New Shabazz comparison
Site changes Bazz from Michael Kidd-Gilchrist to Kerry Kittles/ Latrell Sprewell. Is this a good comparison? I think Shabazz Muhammad is probably one of the hardest prospects to compare to someone. The best comparison i've heard so far came from someone who said he was like JR Rider.
like the stackhouse comparison
welcome to the forum!
Yeah it's true he's hard to compare. i never really saw him as a kidd-gilchrist other than as a physical specimen for his respective position. However bazz is a scorer, whilst gilk's an athlete who so happens to have limited offensive firepower. bazz is a good defender to say the least but gilk is a shutdown type. he is very hard to compare. I thought in highschool his james harden comparison was pretty accurate but something happened to him since then, looks like he declined (i think this was said before on the forum). either way i see him as being successful at the next level no matter where he is talent wise, because of his work ethic. the only problem i have with him is that we've seen some bad bahavior that shows he's a very self centered, individualistic person and my fear is that he tries to mimic someone like kobe bryant. to behave like a in his prime kobe would if team mates don't pass himm the ball in clutch when in college is a red card. He is going to have to be grounded someway cause he won't get those looks as much when playing at the next level. he plays like if a team should be built around him, he wants to be the star, so the worse the team talent wise, the better for him. he is a first, has the mentality of a very confident scorer at the top of his career whilst playing alright. he needs to learn there is better than him.
I hate the Sprewell comp because Spree could create more off the dribble.
I was looking at highly ranked prospects in the past 15 or so years and the closest scouting report I've found is Paul Pierce, with some Caron Butler mixed in. His ball handling is his biggest impediment to becoming an All Star, but his scoring instincts are elite.
His attack mentality far exceeds his ability to attack, like a baseball who's fast, but gets caught alot because his fundamentals are wrong. Train Bazz in ball handling only, and you've got an all star. His shot, strength and first step are that good.
I think its safe to say Muhammad has the attitude of a young kobe which can be a double edged sword
I honestly think he needs that type of attitude on a team like UCLA, players on UCLA are noticeably soft and nonathletic. Kyle Anderson is liability on defense, Tony Parker is out of shape, Wear Twins play pretty soft. In high school he had a killer instinct when it came to scoring in the clutch, he even displayed that somewhat in the game versus Missouri hitting two big threes when it mattered. With that being said, I do feel like his game somewhat declined and I honestly think that has a little to do with him putting some weight on. Sophomore and Junior year he was extremely quick and was still strong for his age and position. Senior year he had major bounce and was still quick. Freshman year of college, seems like he's lost a step in his athleticism. I don't even know if I like the JR Rider comparison because JR Rider could get to the basket and slam in traffic, doesn't even look like Bazz can get off the ground like he can. I think of he shed's his weight and gets to the physique he had during his Senior year off-season, he can dominate the NBA in a similar way he did high school.
I been saying the same thing, UCLA's workout plan consists of finger push ups at the vending machine.
When he gets out of their lounge room and back into a weight room he will go back to being a rock solid athlete again. What made him project so well in HS was his motor and explosiveness. UCLA has a history of this not show casing guys athleticism like Westbrook and Jrue Holiday.
Maybe in the end its worth it because maybe UCLA and Howland slows them down and they are more prepared mentally. NBA draft guys used to call it the Howland effect or something where you project a guy from a Ben Howland coached team higher than his stats would seem.
he shows uncanny scoring instincts that cant be taught , he needs to work on creating for himself and his ball handling , but he already displays good footwork with his jab steps and spin moves, im still very high on him and think he should be a top 2 pick this year which now a lot of members on this site are backing away from. As for a comparison im still not sure...
What people forget is that Muhammed sat out the first 6games and he still managed to come back lead the team in scoring and pretty much turn the season around. Without Muhammed this team doesn't make the tourney he single handley made UCLA win vs. Missouri. He is going to be an all star a lot of players get bogged down by the closed in game at the college level. He's averaging 18 and 5 as a collegw freshman with limited off season practice. If I need a Sg in the draft I select him and watch him prove daughters wrong. One thing you can't factor in killer instinct. He got he has that Kobe mentality to be great. They said he couldn't shoot and now he's shooting 42percent from 3. Doubt him if you want he is the best talent in this draft. Let's not forget he dropped like 33 on Andrew Wiggins in last years hoop summit.
but he was 12-27 shooting the ball. The 2nd most field goal attempts on the team was by Kyle Anderson with 13. Dude is kind of a black hole. Also, it is too early to tell if that 3 point % is going to translate to the pros. Remember Derrick Williams shot like 60% from 3 the year he got drafted?
Has there been a more scrutinized freshman in recent memory? Dude leads his conference in scoring as a FRESHMAN; yeah he has holes in his game but so does every other freshman, when was the last time there was a complete player to come out of college?
I don't know if he was more scrutinized but Harrison Barnes in his Freshman year was scrutinized a lot.
The crazy thing is Ben McLemore has more holes in his game but do to his team winning more games everyone is saying he's number one.
I've watched BMac and to me he's overhyped, yeas he's a fabulous shooter but his random disappearing act that he does in big games scares me; bazz is just a cold blooded scorer that shows up late in games, he put a fork in Missouri earlier this year and I watched him score 8 of his teams last 13 points to win against Stanford. The way Kansas players translate to the NBA worries me also
but I see Wesley Matthews in Shabazz. Big bodied 2 guard who can hit outside shots. I don't see how people are seeing a great scorer/player in Shabazz. He doesn't have a great handle, has a decent first step, isn't very explosive, not a great passer, has decent lateral agility and defensively isn't great. He has a good motor, length, and is crafty but I don't see him being a really great scorer at the next level.
McLemore and Shabazz are fairly similar prospects. The strength of their offensive games is spot up shooting on the move. Neither are guys you give the ball to on the wing and just let create in iso or screen situations. They both have to improve their handles in halfcourt situations. I'd rate their handles in the C+/B- minus range right now.
Of the two, I'd say McLemore has a few more positives. For one, he's a surprisingly excellent coast to coast ballhandler. I can't recall someone whose ballhandling was considered so-so being such a fluid and fast ballhandler on the break. He's a major threat when he grabs a rebound or gets an outlet and decides to turn on the jets. Shabazz doesn't have this element to his game. McLemore also has a huge advantage in steals and blocks. That might not be meaningful but McLemore's defensive stats put him in fine company historically but Shabazz's few steals and blocks put him with a lot of busts. Shabazz would be one of the few prospects who became good NBA players after putting up such meager defensive totals.
Shabazz reminds me of Glenn Robinson. He's a better prospect than Mclemore IMO. Put Shabazz on Kansas and Mclemore on UCLA and people opinions will shift
Shabazz isn't. I'll take McLemore every time. Better defender, better athlete, better shooter, better handle.
What's crazy is Shabazz was a freak athletically like 9 months ago.
so you are saying he was a Terrence Ross, John Wall, Blake Griffin athlete 9 months ago and now all of the sudden he isn't. good one. You guys were just watching his mix tapes and high school games where he was on different cameras / playing against worse athletes which made him look more athletic than he really is. If you watched the Nike Hoops Summit or any game at UCLA this year ( I've watched almost every one) then you realize that he isn't a great athlete. He is good, but not in the upper echelon. If you think Shabazz is a freak athletically then you literally haven't watched him this year. Could you Shabazz lovers send me a play from this season where Shabazz is "explosive" or freakish. There are plenty of scouting videos of him online, show me the play.......
hint: you won't be able to find one
Not sure who u are talking to, I haven't seen anyone suggest that bazz has displayed any kind of exceptional athleticism in college.
the forum where the J-rich comparison was made. But still, even on this forum we have Stackhouse comparisons. Stackhouse used to be a freak. But I was also responding to the guy who said its funny that Shabazz was a freak 9 months ago. I assumed at first he was being sarcastic and was basically saying if he was 9 months ago how is he not one now, but now I feel like he could have been serious and was saying that Shabazz actually used to be a freak but isn't now for some odd reason. I guess my overall gripe is with everyone who keeps writing/saying that Shabazz is "electrifying" and "explosive", the most notable being Chad Ford. I keep seeing it everywhere and it is extremely annoying.
Will be a good pro but I don't see him being a great scorer on a good team. If he scores 20 everynight the teams losing. He is a 13-16 a night guy with good size to guard the 2,3 position. Yes he could score a lot on a bad team.
I've been a little up and down on Bazz this season. I was very un-impressed early in the year when he showed up overweight, but as he got his legs he produced very well throughout the non-conference schedule including the afformentioned Missouri game.
That being said, I really weigh the conference schedule as a large part of my player evaluation. It is then, where they get ( In major conference cases like Bazz ) major conference opponents twice a week, where everyone has done plenty of scouting and there is conference pride at stake.
Shabazz has not really been the efficient scorer with a killer instinct in since Pac 12 play begun. People still tout his shooting percentages, but they've been plummeting since conference play has started.
Take a look at Shabazz's PAC 12 numbers.
17.7 ppg 5.7 rpg 1 apg 42% FG 36% 3 PT 70% FT
Those numbers have significantly dropped since going against Major Conference D1 teams every night, not so much in points, but how he gets those points. Scoring 17.7 ppg on 15.8 shots, is not good. Nor is shooting 42% as a 6'6'' big bodied guard. This is not just 1 or 2 games, but 13, a major chunk of the season. The really good prospects seem to up their games or stay constant agaisnt conference competition. Bazz has really not been impressive. Good, yes, but not top 3 good.
Your post got me interested so I looked up shabazzs stats vs teams currently projected to make the NCAA tournament as at large seeds according to Joe lunardi to see how bazz does vs higher comp since u suggest he declines in performance vs better comp.
So in 9 games against Georgetown, San Diego state, mizzu, cal x2, col, oreg, Arizona, and Arizona state, he averages 16.9 points on 46%fg and 41%3pt
His points drop a bit, but the percentages are right there as normal.
He was also shooting 50% fg and 50% 3pt during the non-conference. His current 46% and 42% are a result of his conference shooting slump. Of course sampling a few games from the non-conference schedule and a few games from the conference schedule will result in numbers similar to his current averages.
It doesn't change the fact that over the last 13 conference games, he's shooting 41% from the feild and 36% from 3. He's had some big games against good teams, but I weigh the conference heavily because 2 games a week against a major conference opponent with good scouting and a title on the line is more similar to the NBA than playing Prarie View A@M one night and Missouri another. In conference play, Shabazz has had good games, but overall he has not been an efficicent offensive player. Shabazz is the type of guy who can put up a good game against a good team, he has that talent, but he has not been top 3 good during the conference schedule, scoring 17.7 points on 15.8 shots is not impressive.
His season fg% is almost exactly the same as his fg % vs top teams. Your argument that his season stats are not indicative of his stats vs top comp just doesn't exist. Just like your previous argument of his rebounding is inferior to mclemores despite stats suggesting otherwise. Just admit when you're wrong.
You're getting way too defensive. I was highlighting his play in PAC-12 play. I stated facts. You made a different point highlighting all of the NCAA tournament teams. I'm not wrong about his PAC-12 numbers. They are correct.
Is it that difficult for you to accept that Shabazz has not been an efficient scorer during conferene play?
"those numbers have dropped since going against major confer d1 level teams".,. Those are your words and they clearly imply that shabazz's stats drop vs higher comp. I presented stats that show they really don't. I wasn't arguing your opinion thathis stats have dropped in conference play. I argued about level of comp which you brought up. Why would stats vs Utah, wazzu and Oregon st mean more then stats vs mizzu SD st, and Georgetown?
Either way, it ain't that serious. I have belief in bazz because he is a ucla player and when people criticize him, which is routine on here, I accept it and move on as long as it makes sense. But you have brought up a few stats that don't add up.
i think we have to go back in time to make a good comparison of shabazz because the game has changed and his game resembles more the way some guards played back then.
i´ve read some comparisons like i.rider, j.richardson or kittles that i really don´t understand because their games and physical features are totally different..
in my opinion shabazz´s game resembles more to players like r,jefferson, adrien dantley or b.king, that is to say, scorers that could not create with their dribbling, that move a lot without the ball, that operate in the low post, that love to run fastbreaks and score in transitions and that can shoot from mid range.
but we cannot make a good comparison with the players i just named because they are different from a physical standpoint.
shabazz is bigger and stronger than dantley, way less athletic than jefferson and shorter than king.
and that is why i think that shabazz best comparison is a lefty version of mark aguirre.
both are 6´5-6´6 G-F, bigs and strongs, not super athletics but with nice athleticism, not explosives but powerfulls, with great motor, they operate a lot in the low post taking advantage of their strength, move a lot without the ball, score in bunches in fastbreaks and transitions, shoot well from mid range, love to attack the rim releasing the ball with 1 hand, not very good passers, both play with passion.
probably shabazz won't have the numbers aguirre had but one thing is sure , and that is, he has the same scoring instincts.
here a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQGvJhmHXs
"those numbers have dropped since going against major confer d1 level teams EVERY NIGHT" ....THOSE ARE MY WORDS
I said multiple times that the everyday conference drain against teams in with major scouting reports and a title at stake are why I rate conference play highly. You just read what I said and took it the wrong way because Shabazz plays for your team. I'm not picking on your little brother, I'm stating my opinion. You don't like it, fine, but that doesn't make my opinion wrong. Even your example of "my quote" you excluded the next two words to try to make my statement fit in to your reaction.
The fact Shabazz has struggled with efficiency during conference play is criticism, but it's not wrong.
I was wrong about the "per minute" rebounding numbers while comparing McLemore to Shabazz, but the fact of the matter is that Shabazz is a better per minute rebounder by a .172 to .168 margin, but what that really means is that if both players played exactly 30 minutes per game it would take Shabazz 8 games to grab one more rebound. I was wrong, I admitted it, but bringing that back is pretty petty.
As for his stats, i have little doubt that your intent was about level of comp and not playing twice a week vs conference comp. As for the previous rebounding debate, no u did not admit you were wrong. After you stated how superior a rebounder Ben was because he averaged 0.3 rebounds more per game and I called you out for that, you resorted to saying I was nitpicking your vocab and Ben was just a flat out better rebounder. I then brought in the per minute rebound stats and you disappeared. It's funny because you accused me of nitpickingyour vocab for saying but you going on about how SUPERIOR a rebounder someone is because of 0.3 rebounds per game is pretty much the definition of nitpicking. I actually would have never brought it up aging you just admitted you were wrong and admitted it.
And by the way, analyzing a player through conference is a very normal way of evaluation. Why can't you admit Shabazz hasn't been an efficient scorer during his last 14 games, now. You were a prick to me for no other reason than you're a Shabazz homer, so why don't you admit his conference stats are not efficient.
Oh, so you can read my mind now. Your oversuspicion is getting pretty ridiculous.
I'll admit that, per minute Bazz is a better rebounder, by a slight margin. I was just frustrated people kept twisting my words on this thread. Inferior means less, by any margain and I never said Bazz was a bad defender.
Vote up!Vote down!
If that's not admitting I was wrong, I don't know what is, but hey, I'm done with this. Go back to watching the UCLA game.