Peak Kobe vs. Peak T-Mac
Although it wasn't by a wide margin, T-Mac was statistically better than Kobe up through about 2004-05. If you could have either player for one season at the peak of their abilities, who do you take?
I'm taking TMAC tho, his ability to score the ball in Orlando was unreal, plus he had sick handles and crazy athleticism. Also good for 7 boards and 5 assist a game.
Kobe has 5 rings. T-Mac has never made it out of the first round. Why would I ever take T-Mac over Kobe for just one season?
Isn't it about winning?
Looking at the stats are misleading in an argument like this. T-Mac might have equalled Kobe for a certain stretch of his career but Kobe was playing with Shaq during that time and T-Mac was playing with Drew Gooden.
Get the question confused the rings don't matter in this question. It's peak Kobe VS peak T-Mac.
Which player had the best ability at their peak. Of course Kobe winning wise wins, he had Shaq who was an absolute monster back then.
I think the question is more towards game vs game, not rings,accolades etc. Just pure basketball abilities.
I take T-Mac
In terms of skills, very close. In terms of competitors and desire to win, not close. Kobe hands down....
T-Mac in 02-03 > Kobe in 05-06...in short, T-Mac's best season was statistically better than Kobe's.
Unfortunately, during T-Mac's peak years with the Magic, the best player he played with was Darrell Armstrong. He left Toronto before he hit his peak, and then his knees shut down when he joined Yao.
I'll take McGrady.
I don't know of another 6'8-6'9 swingman with his ball-handling ability. He handled the ball like Rose and Paul only he was about half a foot taller than Rose. You add that much size with his elite athleticism along with a nice scoring touch and you get yourself a 30+ppg scorer. He was also an underrated passer, his court vision is pretty incredible when you consider his size. In his athletic prime, he was freakish and averaged nearly 8rpg while playing shooting guard. He's a guy that could you get 50 points easier than anybody in the league because of all of his athletic and physical strengths. Not to mention, the dude is clutch, we're not talking about some guy that could not get it done in the clutch, he loved the clutch, he was unstoppable in the clutch. I'm a firm believe that if T-Mac and Yao would have stayed healthy, they would have won a ring or two.
He and Kobe pretty much revolutionized that SG position in terms of their length. They both have extremely long arms and that's what helps them shoot over smaller guards in fadeaway or turnaround situations.
I also think T-Mac's 13 in 33 is more impressive than Kobe's 81.
13 points in 33 seconds is very impressive, but Kobe scored 81. 81 points!!! The second most in a game all time. I'll take Kobe.
If T-Mac kept up that pace for 48 minutes, he would have scored 1135 points, give or take. That would be far more than the previous single-game record.
That has got to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard? If T-MAC kept the pace of 13 pointsin 33 seconds, I seriously hope your joking
T-Mac also played in a far weaker Eastern Conference at the time. The Western Conference was at its peak when Kobe was killing. Give me Kobe at his peak all day.
I seriously hope YOU'RE joking.
The NBA is the NBA T-Mac torched teams in both conference, T-Mac peak over Kobe peak.
T-MAC all day
T-Mac's stats were better through -04-05 because Kobe was playing with the most dominant center of his generation. The year T-Mac averaged 32 ppg the Magic's 2nd leading scorer who played more than 50 games was Pat Garrity at 10.7 ppg. He had to score that much, just like when Kobe was put in that situation he dropped 35 a better #2 in Lamar Odom.
I think Kobe was the better scorer, the better defender, and has more desire. T-Mac was a better rebounder and a better distributer, but I don't think it's even that close. T-Mac had a great few years, but Kobe is an All-Time great.
Kobe, all day long, even when both players were in their primes.
and I have debated this before. my unbiased answer is, its a toss up. T-Mac was every bit the killer Kobe was at his peak. my personal preference would be T-Mac because I think he was a better team player at his peak.
as a disclaimer however, Kobe has more tunnel vision with the less talent around him but when Kobe has talent he can TRUST, he is just as good all around as T-Mac was.
The original post asked the following question:
If you could have either player for one season at the peak of their abilities, who do you take?
One season means that we are talking about a player on a team throughout the entire season which in my opinion includes the playoffs.
The question wasn't who had the better stats when compared to the other or who would you take in a one on one matchup.
If you had to choose to one of those guys for a season then there should be zero question in anyone's mind that it is Kobe. I'll say it again, he has 5 championship rings. He has only missed the playoffs once in his entire career if I remember correctly all the while T-Mac has struggled to make the playoffs each year and has never made it out of the first round. Sorry guys but this is no contest.
if u really think tmac wouldve kept the pace of 13 points in 33 seconds for a WHOLE game, then u really need to get checked out by a doctor of some sorts
Kobe in his peak lost in the first round of the playoffs and averaged 27.9 PPG, 6.3 RPG, and 5.1 APG
T-Mac in his peak lost in the first round of the playoffs as well and averaged 31.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG, and 4.7 APG
I think them rings Kobe has get to people's head a tad bit too much, Kobe by himself lost in the first round of the playoffs during his peak and didn't even make the playoffs a year before or after that(can't remember)
T-Mac peak numbers are better than Kobe's peak numbers regular season and playoffs.
Kobe is the better player of course, but as far as peak goes T-Mac has him beat.
I think T-Mac no less than Kobe's equal as a scorer, but I believe maybe better. T-Mac never was a guy to shoot every single time. Thats not a diss to Kobe, its just that Kobe's main game is Alpha Dog scorer and when he had no one he could trust he tried to score all the points. T-Mac put Houston on his back against Utah in the playoffs, he could score too, but the way he did it was effortless. Kobe has made some impossible shots, but with lesser talent around him he just seems hellbent on carrying the team scoring wise, like this year and those years dont equal to championships. At the same time in T-Mac, you are talking about a guy who had many games with double figure assist totals. Kobe was not bad either, but as you said, rebounding and assist edge goes to T-Mac. I think if T-Mac had the same durability, his career would have been just as good and fulfilling as Kobe's.
If YOU really think I was being serious that anyone could keep that pace for beyond 33 seconds, then YOU still need to learn to spell out the word YOU.
Are you 11?
People argue that T-Mac's stats were better because he had worse teammates, but then indict because his teams didn't perform well enough in the playoffs. Does anyone see a problem with that?
Young Kobe was viewed as a great talent and a unquestionably selfish teammate( ...kinda like 2011-12 Kobe). He seems like he was able to overcome that thanks to a Hall of Fame center early in his career and he put it aside to win later in his career.
T-Mac never had the same questions, really...but he never had the same teammates either. Put prime T-Mac on any of those Laker teams in place of Kobe and I think they'd still win a championship.
do you have no regard as to who were on the respective player's teams during those playoffs? Kobe is a big time player in the playoffs and has 5 rings, but he didnt do that alone. this post is comparing individually head to head and who you would rather have. thats like saying injuries notwithstanding, T-Mac on the same team with Shaq, Odom, Pau, etc..etc... would get put out of the playoffs.
That all depends on your definition of Kobe in his peak. Just because he averaged the most PPG of his career those two years that doesn't mean it was his peak. Players can have more than just one or two years at their peak. I would argue that Kobe's peak was the three year span from 2007-2010 when he won back to back titles and appeared in a third Finals against the Celtics.
You can't just pick and choose certain years just to make your argument valid.
11 and a half.
Also while T-Mac stats are better all around.
T-Mac shot better from the field in their peak years.
Took better care of the ball in their peak years.
Shot a better 3pt% their peak years.
Had equal amount of steals peak years.
O and played LESS minutes as well.
No, this post isn't comparing invididually head to head. Go back and read the very first question that was asked. Who would you take for one season. Unless you know some league where you can play a one on one head to head season then you have to assume that we are talking about an NBA season with other players around him. T-Mac made other players better no doubt but Kobe has won 5 rings and been to 7 NBA Finals. He is clearly the player I take for one season at their peak.
You can toss out individual stats all you want. We aren't talking about who had better stats. For the umpteenth time. The question is who would you rather have for a single season and for that there is no argument. Kobe...hands down.
Yeah, T-Mac was a great scorer, no doubt. What I loved about T-Mac is that he could pretty much pull up from about anywhere, he had a great mid-range game and a couple of dribbles paired with his size and vert made him pretty unstoppable without even having to cut to the hoop.
I still disagree, though. Although Kobe benefitted from the inside/outside game Shaq provided, he dropped 30 ppg as a 1B option. Shaq didn't hold him back, they were a great duo and won 3 titles together, but if Kobe were playing for the Magic or Rockets I feel he'd be a more prolific scorer than T-Mac was in those scenarios. He had just as good of a mid-range game and, in his prime, was quicker off the dribble and a better slasher.
It's close, it's by no means Kobe by a landslide when it comes to which player was the better scorer, but I feel Kobe still takes the edge.
McGrady was a flat out beast! But give me Kobe. His desire to win is unmatched.
"The question is who would you rather have for a single season and for that there is no argument. Kobe...hands down."
There is actually an argument...see the above posts.
Doesn't anyone remember the Kobe that spent entire games passing the ball to prove how valuable he was?
Anything to change it up just to give Kobe an edge lol
Kobe's peak year is clearly 05-06
dude averaged 35.4 ppg
argubaly shot his best from 3(34% on 6 attempts per game)
got to the free throw line the most he ever has in his career 10.2 attempts per game.
scored 81 points in one game
and scored 62 points in 3 quarters
and won the scoring title
that's his peak, he may not have been winning much, but he was playing the best basketball of his life.
Kobe. Always felt McGrady was overrated as a player, and he had some stinkers in the playoffs.
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Without having to got check which player is which who your taking?
Player A Player B
PPG 31.2 PPG 35.4
RBG 6.5 RPG 5.3
APG 5.5 APG 4.5
Player A Player B
PPG 28 PPG 31.6
RBG 6 RPG 5.7
APG 5.5 APG 5.4
Player A Player B
PPG 25.7 PPG 28.3
RBG 6.2 RPG 6.3
APG 5.7 APG 5.4
When people mention titles as the ultimate criteria for a great player it bugs me at times. If rings are everything then Michael Jordan is NOT arguably the best player ever. If rings are everything, then Horace Grant is BETTER than Malone and Barkley. Forget rings and stats, the question is game for game, who would take. I will answer the question Kobe, because of a killer instinct that is matched by few.
Please people stop harping on rings when it comes to talent. In order to get rings you have to a team no matter how great you are. Oscar Robertson only has one ring, but many mention him as a top 3 player of all-time, why because individually he was as good as anybody to play. Many people say that Lebron is the best in the game today, he has no rings, but he is an extraordinary talent.
Player A is the all around better player, even if its a small margine.
So Player A
The first mistake we are making is our definitions of each player's peak. Peak isn't defined as the best statistical season, but more of the point at which a player arrives as a superstar in this league we call the NBA. Even if you observe the time when both playsrs elevated their games to elite status, you gotta give Kobe the nod. I'm not taking away from T-Mac's game, but Kobe putting on his full aresnal of offense. And defense is ridiculous.
And even if you account stats, Kobe had stupid numbers in most rounds prior to reaching most NBA Finals matchups with his teammates Shaq.
tracy mcgrady every day of my life, always had magic in his hands
Great qeustion, and I would take 03 T-Mac over 03 Kobe, but that's it, Kobe was so great in evry season, even in 03, but a 6-8 shooting guard that can play the three, run the point, distribute, get boards, and score 30 a game, that is amazing, but I would take Kobe every other year.
I understand the ring arguement gets old, but Tracy McGrady played 4 years with, at the time, the best center in the league and never made it out of the first round of the playoffs. It's not just that McGrady has no rings, it's that he's never won a playoff series. That is a big differance. Lebron and AI losing in the Finals is one thing, but winning 50 games and getting dumped in the 1st round year after year isn't the same.
I think Kobe's 5 rings hold more weight in this comparison than they would if we were comparing him to Iverson or Lebron who willed average teams to the NBA Finals.
Yao and T-Mac were rarely heatlhy at the same time. They missed the playoffs when T-Mac was injured most of the season, and Yao missed at least one postseason. Had they had four full injury-free seasons together, I imagine the results would have been different.
McGrady was my favorite player when I first started watching basketball regularly. He was still in Orlando at that point. People say that Carmelo is the best scorer in the NBA right now, but McGrady was every bit the scorer that Melo is, and a better passer and defender to boot (I realize that Melo isn't a part of this discussion, but I'm using him as an example based on what I've heard most NBA experts say about his scoring). It's a shame that injuries to both McGrady and Yao hurt them in the playoffs, and the one time I can remember them both being healthy for a series, they went up to a quick 3-0 and let their foot off the gas. However, Kobe quit in 06 against the Suns, so I'm not going to use "killer instinct" as a way to defend him.
In the end, you honestly couldn't go wrong choosing either, to be honest. I'd choose McGrady just because I'm biased. If we we're choosing based on legacy, though, then there's no debate to be had.
where Tmac killed Kobe, both in their primes. Kobe would not guard him while T Mac guarded Kobe the whole game. Kobe may have been slightly beyond prime but not by much. However T mac having no sucess in the playoffs ever...ever... is the best reason to go with Kobe. How can you take a guy at his peak when he doesnt win at the apex of the sport? McGrady always had good playoff numbers and showed cockyness in guaranteeing a series win before, so I give him credit, though. I have disgusted people all the time when I mention how I fill Garnet might be as good or better (yeah I said it) than Duncan. Team is sucess is how we ultimately judge guys. If Lebron wins 5, 6, or 7 he's compared to Kobe and Jordan. If he wins one, then he wont be. Wilkins, Garnet, TMac were as good as the top players all time but no team sucess no talk of greastest, point blank. Reluctantly got to go with the Mamba.
Passing toss up
Rebounding toss up
Free Throws Garnet
Great organization, rings, teamates (Drob, S. Elliot, Tparker, MGinobli, RC Buford) vs. (Cassel Good player but me first,Sprewell, WSwerbiak, McHale) Duncan, Duncan, Duncan.
Not many elite wings get to play with 20/10 centers and during two playoff runs McGrady got to. Injuries did hurt both of their legacies, but I'm not buying it as an excuse as to why Tracy never got out of the 1st round.
The Orlando experiment was a failure due to Grant Hill's ankle, but they were undable to move past very average Buck and Hornet teams.
Both Ming and McGrady were healthy for the 04-05 playoffs and the 06-07 playoff where Yao dropped 25 and 10. The West was strong back then, but I just can't get past the fact McGrady has never won a playoff series when comparing him to 5 time NBA Champion Kobe Bryant.
I know this topic originally started out as which player would you choose during their prime and not who has the better career, so I'll bow out of this side tangent, but that is my opinion on that matter.
when you do strictly a numbers view, its still too close to call. player b looks like the better scorer on paper but player a looks like the better rebounder and assist guy. this is why I hate just comparing on paper because there are so many other variables, starting with teammates.
as far as the question being for one season, I still stick with my answer. non-biased, its a toss up because they were virtually even. personally, I go with T-Mac.
another thing that gets really old here.....Kobe's competitiveness and desire to win. Although it cant be overstated (because he got that from MJ).... when other players are compared, they will never measure up in people's minds and that in fact is underrating. Greg Oden can have the most competitive fire and will to win, but we may never know it if he doesnt get healthy. Kobe is a winner no doubt, but there are other players who hate to lose just as bad and love to win just as much....circumstances may be different though.
check this out though....and tell me what you think of this argument....
if you argument is that T-Mac never got past the 1st round then let's look at when Kobe didnt succeed in the playoffs.
now if T-Mac never got past 1st round, it doesnt matter who was on his team, its irrelevent because the fact is he never did, but this fact should not be used as some sort of implication that Kobe could.
Kobe never won a playoff series without All Star talent around him. Unless you want to count Odom as All Star level, which I would say he was, but even with him, he did NOT win a series.
Post Shaq-Pre Gasol years, the Lakers didnt make it to the playoffs one year and the other two got put out by the Suns 1st round. So any notion that Kobe can do more than anyone else without help around him is unfounded. Likewise with MJ. His Bulls were never above .500 until Pippen and Grant joined the team.
Anyone remember Game 7 of that 2006 series vs. the Suns?