[duce74Participant]

Given that your team is looking strictly for a small forward who do you pick in this draft between the two top small forward prospects? Do you chose Barnes with a huge upside and a high talent level but seems to lack the aggressiveness and personality of a superstar? Or do you go with Kidd-Gilchrist, the athletic, high-motor swingman, who will probably contribute right out of the gate (Kawhi Leonard, Kenneth Faried but better)?

[rwd5035Participant]

I’m taking Kidd-Gilchrist.

[fangowangoParticipant]

Hmmm assuming your team has no superstar player (because both these players are probably going top 5) I might have to go with Barnes: more upside and can be a damn good scorer.

Personally though I think Barnes is more risky because of what he did/didn’t do in NCAA tournament and he just doesn’t seem to have that destined superstar mentality. Plus Kidd-Gilchrist plays that hard nose high energy style that I love so much so I’m flipping and saying I’d take MKG

[chocboywndrParticipant]

This was covered last week but you are new so here is my arguement.

I know that everybody loves MKG. I know he has all these intangibles he is a winner blah, blah, blah. Hey I like the kid he is nice but I don’t think he will be better than Barnes.What follows is my arguments why.

Lets back track to high school, who was the better player lets look at the tape

Barnes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fdzmUAqilg

MKG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKpRGE-g_MU

Now I think its pretty obvious who was the more rounded player. MKG was a good player but overall skill level Barnes has him beat. Jump shot is much more sound for Barnes going forward bigger better body. Barnes is a little over a year older so we will give him the body.

Lets go to college

Lets goto the tape again look at their best games in college to see NBA skills. I picked mixtape by same person they covered the same things. If you are a NBA GM which guy looks more ready to be player.

Barnes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd_hMlNZmuM&feature=relmfu

MKG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOzb2-WghjY

Now I will give MKG is better defender and if you want to say more aggressive rebounder. However if I am NBA GM Barnes shows me everything in need in SF and as NBA GM I am not silly enough to let a shooting slump in the tournament make me forget the body of work.

Harrison Barnes will be a better player than MKG he is already light years ahead of him without a strong handle. He may not be able to gaurd position 1-4 but he will be able to gaurd his own position which is the most important thing.

Yes MGK has great work ethic but that doesn’t mean he will ever be a good shooter, ball handling is much easier thing to fix than a poor shooting, and its not only that he is poor shooter its that he has hitch in his shot. Hitches have a tendency to very hard to trained out of. Barnes is also noted for having a good work ethic.

 

 

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

Barnes. You guys keep sipping that MKG cool aide. I have a feeling scouts will be smarter than that. Lol media hype is something else these days.

[rwd5035Participant]

@scout4real

Media hype? That’s all Barnes is at the moment.

Kidd-Gilchrist shot better from the floor than Barnes did this season, averaged more rebounds per game, and shot a better percentage from the free throw line. Barnes was hyped as a dude who can take over a basketball game, well, I’m still waiting for it. He didn’t do it this past season. I think he’s still trying to play hot potato in the dying minutes of the Kansas game.

[chocboywndrParticipant]

 He shot mostly put backs and fast break baskets. A true look to his shooting ability is 26% from college 3. Their is not one player with similar skill set from Gerald Wallace to AI that has become a 20ppg score or more than glue guy. 

[frogmanParticipant]

I agree.  I honestly like him but what desirable basketball skill goes MKG have that makes him a top 3ish pick?  He aint gonna bully his way through NBA defenses like he can in college.  I don’t see one NBA executive picking MKG over Barnes after all the workouts and everything.

[frogmanParticipant]

 I take that back… pencil him into the Bobcats with the number 1 overall pick

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

MKG is solid but most people I know and me included do not see what your seeing or that hype machine. Barnes is far from hype kid. Hype equals MKG.

[surveParticipant]

 has the best assessment if you are looking from a GM perspective.  he breaks it down and shows you the upside is with Barnes.

I always come from a simplistic perspective.  I am a UNCer for life…and I know this may amaze some people….but Roy Williams is NOT a great coach.  The smokescreen was the 2 titles within 5 years.  I appreciate him for that, but I cant look beyond his flaws.  

Coupled with Roy’s inadequacies as a coach and the unbelievable hype that was placed on Barnes before he set foot on a college court, Barnes has been severely underated for his pro potential I believe.  Were there no rule, he wouldve been #1 out of college…..remember, there wasnt much talk of Irving even being a one and done.

If Barnes wouldve gone somewhere else, he probably wouldve been gone last year and went #1 overall.  Someone made an excellent point about how another SF that played under Roy was slept on and slipped in the draft after 3 years of college play.   That SF only went on to become the 2nd leading scorer in Celtics history.

Regardless of my feelings about Barnes, MKG is the safest pick in the draft.  There is absolutely no way this guy busts.   I like both guys, I think wherever one goes, the other should go directly behind.  So if Davis goes 1st, then Barnes and MKG should go 2nd and 3rd in no particular order.

For people to say Barnes had a disappointing career at UNC is so ridiculous.  How many players at UNC have avg 17ppg and 5.5rpg their time there?  Thats like saying the Packers had a disappointing season last year.  Once someone says you are supposed to win the Super Bowl, anything less is a failure.

I definitely dont believe Barnes doesnt have the mentality, aggressiveness, or demeanor to be a first option guy.  The half-court for UNC sucked and if Roy doesnt run more plays for Bullock than he did for Barnes, then Bullock is going to be labled a disappointment.

 I will end by saying, just use the eye test on this one.  MKG is every bit as good as he looks.  Barnes is better than he looks.

[nbafan7898Participant]

 I posted this in another thread and I don’t think people saw it so I am going to post it again.

Prior to Barnes’ ankle sprain on January 31 at Wake Forest, he was having an ACC POLY season. In 21 games, he led the Heels in scoring in 12. Here are his numbers for the first 21 games …

G     F FG    Pct. 3FG   Pt.    FT    Pct.RebAvg. Pts.  Avg. 
21 133-271 49.1 27-60 45.0 75-102 73.5 96 4.6 368 17.5 

Following the Wake game, the Heels played 16 games. Barnes’ efficiency dropped considerably. In 16 games, he led the Heels in scoring in only 5 games. 

G     FG     Pct. 3FG  Pct.  FT     PctRebAvg.Pts. Avg. 
16 92-238 38.7 21-74 28.4 68-85 72.9 95 5.9 267 16.7 
 

Before his ankle injury he was shooting oustlandishly good.  49% from the field and 45% from 3.  After his ankle injury it looked like he had lost a step and played a lot more passive on the tender ankle.  As he rests it and gets ready for the workouts he will work his way up to a top 3 pick for the workouts.  Barnes has got to go down as one of the most nit picked prospects of all time.

 

MKG to me is a hustle guy who is a must for a championship team.  To me his ceiling is a 17 ppg, 8 rpg guy who provides a ton of energy.  That is great value for the end of the lottery.  Barnes has the opportunity to be one of the more lethal scorers in the NBA.  Give me Barnes over MKG.

[surveParticipant]

must didnt see the Clemson game when he went for 40 in the tourney. the college game, especially today is not meant for one man to "takeover". particularly the style of UNC with its players. they possibly have 4 of the top 20 picks in the draft….if you try and take over with that type of talent, then you are just a plain gunner or selfish player. Barnes stepped up when they needed him. He ran off buckets from time to time, but then again, he doesnt need to shoot 6 straight possessions.

In all fairness, MKG took over when nobody else for UK could. He is a stud. I dont see where he is overhyped…if anything I think he is underated for what he did for UK this year…I know a lot wont agree with that statement. If you want Barnes to take over games, he wouldve done that at Oklahoma or Iowa St.   Players today dont go to a program where they will be the star. Not top level recruits anyway. A top level recruit wants to go to where they DONT have to do it all.

Not saying they wont have very good careers, but look at how dominant Beasley and Mayo were in college. They dominated. They took over. It got them lofty draft status, but both have had their struggles in the league. I dont pay too much attention to how dominant a player is or isnt in college these days because the game has changed…..and although there were always strong differences between collegiate and pro, the gap is very wide today.

[jaysmith1987Participant]

Its Mkg and its not really close. Hes a better ballhandler rebounder asser and defender. Everybody is calling him a gerald wallace because thats the role he played to win championships. When are people gonna realize no one goes for 20 a game playing for coach cal but tthey tend to put up points in the league. All Mkg needs is a shot wich he will have plebty time to develop. Hes already 67 235 to mehe is a pippen grant hill type and itll show next year and he doeant need a true pg because he an dribble.

[DunksNJordans23Participant]

 I think Barnes’s biggest problem is he knows he’s good and if something starts to go wrong he ignores it and keeps shooting. I used to hear that Barnes is a gym rat blah blah blah but you could be alone in the gym just shooting the ball which is probably what he does. MKG on the other hand if he starts to fall into a shooting slump he finds other ways to help the team. Like that play in the championship game when Taylor got passed him and he made an awkward block on Taylor’s layup. MKG comes in everday with the goal to better his game and I’m not sure Barnes does the same anymore. My answer is MKG

[M-EazyParticipant]

MKG >>>> Barnes

[mrhancocParticipant]

 I would take Barnes, simply because I think he would become the better player, sure he has some things that he needs to work on, but I think they can be easily corrected within a short amount of time……just remember many scouts before rated Barnes a sure #1 type player. I just think collectively Barnes has the most upside between the 2

Barnes just needs help putting his strengths first…..He has a go-to shot!, I think he doesn’t know when to pull the trigger – He has the heart and the killer instinct -He plays good Dfence, nice wing span and has the height – He has handles but his foot work needs to be tweeked a little – He is also has post game (not great, but he knows it), slashes to the basket well and runs the floor (My only real concern for Barnes is that he is more of a silent scorer, but that could also be a good thing)

MKG is pretty good too but I would go with Barnes

The both are playing a tough position in-n-out every night

[nbafan7898Participant]

 It’s gonna be interesting when the reports of the workouts between the two come out.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

If Barnes had MKG’s intangibles he’ll be the  number 1 pick..And if MKG had Barnes shooting ability he’ll be the 1st pick..Neither 1 of these guys are Finished products…Their success at the next level might depend on which team they land on and who are their coaches….Barnes might get off to a better start if he lands on a team like Charlotte,becuz they need a scorer…While MKG will be better suited on a team like the Warriors,where there are other players who are capable of scoring and he can concentrate on playing defense…

 

[EuroBallParticipant]

A question the Raptors need to know come draft night. The Raptors really need a small forward with close to elite level of skill set to get to the next level as a team. Key note the Raptors will have two first round guys for the 2012-13 season and I know Brian is working on a third one, may be trade up mid to late first round with the two second round he got to work with. So may be he gets it done.

As a Raptor fan, best case Scenario for both

Harrison Barnes – Paul Pierce

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist – Andre Iguodala/Gerald Wallace

MKG will be the right choice in my eyes but you never know, Barnes may out work him in workouts.

[MelParticipant]

 I hope not, but MKG COULD end up Cory Brewer..

 

Barnes is a handle away.. and the hot potato mentality is something to watch though

[JordanC20Participant]

 MKG plays with heart on every possesion and that will get you far.

Barnes was a pretty good college player but I just don’t see his game translating well in the pros.

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

Alot of guys play with heart on every possession. If you cant shoot the ball, it doesnt matter how much heart you have to a point. I think MKG will be a nice player in the league, but if you are drafting him expecting him to be a 1st or 2nd option scorer in the league, hes going to be a huge disapointment. A high percentage of his points come in transition where guys in college are just too small to contend with him on the break and on offensive rebounds where he is built like a 4 man in college but NBA 3s are just as big.

I think Barnes should go higher, but I think MKG will go higher. Barnes has gotten so overrated and overhyped by everybody to the point that he is severely underrated now. If we take away the preseason hype and HS hype and look at the body of work he has compared to the other wings, he is still better then just about all of them.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

I bet a whole lot of NBA GM’s disagree with you JordanC20.

[PabloFiascoParticipant]

It’s MKG no questions asked. We can talk on and on about how good Barnes was with Kendall Marshall but the evidence is there that by himself he cannot create his own offense

[Future_Scout]

 i usually don’t get into arguments between mkg and barnes because there is no clear cut favorite. but…

does barnes really have more upside than mkg?

mkg is younger and got less touches than barnes. at one point Cal even talked about starting darius miller > mkg. 

mkg has more upside

 

 

[chocboywndrParticipant]

 For evrubody that thinks MKG is a rare talent you are incorrect their are guys like him every year in the NCAA. Great off the dribble, finish well on fastbreak, play good defence. Their have been players that do it better than he does over the years. Firstly MKG is a good athlete he is not freakish athlete like LB. He doesn’t have a pro body going into the NBA so most wings are going to straight muscle him  and he will get zero calls as a rookie so his great defense wont happen for a few years until he gets stronger and respect. Can you imagine sending him out to cover joe johnson or wade or even gerald wallace he would get straight run over. 

He is straight line driver which means this, take a little time go on you tube look at his handle he has no crossover, no in and out dribble, no move to his left hand, no pull up, no pull up bank shot, and he is not strong enough to post anybody up. Oh ya on open 18-19 foot jump shots he shoots 26%. Hear is scouting plan for him from every team next year.

Gap him let him shot jumpers, good first step, good handle, will finsish above rim, good finisher on break to strong hand,doesn’t finish with weak hand, doesn’t shoot coming of f screens, doesn’t shoot spot up jumper, no pull up jump shot , rarley use glass to shoot, no post moves, when drives play him to go all the way to the basket to his strong hand, good offensive rebounder- which mean no drives to the basket.as they will let him shoot  all day, and you can’t run plays for him because he can’t shoot everybody will go under screens and play him for pass. All he can get is fastbreak points and put backs.

BTW only teams that try to run in NBA are Pheonix, and Denver not in lottery.

 

Barnes 

NBA body able to defend his position either in post or on perimiter. This is not a disputed fact, he too will have no respect from refs.

1) NBA 3 point range, jab step pull up, shots well coming off screens and off 1 dribble, able to use  glass ,finishes going to basket with either hand, spot up shooter on break will finish above the rim,  able to post up for fade away jumper,poor of the dribble – which means  that while he lacks at the moment off dribble skills he still has multiple ways to hurt teams on offence you can run plays for him and his range opens space for others to drive and post players to make moves.

The facts are coming into the league MKG will not be able to be dominat defensivley, he will be a liability in any kind set offence as you can’t run plays for him and he can’t hit open jumpers, he will not be able to bully NBA players inside for rebounds.If you think once he starts going through NBA workouts that won’t shine through you are crazy. Intangibles with skills make great players, Intangibles with limited skills make role players 

.

[chocboywndrParticipant]

 Sorry for the spelling mistakes guys it wouldn’t let me edit the post. 

[Future_Scout]

chocwonder: you do know that defense has its ways of playing shooters as well as slashers right?. they’re going to close up on barnes and go over screens… and he will struggle to take nba defense to the rim. he can barely create space, and those 1/2 dribble pull ups will be way harder to pull in the nba. 

im not saying mkg will be a better scorer, matter fact i’ve posted that mkg will struggle to score his first year or 2 because his lack jumper but mkg can amount to way more than a role player!!!! you seem to be making your mind about mkg’s lack of potential in shooting based on a "hitch" you find in his jumpshot. you know how many jumpshots in the nba are ugly and efficient? anyway what is this terrible "hitch" so hard to fix in his stroke?

 

[chocboywndrParticipant]

 Firstly I did say that was scouting report for next year. Yes MKG has just as much chance to fix his shot as every other player. The facts is history has shown that is much more rare for a player who has been a poor shooter throughout his life to turn into a superior shooter. The odds have shown its far easier to tighten up your handle than turn into a knock down shooter. MKG has way more things to work on than just range. He has no pull up, no left hand, no floater and he is not great off the dribble on anything but straight line drives. His handle is solid not special. 

Barnes already has all the skills but the handle. Of course he needs to refine those skills too, but he is way ahead in everything but handle. So while Barnes can really focus in on his handle and just get more consitent at stuff he already does. MKG has to work HARD on many aspects of his game.

  The number 1 quality looked for in wing players is offensive ability it takes way longer to develop than defense. Any good athlete with desire can be taught to play defense, any good athlete with desire cannot be taught to be good offensive player. History teaches us that. MKG will teach us that history again.

[akhan786Participant]

Going to UNC was a big mistake for Barnes.

I’ve always thought his game was a better fit for Duke because Duke is basically Wing U.

He would’ve been a one and done and possible #1 pick.

[Author]

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