Pre-draft athletics tests
I hope this will show everyone how athletic James Harden really is. I dont know why you guys wouldn't trust me.
I know this showed a lot about people's misperceptions even my own against Harbrough. I see him as a poor mans Lee and maybe Nick Collison. I still dont see Ellington moving in the lottery though too many people above him did well. I dont see Henderson overtaking Ellington now though. I will say this though this is not a indicator or if a player is good or not it just confirmed some things we know and showed us some we didnt because you had a player like Ellis who is a top athlete in the league now and he did terrible in the Combines. I guess the people that doubted me when I said Curry was the real deal before all this came out and he showed decent point guard skills. He will go down as one of the best from this year from the get go. I do hope he falls to the Knicks at 8. I think they will help them a lot and they need it.
Sheltwon u made a lot of good points, but i only wanted to give u some insight on Monta Ellis' combine results. He was injured late in his senior year as he was gearing up for the all-star games, etc etc. That's why he tested so badly at the combine & that's also why he slipped into the second round of the draft in 05'. That young man was a beast (& still is) & actually shared the usatoday player of the year award with greg oden that year.
Thanks for pointing out D. Brown eprizzle. I've been trying to pump him up for a while. He won the athlete portion of the combine hands down. Also I owe S. Curry an apology, the guy is gonna be better than I thought in the right situation. Harden definitely is going top 6 while I had him slipping to 9 at first, but I still think it's possible for 1 or 2 GMs to try and get cute and do something stupid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL4qDcL4tmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_08K2wt-5G0&feature=related
(In fact, IIRC that dunk was over Jordan Hill)
When Ellington wants to he can sky above the rim. Sometimes he just becomes too content with his jumpshot although he has gotten much better lately at slashing. I think he is going to have a Courtney Lee impact his rookie season.
why do yall think it is that football players are so much more impressive in explosive athletic tests such as standing vertical leap? (there have been guys in the NFL with no step verts higher than this crops best running vert.) is it because more stock is put into combines in football? is it because weight training is more prevalent in football? or are football players just more explosive athletes as a whole? i've always said that the NBA has the best athletes in the world, but i'm starting to rethink that position. obviously they are much more explosive strength wise, but it seems to be that they just have better athletes. any thoughts?
first off...nfl combine is more about these stats. like running a 4.3 can boost you up quicker in the nfl draft than it would in the nba. So guys who train for the nfl can focus on just that stuff while most of the basketball guys are focusing more on the skill side of it since that will boost them faster than surprising athletic ability that only shows up during the combine (ala tyler)
And for the people who said this proves tyler isn't a stiff? It actually doesn't. Its actually even worse cuz it shows test wise hes a decent athlete for his size (still not above average but not below either) but his vert and speed never shows up in games. Like his vert isn't much different than blake griffins on paper meanwhile we ALLL know blake is a much better athlete just by watching them both play. So does it really help his case that the combine shows hes pretty fast but game take he looks slow and out of shape? no, i'd rather a guy who looks better during a game than a guy who just trained for a month to specifically look good in theres 4-5 drills which isn't hard. Camps all over teach people how to trick these tests like if you pull your shoulder blades together during the reach test, it will shorten your reach alil but give you a few more inches during the vert test when their not pulled together.
I tend to disagree with you about what these numbers say about Hansbrough. I think they DO prove he's not stiff. First of all, Blake Griffin is an athletic freak of nature - it doesn't say anything about anyone else to point out that Griffin is more athletic. So let's leave that comparison alone.
Compare Hansbrough's numbers to some other guys', though, and things become very interesting. He's got better foot speed than Jordan Hill and Earl Clark, for example - two guys who have NEVER been accused of being un-athletic. These numbers also add an objective measure to what he's shown on the court - multiple times, especially this past season, he had a lot of success staying with much faster guards on the perimeter after switching on a screen.
The weight he shed may have helped, but he didn't look like he had real impressive first-step quickness in the tournament. Lane agility is 11.1 sec. - ok, not super-impressive. Not sure how how well that drill measures first-step (as opposed to lateral) quickness, which is most directly related to creating a shot.
But he has clearly done the work and helped himself.
Yeah, Summers is my sleeper too. He looked like he had really good lateral quickness during the season, and with his size he can be an outstanding defender at SF.
I hope Jonny Flynn isnt working his way out of Milwaukee at 10!!! 40 inch vertical man what hasn't this guy done to help his stock?!!! He'd be the perfect fit with the bucks with Redd,Jefferson and Bogut. cut it out jonny we need you here in Milwaukee!!!
Joe Alexander, DJ Strawberry, Dominic James... All players who tested off the charts at the combine. What did Joe Alexander do this past season? NOTHING. DJ Strawberry? Not even in the NBA at this moment. Dominic James? Returned to Marquette. My point is these tests don't mean much when it's all said & done. Look at Kevin Durrant... He tested horrible at the combine (VERY similar to Austin Daye in this years combine) & look at what he's doing now. Other players haven't tested that great either & have gone on to become big time scorers & players. Look at Brook Lopez's testing from last year... It's probably what made him slip in the draft. BIG mistake.
The measurements are just a piece of the puzzle -- however if they contradict impressive performances against top competition, one needn't be too concerned.
For example, Blake Griffin's NCAA tournament performance spoke volumes.
James Harden's did too, not in a good way. Now the GMs must judge whether a slimmed down Harden can be an effective NBA player.
You can train to do good on a event. I am not surprised Flynn had the most hops I think he is a lotto pick, always have. I knew Steph Curry could jump too. Daye is not a NBA player right now and might never be. I knew Harden could jump I just have not seen him play up to a 3rd pick in the draft level when I saw him in the regular season or the post season. We will see how all those test transfer over in the NBA. In football you learn the combine does not mean everything in the league just where maybe you get drafted. Do the guys carry a ball in the speed test drills?
ellington tested great at the combine but henderson is the better leaper. ive seen both dunk and henderson wins hands down. can someone tell me how the combine works? ex. how many chances to test vert. but watch henderson in the 06 mcdonald's dunk contest and tell me ellington can do that same windmill. maybe henderson hangs longer. they should have hang time in the combine. have them do a reverse layup and see how long they r in the air.
Henderson might be a better dunker ( because a dunk also mixes up coordination) Body Coordination is not easy to measure. Example, Bj Mullens throwing Windmills, He tested just ok on the vertical tests for a big man, but he is clearly a very good dunker, it means he has nice body coordination even tough he is not a great leaper.
Add both things together (high jump and coordination) and you have a monster dunker like Lebron or bryant.
P.D throw them together with a low BKB IQ and you have G.Green!!
First I would like to agree with tezo83's comments, I think they were excellent.
Yes these athletic test scores are great for discussions, but how you play the game is what really counts. Having said that, there is one category I found interesting, the Standing vs Vertical Max jumping measurements.
Blake Griffin and Luke Harangody had two of the best discrepancy scores. There was only a 3.5 or 4.0 inch discrepancy for them. In other words, their standing vertical is almost as good as their Max vertical. However, if you check out Chase Budinger, he had a huge 9 inch difference between the two types of jumps
In another message, I'll explain why I think this could have some significance.
No step vertical helps in the explosiveness area, look Derrick rose with 34.5 or Howard.
Standing dunk, Rebounds and first step would be the affected attributes
Max vertical
Helps in the dunking area, specially in transition, also helps after the first step has been taken in a penetration to fly high above the big man trying to block, also helps defensively in transition shot blocking. Rose has also the edge here making 40 inches, so Rose is terribly explosive and a high flyer.
Look Oden numbers 32 no step and 34, looks very similar to Griffin, Good for rebounding and standing dunk purposes.
who tell James Harden is unathletic??he has 37 inch vertical, bench 185 lbs 17 times and he's fast...
Sorry form my english