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NBA All-Time Team Position Voting: Results 1-5 and Voting 6-10

mikeyvthedon
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NBA All-Time Team Position Voting: Results 1-5 and Voting 6-10

Think we had a fantastic turn out, much props to everyone who voted. The last round of voters brought our total up to 36! Thank you to the last group of voters:

FLYNTFLOSSYBABY, davidstern, iminipanda, JayhawkFan23, matmermoud, thparadox, Based-Out-Like-23

Much appreciated, guys. Well, for those who need context of the origins of this list, here are the previous posts:

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/nba-all-time-team-voting-position

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/nba-all-time-team-voting-position-part-ii

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/nba-all-time-team-voting-position-part-iii

Finally, here are the players who were chosen as the Top 5 NBA Players of All-Time by the 36 voters:

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

PF

1. Tim Duncan

2. Karl Malone

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

I apologize if you did not get to vote, but I bring up a new voting opportunity! I am hoping this could get similar, if not better, turn out. Not to mention, I think this will bring up even more discussion. Now that we have a consensus Top 5 at each position, I was thinking that it would be cool to vote on a consensus 6-10. Everyone has ONE VOTE for who they believe is ranked 6 through 10 at each position, behind the already ranked players that were voted on in the 5-10 series. If you voted the first time, please feel free to vote again! If you did not, your vote will not count! Just kidding, if you did not, please feel free to do so in this new series!

So, the rules are the same as the first time, only instead of voting for players 1 through 5, you will vote for players 6-10. I will make a template that you can copy and paste with the 1-5 filled in with the players voted upon filling those spots and the 6-10 spots blank. Basically, you vote for whoever you see as the best 5 players in NBA history at the 5 major positions, excluding those who have already been voted in the top 5.

If one of the players you voted for in the first series did not make 1-5, please feel free to vote for them again. I am sorry if you do not like who is ranked 1-5, I know I had guys I voted for that did not make it, but I think that it is cool to have this consensus and I would really like to know what a top 10 would like after a number of people have voted. So, I really appreciate those who voted for 1-5, and I hope we have a great turn out for 6-10.

6-10 Voting Template (please copy and paste, so as not to forget who has already been voted 1-5):

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

PF

1. Tim Duncan

2. Karl Malone

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

My vote:

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

6. Walt Frazier

7. Gary Payton

8. Bob Cousy

9. Nate Archibald

10. Steve Nash

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

6. Clyde Drexler

7. George Gervin

8. Pete Maravich

9. Ray Allen

10. Reggie Miller

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

6. John Havlicek

7. Rick Barry

8. Dominique Wilkins

9. James Worthy

10. Bernard King

PF

1. Tim Duncan

2. Karl Malone

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

6. Elvin Hayes

7. Dirk Nowitzki

8. Kevin McHale

9. Dolph Schayes

10. Jerry Lucas

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

6. Moses Malone

7. George Mikan

8. David Robinson

9. Patrick Ewing

10. Willis Reed


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My 6-10 All-Time point

My 6-10 All-Time point guards

6.Walt Frazier 7.Gary Payton 8.Steve Nash 9.Bob Cousy 10. Chris Paul

6-10 All-Time shooting guards

6.Pistol Pete 7.Clyde Drexler 8. George Gervin 9.Earl''the Pearl'' Monroe 10.Ray Allen

My 6-10 All-Time small forwards

6.Scottie Pippen 7.Dominique Wilkens 8.James Worthy 9.John Havlicek 10.Bernard King

My All-Time 6-10 power forwards

6.Elvin Hayes 7.Bob Pettit 8.Dirk Nowitzki 9.Dennis Rodman 10.Shawn Kemp

My All-Time 6-10 centers

6.Moses Malone 7.David Robinson 8.Patrick Ewing 9.Bill Walton 10.Wes Unseld

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OMG!! Remove Shawn Kemp and

OMG!! Remove Shawn Kemp and replace him with Nate Thurmond at the 10th power forward spot

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Definitely feel.........

Thurmond was a C rather than a PF. I know he played with Wilt for his first two years, but he was a back-up for his first year and than pretty much played Center. Plus, dude, Pippen and Pettit were voted into the Top 5! That is why I said to copy the template. I am glad to know your actual top 10 as well, but it would be cool if you just copied the template and name players not already listed. I realized you didn't actually vote for Pip or Pettit, but I was hoping to have the NEXT 6-10 as voted by the board as a consensus. Glad to have your Top 10, but for the purpose of the vote, I would appreciate you making a new list.

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PG 1. Magic Johnson 2. Oscar

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

6. Chris Paul

7. Walt Frazier

8. Gary Payton

9. Steve Nash

10. Chauncey Billups (peak years are incredibly efficient)

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

6. Clyde Drexler

7. Manu Ginobili (Incredibly underrated. His minutes have been limited throughout his career due to injuries. But when he's out there he makes you pay.)

8. Reggie Miller

9. Ray Allen

10. Sidney Moncrief (tenacious defender)

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

6. Paul Pierce

7. Rick Barry

8. Adrian Dantley

9. John Havlicek

10. Dominique Wilkins

PF

1. Tim Duncan

2. Karl Malone

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

6. Dirk Nowitzki

7. Kevin McHale

8. Dennis Rodman (his unique contributions are not captured by normal statistics)

9. Pau Gasol

10 Dolph Schayes

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

6. David Robinson (arguably better than olajuwon)

7. Moses Malone

8. Patrick Ewing

9. Dave Cowens

10. Bob Lanier

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I am a moron

I forgot Paul Pierce. I move him to 8th, above Dominique Wilkins and James Worthy. Hard to remember everybody, bad oversight by me. Making these lists are more difficult than one would think, I know you can forget people. So far only one other vote, hope we can get some more.

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LOL..MikeyV..Good thing u

LOL..MikeyV..Good thing u caught my mistake...Becuz I was about to re-due my list ..and i thought about several players i left off it.....

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PG1. Magic Johnson2. Oscar

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

6. Steve Nash

7. Gary Payton

8. Bob Cousy

9. Walt Frazier

10. Nate Archibald

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

6. George Gervin

7. Clyde Drexler

8. Pete Maravich

9. Ray Allen

10. Sam Jones

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

6. John Havlicek

7. Rick Barry

8. Dominique Wilkins

9. Adrian Dantley

10. James Worthy

PF

1. Tim Duncan

2. Karl Malone

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

6. Dirk Nowitzki

7. Elvin Hayes

8. Kevin McHale

9. Dennis Rodman

10. Jerry Lucas

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

6. Moses Malone

7. David Robinson

8. Patrick Ewing

9. Robert Parish

10. Dwight Howard

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thparadox i had to give u a

thparadox i had to give u a point for mentioning moncrief

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Top 10 Best Point Guards

Top 10 Best Point Guards All-Time

1.Magic Johnson 2.Oscar Robertson 3.Isaiah Thomas 4.John Stockton 5.Jason Kidd 6.Walt Frazier 7.Gary Payton 8.Chris Paul 9.Steve Nash 10.Bob Cousy

Top 10 Shooting Guards All-Time

1.Mike Jordan 2.Kobe Bryant 3.Jerry West 4.Dwayne Wade 5.Allen Iverson 6.Pistol Pete 7.Clyde Drexler 8.George Gervin 9.Earl Monroe 10.Sidney Moncrief

Top 10 Small Forwards All-Time

1.Larry Bird 2.Dr.J. 3.Lebron James 4.Elgin Baylor 5.Scottie Pippen 6.Dominique Wilkens 7.Rick Barry 8.James Worthy 9.Bernard King 10.John Havlicek

Top 10 Power Forwards

1.Tim Duncan 2.Karl Malone 3.Charles Barkley 4.Kevin Garnett 5.Bob Pettit 6.Kevin McHale 7.Chris Webber 8.Elvin Hayes 9.Dennis Rodman 10.Dirk Nowitzki

Top 10 Centers All-Time

1.Kareem Abdul Jabbar 2.Shaq 3.Wilt 4.Bill Russell 5.Olajuwon 6.Moses Malone 7.David Robinson 8.Patrick Ewing 9.Bill Walton 10.

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^^^^ 10. Is Dwight Howard

^^^^ 10. Is Dwight Howard

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Alright, I juat got home from

Alright, I juat got home from a 12 hr shift and its lilke 6 in the a.m. so I'll post mine when I get up before work, but mikeyv, really Pierce ahead of Worthy? I know he had some good seasons of losing with great stats, but Big Game James consistently got it done, managed a finals MVP himself, and an insane fg%. I mean, I understand it's every man's opinion but damn lol. Can't wait for the morning to get to this.

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I am well aware of James Worthy's accomplishments

But was he ever "The Guy" on his team? By the ripe old age of 30, Big Game James took over the ropes, and stumbled. He only lasted another couple of seasons, than was out of the league. Now, I cannot completely take away the things he did accomplish, and i know that he did indeed win a NBA Finals MVP, plus had great play-off numbers. His shooting was incredibly impressive from the field at 52%. But, it is hard not to notice the nose dive it took once Magic left. James Worthy would have been a solid player, Magic or no Magic, but I think that Paul Pierce was indeed much more self made, and dare I say, a more complete player. Paul was a better rebounder even, given his being three inches shorter than James, plus a better passer and I feel a better defender. He has averaged more points, scored more points, made more All-Star teams and All-NBA teams as well.

Now, you can point to James having been on better teams and playing a different role, but also remember, Paul was on teams that were still competing in the play-offs at a pretty high level before he acquired KG and Ray Allen. He was the man on those teams, not Antoine Walker. So, you can scoff at my thinking Paul Pierce a better player than James Worthy, but I do not think I am completely alone in that sentiment. Even by the time Paul Pierce got some help for a championship team, he was the one that made things happen. Had Paul played with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson, I am guessing he might have had a different career, but I would be surprised if he were not at least on similar level to a James Worthy, if not even better.

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PG 1. Magic Johnson 2. Oscar

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

6. Bob Cousy

7. Walt Frazier

8. Steve Nash

9. Gary Payton

10. Lenny Wilkins

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

6. George Gervin

7. Clyde Drexler

8. Pete Maravich

9. Ray Allen

10. Reggie Miller

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

6. John Havlicek

7. Rick Barry

8. Dominique Wilkins

9. Adrian Dantley

10. Paul Pierce

PF

1. Tim Duncan

2. Karl Malone

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

6. Elvin Hayes

7. Dirk Nowitzki

8. Kevin McHale

9. Dave Debusschere

10. Dolph Schayes

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

6. Moses Malone

7. David Robinson

8. Patrick Ewing

9. George Mikan

10. Willis Reed

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When it came to picking some

When it came to picking some of the all time greats that i never saw play..I Tried Basing my picks on rather or not would those guys do the same thing today as they did in their times..And i really believe alot of guys that were great then..Could be great now..But some guys would have problems...

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Cousy would have problems

Cousy would have problems IMO.

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PG 1. Magic Johnson 2. Oscar

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

6.Walt "Clyde" Frazier

7.Steve Nash

8.Kevin Johnson

9.CP3

10.D-Will/Bob Cousy(I dont thin he could last in this league, but he did revolutionize the position)

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

6.Clyde Drexler

7.Pistol Pete(liked being flashy more than winning)

8."The Iceman" George Gervin

9.Joe Dumars

10.Ray Allen

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

6.Dominique Wilkins

7.Rick Barry

8.Hondo

9.James Worthy

10.Adrian Dantley

PF

1. Tim Duncan

2. Karl Malone

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

6.Elvin Hayes

7.Kevin McHale

8.Dirk Nowitzki

9.Dennis Rodman

10.Chris Webber

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

6."The Admiral" David Robinson

7.Moses Malone

8.Pat Ewing

9.Bill Walton

10.Dwight Howard

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Cousy

If you look at his statistics, it seems like he might struggle. But, you have to remember that in those times, his statistics were not considered abysmal. He did revolutionize the PG position. His career average for assists is 7.5, but he lead the league 8 times! If you check, the next closest guy behind him in those 8 years, is not really even that close. It was not until Oscar Robertson came into the league that someone started averaging even close to double digit assists.

People often tend to think only of how evolved these new players are and how they would have gone back and dominated. Well, what if Bob Cousy were brought up today? He would have a completely different method of training and way of learning the game. He was a formidable, and dare I say, dominant player during his time. He was considered the best PG bar none up until 1960. You have to look at this from both angles, I suppose. But, to just say "Bob Cousy would have struggled", I think is not giving his just due for how great he was during his time.

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John Havlicek is wickedly

John Havlicek is wickedly underrated, I wish I could go back to the first voting and put him in my top 5. 8 time nba champion, 4x nba 1st team, 7x nba 2nd team, 5x 1st team defense, 3x 2nd team defense, peak year average of 29 ppg, 9 rebounds, 8 assists. Also played an insane number of minutes throughout his career, including an 82 game season averaging 45 minutes a game, and ended his career at the age of 37 playing 34 minutes a game. I am seriously shocked I did not know more about this guy until now, those kind of numbers look like an all time great on paper, and yet he cant even crack the top5 in small forwards? I wasn't around to see him play, but it doesn't really make much sense to me, am I missing something?

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John Havlicek is wickedly

John Havlicek is wickedly underrated, I wish I could go back to the first voting and put him in my top 5. 8 time nba champion, 4x nba 1st team, 7x nba 2nd team, 5x 1st team defense, 3x 2nd team defense, peak year average of 29 ppg, 9 rebounds, 8 assists. Also played an insane number of minutes throughout his career, including an 82 game season averaging 45 minutes a game, and ended his career at the age of 37 playing 34 minutes a game. I am seriously shocked I did not know more about this guy until now, those kind of numbers look like an all time great on paper, and yet he cant even crack the top5 in small forwards? I wasn't around to see him play, but it doesn't really make much sense to me, am I missing something?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're not missing anything. I had him at #3 on my original list for a reason. The guy was a terrific defender, a winner and was incredibly skilled offensively as well. He didn't get a chance to really be the centerpiece of the Celtics until he was 30 but then he started putting up Lebronesque numbers; 28.9 PPG, 9 RPG and 7.5 APG in 1971 and 27.5 PPG, 8.2 RPG and 7.5 APG in 1972. And to those who say he wouldn't have had the athelticism to hang with todays players, Havlicek was drafted into the NFL as well as the NBA (as a WR for the Cleveland Browns).

One thing that always confuses me is that people always rate Bill Russell among the top 5 (if not top 2) centers of all time; "forget about his numbers" people say he was the ultimate winner. But Bob Cousy (6 championships) and Hondo (8 rings) are the ultimate winners at their respective positions and also revolutionized the game (Cousy in terms of passing ability/flair and Hondo in terms of making the 6th man a vital part of a team) and few people nowadays give them much credit at all.

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Sidney Moncrief is another

Sidney Moncrief is another underrated player...He was very good on defense & offensive,good rebounder,could create plays for himself & teammate,nice all around game...In 1986 the league players named him the best player in the league..This was when several players from the Top 50 All Time list like Magic,Jordan,Bird,I Thomas,Ewing,Moses Malone and Barkley were at their best...I guess becuz he never got his teams to a finals and his career avg of 15 points a game..Stopped him from getting his props...

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Moncrief IMO, was the

Moncrief IMO, was the original lockdown defender at the pg position. As for Hondo, I never really got to watch him play and never really saw any real highlights.

@Mikeyv, when I say he would have struggled, I agree it was a short statement very unthought out, but IMO, this is a league w2here athleticism is at its peak when it comes to the PG position. Sure Cousy developed the position for all these young guys, but defensively he had Bill behind him. AS for the assist numbers, he waqs alo one of the first pg's to have the balkl at a high rate compared to the rest of the pg's in the league. His ballhandling isn't break you down creative. Sure he could potentially manage as a high bballIQ type player, but I see no way he would be able to manage defensively. Heck, even Steve Nash is a good athlete is comparison to COusy.

@Dwight, thanks for that tidbit about Hondo being drafted in both NFL and NBA. I actually had no idea.

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But........

You can look at it from Cousy being transported to the modern day in a time machine, or if he was born with all of the knowledge and resources players use in the modern day. The way the game was played has changed, shooting mechanics and dribbling have changed. The mechanics of basketball and the way athletes train is completely different and I think that had some of those guys been given the same advantages that players have currently, they could be incredibly successful. Bob Cousy's vision and ability was obvious, but he was playing at a time where they still held the basketball with a hand on the bottom rather than at the side. You see him shoot in "Blue Chips"? He makes them all, but that was the same jumper he was using in games, it was not as fluid and free flowing as the way people shoot currently.

His ball handling wasn't "break you down creative"? Well, tell that to people who played against him. The game has involved incredibly and Cousy was a major influence in that process. Now, everyone can do what he does, but he was the first to do it, at least with a high level of success. Yes, he had Russell behind him, though I hardly see how that has anything to do with him offensively, which is what he was known for as far as revolutionizing the PG position. Ever hear of Cousy dribbling out the clock? 10 All-NBA first teams, man. An MVP award. He played with Bill for 7 years and won 6 titles, but he obviously had success before he got there, not to mention winning MVP during Bill's rookie year.

What I was trying to express is that had Bob Cousy been taught modern day basketball, like Steve Nash, and was trained to play in the up tempo style, which I think could easily have happened, than maybe he would be incredibly successful. Maybe, had Steve Nash been born in 1928, he might not have been a Bob Cousy. Do you think he would be shooting 50/90 and averaging 11 assists per game? Odds are, he would be doing either around or less than Bob Cousy did. I guess that is why it is so hard to compare players generationally. Even Shaq, a player I see as the most dominant player of All-Time at the Center position, it is hard to assume that his game might not be radically different had he been thrown back in time. People are bigger now than they were back than. They are faster, the way they do things on a basketball court is completely different. To say guys who had the insight to innovate things that had not been widely used in basketball, like Hank Luisetti and the one handed shot, or Bob Cousy's dribbling, might struggle in todays game, well I feel that their is little way to prove that. They were great players during their time, and I believe that while they may not have been as dominant, were they given the same advantages, they could be incredibly effective.

Here is something that actually made me contemplate thinking differently about players from a different generation. Maybe Wilt would not be 7'5 and 340 pounds, as this article suggests he might had he been born in the modern day, but it is certainly something to think about. The bottom line is, had some of these guys been born in modern times, they might have been able to adapt to be incredibly good players in the modern game. Maybe Oscar would not average a triple double, and Wilt would not average 50 and 25, but players do not need to do that now to be considered great. They dominated back than due to an incredible ability to use their natural gifts and developed skill set to their advantage, what is to say they would not develop the insight to do the same in the modern day game. These were, after all, many of the best athletes and players back than, who might have been bigger, stronger and faster had they been born today rather than being born in the 1930's/40's. Just a different way of looking at things, rather than just transporting guys playing two entirely different games of basketball into each others eras.

http://chasing23.com/wilt-chamberlain-stats-debate/

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That is exactly why I don't

That is exactly why I don't like ALL-TIME lists, because most of us never saw half the people we put down live and there is just no possible way to TRUEly compare these guys. Heck, by my logic more than likely a guy like Bill Russell would struggle. But i do see youre point, I was simply going by the skills given back then . BTW, I wouldn't exactly say he would be guaranteed to be able to have developed like modern day PG's. Getting a mean handle isn't something everybody can do . No matter hoow great your vision,passing, and hoop IQ are. As for hyaving Bill Russell behind him, I was trying to convey that he would get eaten up defensively in the3 modern era. Thats why I tied him at 10. Because of the what if factor. But I do agree he may have perhaps deserved to be a little higher simply on accolades. But then again, I didn't even put George Mi8kan on the list because of my doubts about him in the modern era.

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When comparing players from

When making top 10 lists of players and having to choose from the 50's and 60's to today's players, you have to take into account what they did against their opposition at the time they played. Would Bob Cousy and George Mikan have been studs today? Maybe, maybe not. You have to look at their frame of work while they played and if they dominated their competition during their time period. It's unfair to leave out players because they played in different eras. It's like saying, "well Babe Ruth played against inferior competition so he isn't one of the greatest baseball players ever." That would be ridiculous. It's all about what they did against their competition at the time they played. So, are Bob Cousy and George Mikan top 10 players at their respective positions? Yes. Whether or not they would be great players today is topic for another discussion.

ItsVictorOladipo
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When making top 10 lists of

When making top 10 lists of players and having to choose from the 50's and 60's to today's players, you have to take into account what they did against their opposition at the time they played. Would Bob Cousy and George Mikan have been studs today? Maybe, maybe not. You have to look at their frame of work while they played and if they dominated their competition during their time period. It's unfair to leave out players because they played in different eras. It's like saying, "well Babe Ruth played against inferior competition so he isn't one of the greatest baseball players ever." That would be ridiculous. It's all about what they did against their competition at the time they played. So, are Bob Cousy and George Mikan top 10 players at their respective positions? Yes. Whether or not they would be great players today is topic for another discussion.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes! Thank you, exactly what I was thinking when I put together my list. Hence the inclusions of Cousy, Mikan, Petit, Schayes etc.

ProudGrandpa
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well

PG

6)Nash 7)Cousy 8)Frazier 9)Archibald 10)Jamaal Tinsley

SG

6)Gervin 7)Maravich 8)Monroe 9)Drexler 10)Mr. 8 points in 8.9 seconds and the native son of the state of Indiana

SF

6)Rick Barry 7)Dominique Wilkins 8)John Havlicek 9)Adrian Dantley 10)Shane Battier

PF

6)Dirk Nowitzki 7)Elvin Hayes 8)Dolph Schayes 9)Webber 10)Detlef Schrempf

C

6) Mikan 7)Moses malone 8)Robinson 9)Ewing 10)Bol

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Proudgrandpa? I figured your

Proudgrandpa? I figured your family pulled the plug by now

iguapops420
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Battier?

Battier?

MJBrown
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haven't finalized my list

haven't finalized my list yet, but just to throw it out there, I'm surprised to not see Alex English's name at all. He was the all-time leading scorer in one of the better basketball decades in history

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PG 1. Magic Johnson 2. Oscar

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

6. Steve Nash

7. Bob Cousy

8. Walt Frazier

9. Gary Payton

10. Chris Paul

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

6. Ray Allen

7. George Gervin

8. Clyde Drexler

9. Reggie Miller

10. Pete Maravich

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

6. John Havlicek

7. Rick Barry

8. Dominique Wilkins

9. Paul Pierce

10. Alex English

PF

1. Tim Duncan

2. Karl Malone

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

6. Kevin McHale

7. Elvin Hayes

8. Kevin Garnett

9. Dirk Nowitzki

10. Dennis Rodman

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

6. Moses Malone

7. David Robinson

8. Patrick Ewing

9. George Mikan

10. Dwight Howard

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ItsDwightHoward

I totally agree with you. John Havlicek missing from the top 5 SF's I feel is the biggest omission thusfar.

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For sure

Havlicek was definitely the biggest omission during the first voting period. Bill Russell is obviously the first person one thinks of when they think of those Celtic teams, but Havlicek was instrumental in a large number of those chips. Not to mention, he won a couple of championships without Russell, putting up monster numbers as ItsDwightHoward mentioned. I mean, 27, 6 and 6 during the 1974 Play-off's, when he won Finals MVP. LeBron James may end up being a better player, and Scottie Pippen obviously was a fantastic defender and winner, but I think Hondo had a better career than Scottie. Remember, Havlicek made 8 All-Defensive teams in his career (3 2nd Team's and 5 1st Team's). Pippen made 10 (8 1st, 2 2nd), but remember, All-Defensive teams did not exist until 1968-69, and so he missed 6 years of that honor. Also, Finals MVP did not exist until that same year, more than likely robbing Hondo of 1-2 more.

Iguapops, I know it is hard to make All-Time teams, everyone has different things they factor into the equation. Was just trying to give you a different way of looking at it rather than taking a guy playing 1960's basketball into a totally different generation. My grandfather, who was an awesome basketball player, when he played pick-up in his 40's, guys said "You are bringing the game back 20 years". The game had evolved, and things that were originally considered fundamentally proper basketball were no longer as effective or as efficient. I really like the way UncleBucksh0t put things, I think it is good to take into account how well guys like Cousy and Mikan played compared to their competition at the time. Also, when you say, "getting a mean handle isn't something everybody can do", well, Cousy had the meanest handle in his time. He was the best PG in NBA history until a kid named Oscar Robertson took the title. I know not everyone can have a mean handle, but this guy had one of the best, if not the best, in his time. I certainly think had he been taught basketball at this time, it would be a definite possibility that this guy could be a dribbling machine. He dominated his time and I think that does indeed mean something. It is hard to translate it to today's standards, but their was a reason this guy got the nickname "Houdini of the Hardwood", and it was because he was one of the most electric players the game had ever seen. Maybe he is any other 6'1 and 175 pound PG that plays the game today, but I have a feeling that he had a special ability to play basketball. While his playing style might not have transcended time, his playing ability may have had the guy been born in 1982 instead of 1928.

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pg's 6-gary payton 7-steve

pg's

6-gary payton
7-steve nash
8-bob cousy
9-walt frazier
10-pete maravich

sg's

6-clyde drexler
7-george gervin
8-mitch richmond
9-joe dumars
10-ray allen

sf's

6-rick barry
7-john havlicek
8-dominique wilkins
9-james worthy
10-adrian dantley

ill do rest later

RUDEBOY_
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ProudGrandPa -Your family

ProudGrandPa -Your family should Make you Wear the same Diaper for 2 weeks and have the Dog Chew your Food for you..Just for Mentioning Tinsley in the same sentence as Nash,Archibald,Cousy and Frazier..And Battier in the same sentence as Dominique,Hondo,Barry and Dantley...

kobyz
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PG 6. Chris Paul 7. Walt

PG

6. Chris Paul

7. Walt Frazier

8. Gary Payton

9. Steve Nash

10. Chauncey Billups

SG

6. Clyde Drexler

7. Manu Ginobili

8. Joe Dumars

9. Ray Allen

10. George Gervin/Latrell Sprewell

SF

6. Paul Pierce

7. Rick Barry

8. Dominique Wilkins

9. John Havlicek

10. James Worthy

PF

6. Dirk Nowitzki

7. Kevin McHale

8. Elvin Hayes

9. Pau Gasol

10 Rasheed Wallace

C

6. Moses Malone

7. David Robinson

8. Patrick Ewing

9. Robert Parish

10. Dwight Howard

ItsVictorOladipo
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kobyz I'm not sure about a

kobyz I'm not sure about a few of your selections, A couple of big questionmarks that stand out to me;

1. Latrell Sprewell at #10 tied with Gervin? I wouldn't put Sprewell in my top 25 SG of all time. Guys I would put ahead of him include Reggie Miller, Pete Maravich, Earl Monroe, Sidney Moncrief, Tracy McGrady, Hal Greer, Vince Carter, Sam Jones, David Thompson, Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich, Bill Sharman, Mitch Richmond, Lou Hudson and Dennis Johnson.

2. I'm a big Dwight Howard fan but I'm not sure about putting him at #10 just yet. You seem to put an emphasis on players within the last 25 or so years so I'll omit great centers like George Mikan, Bob Lanier and Walt Bellamy but you should really take a look at the careers of guys like Willis Reed, Artis Gilmore, Dave Cowans who had terrific careers and have accomplished more than what Dwight has at least to this point in his career.

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PG 1. Magic Johnson 2. Oscar

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

6. Steve Nash

7. Bob Cousy

8. Walt Frazier

9. Gary Payton

10. Nate Archibald

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

6. Clyde Drexler

7. Ray Allen

8. Pete Maravich

9. George Gervin

10. Earl Monroe

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

6. John Havlicek

7. Dominique Wilkins

8. Rick Barry

9. Paul Pierce

10. Carmelo Anthony

PF

1. Tim Duncan

2. Karl Malone

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

6. Dirk Nowitzki

7. Kevin McHale

8. Elvin Hayes

9. Chris Webber

10. Amare Stoudemire

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

6. Moses Malone

7. David Robinson

8. Patrick Ewing

9. George Mikan

10. Alonzo Mourning

ProudGrandpa
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%#@!

I forgot Mark Eaton!

ProudGrandpa
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For real

I forgot Bob McAdoo. He had some fantastic years. I'm being serious. Really

Also, who else used Basketball Reference for this list?

aamir543
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PG 1. Magic Johnson 2. Oscar

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

6. Gary Payton

7.Walt Frazier

8. Bob Cousy

9. Nate Archibald

10. Steve Nash

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

6. Clyde Drexler

7. George Gervin

8. Pete Maravich

9. Ray Allen

10. Reggie Miller

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

6. John Havlicek

7. Rick Barry

8. Dominique Wilkins

9. James Worthy

10. Paul Pierce

PF

1. Karl Malone

2. Tim Duncan

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

6. Elvin Hayes

7. Dirk Nowitzki

8. Kevin McHale

9. Dolph Schayes

10. Robert parish

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

6. Moses Malone

7. George Mikan

8. David Robinson

9. Patrick Ewing

10. Dwight Howard

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MikeyV..redoing power forwards

Forgot that KG had already been included in the top 5 PF's (thankfully). Here is my new PF's list

6. McHale

7. Hayes

8. Nowitzki

9. Rodman

10. Webber

* I wish I was able to find a spot for Alonzo Mourning. I think his career went somewhat underappreciated. Pretty sure he started most games during his career at C, but if I were allowed to list him as a PF which was probably his more natural position, I would have thrown him in here at number 10. I think that both Webber and Mourning are better than any old-timer that didn't already make the list. With all due respect, I don't see how Dave Debuschre or Dolph Schayes career can be compared to the skill, athleticism and tancity of the 2 more modern respective players. They were great for their time, no doubt, and have great career numbers. But neither of their games were as complete as Mourning's or Webber's

kobyz
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@ItsDwightHoward, i think

@ItsDwightHoward, i think Latrell Sprewell is the most underrated SG of all time, to me he was a better basketball player for supposing Reggie Miller even if it's not a popular view, Sprewell was complete player, great player both sides of the court.

i had doubts about putting Dwight at #10, i was unsure between him and Big Ben and maybe also Mutombo.

kobyz
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ahh and Artis Gilmore was a

ahh and Artis Gilmore was a beast but at best as ABA player so i neglect him, Willis Reed and Dave Cowens were greats but not overwhelming although playing in easier times for bigs.

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A lot of people forget that

A lot of people forget that for most of Reggie's career, he didn't play 39 or 40 minutes a game. For most of his prime, he was just around 32-33, and was still able to efficiently get to 19-20 season after season after season.

RUDEBOY_
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Yeah, Reggie Miller was very

Yeah, Reggie Miller was very consistent for a long period of time..And Hit some Big Time Memorable Shots..And thats what people will remember about him..Not the fact that he was

a poor passer

poor rebounder

and poor defender..

Which are some of the reasons why he didnt make the Hall on the 1st Ballot...He made the All NBA Team 3 times and each time, he was on the 3rd team....But he was 1 of the 3 best shooters in league history.....

moochiee
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Having Dwight Howard in the

Having Dwight Howard in the top 10 at this point to me is not even a stretch. 4 straight all nba first team and 3 straight defensive player of the years. he may not have as many accolades as some of the other candidates at this point, but that streak of awards is really impressive and combining that with the fact that he has so much career ahead of him, i have no problem seeing him as a top 10 center right now.

ItsVictorOladipo
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Having Dwight Howard in the

Having Dwight Howard in the top 10 at this point to me is not even a stretch. 4 straight all nba first team and 3 straight defensive player of the years. he may not have as many accolades as some of the other candidates at this point, but that streak of awards is really impressive and combining that with the fact that he has so much career ahead of him, i have no problem seeing him as a top 10 center right now.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's fair. Frankly I think Dwight will end up a top 10 center of all time but there are quite a few players who by their mid 20's looked like locks for the top 10 at their respective positions and for various reasons fizzled over the rest of their careers; Bob McAdoo, Nate Archibald, Walt Bellamy, Bill Walton, Earl Monroe, Grant Hill and Vince Carter for example. Now most of those guys had already accomplished enough to be considered Hall of Famers but only a couple of them have gotten serious consideration for these top 10 lists. I'd be reluctant to consider Dwight Howard a top 10 all-time center for at least a couple more years or until he wins an MVP or championship. That being said I do appreciate the love for Dwight and think he will be 100% deserving of such praise soon.

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PG 1. Magic Johnson 2. Oscar

PG

1. Magic Johnson

2. Oscar Robertson

3. John Stockton

4. Isiah Thomas

5. Jason Kidd

6. Walt Frazier

7. Nate Archibald

8. Bob Cousey

9. Gary Payton

10. Tim Hardaway

SG

1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Jerry West

4. Allen Iverson

5. Dwyane Wade

6. Clyde Drexler

7. George Gervin

8. Reggie Millier

9. Ray Allen

10. Mitch Richmond

SF

1. Larry Bird

2. Julius Erving

3. Elgin Baylor

4. LeBron James

5. Scottie Pippen

6. Ricky Berry

7. Dominique Wilkins

8. Bernard King

9. James Worthy

10. Paul Pierce

PF

1. Tim Duncan

2. Karl Malone

3. Charles Barkley

4. Kevin Garnett

5. Bob Pettit

6. Dirk Nowitzki

7. Kevin McHale

8. Elvin Hayes

9. Dolph Schayes

10. Wes Unseld

C

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Shaquille O'Neal

4. Bill Russell

5. Hakeem Olajuwon

6. Moses Malone

7. David Robinson

8. Bill Walton

9. Artis Gilmore

10. Patrick Ewing

My vote:

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I want to Remove Earl''the

I want to Remove Earl''the Pearl'' Monroe from number 9 on my shooting guards list and Replace him with McGrady....

Shooting Guards

1.Jordan,Kobe 3.Jerry West 4.Wade5.Iverson 6.Pistol Pete 7.Clyde Drexler 8.George Gervin 9.Tracy McGrady 10.Sidney Moncrief

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Woww!! Joe Wolf ,you have

Woww!! Joe Wolf ,you have Gilmore rated ahead of Ewing?

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