share

Kobe top 10 guards (harsh MJ, harsh)

SikNinjaSkillz
SikNinjaSkillz's picture
Registered User
Joined: 10/15/2010
Posts: 23
Points: 69
Offline
Kobe top 10 guards (harsh MJ, harsh)

Can anyone tell me 9 guards they would rank ahead of Kobe? I'm thinking top 3. Top 5 minimum.

If he said greatest players (all positions) I might agree, but I think MJ is hating a little bit on Kobe.


Mr.Knick 32
Mr.Knick 32's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/17/2010
Posts: 4648
Points: -72
Offline
Jordan, Jerry West, Oscar

Jordan, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Magic and John Havelchik. Maybe Walt Fraizer but that's just me.

Kobe's top 6 IMO

monkey23
Registered User
Joined: 06/23/2010
Posts: 93
Points: -96
Offline
Jordan Magic Oscar Robertson

Jordan

Magic

Oscar Robertson

monkey23
Registered User
Joined: 06/23/2010
Posts: 93
Points: -96
Offline
Good call, Mr.Knick. I forgot

Good call, Mr.Knick. I forgot about the others.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11732
Points: 11415
Offline
i put kobe number 2 behind

i put kobe number 2 behind only jordan. Calling him top 10 is just hating.

thunderforthewin
thunderforthewin's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/26/2009
Posts: 308
Points: 225
Offline
Mj

I think Mj just said that being diplomatic and not really thinking through 9 better gaurds or whatever

Its alot less controversial to just say top 10, then say hes 2nd to me or I dont rate him at all

AndyBeng2
Registered User
Joined: 03/25/2010
Posts: 80
Points: 70
Offline
For me ranking gurads

For me ranking gurads all-time

1) Jordan- obvious reasons

2) Magic- He was the man and has the rings to show it

3) The Big O- averaged a trip dub for a season started the do-it-all guard thing

4) Kobe- he's the best guard of the NOW generation and possibly may move up to #2 all-time on the guards list for me when it's all said and done. He'd have to win 7 or 8 rings to be better than Jordan to me in my eyes, then still I may not put him on MJ's level

Mr.Knick 32
Mr.Knick 32's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/17/2010
Posts: 4648
Points: -72
Offline
I don't think Kobe is better

I don't think Kobe is better then Magic IMO.

Oscar was a beast in the league and had some TERRIBLE luck. Same with Clyde, that's why I included him

Also, I think Havelchik is underrated his numbers are good in a legit era.

West...he to me is arguable.

I feel you LL because you saw the Evolution of Kobe.

Im Your Father
Im Your Father's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/06/2009
Posts: 1231
Points: 1697
Offline
I don't think he's being

I don't think he's being diplomatic, I think he just has an enormous ego and can't stand the thought of anyone ever coming close to him. In fact, he has nothing to fear, Kobe will not be as good as him, but MJ hears uninformed fans say that Kobe is better and he feels insecure, so he feels the need to cut Kobe back down to size.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11732
Points: 11415
Offline
big o played in a different

big o played in a different era. His jumper was limited to about 15 feet. I always have to look at stats back then with a grain of salt. Guys were putting up stupid numbers and there was a lot more possesions with more shot attempts and less defense.

Magic was a very poor defender.

GIve me kobe over those 2 any day.

SikNinjaSkillz
SikNinjaSkillz's picture
Registered User
Joined: 10/15/2010
Posts: 23
Points: 69
Offline
Maybe its just his judge in talent...

He did draft Adam Morrison and Kwame Brown afterall

Tongue-Out-Like-23
Tongue-Out-Like-23's picture
Registered User
Joined: 03/16/2010
Posts: 8299
Points: 11847
Offline
Jordan, West, Magic,

Jordan, West, Magic, Robertson..

But I would put Kobe at 3 behind Jordan and Magic.

Im Your Father
Im Your Father's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/06/2009
Posts: 1231
Points: 1697
Offline
That's what irritates me when

That's what irritates me when people speak of Jordan as some sort of definitive source of basketball knowledge. "MJ says Kobe is better than Lebron so it must be true."Yes, he is the greatest of all time, but he is also incredibly biased and actively tries to downplay anyone he perceives as a threat. This is especially stupid, because he was such an incredible player that at this point, no one has even come close to threatening him as the best of all time.

Pacers_Fan33
Registered User
Joined: 04/17/2010
Posts: 140
Points: 297
Offline
woah

AndyBeng2
Registered User
Joined: 03/25/2010
Posts: 80
Points: 70
Offline
I understand taking the old

I understand taking the old time players stats with a grain of salt, but I look at it if they could succeed in todays game I consider them GREAT, that is why I have Oscar up there but not West. I know some will say West could do what Nash does, but that is just opinion and in my opinion he would be on the bench. He just played in the perfect era for his game. And whoever said Magic was bad at D was wrong, he wasnt horrible, but he was decent, he averaged 3 steals in one season, and he was 6'9" no guard could take him around the paint

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11732
Points: 11415
Offline
well, i watched tons of magic

well, i watched tons of magic play, and his d was bad. He played off his man by quite a bit. And there are numerous journalists and sports writers in los angeles that love him and think the world of him and they openly admit he was a terrible defender.

Sup
Registered User
Joined: 09/04/2009
Posts: 643
Points: -329
Offline
Objectively speaking, Michael

Objectively speaking, Michael has never named himself to be the #1 guard. He always refers to himself as simply in the conversation. So I think he is just being prudent. Top 10 doesn't mean not top 5 or even top 2. I think his jab is more at the state of the NBA today. He is just saying the competition is too weak to tell.

Nonetheless this will surely motivate Kobe.

mikeyvthedon
mikeyvthedon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 5559
Points: 12472
Offline
Guys

Yes, Michael Jordan is arrogant, and yes, saying top 10 in regards to Kobe might be seen as a slight. But when somebody says, "Michael Jordan is a top 10 guard of all-time", it is just a broad description. Michael did not exactly list guards in front of Kobe, I think it was his attempt to be diplomatic after his, "I would drop 100" quip. To me, Kobe is the second best guard of All-Time, I actually rate him #2 All-Time in general behind Michael. But, I think people are taking this a little too seriously. It wasn't like, "Well, I think you have Magic, Oscar, Jerry West, Bob Cousy, Sam Jones, Walt Frazier, Gary Payton, Scott Skiles, Hersey Hawkins, Steve Nash, Clyde Drexler, and than that Bryant dude is like, 7 spots away in there." Stop taking what Michael Jordan says so seriously people! He is the best player to have ever played the game, but as we know, that does not necessarily make everything he says the gospel. He gave Kobe a backhanded compliment and everyone goes bananas. I mean, look at the Bobcats and when he was with the Wizards. He was the guy that did draft Adam Morrison after all, and was also the guy who was pissed off when people couldn't palm the ball like an apple like he was able to do. Sometimes, great players are short sighted at some of the qualities others may lack that made them so great. Also, while they may be great, that competitive edge may live on, which could, I don't know, lead them to say Kobe Bryant is a top 10 guard rather than right behind them. When I put it like that, it is no wonder Michael put it that way, it would sound better than the other thing.

Jlv2012
Registered User
Joined: 06/23/2010
Posts: 1320
Points: -2126
Offline
Only one way for Kobe to handle this:

He needs 7 rings.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11732
Points: 11415
Offline
if someone said jordan was a

if someone said jordan was a top 10 gaurd of all time, he would be pissed. He would be pissed if you said he was top 2 or 3 gaurd of all time.

Mr.Knick 32
Mr.Knick 32's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/17/2010
Posts: 4648
Points: -72
Offline
But isin't that Jordan's

But isin't that Jordan's opinion.

In Jordan's mind, Kobe is one of the 10 but I remember him talking highly of Sidney Moncrief and Mitch Richmond. Maybe it was a opinion thing.

knicksfan7
Registered User
Joined: 06/18/2009
Posts: 3069
Points: 1484
Offline
MJ has always spoke very

MJ has always spoke very highly of Mitch Richmond, said that Mitch was the hardest guy he ever had to defend because his offensive game had no real weaknesses.

SikNinjaSkillz
SikNinjaSkillz's picture
Registered User
Joined: 10/15/2010
Posts: 23
Points: 69
Offline
Its not all about rings ...

But Jordan SHOULD have had 8 if he didn't give baseball a try... and maybe more if the Bulls would have held on to Jackson a few more years and keep the dynasty together.

Michael.S.
Registered User
Joined: 05/10/2009
Posts: 5992
Points: 1965
Offline
Saying Havlicek is better

Saying Havlicek is better than Kobe is ludicrous.

Oscar and Magic are both point guards in my eyes, so Kobe is number 2.

Jordan

Kobe

West(close but I'll give Kobe slight edge)

Wade

Mr.Knick 32
Mr.Knick 32's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/17/2010
Posts: 4648
Points: -72
Offline
Wade is not a top 4 guard in

Wade is not a top 4 guard in the history of the NBA.... There are a couple better then him.

Michael.S.
Registered User
Joined: 05/10/2009
Posts: 5992
Points: 1965
Offline
Name them.

Name them.

Toronto16
Toronto16's picture
Registered User
Joined: 07/17/2009
Posts: 2592
Points: 3891
Offline
Kobe is second behind Jordan.

Kobe is second behind Jordan. I just really think Jordan is bitter that he is not in the NBA anymore, and wants to talk bad about the guys in the league right now cause he knows they would never cut it in Jordans heyday.

TheWizard
TheWizard's picture
Registered User
Joined: 08/14/2010
Posts: 209
Points: 629
Offline
agreed

I think that Jordan has sadly turned into an insecure old man. He just can't handle the thought of another player being compared to him or considered better by some. The first obvious sign of this was at the Hall of Fame presentation. He was a great player, but I don't know if I like him as a person.

Im Your Father
Im Your Father's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/06/2009
Posts: 1231
Points: 1697
Offline
@Reke DMC, that pretty much

@Reke DMC, that pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly.

Mr.Knick 32
Mr.Knick 32's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/17/2010
Posts: 4648
Points: -72
Offline
Better then Wade? Here are

Better then Wade?

Here are the guards (shooting and point) better then D-Wade as of today:

Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Oscar, Havelchick, Isiah Thomas, Stockton, Iverson, Gervin, Payton, Kidd and Dennis Johnson.

mj23mj23bestever
Registered User
Joined: 09/29/2010
Posts: 1081
Points: 361
Offline
i got kobe at 4 behind mj

i got kobe at 4 behind mj magic and the big o and imo if kobe wins a couple more rings hes number 2 behind mj and yes i agree magic didnt play good d at all but if our starting a team how do u not want him as ur pg and on the wade comment i love d wade but hes not top ten of all time yet already mentioned four better then i got in no particulair order clyde drexler and clyde frazier steve nash john stockton ai all above d wade

IndianaBasketball
IndianaBasketball's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/09/2009
Posts: 12530
Points: 23362
Offline
MJ isn't hating on Kobe. He

MJ isn't hating on Kobe. He has tremendous respect for Kobe and always has... Since Kobe was a rookie. He just recently said Kobe was better than LeBron and still the best player in the league.

Even back during the Kobe, VC, T-Mac and A.I. debate, MJ was quick to say Kobe was the best two guard. He's always supported Kobe and if you listen to Kobe, he'll acknowledge how much he's learned from MJ and how great of a mentor MJ has been to him. They have a close relationship. He uses the same trainers MJ used. He's picked up a lot of his work ethic from MJ.

I honestly think MJ was just being diplomatic. IF he was to sit down and actually make a list, I'm sure Kobe would be in his top five. And EVEN if Kobe isn't in his top five, it's his opinion.

NJHooper95
NJHooper95's picture
Registered User
Joined: 07/19/2010
Posts: 547
Points: 867
Offline
Very Difficult to Judge

Its very difficult and unfair to rank a player as being top 10 ever or all-time. You have to judge players by how they dominated their era. If you took jameer nelson now and could have played against Bob Cousy he would have destroyed him. Jameer is an average point guard in today's league and Cousy was a god when he was playing, but it shows the change in eras. There is no real way to say, Mike played against different people, with different rules, as did Kobe. All I know is Cousy dominated his era, Mike dominated his era and Kobe along with Tim Duncan and Shaq dominated their era. Kobe still has a few years of greatness left, but maybe he will leave Ducan and Shaq behind in the conversation.

Michael.S.
Registered User
Joined: 05/10/2009
Posts: 5992
Points: 1965
Offline
ONLY

I was only ranking SG's THATS IT...my bad, I should hae said that...

That means, Magic, Oscar, Iverson, Thomas are all excluded...

MY SG LIST

Jordan

Kobe

West

Wade

Thompson

PG's

Magic

Oscar

Iverson

Stockton

Kidd

Keep in mind that this is strictly off the top of my head!!!

immaletufinishbut
immaletufinishbut's picture
Registered User
Joined: 10/06/2010
Posts: 103
Points: 129
Offline
I honestly think he was

I honestly think he was taking a shot at the nba today, not kobe bryant himself. He feels that the nba has taken a step back physically. Jordan and many other greats have pointed that out on various occasions that some of the fouls called today would not be called " back in the day ". Jordan played in an era when players actually played defense, today the ref will blow the whistle just for looking at someone too hard.

Im Your Father
Im Your Father's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/06/2009
Posts: 1231
Points: 1697
Offline
I think that the glory of the

I think that the glory of the old days is being overplayed somewhat. Yes people played more physical defense, but I'm not sure that all around better defense was played. NBA players are bigger, faster and more athletic than ever before and I tend to think that better overall defense is played now, although perhaps then there were a few better individual defenders.

Also, I think the stars of today could have been just as successful if they had been in their primes in the 90s. I'm not saying Jordan still wouldn't have been the greatest, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have won as much if he'd had to go up against Kobe and Lebron in their primes. I feel like especially those two could have used the more physical game to their advantage.

Steroid
Steroid's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/13/2010
Posts: 842
Points: 1052
Offline
When you say the NBA has

When you say the NBA has taken a step back physically, I wouldn't say the players have. The average player today is probably more athletic than the average player a a couple decades or so ago. althletic training and technology has become much more advanced, and that allows players to become very athletic. Even Jerry West talked in an interview about how players are more athletic in the NBA now than ever, and if the players back then had access to what players have now, it would have been a different game. Obviously, there were some athletic guys back in the past, but in general, there was a gap which led to ridiculous feats such as the 100 point game by wilt and the season triple double by Oscar. That is why it's hard to actually compare players from different eras. Also the big men and wings are much more athletic now. The game has transformed a lot now. The NBA rules is what gives this idea that the NBA isn't as physical as what it used to be, not the players. The NBA rules back in Jordan's era gave less athletic players the ability to check him. In this era, he would probably score more not because of the player, but because of the rules. I am positive that some guys now could physically check Jordan just as good as some of the guys back then if they used the same rules. I'm not trying to say they would shut him down, but the defense would be acceptable. Defense is hard to play in the NBA today because of the rules. It's not the player's fault...

leppy
Registered User
Joined: 05/08/2009
Posts: 214
Points: 89
Offline
top 10

jordan

russell

magic

duncan

shaq

kareem

bird

wilt

kobe

olujawon

kobe is third among guards. bird is the only combo forward on the list.

leppy
Registered User
Joined: 05/08/2009
Posts: 214
Points: 89
Offline
the big O

O stands for what he did. Nothing. You dont win your just another loser

Ang Puti Lalaki
Ang Puti Lalaki's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 1043
Points: 1231
Offline
top 10 today?

I thought he had implied kobe was one of the top ten guards now playing, that sounded about right to me, but top 10 of all time?

why is Jordon trying to build kobe up?

p.s. he pushed off!

sheltwon3
sheltwon3's picture
Registered User
Joined: 03/30/2009
Posts: 6364
Points: 2607
Offline
Jordan said he was top 10

Jordan said he was top 10 guard of all time. He did not say he was number 10. Jordan was giving props without upseting anyone else. Most people would not question top 10 guard of all time but top 5 and some would get mad a Jordan so he kept it politically correct.

JoeWolf1
JoeWolf1's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/28/2009
Posts: 7817
Points: 15333
Offline
I 100% agree with Indiana

I 100% agree with Indiana Basketball, Jordan has openly praised Kobe in the past and honestly if it wasn't for all this press about Jordan being a bitter old man it probably wouldn't even be in the news. If Jordan said Kobe was #2 then people would be slamming him for not giving Magic or Jerry West props. I think Jordan said top 10 without giving it a whole lot of thought. Kobe released a statement saying he knows how MJ feels about him and that it's a non issue.

Mkadoza
Mkadoza's picture
Registered User
Joined: 07/15/2009
Posts: 1358
Points: 1371
Offline
I don't wanna get into

I don't wanna get into rankings, but can we get some love for Clyde Drexler? He was often over shadowed being Jordan's contemporary, but the guy could do it all.

JoeWolf1
JoeWolf1's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/28/2009
Posts: 7817
Points: 15333
Offline
I loved Drexler, but he

I loved Drexler, but he wasn't on the same level as MJ. One of my favorite players of the era though

sheltwon3
sheltwon3's picture
Registered User
Joined: 03/30/2009
Posts: 6364
Points: 2607
Offline
Drexler did not even dribble

Drexler did not even dribble well with both hands. Also they always talked about how he would dribble with his head down on fast breaks.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11732
Points: 11415
Offline
if i were to rank the best

if i were to rank the best sg's that i have seen play, it would go lke this:

1-michael jordan

2-kobe bryant

3-dwyane wade/allen iverson (not sure about this one so ill call it 3a and 3b)

5-clyde drexler

6-mitch richmond

guys like vince carter, ray allen, reggie miller, joe johnson, brandon roy, latrell sprewell and others just miss out and can be listed in any number of ways.

RUDEBOY_
RUDEBOY_'s picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/10/2010
Posts: 7101
Points: 12770
Offline
I saw Magic play..And even

I saw Magic play..And even though he wasnt a great lock down defender,he wasnt a bad defender.Becuz of his height he would find himself guarding any position..It was when he matched up with quicker guards when he had problems...

NYK2010
Registered User
Joined: 05/09/2009
Posts: 2459
Points: 1499
Offline
Wade might end up a top 4 SG

Wade might end up a top 4 SG but he isn't rite now.

Right now Ray Allen, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, Dumars, George Gervin, and Drexler are better than him.

In 6 or 7 years he'll probably have surpassed all of them.

After that we'll see how many rings he has and who knows he could be a better than Iverson, West and Kobe. Also where does Tmac rank on this list he's gotta be top 15-20 at worst considering he had about 8 dominant years.

Sup
Registered User
Joined: 09/04/2009
Posts: 643
Points: -329
Offline
Wade lolz. You youngsters!!

Wade lolz. You youngsters!! Lolz, Wade. Iverson will forever be ahead of Wade.

IndianaBasketball
IndianaBasketball's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/09/2009
Posts: 12530
Points: 23362
Offline
The problem with a lot of

The problem with a lot of people, especially teenagers, is that they don't know how to respect or appreciate a player for what he did during his era.

You can't just whipe Bob Cousy off of the map. You can't just whipe Jerry West, the NBA logo, off of the map. You can't ignore that Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double for a season and nearly for his career. You can't forget that before Kevin Durant, there was George Gervin. You can't ignore how Magic Johnson was the LeBron James of his day and the overall impact he had on the league. John Stockton is the all-time leader in assists and steals, and is one of the most efficient guards ever. You can't ignore how phenomenal and nasty Isiah Thomas was before their was an Allen Iverson or Chris Paul.

It's tougher than people think to rank a top ten.

JoeWolf1
JoeWolf1's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/28/2009
Posts: 7817
Points: 15333
Offline
Agreed, Indiana Basketball,

Agreed, Indiana Basketball, and Jordan knew that when he made that quote. He fought tooth and nail battles with the top players in the NBA in the 80's and early 90's. I think he has too high of a respect for them and the guys that came before him to openly say Kobe is better than they are. He has a world of respect for Kobe too, and thinks he is one of the best to play the game, but I actually think he made a good call. When you look at his actual quote he gave Kobe respect and gave respect to the players in his era and before. If his Hall of Fame speech were different this would have sparked a friendly debate rather than accusations of Jordan bashing every good player that isn't named Michael Jordan.

RSS: Syndicate content