[Flameres15Participant]

I find it funny how people jump on and off bandwagons. This site has had Myles Turner going number one for years, but last year they dropped him. I understand he had some injury difficulties, but I attribute the fall to the team he chose to play for. Had Turner chosen Ohio State, Kansas, Duke, or even Arizona, he would have started from day one. He would play either PF or C based on existing team players, but that would have shown his versitility. I feel like this site judges the program a player is in, rather than the actual player. Prior to the 2010 draft, Hassan Whiteside was slotted to go number one. Had he made the decision to go to another school besides Marshall, he would have gone lottery. Turner does have flaws, but that does not mean he can’t be a top teir prospect. If I knew he was going to be healthy for his full career, I would choose him with the first pick and not even flinch. Compare Karl-Anthony Towns Jr. and Myles Turner and you will see almost identical stats. The only difference I can see is that KAT played more inside than Turner, so KAT has a higher field goal percentage. However, if one was to compare their two point field goals only, then Turners low field goal percentage rises dramatically. Their build is similar, but since neither particpated in the athleticism portion of the draft combine, their is no comparison for their athleticism except the tape. Turner did post a three inch advantage in his standing reach, so there is that. So if teams are comparing the two, it will come down to tape. I like both players, but I see Turner’s biggest advantage is his stretch ability, which sells me. Thoughts?

[Mad MaxParticipant]

 Well people are allowed to change their minds……but I bo-lieve (haha get it?) Towns to be a better prospect, hea stronger and can hold his own in the post on both ends of the courts, Turner might have a better jumper and range but it’s marginal and Towns is good with his back the basket while Turner is pretty much soley a faceup big. Also Towns is the better defender, defense isn’t soley shot blocking, it’s able to rotate and help, grab boards, show on picks, not give up post position. That’s why I see Towns as a better prospect. 

Turner very well could be the better player down the line, and while it’s not a popular opinion I’m not going to scoff at the thought someone thinks Turner is better than Towns, but I do respectfully disagree, sir.

[Mad MaxParticipant]

 Well people are allowed to change their minds……but I bo-lieve (haha get it?) Towns to be a better prospect, hea stronger and can hold his own in the post on both ends of the courts, Turner might have a better jumper and range but it’s marginal and Towns is good with his back the basket while Turner is pretty much soley a faceup big. Also Towns is the better defender, defense isn’t soley shot blocking, it’s able to rotate and help, grab boards, show on picks, not give up post position. That’s why I see Towns as a better prospect. 

Turner very well could be the better player down the line, and while it’s not a popular opinion I’m not going to scoff at the thought someone thinks Turner is better than Towns, but I do respectfully disagree, sir.

[arambone2]

Basically Turner was still growing into his body. His legs were toothpicks and he realized he needed to spend a lot more time strengthening them. How much of a difference that makes is probably the difference between the future of these two.

 

 

[arambone2]

Basically Turner was still growing into his body. His legs were toothpicks and he realized he needed to spend a lot more time strengthening them. How much of a difference that makes is probably the difference between the future of these two.

 

 

[trelos6Participant]

Towns Jr has had some big game experience both representing Dominican Republic and also in the NCAA tournament.  In these games, he showed he could be a devastating go-to scorer.

Yes, Turner was often buried in the rotation, and probably ended up the best 6th man in college basketball last season.

Overall, Both have great rim-protecting potential, and smooth jumpers.

 

  

[trelos6Participant]

Towns Jr has had some big game experience both representing Dominican Republic and also in the NCAA tournament.  In these games, he showed he could be a devastating go-to scorer.

Yes, Turner was often buried in the rotation, and probably ended up the best 6th man in college basketball last season.

Overall, Both have great rim-protecting potential, and smooth jumpers.

 

  

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I have to make a case here for KAT. Not only he is a solid shot blocker, he’s also a decent pick and roll defender. For me, that is almost as important as rim protection.

He wasn’t allowed to display this skill in college, but KAT is a decent shooter from international 3pt.

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I have to make a case here for KAT. Not only he is a solid shot blocker, he’s also a decent pick and roll defender. For me, that is almost as important as rim protection.

He wasn’t allowed to display this skill in college, but KAT is a decent shooter from international 3pt.

 

[MopgrassParticipant]

Side question: does having Willy Cauley Stein (and other tall Kentucky players) boost Towns’ block number or decrease it. I’ve been wondering all year.

He’s a solid, but not amazing leaper (yes, Turner is longer and I think might have a higher vertical). Still, I was surprised how many shots he could block. He didn’t do it so amazingly in high school. Does he just have that good of timing? Does all that Kentucky height intimidate players (they see WCS coming, and inadvertently run into Towns)? Or is the opposite effect? Maybe without all those Kentucky guys, he would have blocked more since they wouldn’t be around to hog all of his blocks.

Thoughts?

[MopgrassParticipant]

Side question: does having Willy Cauley Stein (and other tall Kentucky players) boost Towns’ block number or decrease it. I’ve been wondering all year.

He’s a solid, but not amazing leaper (yes, Turner is longer and I think might have a higher vertical). Still, I was surprised how many shots he could block. He didn’t do it so amazingly in high school. Does he just have that good of timing? Does all that Kentucky height intimidate players (they see WCS coming, and inadvertently run into Towns)? Or is the opposite effect? Maybe without all those Kentucky guys, he would have blocked more since they wouldn’t be around to hog all of his blocks.

Thoughts?

[JoeWolf1]

 Willie guarded a lot on the perimeter, so if you’ve noticed WCS’s block numbers decreased this season because Towns was often assigned with more paint oriented defense. WCS didn’t hurt or help Town’s block numbers…I’d say their pretty accurate, but since Willie is on the periemter a lot his junior season, had he been assigned with more post duty, it’s safe to say Trill’s block numbers would rise. 

[JoeWolf1]

 Willie guarded a lot on the perimeter, so if you’ve noticed WCS’s block numbers decreased this season because Towns was often assigned with more paint oriented defense. WCS didn’t hurt or help Town’s block numbers…I’d say their pretty accurate, but since Willie is on the periemter a lot his junior season, had he been assigned with more post duty, it’s safe to say Trill’s block numbers would rise. 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/?p=6127

 

 You should take a look in this article. It provides an answer from a statistical standpoint. It talks about synergies in different categories.

 

 Example: If you have 2 defenders who separatedly cause the opponent to commit 2 turnovers each, playing together they’re probably achieving more than 2+2. That’s positive synergy. It makes sense, because they’re going to disrupt the opponent’s offense more efficiently because they’ll be under pressure constantly. On the other hand, scoring defense (which would be rim protection) has negative synergy within itself. It also makes sense, because there is the same quantity of available shots for the opponent. So basically, talking about inside defense 1+1<2.

 

 I particularly love that article. It even proposes a method to find mutual-benefit trades. So, this article answer your question indirectly. It seems Calipari had common sense and put WCS in charge of guarding more perimeter-oriented bigs, which is what caused his blocking numbers to decrease this season, like JoeWolf mentioned.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/?p=6127

 

 You should take a look in this article. It provides an answer from a statistical standpoint. It talks about synergies in different categories.

 

 Example: If you have 2 defenders who separatedly cause the opponent to commit 2 turnovers each, playing together they’re probably achieving more than 2+2. That’s positive synergy. It makes sense, because they’re going to disrupt the opponent’s offense more efficiently because they’ll be under pressure constantly. On the other hand, scoring defense (which would be rim protection) has negative synergy within itself. It also makes sense, because there is the same quantity of available shots for the opponent. So basically, talking about inside defense 1+1<2.

 

 I particularly love that article. It even proposes a method to find mutual-benefit trades. So, this article answer your question indirectly. It seems Calipari had common sense and put WCS in charge of guarding more perimeter-oriented bigs, which is what caused his blocking numbers to decrease this season, like JoeWolf mentioned.

[ipowersParticipant]

 The injury issues are overstated. He had a broken ankle 3 years ago and other than that, he’s been healthy. 

[ipowersParticipant]

 The injury issues are overstated. He had a broken ankle 3 years ago and other than that, he’s been healthy. 

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Also, If I might add, Turner only started to get National Top 100 attention midway through his junior year and didn’t reach top ten lists until the summer of 2013, going into his senior year, so it’s a bit of a stretch to say he’s been going number one for years, when most only saw him at that point up until his senior two years ago. Plus, it’s human nature to hype up the new amazing thing that you’ve just found out about. I think people were way too quick to label him as the consensus top NBA prospect for his class as I saw during that summer of 2013.

[wonzi_bellsParticipant]

 Also, If I might add, Turner only started to get National Top 100 attention midway through his junior year and didn’t reach top ten lists until the summer of 2013, going into his senior year, so it’s a bit of a stretch to say he’s been going number one for years, when most only saw him at that point up until his senior two years ago. Plus, it’s human nature to hype up the new amazing thing that you’ve just found out about. I think people were way too quick to label him as the consensus top NBA prospect for his class as I saw during that summer of 2013.

[JoeWolf1]

I think it’s kind of a dumb trend for people to not alter their opinions if a player fails to live up to their promise, or if someone really starts turning it on. You really expect a draft analyst to ignore the progress from a particular player because he made an initial analysis of him like 3 years ago? Plus this site only does a draft 1 year in advance, and going into the NCAA 2014-15 season it was either Mudiay or Okafor…before Turner played an NCAA game.  

You guys realized they played each other, right?

Neither one had a particularly good game, as if you remember, WCS really took over that game after Jonathan Holmes picked up a T at the end of the 2nd half, but Turner proved how much a project he is when compared to the also promising, but still raw, Kart Towns.

Turner only went 1-5 and picked up 5 fouls in just 18 minutes. Myles ended with 6 points and 5 fouls, and it was one of his performances that kind of re-iterated that despite his promise, he’s still a ways away from contributing in the NBA. He was really frustrated by UK’s massive front line.

Towns went for 10 points on 2-5 shooting in 16 minutes while tallying 3 rebounds and no fouls in 16 minutes. Coach Cal went with Dakari Johnson for much of the game to match the bulk of Cameron Ridley. Towns played okay, but he still outplayed Turner when they were in the game together. 

 

[JoeWolf1]

I think it’s kind of a dumb trend for people to not alter their opinions if a player fails to live up to their promise, or if someone really starts turning it on. You really expect a draft analyst to ignore the progress from a particular player because he made an initial analysis of him like 3 years ago? Plus this site only does a draft 1 year in advance, and going into the NCAA 2014-15 season it was either Mudiay or Okafor…before Turner played an NCAA game.  

You guys realized they played each other, right?

Neither one had a particularly good game, as if you remember, WCS really took over that game after Jonathan Holmes picked up a T at the end of the 2nd half, but Turner proved how much a project he is when compared to the also promising, but still raw, Kart Towns.

Turner only went 1-5 and picked up 5 fouls in just 18 minutes. Myles ended with 6 points and 5 fouls, and it was one of his performances that kind of re-iterated that despite his promise, he’s still a ways away from contributing in the NBA. He was really frustrated by UK’s massive front line.

Towns went for 10 points on 2-5 shooting in 16 minutes while tallying 3 rebounds and no fouls in 16 minutes. Coach Cal went with Dakari Johnson for much of the game to match the bulk of Cameron Ridley. Towns played okay, but he still outplayed Turner when they were in the game together. 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I watched that game wanting to see Myles dominate and came out so upset. Turner got bullied in that game and couldn’t do anything at a good level. I think NBA draft.net dropped him down the big board that week as well.

 Towns looked like a project at that time too as you stated. The difference between the two is Towns has shown a lot of improvement since then and is much more NBA ready. 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I watched that game wanting to see Myles dominate and came out so upset. Turner got bullied in that game and couldn’t do anything at a good level. I think NBA draft.net dropped him down the big board that week as well.

 Towns looked like a project at that time too as you stated. The difference between the two is Towns has shown a lot of improvement since then and is much more NBA ready. 

[arambone2]

 These Kentucky guys didn’t have to worry about double teams that much. That’s probably the biggest benefit of playing at Kentucky. And even the one guy guarding Towns would have to deal with wave after wave of NBA level Kentucky bigs while Towns rested up. 

Easy for a prospect to look better in that situation, especially in the second half when the other team is exhausted.

Guys playing on non-Kentucky teams were facing a lot more double teams, and better rested defenders.

And Turner was also playing for Barnes, fired immediately after the season.

 

 

 

 

 

[arambone2]

 These Kentucky guys didn’t have to worry about double teams that much. That’s probably the biggest benefit of playing at Kentucky. And even the one guy guarding Towns would have to deal with wave after wave of NBA level Kentucky bigs while Towns rested up. 

Easy for a prospect to look better in that situation, especially in the second half when the other team is exhausted.

Guys playing on non-Kentucky teams were facing a lot more double teams, and better rested defenders.

And Turner was also playing for Barnes, fired immediately after the season.

 

 

 

 

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

People are negging you in an automatic motion. Your reasoning seems 100% valid this time, yet they neg you.

[arambone2]

 same as it ever was

 

 

[arambone2]

 same as it ever was

 

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

People are negging you in an automatic motion. Your reasoning seems 100% valid this time, yet they neg you.

[omphalosParticipant]

 I really like Karl-Anthony Towns and think he’s definitely the first overall pick, but I also think Turner was unlucky to drop so far given Rick Barnes’ poor coaching streak of late.

Top players have not performed there and Turner came into a pretty bad group for him to show what he could do.

I feel like if he picked a better school for big men, like UNC for example, he’d be right up there in the top 5.

I think he’ll take a bit of time to give Towns a run for his money, but his upside is right there along with KAT if he can stay healthy and keep growing into his body, especially after those great measurements.

 

 

 

 

 

[omphalosParticipant]

 I really like Karl-Anthony Towns and think he’s definitely the first overall pick, but I also think Turner was unlucky to drop so far given Rick Barnes’ poor coaching streak of late.

Top players have not performed there and Turner came into a pretty bad group for him to show what he could do.

I feel like if he picked a better school for big men, like UNC for example, he’d be right up there in the top 5.

I think he’ll take a bit of time to give Towns a run for his money, but his upside is right there along with KAT if he can stay healthy and keep growing into his body, especially after those great measurements.

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I was looking back on threads from 2010-2012 that were created by us in the past. What I realized is at times we can overanalyze names and draft position and forget prospects are just prospects. Its impossible to predict exactly how these players will develop in 5 years and in 5 years time this thread may not seem as silly. Also it could seem downright blasphemous.

Turner has tons of potential and although today Towns seems like the better player it seems as if Turner will do everything in his power to realize his potential and is well on his way to being an NBA role player. In Kentucky players get put in positions to be successful. Their strengths are showcased and weaknesses hidden. Turner never got that luxary.

In all I too think KAT deserves the recognition as he seems like a great big prospect with no real holes in his game and amazing versatility. Like a bigger Horford with more shooting range. Turner though seems like he is being over scrutinized where literally every step he makes is analyzed and criticised. If he is picked outside of the Top 10 in a position for him to develop correctly he will likely be one of the steals of this draft.

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I was looking back on threads from 2010-2012 that were created by us in the past. What I realized is at times we can overanalyze names and draft position and forget prospects are just prospects. Its impossible to predict exactly how these players will develop in 5 years and in 5 years time this thread may not seem as silly. Also it could seem downright blasphemous.

Turner has tons of potential and although today Towns seems like the better player it seems as if Turner will do everything in his power to realize his potential and is well on his way to being an NBA role player. In Kentucky players get put in positions to be successful. Their strengths are showcased and weaknesses hidden. Turner never got that luxary.

In all I too think KAT deserves the recognition as he seems like a great big prospect with no real holes in his game and amazing versatility. Like a bigger Horford with more shooting range. Turner though seems like he is being over scrutinized where literally every step he makes is analyzed and criticised. If he is picked outside of the Top 10 in a position for him to develop correctly he will likely be one of the steals of this draft.

 

 

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