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Lebron's Wall

WizKid
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Lebron's Wall

Has Lebron hit his Wall? Albeit its a pretty good wall to hit if he has but alot of people give Dwight Howard trouble for no improving and just getting by on athletiscism but isnt Lebron doing the same but with his passing and 3pter of course. In the past couple years Lebron has added the chasedown block which isnt really something you work at its just something you do and improved his jumper which almost every player does. But what I am talking about is his in between game and post game. With Lebron its driving or 3ptr with the occasional pull-up but you almost never see him take anyone in the post and use his size and strength to his advantage. I think he could have average 33-35 points with Cavs if he used the post more by racking up on And 1s and such. I wanted to resevre my judgement until a couple games in the season but after watching him the past two games its makes me wonder.............


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A wall.. What more do you

A wall.. What more do you want him to improve? He's a top 10 passer, top 10 rebounder, top 3 scorer. Top 5 shot blocker, Top 10 defender. I mean there's nothing left for him to improve, his mid range and 3 ball are looking nice, especially off the dribble. The only hole in his game is his post up game and his spot up game.

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I won't dare say he's hit his

I won't dare say he's hit his wall, but he sure in the hell hasn't really improved much in my opinion.

Other than his jump shot, he really is doing the same things he did as a rookie. He's getting better defensively too, but just hasn't added anything new to his game... Especially offensively.

Chrischi
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I mean he made new career

I mean he made new career highs in almost every category. And he is in the 1st defensive team in the 2nd year in a row. So it's hard to say he didn't improve.

I agree with you in one point though. It's really weird why he is never posting up, although he has the perfect body to punish many people.

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20 ppg as a rookie- 30 ppg

20 ppg as a rookie- 30 ppg now...Lets cut the nonsense.

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Not to be disrespectful or

Not to be disrespectful or anything tongueoutlike23 but lebron is none of those things in the top... not statistically or realistically. He's a great passer for his position, shot blocker for his position, and rebounds well but not tops in the league by a longshot. His jumper has definitely improved but its nothing worth fearing. If i were an NBA defender guarding lebron id keep a distance with my hand outstretched and force him to hit jumpers and if he hit a ton of jumpers to win then so be it but i have yet to see it happen (ask the celtics who ousted lebron a few times in recent years in the playoffs) He is nothing close to a top 10 defender either. He has the tools to be one of the best if not the best but he doesnt play with the same intensity defensively as offensively consistently enough. Mind you lebron's "wall" is a hell of a wall and if he's able to uphold his numbers he'll be a HOFer no doubt.

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@Tongue-Out-Like-23 Did you

@Tongue-Out-Like-23

Did you write LeBron is a top five shot blocker? Oh boy... You're buying that sportscenter hype.

Other than his shooting, he really hasn't added anything new. He's still an average free-throw shooter. He still has an average mid-range/in between game. No post game. He's improved the strengths he already had.

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Thank you for the people that

Thank you for the people that acutally read it Lebron is good but he can be better

IndianaBasketball
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And LeBron isn't even the

And LeBron isn't even the best defender at his position. He's just hyped up to be.

It's no different than Kobe making the first team on defense last season... Come on. We all know he's not the best defender at his position anymore. First team defense is just a popularity contest.

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Ok, well he isn't a top 5

Ok, well he isn't a top 5 shot blocker, I exaggerated, but he is a top 5 shot blocker at his position.

sacphil_08
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Well put indianabasketball...

Well put indianabasketball... there are plenty of guys i felt shouldve made 1st team that didnt. thabo sefalosha shouldve in my opinion been on first team but i think he was second team... larry hughes was first all team a few years back when in washington because he led the league in steals but he was by no means a great defender. those stats lie alot of the time

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And despite LeBron's

And despite LeBron's chasedown blocks and the way ESPN replays them over and over again, he only averaged one block per game last season.

People act like LeBron is blocking shots like Andrei Kirilenko used to during his All-Star years.

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People really exaggerate

People really exaggerate Lebron's shortcomings. He is still probably the hardest player to guard. I will concede that he doesn't have much of a post game and that's something he needs to work on.

His mid range game is not as bad as people make it out to be, he pretty consistently can pull up and knock down shots. He is also a good outside shooter and one that can't be left open. He's not a guy like Rondo that you can just sag off, he'll make you pay.

Also, Lebron is the best player in the league at getting to the rim and getting high percentage shots, why would he not do that? That is his most effective and deadly tool and he uses it a lot because it works.

He is a very good ball handler, probably the best at his position in that aspect.

His defense isn't outstanding now, but his focus and intensity on that end have really improved throughout his career.

You say he does the same things he did as rookie, which is a certain extent true, but he sure as hell has gotten better at them.

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Also, Jesus Christ he has had

Also, Jesus Christ he has had a mediocre first games while he's getting adjusted to his new teammates. Cut the guy some slack, has he not proved that he's an outstanding player?

IndianaBasketball
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LeBron is a good shooter from

LeBron is a good shooter from mid-range, but that doesn't necesarily mean he has a good mid-range or in-between game.

LeBron is arguably the best driver of all time, but teams can pack the paint. You can trap or double him on the perimeter. However... It's A LOT harder to trap or double a player at that mid-post spot. That's why it's so important for him to add that to his game. It'll make not only him, but his team tougher to defend.

And saying he doesn't have much of a post game is very generous. He has NO post game at all. His footwork down there is pathetic. He has no idea what he's doing in the post.

LeBron fans hate it, but he hasn't really added anything new to his game. With his physical tools, he should be the best defender in the NBA. He should be able to draw a double team in the post, but teams are literally defending him one on one down there.

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Indiana, I do agree with you

Indiana, I do agree with you sort of, but do you not think he's a better, smarter player than he was when he first came into the league.

You aren't wrong per say, but I think you are rather hard on Lebron. You and other fans in general, as a matter of fact I do it too, tend to focus on what he can't do. Well he does have some limitations, but so does every player and there are a whole hell of a lot more things we can do.

I really do think will be a shame if basketball fans get so caught up in criticizing his game and figuring out what he should be, that they forget how special a basketball player he IS. The reason I do like him is that he is often a joy to watch play basketball, he dunks all over everyone, makes great passes, knocks down deep threes, hits game-winners, crosses people up and smacks shots into the stands.

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He's gotten a lot smarter,

He's gotten a lot smarter, which should happen as he's gained more experience.

But in regards to adding "new" things to his game, he hasn't. That's the truth. He's made his strengths even stronger, but just hasn't added anything new. I guess that's because his strengths are so great though.

I'd just like to see him have a complete game. It'd make him and his teams better because he wouldn't always have to dominate the ball, etc. He'd be much tougher to guard. I think that if he had a complete game in Cleveland, he'd have won a championship already.

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LeBron has hit the wall. I

LeBron has hit the wall. I remember getting negatives last summer for even mentioning the words LeBron and peak in the same sentence.

He's not gonna improve. But i'll ask this: From 2003-2007, did Kobe really improve?

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It's tough to say since Kobe

It's tough to say since Kobe has always had a complete game for the most part. He's just needed to refine his skills and make them stronger. And I think he's done that every season. Even as a 30 year old, he was still working on his post game, etc. His post game has actually gotten BETTER the last two seasons.

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What I do disagree about, is

What I do disagree about, is that I think Lebron can learn not too dominate the ball, as can Wade. They both dominated the ball out of necessity, as neither had a legit second option.

First of all, even if Lebron adjusts his game, as you said you hope he will, he will still have the ball in his hands a ton, seeing as he is essentially the pg for the Heat. But not dominating the ball is something that I feel like he can easily learn to do, he isn't a selfish player and I think just by virtue of playing with 2 other great players he will adapt.

I guess what I mean is, there are some things that you can't really add to your game. A mediocre passer can improve his court awareness, but he will never become a great passer. Ball dominance is something that is a virtue of the offense you play in and how you are used. Lebron can learn not to dominate the ball, where as a less talented passer can't all of the sudden learn to pass well. This is why I am optimistic about his chances for success in Miami.

In retrospect it was foolish to think that two very ball dominant players would just immediately mesh together, but just because they don't automatically have great chemistry doesn't mean they won't develop it. They are good friends, which I think is important, and I absolutely think that they will learn to fit their games together. I think it Wade being hurt during the pre season had bigger impact than we had initally thought, because they didn't have time to develop chemistry together.

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If MJ had Lebron's body and

If MJ had Lebron's body and athleticism, he would've been way better than Lebron's been so far. There are so many gaps in his game that have been hidden

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By the way I don't mean to

By the way I don't mean to come off like I think you are being unreasonable, if I did, I didn't mean to sound that way. I just think Lebron's outlook isn't near as bad as a lot of people seem to be making it out to be. He is only 25 and even if he adds absolutely nothing to his game, which I don't think will be the case, he will still go down as one of the best, most unique players of all time.

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IF LeBron doesn't dominate

IF LeBron doesn't dominate the ball, what is he going to do? We've seen it... He just stands there.

He doesn't have a post game. He doesn't have the mid-range game of a Kobe, Melo or Pierce. He doesn't use screens or move without the ball like Rip. He's not really a catch and shoot jump shooter, though he's looked better to start this season. He doesn't have the footwork to be very good in the low post and he hasn't shown a mid-post game in seven seasons.

IF LeBron isn't dominating the ball or having the ball in his hands for majority of the time, what is he going to do?

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So then his outlook is

So then his outlook is complete bleak and he'll be relegated to losing in the second round ever year? My point is that he has never had to do anything but stand there. My guess is now that he does, he will adjust.

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He'll adjust, but you just

He'll adjust, but you just don't all of the sudden have great footwork and moves in the post. You don't just all of the sudden know how to utilize a screen and move great without the ball. You don't all of the sudden just start feeling comfortable in the mid-post. A lot of these skills are skills you begin to start working on and perfecting during high school, and I don't think LeBron has ever had to do those things. He's always been ball dominant and no coach has had the balls to tell him to improve the rest of his game.

I think it's a bigger issue than you do.

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indiana basketball

I 100 percent agree with you he needs to dominate the ball a majority of the time to be effective because he doesn't have the in between game and foot work (kobe, carmelo) and other great scorers that have been in the league. Also I believe that his strengths are so strong and dominate such as his incredible strength speed and athleticism that he has not needed to work on and use these skills. I was watching the heat vs sixers the other night and I remember one posession where he held the ball until the shot clock reached 7 and turned the ball over now I dont want to nitpick but thats one of the many examples of how he dominates the ball entirely to much especially with this new heat team, although he will adjust.

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lebron's post game

I have seen him try and post people up before and he has no post game and horrible footwork, he basically just backs people down with his strenght and throws up a little jump hook. Also I have been reading alot of comments on this website and I agree with almost everything indiana basketball says I just had to throw that out there, you know your basketball bro

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@IndianaBasketball You say he

@IndianaBasketball

You say he doesn't shoot the mid-range like Kobe or Pierce and doesn't run around screens like RIP. I mean you're comparing to some of the best of the best in those categories. You could also say, nobody can chase down people like Lebron, nobody can have that size and strength and handle the ball like that or pass the ball like that, or nobody can stop him in transition and etc. Of course he is a ball dominant player and basically mostly he can do off the ball is cut to the basket but so what? Wade and Bosh have a good mid-range and so do, Mike Miller, Carlos Arroyo (probably the only real reason he's on that team), Eddy, Stackhouse and J.Johnson maybe? I think he can be a ball dominant player (if he doesn't avg 8 TO), I mean the argument: "IF Lebron doesn't dominate the ball what is he gonna do" is bs, because he will dominate the ball. He shot 5 threes a game and hits one third of them. That's solid, not great or Kobe-like or anything but it's solid, if you consider that he is not only taking open threes, but also pull up threes.

The big issue imo remains his post play, he probably will never be a great post player, but I don't think it should be too hard to learn to work for a deep post position if you're playing off the ball and finish with a reliable hook and an up and under or anything.

The biggest problem for the Heat so far is Bosh being a &$#%#&@!. His jumper fell so wonderfully in the pre-season and now in the first two games instead of shooting the open J, he pumpfakes, puts the ball on the floor and takes a tough floater. like wtf

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Lebron most definitely has

Lebron most definitely has not hit a wall he's only 25-26 yrs old and has gotten better each season. His jumpshot is still streaky, but has improved for the past few years and about his post game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jordan didn't develop a real post game until his 30s and wasn't Kobe 31 last year that was when his post game started to really shine through. You guys act like he's already in his 30s and hasn't improved since his rookie year which is rediculous. You already see that Lebron has been trying to go to the post more often, while not fully developed, he is adding it to his overall repertoire and it will continue to improve as time goes on

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@ChrischiThe point was that

@Chrischi

The point was that LeBron doesn't have a complete game. He can't dominate a game without literally dominating the ball and holding it for long periods of time.

And here's the problem with him dominating the ball the way he does... Ball movement stops and the offense is stagnant... Four players watching one dribble. As amazing as LeBron is, that's not good basketball. His teammates in the past have made those last second kickout jumpshots during the regular season, but they've failed under the pressure and bright lights of the playoffs when jumpshots don't always fall... I can't remember the last jumpshooting team to win a championship.

The key is ball movement, which means LeBron is going to have to learn to give it up. And not just stand there when he does. IF he just stands there, he's useless. He's going to have to expand his game and give his teammates more opportunities to have the ball, which will help their rhythm and feel for the game. He's going to have to make quicker decisions with the ball, so his teammates don't have a couple of seconds to make a decision when they finally get it. He's going to have to learn to put pressure on the defense without it always having to be off of the dribble and using the isolation/clearout. He has to find more ways to score and be effective than just dominating the ball.

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Lebron will be alright hes

Lebron will be alright hes got the IQ and work ethic to make changes to his game... IMO its easy to point out weakness in somebodys game you can do that with any player.. Lebron is arguably the most versatile player in basketball, right now he is going through what all great players have to go through to get to the top of the mountain: DOUBT AND CRITCISM... Its simple until he starts to win championships somebody will always have something negative to say about his game...

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