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LeBron; Clutch?

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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LeBron; Clutch?

I was at the gym last night and we were talking ball. Someone brought up a good point. He said LeBron isn't a closer. His reasoning? Check all the times Melo, Wade, and Kobe hit big shots or game winners. All the times Chauncey or Fisher hit big shots. They hit the shot, and get back on defense or walk back to the bench as if nothing happened, a simple fist pump or high five is all they need. When LeBron hit the game winning three vs Orlando in the playoffs, he ran around and jumped up and down like a 9 year old child receiving a Nintendo Wii for Christmas.

He's not used to hitting game winners. He's not a consistent closer. He doesn't know how to act before, after, and during the closing seconds of a close game. He doesn't have that "IT" factor. Atleast not CONSISTENTLY.


Malik-Universal
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"When LeBron hit the game

"When LeBron hit the game winning three vs Orlando in the playoffs, he ran around and jumped up and down like a 9 year old child receiving a Nintendo Wii for Christmas."

yeah i would be jumping up and down to if i hit a game winning three pt. shot in the third round

he had the series tied at one a piece instead of a 0-2 hole

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I'm not saying I agree or not

I'm not saying I agree or not but I would like to point out that LeBron couldn't get on back on defense against Orlando because it was a buzzer beater. That wasn't a great example.

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Lebron

Its not that he isn't clutch. He's not a clutch shooter. But when it comes to driving to the basket, there is little you can do to stop him. Either way...

Lebron = The best opener in the NBA
Kobe/Melo/and some times Jason Terry = Best closers. But I think Kobe mostly stands alone.

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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yupyup I also wrote "or walk

yupyup

I also wrote

"or walk back to the bench as if nothing happened"

and

"a simple fist pump or high five is all they need"

Hale
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I suppose. But I've seen Kobe

I suppose. But I've seen Kobe flip out and Chauncey got a little jacked when he did it against New Jersey. I don't think reacting to a game winner is really an issue unless there is time left and they score while you celebrate.

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I agree. He's not on Kobe or

I agree. He's not on Kobe or Melo's level in regards to closing. Usually in the final moments of the game, instead of doing what he's best at and driving it to the hole, he usually settles for a contested jumpshot, which he never makes. I really think that sometimes he doesn't drive because he's afraid to go to the free-throw line.

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damn dude

nicely done tongue out, you beat me to the punch. I was about to start a thread entitled "Lebron: The Most Unclutch Superstar Ever"....now I hate throwing out the "best ever" status that every media member does when they see a highlight but to this is absolutely true. You have 3 examples in the last 2 weeks, all three pointers. Missed a contested one against the Bulls that was way to early in the shot clock. Missed one against the Heat where people said was a "contested" shot but he created a lot of space on and Melo didn't get a hand up before the shot was out. And then tonight against the Magic was pathetic. HE WAS WIDE OPEN!!!!!!!!!!! he looked surprised when the ball got to him, which I can understand because it was a deflection but any GREAT player would collect themselves and knock that down. The only 3 gamewinners I can recall that he has ended up meaning nothing. He had the one layup against the Wizards where it looked like he walked/stepped out of bounds and they would have won the series anyway, the one against the Warriors which everyone popped a boner to, and the one against the Magic in the playoffs, which I will say was DISGUSTING. That shot was beautiful. But that was the only game they won so in the scheme of things doesnt mean &$#%#&@!.....He doesn't have IT. What SUPERSTAR on his level isn't clutch? Bird, Magic, Kobe, Jordan, Jerry West, Kareem, Bill Russell, even his teammate D-Wade is clutch. Right now I don't think Lebron will ever win a championship and maybe I'm wrong, but if they do it will be because they are blowing teams out. If it comes to crunch time, they better get the ball to Dwayne because Lebron has shown time and time again he doesn't have the CAJONES to get it done

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Wow. All you people have that

Wow. All you people have that edited history. I remember finishing alot of games in the past. He missed 2 game winners now he's not clutch? Come on now. I admit, LeBron isn't the greatest shooter, but he has closed out games.

We ALWAYS argue Kobe is more clutch then LeBron, but LeBron has never played with the talent Kobe had until this season. Go watch classic Kobe games, he struggles then hits a game winner and EVERYONE forgets he struggles. He went 8/22 last sunday vs OKC, do people remember that? Nope, they remember he hit a late shot to take the lead ( missed the following 3 that would have CLOSED the game)

Go back and watch the Cavs-Celtics and Cavs-Magic series. LeBron didn't have the chance to close because the talent around him SUCKED.

getacomb
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oops i meant against the

oops i meant against the knicks

getacomb
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knicksboy your wrong, doesn't

knicksboy your wrong, doesn't matter if the talent around him sucked. If your team is in a position to win and your the best player on the team and you get compared to Jordan and Kobe you better win that &$#%#&@! game

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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knicksboy That's why I said

knicksboy

That's why I said "He's not a consistent closer"

He can do it here and there, but not to the level of Melo, Kobe, Wade, and now, even DRose.

BKKnicksfan
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I was about to start a thread

I was about to start a thread entitled "Lebron: The Most Unclutch Superstar Ever".

Are you serious?

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yeah

i understand what your saying. he doesnt have that special kind of "thing" about him. it seems like he coudnt believe tht shot went in. all the other players you guys said know the ball will allways go in. wade has "it" and idk why lebron cant swallow up that big @$$ ego he has and give it to wade

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It was a good example because

@Universal

It was a good example because it ties into the behavior aspect ToungeOut was talking about. Closing games has definitely been an issue of signafigance for this Miami team which is 2-7 in 3 point games this season. At least half the playoff games they play will come down to the stretch, so they need to correct that issue ASAP, and Lebron as the dominant player on that team is held responsible in my opinion.

Michael.S.
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What shot has Melo hit of

What shot has Melo hit of true meaning? Or Rose? Or Durant?

None, I don't get how they are considered clutch players, someone explain.

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I think Melo and Kobe are

I think Melo and Kobe are better closers then LeBron. But I think LeBron's troubles are vastly overblown because everything he does gets talked about 100 times more then any other athlete. I remember KG when in Minny missed 3 game winners in a week and hardly anyone brought it up, but when LeBron does it he is the worst closer ever. I think we all need to chill a little on LBJ.

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He can do it here and there,

He can do it here and there, but not to the level of Melo, Kobe, Wade, and now, even DRose.

But that's incorrect either. Derrick Rose isn't clutch all the time, Kobe isn't, Wade isn't and Melo isn't. LeBron is RARELY in clutch situations before this season where he team could win. He missed shots he shouldn't have taken, that's it.

Funny, noone wants to mention the pass LeBron made in the clutch to Eddie House. Noone wants to talk about that crappy team he had to lead to the playoffs. Like I said before, Kobe gets to coast, LeBron doesn't. We talking about closing, but Kobe has players to keep the team up right if he's out of a groove. LeBron didn't up until this season.

andxxx
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Umm... Kobe has made one game

Umm... Kobe has made one game winner his entire career in the playoffs which was against the Suns while Lebron made 1 against the magic and two against the Wizards both layups but still he's been one of the most clutch players the past 2 seasons and is doing bad in the clutch for 1 year and all of a sudden he sucks. Here are the stats

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM-08-09


http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM-09-10

http://www.82games.com/1011/10MIA8.HTM#clutch-10-11


Tongue-Out-Like-23
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Everybody pulls out those

Everybody pulls out those stupid 82games.com clutch "stats"

According to your reasoning, andxxx.. You would prefer Tyreke Evans to take the game winning shot rather than Manu Ginobili? Click on your 2nd link, Evans is above Ginobili.

Don't bring up those foolish stats again unless you're sure you'd take Evans over Ginobili.

andxxx
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Did you not just read that

Did you not just read that Lebron has made 3 game winners in the playoffs plus that 29 of last 30 points for Cavs against the Pistons in the playoffs. Tell me about all the clutch plays Melo, Wade, Kobe and Rose have done in the playoffs instead of just saying the stats I have are BS.

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I think they need to start

I think they need to start heating up dwayne Wade for the playoffs (no pun intended). Wade becomes a whole different kind of beast in Playoff games, and is absolutely clutch. In a game that my team is down by 1 point with 15 seconds on the clock, with the ball, I would rather Wade have the ball then Lebron.

Michael.S.
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Kobe missed 2 gamewinners at

Kobe missed 2 gamewinners at the buzzer in the playoffs last year and choked in one of the biggest games of his life.

Melo has yet to get out of the first round, if i remember correctly

Durant was thouroughly shut down in the whole series against LA last year, and he took a first round out in his only playoff series so far,

Rose has yet to hit any type of big shot in a ame that really counts and he hasn't done much in the real season, the playoffs at all in his young career.....

What I'm getting at is, players miss shots and have bad games you just gotta account for what they have done and accomplished.

andxxx
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Please tell me how Wade is

Please tell me how Wade is more clutch than Lebron besides when the refs gave him all the calls in that playoff series against the Magic

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ill say this.. i rather have

ill say this.. i rather have lebron attempt a gw shot than darko

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Melo went to the Conference

Melo went to the Conference Finals when he get beat out bye Kobe and the Lakers 2 years ago I believe...I dotn care what anyone has to say Imgoing to kee telling you, forget about the past look at right now. The Heat are 2-7 in 3 point games and Lebron is there most dominant player. NOW SOMEONE MAKE AN EXCUSE FOR THAT.

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Look I don't consider Lebron

Look I don't consider Lebron a better closer than Kobe, but considering he has made 3 game winning shots in the playoffs and him against the Pistons in the playoffs you can't tell me he isn't clutch at all or does not have a killer instinct when I've seen what this guy can do.

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LeBron seems to have poor

LeBron seems to have poor decision making at the end of games sometimes. Taking leaning or contested threes when he is almost guaranteed 2 foul shots from a drive is bad decision making, which is apart of not knowing how to close or being a bad closer. He doesn't do it all the time, but there is no reason LeBron should be taking those types of shots when it is unecessary. It's almost like he's trying to prove something.

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Heats Record In 3 Point Games!

2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2 -7
2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7
2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2 -7
2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7
2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2 -7
2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-72-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2 -7
2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7
2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2 -7
2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7
2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2 -7
2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7 2-7

Hale
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Honestly that number means

Honestly that number means nothing to me. Do you know what Aaron Rodgers is in 3 or 4 point games? Its like 8 or 10 games under .500 yet he just won a Super Bowl. 2-7 is a number and a statistic, not a law. Maybe they win 3 or 4 in a row and all of a sudden it's decent. I hate stats like that. They don't tell the whole story 99% of the time.

NYCrealdeal
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and dont

bring up those stats unless u take lou williams over wade smh

boxn1
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Clutch is a subjective thing.

Clutch is a subjective thing. Because it isn't totally about making shots. Its about decision making. Lebron is capable of making any shot there is(including 3's). Game winners, ehh. The decisions and plays made(or missed) in the last 3-4 mins in a one possesion game determines a players clutch to me.

And to you overly sensitive Lebron fans,STOP BRINGING UP KOBE!!!!! There is no comparison,they are in 2 different places in their careers. Kobe has won as the sidekick,and as the main guy. Lebron has time to write his own story,he isn't there yet though

Michael.S.
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I agree with Steriod,

I agree with Steriod, actually.

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Lebron did have a point,

Lebron did have a point, rebound, or assist in the 4th.

EuroBall
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Time to Mature

Lebron is still in that growing up stand in his game. Just last season he was on Cleveland acting like a groofball with his teammates before every game. He starting to become that mature player and all about bussiness now.

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I meant didnt

I meant didnt

iguapops420
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I've used game three as an

I've used game three as an example the same way many times, in many arguments. Bron ran around like it was the first shot he ever hit. It's not for a lack of desire to be big in the clutch, IMO, it's his lack of Knowhow. He doesn't know how to plug himself into a game consistently. He's not confident enough in his shooting ability, and his unmatched driving ability isn't quite as effective at the end of a game. I've always said LeBron would never win as a number one, and that at the end of the day, it's gonna take D-Wade to be Batman if they wanna win.

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To me, LeBron is the ultimate

To me, LeBron is the ultimate Scottie Pippen. I always felt the same way about T-Mac, but to a much lesser extent. And I thought poorly of T-Mac as a clutch player.

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For the record, T-Mac is my

For the record, T-Mac is my favorite player. That wasn't a slight towards him as I always thought he was amazing. Just that he was Scottie Pippen part 2 and Lebron is Pippen on Baskeball Roids.

B-ball fan
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Dirk

He is the best closer in the NBA other than maybe Kobe.

Meditated States
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How the f^ck do yall credit Melo as such a great closer

His teams have not closed out sh!t in the playoffs. He hit what a few game winners now he is a Kobe level closer? Come on.Denver doing better without him. Not saying he is not good, but show me it in the playoffs if Melo is this great closer. Lebron is not a closer, just not his game.

Jlv2012
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the best closer will be the NBA lockout

this year.

sacphil_08
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all you lebron homers need to

all you lebron homers need to get a job... dude isnt clutch. clutch isnt always about game winners. its about "daggers" shots that just kill the other team. make a one possession game a two possession game and therefore unwinnable. lebron cant close games out. he got those layups against the wizards but they played some of the worst defense youll ever see. but i wont take that away from him. he can get to the rim and when he does hes nearly impossible to stop. but hes not clutch. d wade even said that of their 18 losses something like 14 were by less than 3 and lebron is the one taking those shots and not delivering. his main problem is that he isnt an ice cold shooter like a kobe or melo. his confidence in his jumper goes away when its the final minutes of games because hes not a great jump shooter. he gets hot every so often but not when its the end of games. in the end of games he actually always drives to the rim looking for either a layup or a foul so he can shoot free throws (see boston a few weeks ago and new york just last sunday) so no he isnt clutch. d wade is much better in those situations and i still dont think hes a great closer either. he has some of the same issues offensively as lebron does. and bring the negatives... truth hurts people

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Not to mention LBJ STILL

Not to mention LBJ STILL doesn't know how to put his stamp on a game if the ball isn't in his hands 24-7. For all the flash and assist numbers the guy gets, he just doesn't make that much impact late in a game. You saw Kobe shooting as poor as could be game 7 vs. Boston yet still found a way to be clutch with his INSANE rebounding that game. Bron still has yet to figure that out as evidenced by him just hanging in the corner vs. Bos just prior to being eliminated.

As for Melo, he's hit a number of clutch shots in his career. He's not had a super large amount of success in the post season, but he's still consistently beating LeBron. If nothing else, he's clutch against the one man in his conference that he really needs to be clutch against. I stll say give Melo time.

Kobe

Melo

Pierce

Terry

Crawford

All guys i think are more clutch than LBJ. And thats not even mentioning Dirk, and guys who aren't as big names but very clutch such as Fisher.

Bron aint a winner! I'll say it now and forever. He don't win &$#%#&@! as the main guy.

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lebron isnt a clutch shooter

lebron isnt a clutch shooter and every1 should get that through their heads, but he is a great game starter. also some of u have to get off kobe's balls imo hes not the best closer, some of u guys are so busy watching his balls that you dont see how much he actually MISSES. he always gets bailed out by his teamates that a lot of people dont notice when he misses. kobe always had great teamates around him execpt that 1 or 2 year when he had bad teamates. the best closer imo is dirk. and iguapops u sound rediculous and a obvious lj hater. either u like the dude or not hes the best player in the game, he just needs a killer insticnt and the mentality to close out games.

andxxx
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In reality I think everyone

In reality I think everyone chokes or just plain misses shots u point out Dirk, he us a great closer, but I can also point to the crucial misses he had in 2006 even Jordan didn't make every shot, but even ppl like Kobe who everyone considers the consensus closes misses PLENTY of shots in the clutch, but as the guy above me said we only talk about the ones he makes when it comes to Kobe

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IF I'd have made this thread,

IF I'd have made this thread, I'd have been accused of "hating" LeBron by all of the LeBron homers.

LeBron is, overall, the best player in the NBA and we've all seen him dominate games... Dominate fourth quarters (like against the Pistons). We've seen him lead big fourth quarter comebacks... We've seen him have amazing games and all of that, BUT...

He's just missing *something* when it comes to putting that final dagger in a team at the most pressure moment on a consistent basis.

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Kobe does miss a lot.

Kobe does miss a lot. Everyone knows Kobe isn't the most efficient killer. Eric Pincus even mentioned this in a chat recently in reference to Kobe's nickname of the Dagger should have always been the Uzi. But that's simply because he Rarely if EVER gets the kind of open looks these other players get. Take a look back through all of Kobe's game winners and very often you will find 2 even 3 defenders at times. That's why he's the best. He strikes the fear in hearts and maes others doubt themselves while always thinking the next shot is money. And let's get real, Kobe has had to bail his team out far more times. Kobe is simply the best closer of our generation. Top5 all-time. Again, like you said, there are other aspects other than scoring such as grabbing 14 rebounds in the worst shooting game of your career. Game 7 Vs. Bos., as apposed to camping in the corner shying away from even having the chance to make a mistake. LBJ is his his toughest defender as he is so high on his own ego that he refuses to look bad in game, even at the sake of losing. Until LBJ decides to stop taking his talents to South Beach and starts taking them to the 4th quarter, he ain't winning nuttin as the main guy.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RVmaHtRHFY

And that's just last year.

BTW, forgot to mention the fact that after playing LOCKDOWN defender through most of the olympics,... Bryant,... when things got rough, decided it was time to win and simply imposed his will on the game putting 13 of his 20 points in the fourth quarter giving USA olympic gold in a comeback VS. Spain.

http://www.onemanfastbreak.net/2008/08/25/kobe-saves-team-usa-looks-ahead-to-london-in-2012/

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I agree with Indiana's last

I agree with Indiana's last post.

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