[PaulsJayhawksParticipant]

Lots of Raps post seem to think Kyrie Irving will just land at our feet. Lets assume hes off the board #1. I fel the Raps could finish anywhere from 2-6. Who do you want. Kanter, one of the Jones or how about Barnes who has looked better and better? Myself I think Barnes is a gamer and would fit well in the Raps uni and might be a steal in the 3-6 range.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

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[RUDEBOY_Participant]

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[Snubs15Participant]

Havent seen Kanter play so i have no idea about him. Perry Jones would fit if he could play the 3, but he is pretty raw and unproven so far when it comes to playing sf. T Jones is good but i would take Barnes over him based on potential and overall game. Sullinger and Williams are great players but i dont think they fit in the system since we have so many young pf’s already so i dont think we should take them. Either we trade up in the draft to get Irving, or take Barnes imo.

[Snubs15Participant]

Havent seen Kanter play so i have no idea about him. Perry Jones would fit if he could play the 3, but he is pretty raw and unproven so far when it comes to playing sf. T Jones is good but i would take Barnes over him based on potential and overall game. Sullinger and Williams are great players but i dont think they fit in the system since we have so many young pf’s already so i dont think we should take them. Either we trade up in the draft to get Irving, or take Barnes imo.

[jjonzParticipant]

Thats an Instant Impact player. They have to start winning & maybe a High Draft Pick is the key to turn that franchise around. I just wish they had a HOF coach that could be drafted as well. It seems that a coaching change is needed more so than an infusion of more youth.

[jjonzParticipant]

Thats an Instant Impact player. They have to start winning & maybe a High Draft Pick is the key to turn that franchise around. I just wish they had a HOF coach that could be drafted as well. It seems that a coaching change is needed more so than an infusion of more youth.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

Yall need a True Center if you do not go PG, to move Bargnani to his natural 4 spot. How many more seasons must this go on with him playing out of position. The best 1st round pick you have made in a long time has been DeRozan by far. I was confused when you took Ed Davis rather than moving up for Cole Aldrich or taking Hassan Whiteside.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

Yall need a True Center if you do not go PG, to move Bargnani to his natural 4 spot. How many more seasons must this go on with him playing out of position. The best 1st round pick you have made in a long time has been DeRozan by far. I was confused when you took Ed Davis rather than moving up for Cole Aldrich or taking Hassan Whiteside.

[r377Participant]

They are ok at 2 and 4 with Derozen and Davis.

If they don’t get a top 3 pick, they will prob get pick 5-7. Kanter, Barnes, Jones(s) are all possible

[r377Participant]

They are ok at 2 and 4 with Derozen and Davis.

If they don’t get a top 3 pick, they will prob get pick 5-7. Kanter, Barnes, Jones(s) are all possible

[HotSnotParticipant]

The only guy on the Raps roster that seems to be a solid building block is Ed Davis and maybe Derozan (not a break down shooting guard who creates his own shot)  if we factor in production and Salary when constructing a championship caliber team. Andrea Bargnani is a PF playing center who can’t guard anyone one on one and is a poor help defender.  I’d see if the Raps could unload him for another high pick (top 6 only). 

There are six precieved top flight prospects in this draft (not franchise changers), Irving, Jones, Williams, Sullinger (who I’m not sold on) Barnes (maybe) and Kanter (4th to 6th pick). Jonas Valanciunas is interesting a few picks farther down and Nolan Smith could be another Ty Lawson type who doesn’t seem like a sexy pick but makes a team very happy after drafting him.  Toronto could grab Nolan Smith with Miami’s pick based on current draft projections… but lets face it Raps fans, with Bargnani as your center piece you’ll never be more then a 45 win team.  Kaman is a better center then Barg’s is.  Kanter is hit or miss and could turn into another Rafael Araujo for all I know.  Just quit drafting only for need.  Grab the best guy on the board even if its another PF.  Toronto should end up with the 3rd or 4th pick (I think Washington and Sactown finish with more wins) provided the lottery balls bounce fairly.  Irving won’t be there at 3 or 4…definitly not 4. 

So if were talking the 4th pick, Derozan is your SG and Davis is your PF… I’d look for 3 options, Perry Jones first (love his potential), Williams second (can play sf or pf) and Barnes a distant 3rd.  In fact, if Irving, Williams and Jones are off the board at 4 I’d see if I could trade down a couple spots to pickup Barnes there or perhaps include the pick in a trade to another team for a good prospect and or vet and a future first rounder… unless the Raps become believers in Kanter… then grab him at 4. 

[HotSnotParticipant]

The only guy on the Raps roster that seems to be a solid building block is Ed Davis and maybe Derozan (not a break down shooting guard who creates his own shot)  if we factor in production and Salary when constructing a championship caliber team. Andrea Bargnani is a PF playing center who can’t guard anyone one on one and is a poor help defender.  I’d see if the Raps could unload him for another high pick (top 6 only). 

There are six precieved top flight prospects in this draft (not franchise changers), Irving, Jones, Williams, Sullinger (who I’m not sold on) Barnes (maybe) and Kanter (4th to 6th pick). Jonas Valanciunas is interesting a few picks farther down and Nolan Smith could be another Ty Lawson type who doesn’t seem like a sexy pick but makes a team very happy after drafting him.  Toronto could grab Nolan Smith with Miami’s pick based on current draft projections… but lets face it Raps fans, with Bargnani as your center piece you’ll never be more then a 45 win team.  Kaman is a better center then Barg’s is.  Kanter is hit or miss and could turn into another Rafael Araujo for all I know.  Just quit drafting only for need.  Grab the best guy on the board even if its another PF.  Toronto should end up with the 3rd or 4th pick (I think Washington and Sactown finish with more wins) provided the lottery balls bounce fairly.  Irving won’t be there at 3 or 4…definitly not 4. 

So if were talking the 4th pick, Derozan is your SG and Davis is your PF… I’d look for 3 options, Perry Jones first (love his potential), Williams second (can play sf or pf) and Barnes a distant 3rd.  In fact, if Irving, Williams and Jones are off the board at 4 I’d see if I could trade down a couple spots to pickup Barnes there or perhaps include the pick in a trade to another team for a good prospect and or vet and a future first rounder… unless the Raps become believers in Kanter… then grab him at 4. 

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 I have one question: Is Bargnani in your plans or did you plan on moving him when you drafted Davis? If that is your plan it might be smart to trade Bargnani so you can get a Center and focus your draft pick on either Barnes or Williams or Terrance Jones. The Raptors have two needs but part of me wants to see Davis really develop cuz I know he has alot of potential. So if Bargnani is not in your plans then trade him for a Center and give Davis more time then with your draft pick you can select a 3 like Barnes, Terrance Jones or Derrick Williams. You could trade Bargnani to Milwaukee or Pheonix both of those teams need PF and might be willing to give up a Center. I doubt you can trade Bargs for Bogut but maybe you can trade him there, get the Bucks pick and pick up Jonas Valanciunas or if Kanter is still available then go with him. However If Bargnani is in your plans then I’d pick Kanter with your original pick so you can move Bargs back to his original position at the 4.

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 I have one question: Is Bargnani in your plans or did you plan on moving him when you drafted Davis? If that is your plan it might be smart to trade Bargnani so you can get a Center and focus your draft pick on either Barnes or Williams or Terrance Jones. The Raptors have two needs but part of me wants to see Davis really develop cuz I know he has alot of potential. So if Bargnani is not in your plans then trade him for a Center and give Davis more time then with your draft pick you can select a 3 like Barnes, Terrance Jones or Derrick Williams. You could trade Bargnani to Milwaukee or Pheonix both of those teams need PF and might be willing to give up a Center. I doubt you can trade Bargs for Bogut but maybe you can trade him there, get the Bucks pick and pick up Jonas Valanciunas or if Kanter is still available then go with him. However If Bargnani is in your plans then I’d pick Kanter with your original pick so you can move Bargs back to his original position at the 4.

[OhCanada-Participant]

"get kyrie even if u have to gave up davis or derozan to get him "

No…This draft has no indisputable 1st overall draft pick. The Top 5-7 picks are not seperated by much talent, only by preference to position for each team. DeMar Derozan and Ed Davis would be top 5 picks in this draft. Also the PG position is not that bad in Toronto to the point that we would compromise our future by setting back the foundation of the team.

Kyrie Irving is the first option no doubt, but that would need a lottery draft miracle. 2nd is a toss up between Jones and Kanter. I would love to see the Raps make a move like Felton and Chandler for Bargnani, and then draft Chandler. At the same time if keeping Bargnani is going to happen which it looks like it may, having Jones in at SF to provide some more length and athletisism on the defensive end seems smart. maybe Jones could develop into a Josh Smith type player.

Barnes does not work at all for this team. As of right now I will say drafting Harrison Barnes makes the next 5 years as a Raptor Fan a horrible time. Barnes is a scorer, Derozan is a scorer, Bargnani is a scorer. We have scorers with tons of potential we dont need another. Jones, Kanter, and Irving are all players we can do alot more then just focus on scoring with. The Toronto Raptors are good at scoring the ball, they are bad at just about everything else. Time to focus on everything else.

[OhCanada-Participant]

"get kyrie even if u have to gave up davis or derozan to get him "

No…This draft has no indisputable 1st overall draft pick. The Top 5-7 picks are not seperated by much talent, only by preference to position for each team. DeMar Derozan and Ed Davis would be top 5 picks in this draft. Also the PG position is not that bad in Toronto to the point that we would compromise our future by setting back the foundation of the team.

Kyrie Irving is the first option no doubt, but that would need a lottery draft miracle. 2nd is a toss up between Jones and Kanter. I would love to see the Raps make a move like Felton and Chandler for Bargnani, and then draft Chandler. At the same time if keeping Bargnani is going to happen which it looks like it may, having Jones in at SF to provide some more length and athletisism on the defensive end seems smart. maybe Jones could develop into a Josh Smith type player.

Barnes does not work at all for this team. As of right now I will say drafting Harrison Barnes makes the next 5 years as a Raptor Fan a horrible time. Barnes is a scorer, Derozan is a scorer, Bargnani is a scorer. We have scorers with tons of potential we dont need another. Jones, Kanter, and Irving are all players we can do alot more then just focus on scoring with. The Toronto Raptors are good at scoring the ball, they are bad at just about everything else. Time to focus on everything else.

[PaulsJayhawksParticipant]

I have to respectfully disagree on Barnes. I have watched him quite a bit and he is a good defender. He does a little bit of everything. He went head to head with Singler a good crafty senior and forced him to 3-14 in the ACC regular season championship game and 3-17 at Duke. He rebounds at about 5.6 a game less than T.Jones but also I don’t think he needs the ball as much. Just my opinion.

[PaulsJayhawksParticipant]

I have to respectfully disagree on Barnes. I have watched him quite a bit and he is a good defender. He does a little bit of everything. He went head to head with Singler a good crafty senior and forced him to 3-14 in the ACC regular season championship game and 3-17 at Duke. He rebounds at about 5.6 a game less than T.Jones but also I don’t think he needs the ball as much. Just my opinion.

[kngojcParticipant]

 The Raps need either Kyrie Irving or Perry Jones because with Jones in at sf, he could provide that length and athleticism, maybe even a few rebounds and a defensive presence, that could put this team back into the middle of the pack. I’d have to say from what I’ve seen from Calderon, they should go with Jones because Calderon does everything good but doesn’t do anything all that great. I’d love to see Derrick Williams there even because of his upside and athleticism. This team has a lot of needs. Maybe trading Davis for another top pick to get Sullinger and another good lottery pick would be a good idea because when James Johnson, a benchwarmer in Chicago, becomes a starter for the Raps, that’s a problem and shows where the holes in your team are.

[kngojcParticipant]

 The Raps need either Kyrie Irving or Perry Jones because with Jones in at sf, he could provide that length and athleticism, maybe even a few rebounds and a defensive presence, that could put this team back into the middle of the pack. I’d have to say from what I’ve seen from Calderon, they should go with Jones because Calderon does everything good but doesn’t do anything all that great. I’d love to see Derrick Williams there even because of his upside and athleticism. This team has a lot of needs. Maybe trading Davis for another top pick to get Sullinger and another good lottery pick would be a good idea because when James Johnson, a benchwarmer in Chicago, becomes a starter for the Raps, that’s a problem and shows where the holes in your team are.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Great point PaulsJayHawks his man to man defense is definitely soemthing Toronto is lacking on the perimeter. Derozan does play good D at times but it is usually all for not when the teams defense is so horrible. Having a solid defensive presence on both opposing wings with Derozan (potentially), and Barnes would be great for this team. I just see Jones as someone who can do so much more for this franchise, and Kanter could be that big post presence we have always been looking for. I would take those 2 ahead of Barnes at this point.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Great point PaulsJayHawks his man to man defense is definitely soemthing Toronto is lacking on the perimeter. Derozan does play good D at times but it is usually all for not when the teams defense is so horrible. Having a solid defensive presence on both opposing wings with Derozan (potentially), and Barnes would be great for this team. I just see Jones as someone who can do so much more for this franchise, and Kanter could be that big post presence we have always been looking for. I would take those 2 ahead of Barnes at this point.

[PaulsJayhawksParticipant]

Oh Canada I agree with you T.Jones does a lot of good things and I love his fiesty attitude ….what would worry me would be having 2 wings who can’t shoot the 3 ball. Another reason why I like Barnes. If Derozan can extend his range, 100% I agree T.Jones is the choice. Somehow I would love to get Jones and pick up another early mid round pick and grab Knight. Teamates so instant chemistry and I think Knight will be a good pro.

[PaulsJayhawksParticipant]

Oh Canada I agree with you T.Jones does a lot of good things and I love his fiesty attitude ….what would worry me would be having 2 wings who can’t shoot the 3 ball. Another reason why I like Barnes. If Derozan can extend his range, 100% I agree T.Jones is the choice. Somehow I would love to get Jones and pick up another early mid round pick and grab Knight. Teamates so instant chemistry and I think Knight will be a good pro.

[Snubs15Participant]

Bargnani is not in my future plans as a raptor fan to answer the question above. Toronto traded its ate 1st round pick to chicago so we probably wont be getting nolan smith. Their really arent any good centers in this draft that would be worth wasting a 4-7 pick on other than Kanter, but i have no idea if hes good or not. If we could trade Bargnani and get a decent center out of it then the obvious pick would be a sf or pg, most likely sf since that position is loaded in this draft. 

[Snubs15Participant]

Bargnani is not in my future plans as a raptor fan to answer the question above. Toronto traded its ate 1st round pick to chicago so we probably wont be getting nolan smith. Their really arent any good centers in this draft that would be worth wasting a 4-7 pick on other than Kanter, but i have no idea if hes good or not. If we could trade Bargnani and get a decent center out of it then the obvious pick would be a sf or pg, most likely sf since that position is loaded in this draft. 

[JoeWolf1]

 Jones would be a horrible fit in Toronto, he’s not really NBA ready and would be a huge defensive liability at the 3.  He’s gonna have to play the 4 until he adjusts to the NBA and he’s not good enough to play above Amir Johnson or Ed Davis.  I feel with a player like him if you play him at the 3 too early he’ll develop into an Eddie Griffin clone who jacks jumpers and shies away from rebounding.  I feel like an NBA team will have to bulk him up a little and start him at the 4, then gradually let him play some 3 and 5 and use his versitility.  If Toronto wants a 3 then I’d go with Harrison Barnes.

[JoeWolf1]

 Jones would be a horrible fit in Toronto, he’s not really NBA ready and would be a huge defensive liability at the 3.  He’s gonna have to play the 4 until he adjusts to the NBA and he’s not good enough to play above Amir Johnson or Ed Davis.  I feel with a player like him if you play him at the 3 too early he’ll develop into an Eddie Griffin clone who jacks jumpers and shies away from rebounding.  I feel like an NBA team will have to bulk him up a little and start him at the 4, then gradually let him play some 3 and 5 and use his versitility.  If Toronto wants a 3 then I’d go with Harrison Barnes.

[OhCanada-Participant]

What if Toronto did a deal involving Harden for Bargnani, or involving Mayo for Bargnani, or involving Felton and Chandler, or involving Green, something like that and then drafted Kanter with the lotto pick. I think Colengelo should start taking this seriously, especially with an oppurtunity to draft Kanter.

If Toronto could pull off a sign and trade involving Jeff Green for Bargnani, draftb Kanter, and sign Stuckey with whatever money we have the team would be competing for the final 4 spots in the East imo.

Stuckey, Calderon, Bayless
Derozan, Barbosa
Green, Klieza, Johnson
Davis, Johnson
Kanter

[OhCanada-Participant]

What if Toronto did a deal involving Harden for Bargnani, or involving Mayo for Bargnani, or involving Felton and Chandler, or involving Green, something like that and then drafted Kanter with the lotto pick. I think Colengelo should start taking this seriously, especially with an oppurtunity to draft Kanter.

If Toronto could pull off a sign and trade involving Jeff Green for Bargnani, draftb Kanter, and sign Stuckey with whatever money we have the team would be competing for the final 4 spots in the East imo.

Stuckey, Calderon, Bayless
Derozan, Barbosa
Green, Klieza, Johnson
Davis, Johnson
Kanter

[OhCanada-Participant]

I actaully meant sliding Perry Jones in at the 3 and letting him play as an extra long SF. He is so raw but has an exreme amount of upside and recently Toronto has done a great job developing players, so if they wanted to develop Jones into a shot blocking hel defense type SF I think they could. I would much rather have Barnes then Jones from what I have seen in the NCAA and I do believe Barnes would compliment Derozan well. I just think IF Toronto wants to keep Bargnani which all signs lead to they need some more length on that team to help hide his weakness at Center.

[OhCanada-Participant]

I actaully meant sliding Perry Jones in at the 3 and letting him play as an extra long SF. He is so raw but has an exreme amount of upside and recently Toronto has done a great job developing players, so if they wanted to develop Jones into a shot blocking hel defense type SF I think they could. I would much rather have Barnes then Jones from what I have seen in the NCAA and I do believe Barnes would compliment Derozan well. I just think IF Toronto wants to keep Bargnani which all signs lead to they need some more length on that team to help hide his weakness at Center.

[Snubs15Participant]

If we get rid of Bargnani then drafting P Jones makes more sense since he could help with rebounding and hopefully defense, but if Barg`s is gone then we should take Barnes to replace his scoring contributions.

[Snubs15Participant]

If we get rid of Bargnani then drafting P Jones makes more sense since he could help with rebounding and hopefully defense, but if Barg`s is gone then we should take Barnes to replace his scoring contributions.

[OhCanada-Participant]

I see what youre saying but I really dont think that we need to replace his scoring contributions. We need to focus on defense, there are so many players on this team that can score its a joke. Klieza plays the same role as Bargnani offensively, the exact same skill set in different bodies. Same spots on the floor too. Davis and Johnson seem to be improving offensively and quickly. If we can get Kanter and a good SF for Bargnani, or a good SG and play Derozan at SF then we are looking good imo. The current Toronto Raptors could average 100 ppg without Bargnani when the teams healthy.

[OhCanada-Participant]

I see what youre saying but I really dont think that we need to replace his scoring contributions. We need to focus on defense, there are so many players on this team that can score its a joke. Klieza plays the same role as Bargnani offensively, the exact same skill set in different bodies. Same spots on the floor too. Davis and Johnson seem to be improving offensively and quickly. If we can get Kanter and a good SF for Bargnani, or a good SG and play Derozan at SF then we are looking good imo. The current Toronto Raptors could average 100 ppg without Bargnani when the teams healthy.

[Snubs15Participant]

Now that i think about it, the most important player to torontos offense is Jose calderon imo. And i agree actually, Bargnanis scoring can be replaced but to an extent. It would benefit the team to trade him and its so obvious to me its unreal lol. Get a defensive C or SF and draft a good young player with potential and we could fight for playoff spot in the horrible east.

[Snubs15Participant]

Now that i think about it, the most important player to torontos offense is Jose calderon imo. And i agree actually, Bargnanis scoring can be replaced but to an extent. It would benefit the team to trade him and its so obvious to me its unreal lol. Get a defensive C or SF and draft a good young player with potential and we could fight for playoff spot in the horrible east.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Theres a crazy stat I found, I forget how it really is but its something like…In the Last 10 Raptors wins Jose Calderon played in 8 of those games. Calderon averages like 15 assists, 10 points, and a steal in those games. The other 2 games were I think playing Detroit, and the amazing effort they gave against Dallas although Nowitzki was injured…Definitely the most valueable player to the Raptors offense…Although he is probally the most detrimental to the defense aside from Bargnani.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Theres a crazy stat I found, I forget how it really is but its something like…In the Last 10 Raptors wins Jose Calderon played in 8 of those games. Calderon averages like 15 assists, 10 points, and a steal in those games. The other 2 games were I think playing Detroit, and the amazing effort they gave against Dallas although Nowitzki was injured…Definitely the most valueable player to the Raptors offense…Although he is probally the most detrimental to the defense aside from Bargnani.

[Author]

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