the better player in many playing environments.

Still, Rubio's floor vision is freakish. His capacity reminds me of the great passers in NBA history. Also, Rubio's D has really surprised me. He's crafty and better at everything than anyone thought 2 months ago. On a team that has capable scorers I'd take Rubio, but it's clearly a very close call between great prospects.

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akhan

Okay.. Akhan.. then don't forget to mention that Irving only has ONE more assist than turnover per game. Also, Kyrie averages LESS than one steal per game. IFFFFF the topic stated who would you take if you needed someone to score a basket, OBVIOUSLY it's kyrie. He looks to score. he doesn't look to assist. But the question is who would you take as your PG. And like i stated earlier, it is NOT close, Rubio is the better all around PG. over his last 10 games.. 13 ppg 10 apg 5rpg 3spg. those are ridiculous numbers. Did you happen to catch the Clippers Twolves game? 0-10 till the end of the 4th and still had more impact on the game than any player. Hits a game tying 3 from the wing with under a minute to play after going 0-10. But that wasn't it, a rookie PG, Rubio, mans up and shuts down Chauncey Billups with GREAT defense(his defense is extremely underrated). He is the COMPLETE PG.

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^^oh no

@heelsfan1307

How many Cleveland games have you watched in full?

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Indiana

Irving will never see the court the way Rubio does... if you are looking for a SG give me Irving all day.

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Both good

Rubio- needs scorers, similar Nash needs certain types of players, shooters and athletes. Not a guy I would build around because the type of team he needs wont win titles, great player though and will make your team competitive.

Irving- can play with anybody, similar to Paul can score, pass and defend. Pure PG just like Rubio just doesn't need certain players. Irving is a kid you build around

switch them and see how things work. Irving makes Minnesota a top 8 team in the West, Rubio doesn't make Cleveland much better.

Give me Kyrie

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nick

i'd say somewhere around 5-6 full games.

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Charlie.....???

Not even close... Rubio is the player of the 2 that makes teammates better. Irving is the player that finds his own shot and has not yet been able to find s use for his teammates.

If Irving is in Minnesota, Love does not sign an extension... Adelman is not coaching them and attendance is worse than ever.

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I agree. There is no way

I agree. There is no way Rubio would be able to swap teams with Irving this year and help the cavs like Irving has. No way.

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^^^ There is also no way that

^^^ There is also no way that Irving will be able to help the T-Wolves like Rubio has. They're completely different PG's, both are very good but are best suited to completely different teams and are better off with varying types of personel around them.

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Irving all day. He's 19

I respect Rubio's game but I am taking Irving. Cleveland would suck with Rubio. Minnesota would be more deadly with Irving.

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I'll take Rubio. He's more

I'll take Rubio. He's more than numbers, he competes hard and brings a winning attitude. Irving is better than I gave him credit for, but I always prefer PGs who can impact the game without scoring like Rondo, Kidd etc.

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Wow, I like Rubio, but you

Wow, I like Rubio, but you guys are sleeping on Irving. The kid is scoring 22.6 points per game on a per 36 minute basis and shooting 51%. That makes him arguably one of the top ten scorers in the league right now! To put that in perspective, that is similar to what Derrick Rose did last year during his MVP season (Rose scored 24 points per game on a per 36 minute basis, but did it on 45% shooting). That is elite scoring. And this is with a guy who everyone knows can pass and run an offense, he isn't just looking for his shot unless it is a good strategy. No question Rubio brings some great stuff to the table, but Irving has no weaknesses and elite scoring ability. And the Wolves would be winning with Irving instead of Rubio (though they wouldn't be as fun to watch!)

Also, comparing the Cavs talent level to the Wolves talent level is ridiculous. Of course Irving isn't going to average that many assists. Do you think there is someone on that team to pass to who is shooting better than Irving's 51%? Not a chance. He has to score and so far 20 games in the LEAGUE really can't stop him.

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Rose?

If you are comparing Rose to Kyrie Irving the comparison needs to start with wins/losses. Somebody on Cleveland needs to score.

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Yes, somebody needs to score.

Yes, somebody needs to score. And when the other team's defense knows it has to be Kyrie Irving and yet he is still scoring at a 51% field goal rate, that means Irving is an elite scorer. It would presumably be easier to score surrounded by the Bulls talent than it is to do it in Cleveland. By the way, I'm not saying Irving is as good as Rose, but I am saying that if he keeps up scoring like this with this type of shooting percentage then we have to think of him as a star and one of the elite PGs in the game. It doesn't matter if he doesn't dunk hard or throw flashy passes, which is why I think people are sleeping on him. And Cleveland is 8 and 12, better record than the Knicks, better record than Golden State (how do you compare Irving to Steph Curry and Monta Ellis? I say it is looking like he has to be put on the same level).

This all assumes he can keep it up at this pace. He might not be able to, this might just be a hot streak.

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Tallman

Your contention is the same one that has been used for Monta Ellis and as good of a scorer as Ellis he plays losing basketball. Don't get wrong... I think Irving has the potential be a big time player, but he first has to learn how to make his teammates better not score the basketball. Marbury could've become a legend had he continued to pass the ball as he did when he was with the Wolves. Instead he wanted to be/play like Iverson.

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Does anybody remenber Steph

Does anybody remenber Steph Marbury before he started eating vasaline? Steph Marbury and Kidd were actually traded for each other during their primes.

Yes Irving does remind me of Marbury. This is not a diss by any means. Starbury came out as a freshman and averaged 16 and 8 as a rookie. The same numbers Wall averaged last year. Only Marbury was in the same draft as A.I. so he got overshadowed like how Wall was in the same rookie class as Griffin.

But Marbury was one of the greatest PG's of his era. He would give you over 20 points and 10 assists a night. He'd hit the pull up J to win the game. He made All Star games. He sold sneakers. He was a phenom. To say Irving either doesn't have the same ability or is going to be better then that at this point is just ridiculous.

So if Irving turns out to be Stephon Marbury in his prime are you saying that's going to be a disapointment?

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Charlie

Rubio does need scorers. He creates scores by giving players open looks alomost ever time down the floor. Every player can hit an open shot. Look at the plus/minus ratings of the 2 players and the difference becomes obvious.

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Marbury

Every team Marbury was traded to other than the Wolves did worse with Marbury than they did before he arrived... NETS worse.. Suns worse.. Knicks...worse. So in that sense yes, more was expected from Marbury than just statistics. He provided a cancerous environment in lockerroom, and became a unmovable maxxed out contract all the while providing fewer wins than before he arrived.

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Hmm, Rubio does have a

Hmm, Rubio does have a shockingly high +/-. While Irving is a little more what you would expect (he out performs his counterpart, but since he is on a bad team and basically playing with overmatched starter teamates, the team doesn't do great while he is on the floor). But +/- is a particularly inconsistent stat over short periods of time. (Irving's teammate Christian Eyenga is currently +175 which might be an all time record. But is based on 1 minute of play.) And +/- is dependent on your teammates, especially over short periods of time.

The thing that I'm fixated on with Irving is that 51% FG%. That is really quite high for a point guard. Marbury shot 41% his first season and 42% his second season. It wasn't until much later in his career that he had a few seasons shooting 44% to 46%. B. Knight is shooting 41% and K. Walker is shooting 38%. That is more normal rooking guard shooting. If Irving improves his shooting from 51%, then that has to be winning basketball. Even Montal Ellis had a postive +/- in the one year that he shot over 50% (2007-08 shot 53%).

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Tallman

+/- is inconsistant when you are basing it on 1 minute of play. How is inconsistant when based on the season?

It's simple really... either you are outcoring your opponent or you are not when you are on the floor.

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We are only 20 games into the

We are only 20 games into the season, +/- can result in some weird things, especially so under relatively small sample sizes. Once we have a full season, then it becomes more meaningful, but for Rubio and Irving we just have 20 games. And during those 20 games the rotations weren't really set. I suspect Rubio played a lot more against second units at the start of the season, for example, then he does now. That might help his +/- because the Wolves's second unit is relatively speaking pretty good and Rubio was playing against bench guards. Now Rubio starts and the Wolves are thinking playoffs. Irving has always started, but now he is getting more minutes. Now it is starting to get real.

But yes, if Rubio remains a +11 between when he is on the court and when he is off the court at the end of the season, well then that is going to be pretty impressive. That is the kind of difference that Nash in his prime made. And a lot better than a lot of "great" players have ever done (see Melo as a good example, I'm sure he never finished a season with + in the double digits).

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@BigD, I beg to differ, I

@BigD, I beg to differ, I feel that Irving would give the T-Wolves a go to guy and make teams focus their attention on someone other than Love. Irving isn't the fancy passer Rubio is,, but he would give the T-Wolves a whole nother dimension, that I believe he would vault the T-Wolves to the next level.

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AAMir

Wolves offense is predicated on ball movement and Rubio creating open looks for the rest of the team. Irving is a fine player just can't imagine the Wolves improving with with just half of the assists that Rubio provides.

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Debate

It really depends on who is on my roster and what type of style I am trying to run. If I have players that can score and just need someone to distribute them the ball or if i want to run an up-tempo style, then I would take Rubio. But if I need someone that can score, penetrate, play good man to man defense, is good in transition and half-court offense, then I would take Irving.

I think both guys are talented, but I would choose Rubio over Irving because I believe that he has the ability to flourish on a team that runs up and down the court. I always loved Steve Nash’s game since his early days on the Mavericks and I can see Rubio doing the same thing. I always compared Rubio to Steve Nash without a great jump shot. Rubio has great height for a point guard (6'4), long arms to defect passes, can run like a deer up and down the court, and isn’t a selfish player. He is not the type of scorer that Irving is, but he doesn’t have to score to be affective. I heard on one of his interviews where he actually states that assists are like scoring baskets to him and he prefers doing that and getting all his teammates involved.

Irving reminds me a lot of a younger Chris Paul and is playing tremendously well this year.

Both players with be allstars in the league for many years.

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Debate

It really depends on who is on my roster and what type of style I am trying to run. If I have players that can score and just need someone to distribute them the ball or if i want to run an up-tempo style, then I would take Rubio. But if I need someone that can score, penetrate, play good man to man defense, is good in transition and half-court offense, then I would take Irving.

I think both guys are talented, but I would choose Rubio over Irving because I believe that he has the ability to flourish on a team that runs up and down the court. I always loved Steve Nash’s game since his early days on the Mavericks and I can see Rubio doing the same thing. I always compared Rubio to Steve Nash without a great jump shot. Rubio has great height for a point guard (6'4), long arms to defect passes, can run like a deer up and down the court, and isn’t a selfish player. He is not the type of scorer that Irving is, but he doesn’t have to score to be affective. I heard on one of his interviews where he actually states that assists are like scoring baskets to him and he prefers doing that and getting all his teammates involved.

Irving reminds me a lot of a younger Chris Paul and is playing tremendously well this year.

Both players with be allstars in the league for many years.

JNixon
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I think Kyrie is a better

I think Kyrie is a better player simply because he seems to have the talent and intangibles to win more AND produce at the same level. The Cavs are not supposed to be as competitive as they are this year. They do not have very talented players on their roster honestly. I've watched them play 3 times this year and Irving is a special player. He's more of a scoring PG than the pure distributor Rubio is, and he doesn't have the size Rubio does, but he's more than decent in both areas (wait until Cleveland gets better offensive pieces) and he's a better scorer and shooter than Rubio is. I am in agreement with all the people who have said if Rubio was to switch with Irving the Cavs would be worse and the Wolves would be better. That's no slight to Rubio, as he's a 1st year NBA player at the end of the day, and Rubio has been a bit better than I thought he'd be on record (a while back I thought he'd be a flop), but I think both have bright futures.

Johnny Chill
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Rubio comparison

Rubio is a glorified Jose Calderon or the Spanish Chocolate.

Ghost01
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Kyrie Irving is much better

Kyrie Irving is much better in terms of being a complete player and a franchise leader.

Rubio is an excellent passer, and has alot of rare skills that make his game unique. With K Love, he has an opportunity to do great things, However, Irving is the superior player. Irving is already leading a team and looks like a stud from day one. They are both gems, but Irving is the greater of the two.

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