[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Let’s try something a little different. Who will be the top ten players at the END of the 2011-12 NBA season?

 

[WinterSoldierParticipant]

 1. Lebron James

 2. Kevin Durant

 3. Dwayne Wade

 4. Dwight Howard

 5. Blake Griffin

 6. Kobe Bryant

 7. Derrick Rose

 8. Deron Williams

 9. Chris Paul

 10. Carmelo Anthony

 

[Wavy BagelsParticipant]

1. Kevin Durant – I see him finally getting more assertive in his game and return to his scoring ways from the 09-10 season.

2. Lebron James – Could easily be #1 as well, but I think Durant will be more significant for his team

3. Dwight Howard – I think he’s gonna average 25+ ppg this season.

4. Dwyane Wade

5. Chris Paul – Should be playing like a stud since coming off that incredible playoff performance last season.

6. Kobe Bryant – A guy who will benefit from the lockout by resting, and coming off a semi-final sweep, someone will be seeking victory or bust all season long.

7. Deron Williams

8. Dirk Nowitkzi

9. Blake Griffin – The Clips might not have a winning season, but I do see a sharp increase in wins compared to last year. I expect him to look to score in the post and not try to make the Sportscenter top 10 every time.

10. Kevin Love – The Wolves might not have a winning season, but I think love will improve defensively and become a better leader.

[Michael.S.Participant]

I think Wall will be a top 10 player at the end of the season..

In no specific order

Rose, James, Wade, Howard, Paul, Durant, Bryant, Wall, Griffin, Nowitzki

[JaeEvolutionParticipant]

Dwyane Wade

Lebron James

Dwight Howard

Dirt Nowitzki

Chris Paul

Kobe Bryant

Derrick Rose

Kevin Durant

Deron Williams

Amare Stoudemire

Kevin Love and John Wall top 10? I’m not doubting their potential or skills at all, but you can name 10-15 guys better than those two, or will be better than those two by seasons end.

[alex23Participant]

 1, lebron james

2. dwight howard

3. dwyane wade

4.kobe bryant

5.Kevin Durant

6. Chris Paul

7. Derrick Rose

8. Dirk Nowitzki

9. Blake Griffin

10. Deron Williams

kevin durant is a great player and all but i dont think hes even in the top 3

[BlazermannParticipant]

I’m predicting Kevin Durant for MVP and Russel Westbrook as starter on west all star team

[Steven]

 rsharpe… your list wasnt very thoughtful… you left off rose!!

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

1 – jimmer

2 – jimmer

3 – jimmer

4 – jimmer

5 – jimmer

6 – jimmer

7 – jimmer

8 – jimmer

9 – jimmer

10 – jimmer

[mamadouParticipant]

Almost….

Melo-stat will be a dynamic, dynamite duo at 50 PPG.

[llperez]

1-lebron james

2-kobe bryant

3-dwayne wade

4-kevin durant

5-derrick rose

6-dirk nowitzki

7-dwight howard

8-chris paul

9-deron williams

10-zach randolph/pau gasol/blake griffin…..cant decide how to rank these 3

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@llperez

Dwight Howard is the most dominant paint protector and rebounder in the NBA. He still has work to do on offense, but if last season was any indication, he’s on his way to becoming a very good (I won’t say dominant) offensive player as well. Why do you have him ranked so low?

[GrandmamaParticipant]

1.  Lebron James

2.  Kevin Durant

3.  Dwayne Wade

4.  Dwight Howard

5.  Derrick Rose

6.  Kobe Bryant

7.  Dirk Nowitzki

8.  Chris Paul

9.  Carmelo Anthony

10.  Blake Griffin

[llperez]

most of dwights offense comes from the team trying to keep him happy. I dont view him nearly the same type of offensive big as guys like ewing, robinson, shaq,olajuwon with the best centers of the last few decades. His rebounding and defense are great, but i dont trust going to him. If i want to win a 7 game series, i would take the other guys above him based on the fact i could lean on them to make the big plays and lead my team more so then him. Besides, i dont think putting him 7th is a slap in the face in any way. I mean its real close amongst my top 8-9 guys with very little seperation. dirk really impressed me and was the most unsoppable player in the playoffs last season. Rose should only get better and puts unbelievable pressure on defenses with his abilty to push the ball. I think kobe bounces back a little with a shorter season and the bad taste last seasons playoffs left in his mouth. Lebron, wade and durant are all unbelievable scorers who take over games. Would you say any of those 6 guys are clearly below howard?

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

My best guess:

1. LeBron James

2. Kevin Durant

3. Dwyane Wade

4. Kobe Bryant

5. Dwight Howard

6. Derrick Rose

7. Dirk Nowitzki

8. Chris Paul

9. Carmelo Anthony

10. Blake Griffin

 

Mine for beginning of 2011-12

1. LeBron James

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Dwyane Wade

4. Kevin Durant

5. Dwight Howard

6. Dirk Nowitzki

7. Derrick Rose

8. Chris Paul

9. Carmelo Anthony

10. Deron Williams

Have to give yours now, Indiana.

[iguapops420Participant]

 List don’t matter to me, because come April, when LAL wins the title, Kobe will get that Finals MVP and nothing else will matter. You know he he’s reading all of this off-season washed up talk and taking it personal. No way he’s not gunning for blood, and usually, his second half of season are traditionally better. Not to mention there has been a LOT of off time for him to get into the proper shape needed. he had almost no time to get into his normal shape last offseason like he normally would. Expect the mamba to strike countless times this year until the league has given in to his title hopes.

[jeff416Participant]

1. Lebron James

2. Dwight Howard

3. Kevin Durant

4. Dwyane Wade

5. Derrick Rose

6. Kobe Bryant

7. Chris Paul

8. Dirk Nowitzki

9. Carmelo Anthony

10. Blake Griffin

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@llperez

Those were good points about Dwight Howard. He’s made improvements, but he’s definitely not a go-to offensive player.

@mikeyvthedon

I’ll post my top ten very soon… Having trouble making my mind up lol.

 

 

[lalailaParticipant]

1.LeBron

2.Durant

3.Howard

4.Wade

5.Rose

6.Griffin

7.Melo

8.Bryant

9.Westbrook

10.CP3 

[joecheck88Participant]

1) Lebron James

2) Kevin Durant

3) Dwayne Wade

4) Dwight Howard

5) Derrick Rose

6) Kobe Bryant

7) Dirk Nowitzki

8) Chris Paul

9) Blake Griffin

10) Amare Stoudemire

[mcbaileyParticipant]

 1.) Kevin Durant

 

2.) Dwayne Wade

 

3.) LeBron James

 

4.) Dwight Howard

 

5.) Dirk Nowitzki

 

6.) Carmelo Anthony

 

7.) Blake Griffin

 

8.) Derrick Rose

 

9.) Chris Paul

 

10.) Kobe Bryant

 

Basically, I think it’s Durant’s year. Blake Griffin keeps it going, and Dwayne Wade outshines LeBron.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

1. LeBron James – This is his 8th season and with an improved post game, it could be his best… Maybe not statistically, but just complete offensive game wise.

2. Dwyane Wade – He’ll be 30 years old soon and he’s an old 30 considering all of the knee, shoulder and wrist injuries, but he doesn’t look to be slowing down too much. A shortened season could allow him a stronger finish and avoid some of the late season injuries he usually gets.

3. Dirk Nowitzki – During the playoffs last season, he played like he knew he was unstoppable offensively. That’ll continue this season, while being very solid in the other areas. He could start the season a little slow, but I think this is where he ends up. He’s not the youngest guy, but his game has never been dependent on quickness, speed and athleticism.

4. Dwight Howard – He’s not a go-to offensive player just yet, but his impact at both ends is felt tremendously. I expect his offensive development to continue this season.

5. Kevin Durant – There’s no doubt he’ll lead the league in scoring this season, but I think his game takes a huge step forward in other areas. He’ll play with a more aggressive attitude this season… I think the loss to the Mavs left a bitter taste in his mouth.

6. Derrick Rose – The loss to the Heat was humbling. I think he trained with that on his mind all summer and we all know he gets better every season. His statistics might not say it, but he’ll be a more well rounded and smarter player this season. Better shooting, passing (not just getting assists, but making the right passes at the right time) and defending.

7. Kobe Bryant – 33 and 15. No, that’s not points and assists…That’s his age and amount of years he’s been in the league. There’s no doubt he’s on the decline. I don’t care who you are… You can’t run from time and an arthritic knee for forever. Still, he got enough rest this summer and has enough competitive motivation to put together a strong season.

8. Chris Paul – Once meniscus is gone, it’s gone, but his knee will be stronger this season than the last. He’ll have a great season, but it won’t resemble the MVP seasons he had in 2007-08 and 2008-09.

9. Deron Williams – I’m expecting a great season. He’s anxious to put last season behind him. His wrist is 100% healthy and he’ll start the season in amazing shape.

10. Zach Randolph – Complete game offensively and he’s a go-to offensive player down the stretch. Great rebounder. He is where he is supposed to be defensively. Developing into a great leader.

[The Scare Crow ReturnsParticipant]

Point Guard

Chris Paul

Derrick Rose

Deron Williams

Russell Westbrook

Jrue Holiday

Rajon Rondo

Tony Parker

John Wall

Stephan Curry

Brandon Jennings

Honorable Mention…Nash,Kidd,Billups,Lawson and Felton…

Final thoughts…Paul holds on to best Pg honor and Rose/Williams and Westbrook continue to make strong cases for themselves as well, All four of those guys are All stars no doubt…I beieve Jrue Holiday will prove to be a top tier Pg as well and has the best overall package of offense/defense and playmaking ability after those 4, he’ll egde out the Rondo’s and Wall’s with his scoring/rebound and superior defense…Curry and Jennings are too much of a defensive liabilty at this point to put them above Holiday/Rondo/Wall, Tony’s offense puts him above Wall,Curry and Jennings

 

Shooting Guard

Kobe Bryant

D.Wade

Monta Ellis

Eric Gordon

Joe Johnson

James Harden

Tyreke Evans

Manu Ginoboli

Kevin Martin

Oj Mayo

Honorable mention…Ray Allen,Jamal Crawford,Nick Young,Demar Derozen and Evan Turner…

Final Thoughts…Kobe will continue to be challenged by Wade as the best Sg and Ellis and Gordon will score a lot of points and net tons of steals, they along with a peaking Joe Johnson make up my top 5, after that the door is open for Evans/Harden and Martin to climb and maybe take over Joe’s spot if he happens to play underwhelming basketball, Mayo and Manu are my wildcards as if Manu is healthy is No doubt the 3rd or 4th best Sg in the NBA IMO, Mayo has a lot to prove, as he is in a contract year and could be a featured player in the Offense in Memphis or a new team(Cavs,Wolves,Nets and Bulls have all been interested in Mayo’s talents) Ray Allen, who although still a very good shooter and athlete he’ll be one year older and playing a lot of B2B games this season which may wear him down, Crawford will continue his tour of the NBA as a scoring G and the young guns try to cement their places on their Teams…

 

Small Forward

Lebron James

Kevin Durant

Carmelo Anthony

Rudy Gay

Andre Iguadola

Danny Granger

Paul Pierce

Wilson Chandler

Luol Deng

Danilo Gallinari

Honorable Mention…G.Wallace, Jeff Green,Dorell Wright,Thad Young and Nicolas Batum…

Final thought…After the top 3 it becomes a subjective view of value, scorers like Gay and Pierce may take 4 and 5, but a balance of of overall players like Iggy,Granger,Chandler and Deng round out the list, Gallinari is my wild card as I think he’ll be putting up big stats in Denver now that Smith,Martin and Nene are headed into Free Agency…although I think Paul Pierce slips a bit due to age and a shortened season with a lot of B2B games he’ll likely still be a top 5 Sf thus bumping Iggy or Gay out of most people’s list, but age as to catch up to us all and Pierce may be on the decline after a year like this…Any one of the guys in my Honor Roll could get the 10th spot if Gallo goes down with an Injury, as has been the case throughout Gallo’s career but I’m picking Jeff Green and Thad Young to have breakout seasons

I’ll be back with my Top 10 Power Forward and Center lists…

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Eric Gordon as a top five shooting guard? Oh boy have you come full circle lol.

[The Scare Crow ReturnsParticipant]

I always said Gordon was an exellent player, you and I disagreed on the Mayo/Gordon topic when I argued that Gordon’s injury concerns out weighed his ability to lead a team in Scoring, I liked Mayo for the same reason’s you liked Gordon minus the Injury concerns…

I think Gordon is a strong,athletic finisher and one of the emerging all around Scorers in the League, no doubt in my mind he’s a Top 3 Sg(I like him more than Monta, Ellis’s PPG just gives him the edge in the court of public opinion)

I absolutely have faith in Mayo’s abilty as a scorer and defender as well, if he ever gets IT, he’ll be a top 10 Sg for years along with Gordon…

I admit that Eric has made the Mayo/Gordon debate a fore gone conclusion, Gordon has broken out and is on the verge of putting up a An all Star caliber tour of the NBA…His involvment with Team USA gave him the confidence to play at a very high level and I think that will continue barring any more Injuries…

 

Now Indiana bBall and other draftnet heads, how’s my list, Do you think I made any major mistakes or Ommissions…gonna start my Top 10 Pf’s and C’s in a few minutes…

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

If you are doing the rankings in order, and putting Jrue Holiday in front of Rajon Rondo, than I am flat out confused Scarecrow (after the whole, "Rondo being the best true PG" discussion the other day). I think that Gerald Wallace is definitely ahead of Wilson Chandler-on. Not to mention, will Wilson Chandler even be playing this year due to his signing in China? Yes, I am a Blazers fan, but Gerald is every bit the defender that Wilson is and Gallinari is nowhere near that level. Luol Deng has a better midrange game, but Gerald has that explosiveness that also makes him one of the better rebounding SF’s in the NBA.

I have the hardest time saying that Monta Ellis is the best SG behind Kobe and Dwyane Wade. He is a very explosive scorer, but he has yet to get the Warriors close to the atmosphere of a winning team. I like Eric Gordon, and even Joe Johnson better, especially at the end of the season. Johnson was not great last season, but I still feel you have more of a team with Johnson as your best player as opposed to Ellis. Guess we do not know if that is the case with Gordon, but I feel he is much stronger and a better defender than Ellis. Monta is a fantastic athlete and quick as anything, but I feel he is almost like a Gilbert Arenas in that you can only go so far with him as your team leader. He is not as much of a chucker as Gilbert and I think his attitude is better, but I do not see Monta being the guy after Kobe and Wade. Don’t think he is now and I am guessing I will probably feel much the same thing at the end of the season.

Now, as long as you do not rank Joakim Noah as the second best Center in the NBA, than I look forward to seeing your list. Unless Noah improves drastically and moves ahead of (in no particular order) Nene, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut, Al Horford (if you consider him a Center, which he seems to play), Al Jefferson (though, I am not completely sold on him as a C. Not to mention, Amare Stoudemire is a PF) and Tyson Chandler (depending on injury), than I think he is vastly overrated by most posters on here. He is a solid rebounder and works very hard, but he is so incredibly raw offensively and I think people completely overlooked just how poorly he played against the Heat.

People keep knocking Boozer, and he was pretty awful throughout a majority of the play-offs, but Noah was weak sauce in the Heat series. 6 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.8 bpg, 31.7% FG (Plus making 1 of 2 FT’s in 4 out of 5 games and attempting none in the other) in those 5 games. I know that Noah is not depended on as a major source of offense, but not getting in double digits in any of the 5 games, plus shooting as poorly as he did with an obvious lack of aggression near the basket, I think that we can agree that is a little disappointing. The Heat were a team that got burned by many a big and Joel Anthony, while not a horrible defender, is not exactly a lock down guy. Plus, if Bosh is supposedly "soft", than what did that make Noah in this series?

Plus, as Boozer was a monster defensive liability, Noah got a lot of Bosh duty. Well, Bosh burned him constantly. I like Noah, he is an above average starting Center, but he will need to make MAJOR improvements before being called the 2nd best Center in the league. Not saying you will rank him there, but I know I have seen others rank him there RIGHT NOW, which I think, is crazy. I am not hating on Noah, I think he has a great work ethic and a lot of positive things to offer, but if you are going to flip on people for not playing well in the play-offs or not getting things done when it mattered, Noah certainly fit the bill against the Heat. Just wanted to give my opinion there before you made your C rankings.

[The Scare Crow ReturnsParticipant]

1. I do believe Rondo is a Top Tier Pure Pg, but taking into account who he has to rely on to complete the other end of the Assist, I think he’ll look a notch Holiday at the end of the Year…If I were to perdict the future production of both I’d say that Holiady and rondo would average at least the same amount of Assists,Rebounds and blocks per game, I’d give the edge to Rondo in the Steals department and would easily take Holiday’s 16 to 20 ppg this season over Rondo’s more than likely 10 to 13 points per game…Holiday’s offensive skills set is miles ahead of Rondo’s at this point Holiday is only getting better as he gets stronger/older/wiser…He is also a better Man to defender than Rondo

Breakdown

Ppg-Holiday…Holiday has uped his scoring since his 1st season and this could be a breakout year…I can see him getting 15 plus points per game easy, I’m not going to be shocked if he exceeds that by 2 or 3 points either…Rondo is recovering from a nasty injury and has never been a force on offense, where he was at his best was when the Boston Big 3 was firing on all cynlinders and the supporting cast played above their level of talent, Rondo’s monster games in the playoffs came while the Team struggled as they were running on old legs and on borrowed time…

Rpg-Even…This will go to whoever’s teammates struggle shooting in a 66 game season filled with B2B games(more likely the aging Boston Celtics, although Philly is young and could also struggle for stretches)

Apg-Even…Again who do you see struggling to find points this, a team that trys to grind it out and slow it down as Boston will likely be or a Young fast breaking defensive team with athletes at most of the 5 positions like the Sixers…

Spg…likely Rondo, but steals dont equate to playing before defense all the time, Holiday is fully capable of playing the lane more and getting a few more steals, but he’d rather lock down his man for the lenght of the court…

Bpg-I’d have to say Holiday due to his lenght and man to man defense, he’s also long enough to close out on three’s and tip quite a few 3 pointers and jump shots…

like i said i’ve weighed in on the debate…like to explain why Rondo may edge out Holiday in anyway????

Going to start my Top 10 PF and Center list soon, but I feel I have to reply to the Questions I’ll get from the John Wall fanboys(of which I am definitly apart of) who may think Wall should be a top 5 pg, I think Wall is very close to every one of the guys not named Rose,Paul,Williams and Westbrook, I just think he’s a season away from being THERE, which is going to be very soon…i  think if Wall shows up with a jumper and stays healthy the entire season doing what he did last year, Then he is the guy to take the 5th spot on my Pg list…he’d pull a Blake Griffin over Holiday/Rondo and Parker IMO yes…But I have to see that jumper develope and a playoff berth from the Wizards to vault him over those 3 today…

[aamir543Participant]

1. Lebron James- A Summer of working with Hakeem, and hopefully he’s been woking on losing some muscle, and trying to get some of those hops back, but nonetheless, he’s the most complete player, hell he got 27-7-7 in an off season, lol.

2. Dwight Howard- A complete beast, hope he continued expanding his offensive game, with some back to the basket moves and consistently, but too much defensively, if he can consistently get 25 or 26 points a game and pass it out of the double team well, than he just might be number 1, but I can’t guess on whether he will be able to do so.

3. Kevin Durant- Great player and guy, but sort of one dimensional. If he can get a couple more boards a game, than we can cemnt him into the top three, cause I have no doubt about his offensive game, he’s deceptively quick, money jumper, and elite athleticism, and his length gives him potential to be a lockdown defender in the future. I think he’ll winthe MVP though, and the Thunder win 50 games this season.(accounting for the 66 game season)

4. Derrick Rose- I think he’ll have a great season, but I hope he tries to distribute the ball a bit more, cause I believe that if people stay healthy, than I believe that he can get 23 and11, while shooting a better field goal percentage, considering he worked on his jumper.

5. Dwayne Wade- I believe this will be his last elite season, followed by 3-4 good seasons, but he can still score the ball well, he still can finish at the rim, so this year there won’t be a big drop off, and I think Lebron will defer to him, so I expect 29 a game from D Wade.

6. Dirk Nowitzki- I put him ahead of Kobe because I feel that Dirk’s game is better suited for a trasition into his mid thirties, and he is a bit more efficient. He is still at the top of his offensive game, and was going to win the MVP before he got hurt, I still think he will kill teams with his Jumpshot, but he is slow footed, so his D will get worse, and his boards will continue to go down, and I hear that he is not in game-shape

7. Kobe Bryant- Still playing great, but I believe that this is Kobe’s greatest challange, which is transitioning into an old man’s game, which I believe he will do successfully, but he will still be with Dirk as guys who can play great, but on their way down.

8. Deron Williams- I love CP3, but this knee issue does not sit well with me. 2008 Paul is a top 3 player that can change a game. 2011 Paul is a great point that can score efficiently, makes great decisions, but doesn’t have the explosivness to dominate a game, unless he can play the way he did in the LA sieres(But Paul is still in my top 12) Williams is a perfect blend of a distributor and a scorer. He does whatever he reads in the defense, if he needs to pass, than he does, if he needs to score, he does exactly that. Plus he is good defender, so that is why I have him here.

9. Carmelo Anthony- His scoring skills make up for his lack of defense. He can score at will, and will continue to, will beat you with so many different ways, but he is a  ball stopper and disrupts the rhythym of an offense, but he can still score. If he can defend like he did in the Boston sieres, than I like him in regards to move up this list.

10. John Wall- I feel this will be his year, the year he goes for 24 and 8. He is so blindingly quick, and if he can even eget anywhere close to a jumpshot, he will thrust himself onto the elite level in no time.

Next comes Blake Griffin, Chris Paul Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, and Amare Stoudemire. I know I have some controversial picks, but it is pretty hard to make a list like this, and remember that from D Will to Amare, It is very tight, so you can shuffle those if you wish.

 

 

[The Scare Crow ReturnsParticipant]

He’s not even a top 5 Pg hands down…you sound like a fanboy…

 

[aamir543Participant]

Hey, It says at the end of the season. If I said Blake Griffin would get 22 and 12 last year, you would have done the same. Why can’t John Wall be that good at the END of the season. He went through growth pains and injuries and adjusting to a new offense. He also grew and inch or two now, and is around 6’5 or 6’6, and that extra height can mean alot in terms of an advantage or disadvantage. Plus if you pay attention to the summer league games, than you will notice that he got even faster. It awaits to be seen that whether his Jumpshot is improved, but it can’t get worse. He already had a great season as a 19 year old in a league of a bunch of grown and strong men, so why can’t he elevate himself to the next level.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@aamir543

I really like the list. Well thought and well explained. My list looked somewhat similar at first, except I didn’t have John Wall in the top ten. 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

That is incredibly uncharacteristic of you to state your debate in such a way (using statistics, especially while taking into account each PG’s personnel). I understand you somewhat conceded your original argument that Rondo was a better PG than Chris Paul and Deron Williams due to their "inflated statistics", how would statistics alone make Jrue Holiday a better player? You still hold on to the fact that Rondo won a ring, when he averaged 10.2 ppg and 6.6 apg as to being a reason why a team would want him as a "true PG" over other players definitely providing more of a statistical impact. Also, blocks per game? For PG’s? Let’s factor in three point shooting for Centers while we are at it. Manute Bol definitely kicks @ss in that category compared to guys like Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O’Neal, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing. 

I think that Rajon Rondo is a pretty damn solid man to man defender. Just because steals can be a category that might not best quantify defense, many good defenders do indeed get steals. Rondo is one of those and I think that he is probably the best defensive PG in the league. Quantifying defense by blocks and steals, with PG’s, makes very little sense and while I think Jrue is no slouch, Rondo is much more proven as far as defensive acumen beyond these raw statistics. I also believe Rondo is indeed a better rebounder, though Holiday is no slouch either, but Rondo is a far superior passer and game manager. The guy averaged 11 apg while Holiday had 6.5. Rondo does have player personnel, and Jrue is definitely developing, plus should see a rise in assists, but to call them even is taking a major risk.

The bottom line is, winning will matter, and I think that Rondo still will have a major edge there. You laugh off John Wall being a top 5 PG, but he had a better rookie season than Jrue and should improve as well, no? Why is it so laughable that a player with the talent of Wall make a solid gain in his second season? I will say Jrue is a better shooter, but Wall is much more explosive and he seems to be a guy who has every chance to be as good as Holiday if not better. I doubt either makes the All-Star team over Rondo next year (if they still have an ASG, that is something that has not been talked about yet I guess), but if I had to choose one, I think Wall has a chance. Let’s face it, the East is pretty wide open at the bottom. Remember your 76ers were the 7th seed last year, not exactly title contenders. I like Jrue Holiday a lot, but I find it funny that you see him being that much better than a John Wall and surpassing a proven PG like Rajon Rondo. 

I saw you call llperez "biased" and calling aamir a "fanboy". Well, you know this and wear it on your sleeve, but you actually possess both of those qualities when it comes to matters of your hometown team. You have a bit of DNYCE in you, and I am not just talking about calling everyone "Edomites". I know you love the 76ers, and I know that you have confidence in some of your boys and want others moved for better pieces. Your vision is making the 76ers a title contender for the first time since 1983 (Let’s face it, they won Game 1 in 2001, but they had little chance of beating those Lakers. That is the closest they have gotten since Moses, Dr. J and Andrew Toney, with Mo Cheeks running point). Still, they have to show and prove, do they not? I for one think Jrue Holiday may eventually challenge Rondo as far as being possibly better, but I think at the end of next year, Rondo will probably still be considered the better player. Rondo can’t shoot, but he is still surprisingly efficient and I find FG% usually tells much more of a story than 3FG or FT. Holiday is a better offensive option, but even you agree that is not necessarily what you want from a PG. The 76ers are still a ways away, bro. If they are going to get there, Jrue will more than likely be a big part. Still, think you might be early on this one.

[The Scare Crow ReturnsParticipant]

I’ll take the long shot, I’ve been up close to John Wall and I know that guy is a flat out stud, I also think he is a top 5 Pg if one of the players I ranked above him blinks, but he still has a ways to go himself to over take the Rondo’s of the world…Holiday is a winner, that is something you and I should agree on , he’s not a player that wants to wow you with stats although he damm well could…I’m trying to fore see a shaky landscape and crazy season jam packed with Games…I think Boston and it’s core group of players to take a step backwards and the Sixers youth movement to take a huge step forward…They have 1 of the youngest teams in the NBA and if they actually use the Amnesty next season they’d have great space and a nucleus that is still intact…The Celtics will be facing retirements and old age minus Rondo and possibly Jeff Green…I love Rondo as pure Point, but he has to have a total team success to be hailed as a top 5 Pg, do to his inability to score…I do believe Wall will be there VERY SOON…but there are factors to take into account there too…he had quite a few chuckers on that team and there weren’t enough touches to go around at times in Washington…yes he does have a young team and Im actaully pegging the Wizards to make the 8 team cut in the East too…i think it’s going to get interesting at the very least….we may have to come back to this debate a few times this season…

[aamir543Participant]

 Thanks Indiana Basketball, and your list has good explanations also, but I’m not sure about ranking Dirk ahead of Dwight. I understand the philosophy behind that, in that most of Dwight’s points do come off garbage buckets and overpowering dunks, however I really think that you have to take defense in account also. Dwight can hurt you in so many different ways. sure he still isn’t a go to post player, and his offensive game has big holes, however I feel that he impacts a game a game more and in more ways than Dirk. Drik is a killer from the high post, and dribble pull-up occasionally. He opens up space for his teamates, and doesn’t take many threes at all, but when he does they are quality shots and he makes them. After watching the Finals I conclude that Dirk is not a bad dem=fender, but he isn’t any better than average. He is slow on his feet and won’t intimidate anyone from coming down the middle, but he does use his length well, plus he is patient, and doesn’t leave his feet. He can’t lock anyone down, but he isn’t a cupcake either. Dwight is the defender inthe league, thanks to his motor and athleticism. He goes up to block shots, and patrols the middle. And Dwight isn’t a slouch on offense. He might not be as skilled or comfortable in the post as past big men have been, but he still makes his mark by going after the offensive boards, and being in the right place at the right time for the dump off pass. he might not be a great offensive player by any means, but he still gives you more than enough production on that end of the floor. I feel that Dwight’s elite shotblocking, and tenacious rebounding(He twice as many boards per game than Dirk) and defensive presence along with decent offensive sbility is why I would rank him ahead of Dirk who I still believe is a great player in his own right.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I thought about putting Howard above Nowitzki due to Howard’s overall impact at both ends, but I’m still not sold on him as a go-to offensive player. I don’t think you can run an offense through him and win at a high level. He’s still a poor free-throw shooter and doesn’t pass well out of double teams.

Nowitzki is light years ahead of him as an overall offensive player in every way, while also being a special closer down the stretch of games. He has a complete game offensively and understands how to make the right pass. As a defender, he’s where he’s supposed to be and plays solid team defense. And he’s always been a solid rebounder.

Nowitzki will have a strong finish this season and have Dallas competing for a top spot in the West and another championship.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Well, you are still my friend and at the very least did not use the forum favorite "Mickey" (where is their a ‘c’ in my username people? Where? Not counting my other one that just got made and I have yet to use on the forum or the fact that my name is indeed "Michael". But, Mickey? COME ON!). Still, I do not know if you said you were buying stock low or I was (Think you were saying it about yourself, but surprised you did not at least make some light joke about your inherent homer-dom). I will say, your scenario is not crazy, but a lot has to happen for it to be true. Also, we are talking about the end of THIS season.

In the future, you could be correct and I think in 2012-13, this could be a different discussion. But, we are talking about this year, where I still think Rondo will be thought of as the better of the 2. Also, you have to say, Washington has some young talent and the ability to unload contracts that could have them looking a lot different by the beginning of 2012-13 as well. I think you are probably a season early on most of your concerns about Rondo, and these are 2011-12 predicts, not for next season when Rondo may indeed have to worry about possible retirements of some key teammates.

[The Scare Crow ReturnsParticipant]

I never double check the title…That was an honest mistake…

Now I know I ay be a bit premature one my picking Holiday as a top 5 PG, and I’ll take what ever comes that…

I will say this though, how far off am I really…aside from Rondo(who every one says has lived off the success of others) and John Wall(who everyone has hailed as the second coming of Christ since he played his 1st game at Kentucky)…who deserves top Considerations…I know Parker,Nash and Kidd have been around the block but that’s sort of The reason all of them are on the decline…

I will put Wall right there with Westbrook and Rose like everyone else has already when he wins some more games and developes a dynamic offensive game(other than blowing by guys for layups and dunks)…Until then he’s a step behind Holiday in my eyes(Eyes that have seen the Glory of John Wall up close and personal during my time living in Ketucky)…Holiday and Wall are actually my two favorite PG’s to watch develope right now and I’m also a big Rose and Westbrook fan…although I’ve always seen Wsetbrook as a Sg playing Pg..

I think the Celtics will look incredibly old at the end of the year(Rondo included)

whille the Sixers anbd Wizards will be looking like the Team’s to watch for years to come…

Both those teams have amazing Young players…and If the Stars of the League were paying attention they’d be opting to join any one of them

[Michael.S.Participant]

Sixers and Wizards will be mediocre for years to come. They have no great pieces outised of Holiday or Wall. McGee and Jordan Crawford don’t play winning basketball and Igoudala is as good now as he’s gonna get, and Young is a solid but not spectular building block, the Sixers have no starpower whatsoever while the Wizards have Wall and a bunch of mediocre players. And I don’t think Holidays better than Wall at all, personally.

[The Scare Crow ReturnsParticipant]

because outside of Wall’s athletic ability he’s not on the level of Holiday yet…It is all subjective in a way, but Holiday does so much more than wall at this point….Yet Wall has that Star power and explosiveness to his game…

Wall is in the Mold of Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook

Holiday is in the mold of Deron Williams and Gary Payton…

[aamir543Participant]

@Indiana Basketball, I understand that Nowitzki is lightyears ahead of Howard in terms of offensive skill level, but Howard is still productive on the offensive end. I won’t use the arguement that they both scored 23 a game, but it’s not like Howard is a complete dud on offense, he is productive on the offensive boards, and he is working on his post game. Sure his post game isn’t even decent or reliable, but he is still very productive onthe offensive end because he uses his height and athleticism, and I don’t think you can downgrade him too much for that. Even if you give Dirk a considerable edge on offense, Dirk is no where close to Dwight in terms of Defense, Shot-Blocking, and rebounding. So even though Dirk is in the conversation as one of the greatest offensive players of all time, you need to look at overall production and ability when ranking him with Dwight.

[HaleParticipant]

 1. LeBron James

2. Dwyane Wade

3. Dwight Howard

4. Derrick Rose

5. Kevin Durant

6. Kobe Bryant

7. Dirk Nowitzki

8. Chris Paul

9. Blake Griffin

10. Cant decide between Randolph, Aldridge, Amare, Melo and D-Will

[Author]

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