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Minnesota...

JDB12
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Minnesota...

Over the last year I got negged pretty hard over my distaste for the Wolves trading Zach LaVine and company to the Bulls for Jimmy. Again, I love Jimmy as a player but I just didn't think that move was good for the Wolves long-term (and apparently short-term). Originally I hated the trade because I knew it was so the Wolves could win sooner and have that veteran presence and hopefully he could help Wiggins out. Which I knew a player or two wouldn't just change the poor culture we've had, and Wiggins is just lost on defense most of the time any way so I doubted Butler would help. What I wanted was the Wolves to be patient with their young core or at least trade Wiggins instead of LaVine since he brings a lot more to the table than Wiggins in every facet of the game. I know LaVine had a significant injury but with modern-day medicine and recovery most players are able to come back from that stuff without really missing a beat. Not to mention even at the time of the trade I feel like most knew Butler would just sign with a bigger market team in 2019 so again; What's the point of trading a 21 year old, pretty efficient 20ppg scorer along with a top 5 rookie and our previous year's first round pick? Why wouldn't we just be patient with the core we had especially when we wouldn't be near a contender with Jimmy as long as the Warriors, LeBron, and Rockets are still at or near their peak? Just didn't make sense then and doesn't make sense now. I know the young core we had was just a potential contender in the future, but it just seemed way smarter to be patient with what we had after over a decade of losing than just trying to take the easy way out and win now with no real chance of contending in the near future.

So now that there is conflict between Butler and the organization what should the Wolves do? I was hoping they would trade either or all of KAT, Wiggins, and Butler and trade up and get a couple top 10 picks in this talent loaded draft or get already established young talent and just start the rebuild over. Or even try to score a big-time player like AD or Kyrie by trading KAT, Wiggins, and picks to make Jimmy happy and hopefully resign assuming that playing in small market Minnesota isn't part of the problem. I know Kyrie is probably close to untouchable with Boston's chances at a title now much more open. Hopefully Thibs is able to part with Bulter if that's what's best for the organization, but who knows... the way the Wolves are now won't turn us into a contender any time soon, even if the internal conflict is resolved unless both KAT and Wiggins take those steps as far as increased efficiency on offense, and greater effort and knowledge on the defensive end we all kind of expected them to take.


celtics1982
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Wasn't a horrible trade value wise

It just made zero sense. That team was too young and not ready. It was like two to three years early.

I don't start a full rebuild, but I would try and move Butler. I do love Okogie, like love. You nailed the draft, one of the better ones. A deal of Morris, Yabu and Rozier plus picks makes sense. Why not getting full value back, Rozier and picks helps rebuild the young core. Gives you a young PG to pair with KAT, Wiggins and Okogie. Hit on another pick and that core could be really good in 3-4 years.

JDB12
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I agree, Okogie was probably

I agree, Okogie was probably the best pick possible where we were. I also wouldn't have minded maybe trading down and picking up Trent as he is the shooting we need. But Okogie will definitely be a good player.

I like the move of Bulter to Boston. But with the excess of wings I think we could maybe snag Rozier and Brown which I would love. I know that would give us an exess of wings assuming Okogie turns into a starting caliber wing, but I'm still not sold on Wiggins and I think Brown is already a more complete player than Wiggins and has the athleticism Wiggins has. So if we could do that and ship Wiggins for whatever else we can get; maybe a productive veteran PF and/or picks, that would be ideal imo.

XYRYX
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Yeah but how many SG/SF

Yeah but how many SG/SF should the Celtics have on the roster? Hayward, Brown, Tatum (can play also the 4 I know), Butler or should they also trade Kyrie for Leonard like some people report?

I mean yeah you should better have a LeBron, KD, Kawhi type of wing but not like 4 or 5 elite ones on one team. Even Hayward, Brown and Tatum alone could be complicated in different matchups. They either need a center or should decide if Kyrie is really the player and person they need going forward.

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They dont have 3 or 4 years.

They dont have 3 or 4 years. The Twolves spent 14 years out of the playoffs and they literally only made the playoffs because Butler returned from injury early to play in the final three games of the season which the Wolves won including the last game of the season an amazing 6 point OT victory against Denver the team competing for 8th seed with them. They had lost 2 games in a row before that and were sliding.

I think Butler has maturity issues of his own and doesnt lead by example but hey, the guy literally dragged this terrible franchise (no offense Wolves fans) to the playoffs. This is the franchise guy.

celtics1982
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No Brown

Sure the Wolves would love getting Brown and Rozier, that just won't happen. Its Rozier and picks or no deal.

With Stevens I could see him playing 5 wings at once. I don't get we have too many wings so lets trade Irving for Leonard. That makes zero sense. The value makes sense, but not if you think we havd too many wings. I could see Hayward taking Morris minutes and Butler taking Smarts. The tricky part is who finishes games, you'd have good players on the bench.

Andv1 Waiting
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Lets offer scraps for an Allstar,...

Typical Celtics fan .. Lets offer the lowest ball offer possible and the other team will except it.. Reasons Thibs would never do that proposed deal:

He gave up Lauri M-Who is better than all the players offered in your Celtics proposals.

Lavine who is probably almost better than all the players with the exception of Rozier and him being equal depending on what strengths you like.

Dunn(I would want another season of him leading bulls before I comment on him but Thibs didn't use him right to start with) and could be way better than Rozier also.

The picks the Celtics would probably offer would be all low firsts and most likely wouldn't include the Kings unprotected pick..

Butler would command way more than that average as best deal.(that is being generious with the terms for it)

This is without even including how much Thibs likes the Guy...

The T-wolves are better off Choosing out of Wiggins and KAT and moving one preferably the one that doesn't fit how you want to build around Butler. Butler looks like he is more ready to be a franchise player than those two will ever be and getting as much as possible before other teams realize is the smartest move if any is going to be made at all..

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Why would the Wolves want to

Why would the Wolves want to trade Butler unless he has injury issues they are aware of and arent sharing. He is byfar their best player and with respect to KAT's offensive game its not even close. This team doesnt even smell a playoff performance without him. They were 10-14 in the games he sat out this year.

Without Butler the Wolves would be a 30-35 win team if they were competing as hard as they did last year but would more likely end up just another team tanking after the allstar break to finish with 25-30 wins. The only reason he leaves is because he wants out but after their 1st playoff birth in FOREVER they should just do whatever he says.

JDB12
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As a Wolves fan, I honestly

As a Wolves fan, I honestly don't care about playoff appearences. Sure its nice to see them play a few extra games at the end of the year, but everyone knew the Rockets were gonna just blow them to the offseason quick anyway. What's the point of just making the playoffs to get run out as quick as possible? Nothing. Yes, Butler is the best player and the main reason we made the playoffs, but I want us to be a contender. And we have enough value to acquire players or picks to truly contend in 3-6 years. So if that means moving Butler and losing for a few more years, then so be it.

royk927
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Yeah

My hawks for all intentions couldn’t sustain jack in the post season. 10 empty trips 1 conference finals appearance. What was baffling when people were mad that we were blowing things up instead of running it back with milsap.

celtics1982
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Did you not see the reports?

Go read them, that's why there is trade reports. He said he's sick of the Wolves young star players. It makes sense, he ready to win now. KAT and Wiggins need a few more years. It basically sounds like you trade him or lose him in free agency if the reports are right.

celtics1982
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Get your facts straight

Butler and pick 16 for Lavine, Dunn and the 7th pick. It looks worse because it seems the Wolves might have picked the wrong big. Jarrett, Collins, and Kuzma all look great, while Patton was injured.

LaVine played what 30 games and now costs 78 million, Dunn was coming off a very bad year and you got two years of Butler. You don't get equal with one less year of control.

Frankly Rozier is much better than Lavine, he's a two way player. Morris is a very solid vet. Yabu is a former mid first round pick, has some upside. Just can't get any playing time in Boston. Plus the Clippers pick and Bostons pick. Thats not a great offer, but its a rather fair one. I wouldn't trade that Kings pick straight up for Butler if I even could. You only traded the equivalent of a late lottery pick to get two years of Butler. Maybe if I got desperate I'd include the Grizz pick, but not likely.

If you can get a player like Brown or a pick like the Kings pick, take that offer. Is there any team willing to make a trade Like that? I don't hold out hope for a Butler trade, but I'd make an offer and see if a team beats it. If so I'm ok. Basically doing it if the cost is right to make Irving happy. We really don't need him.

mowesten
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The Wolves fundamental

The Wolves fundamental problem is they have a hard core, gritty, defensive minded coach, but they don't have enough of those type of players. They have kids who are soft, kids who don't consistently play hard, are unaware on defense and have a little too much softness for a Thibs' type team.

As I see it, there are only three options.

A. Find a new coach

B. Keep Butler, trade Wiggins and/or KAT, and start surrounding Butler with Thibs' type players.

C. Wiggins and KAT need to get tougher and man up.

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