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Kobe and Michael

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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Kobe and Michael

I was reading SLAM magazine issue 141.

"Kobe was drafted into the NBA at the age of 17. His parents had to sign his contract because he wasn't of age yet. The world will never love Kobe as much as Michael, maybe that's cause Michael came first. If the order had been reversed, Kobe would have been the IMAX with Michael Jordan wearing Kobe's throwback at the All-Star Game. Kobe's got seven years on the crybaby King James. I mean Queen James. I said it, Queen James. Bron might as well marry Shaq. Now that the Finals are over I can't wait to see Kobe on another cover, with five rings, while Bron has non. Maybe now you'll do an issue on Kobe alone."
-Andrew Olsen//Sandy, UT

Do you believe if it was reversed, we would love Kobe more than Jordan? Think about it closely and take away your love for Jordan and hate for Kobe and really think about it.

I'm a Laker-Kobe-Hater.. but if I forget about all the negatives I can say about Kobe and think of him coming first, would he be the G.O.A.T.?


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People now really

People now really underestimate the caliber of defender Jordan was for his entire career. Kobe is a top notch defender now, but he wasn't always that way. He had to learn to be an effective NBA defender, and still isn't the caliber of defender Jordan was. Jordan won a defensive player of the year award. How many guys competing for the scoring tittle can say that. I respect Kobe as a basketball player and the best player of his generation. That being said, he wasn't on the same level as Jordan, he is as close as anyone since MJ, but his defensive resume over his entire career is not what MJ's is. If MJ came later people would recognize that his defensive game was better and at an earlier age. Jordan dropped just under 29 ppg as a rookie and Kobe dropped just over 7. They came out at different times in their career, and no respect to Kobe, but before or after MJ would still be the G.O.A.T

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Kobe

If he had the same game in jordans era he would probably be the g.o.a.t. Everyone would be wearing Bryants.

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Kobe will never win DPOY as

Kobe will never win DPOY as long as D Howard stays healthy and I dont think MJ would of won either with Howard playing as good as he is now at defense

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Can someone.....

Please explain why Jordan was so heralded as a defensive stopper? It is common knowledge that Pippen was the best defender on the team, would take the opposing team's best offensive option and allow Jordan to roam. I think the Lakers try to do the same thing with Kobe, and I don't understand why he is heralded as a top defender either. Kobe and Jordan have a similar work ethic and determination, but that does not necessarily equate to a top defender.

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When MJ won DPOY he was a

When MJ won DPOY he was a lock down perimeter defender who averaged 3.2 steals and 1.6 blocks. I think that would trump any season Howard put up he beat out Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Mark Eaton, I don't think Dwight Howard would have effected him winning that award.

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Jordan >>>>>>>>> Kobe

But remember Jordan put up some OUTSTANDING numbers in a defnesive minded era it was tougher back then not sayin Kobe wouldnt do great back then but Jordan went through hell to get his titles Kobe played in the money era so if Jordan were here now he'd average 35-6-8 easily just because back then they played for the love of the game and now they play for money the money the money

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But HD_The_Kid, it all

But HD_The_Kid, it all balances out. Jordan had to go through hand checking and it was really tough to score back in his era, but I say it balances out because in Kobe's era, the defenders are more athletic then the defenders in Jordan's era. In Jordan's era, most players were not as athletic, not as quick, and not as strong as the players in Kobe's generation, and I'm sure everybody can agree with me on that.

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i truly believe they are

i truly believe they are equals as to how good they are. But you have to put jordan first becasue his resume is a little stronger and he came first. I do believe the game has only gotten tougher in terms of athletic wing defenders, so kobe is fighting off guys like lebron and wade where jordan had zero peers on the permiter.

Now stepping back from the who was better aspect and just looking at how they would be loved, Jordan came into the league when there was very little marketing. He was the first basketball marketing superstar. He got nike, gatorade and mcdonalds and all the other companies to back him and that made him a global icon. Nobody can ever touch him that regard becasue he was the first and now adays being on tv and having your own shoe is just common.

Also there was less papparazi, internet and general media coverage to get inside looks at these athletes. Thats why david stern has to work overtime trying to make sure everyone has a clean image and doesnt cross any lines. This is kinda an advantage for mike becasue no one was focusing as much on when he was cheating on his wife or out gambling millions of dollars. But you do that today, and the media is gonna turn all that into a big story.

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JoeWolf1 It was easier for

JoeWolf1

It was easier for guards to win DPOY in the 80s.

DPOY
'83: Sidney Moncrief (Guard)
'84: Sidney Moncrief (Guard)
'85: Mark Eaton (Center)
'86: Alvin Robertson (Guard)
'87: Michael Cooper (Guard)
'88: Michael Jordan (Guard)

Ever since then, the committee that discusses the DPOY started looking at rebounds and blocks more closely rather than on ball defense and steals.. hence, only 1 guard/forward (Ron Artest) winning a DPOY Award in the last 22 years.

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MJ best player

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

When u look at the stats Jordan beats Kobe in every category except for threes and he was a much more efficient player than Kobe I think Kobe's one of the greatest players of all time but there's a reason Jordan is considered the g.o.a.t
Even Lebron has surpassed Kobe the last two years but Kobe's still one of the greats

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Hakeem Olajuwon averaged 2.1

Hakeem Olajuwon averaged 2.1 spg and 2.7 bpg in 1987-1988, Eaton averaged 4.1 blocks per game and Patrick Ewing averaged 3.0 blocks and 1.3 steals

The last 2 years Howard won it he averaged 2.8 and 2.9 blocks per game and 1.0 and .9 steals per game. It's not like no one was putting up those kind of numbers in 1987-1988.

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MJ>Kobe

MJ is the greatest. Not only did he utterly DOMINATE (much more so than Kobe) but he changed the game. Kobe has the killer instinct but MJ had the sociopath instinct. MJ was the most innovative player in modern NBA history and set up the foundation for Kobe's game to build on.

Kobe before MJ, who knows what would've happen...but Kobe's game is Jordan-inspired (who's isn't, really?)

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bullsfan121212
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ummm

you could hand check jordan. you cant hand check kobe.

llperez
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people over estimate how

people over estimate how effective the hand check rule was. You still werent allowed to grab or push a player, just put a hand on them. Hand checking is still allowed in all fiba games, and does that seem like it makes a huge deal? If you can not stay in front of a guy, putting one hand on them is not gonna mean a whole lot.

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You cant even compare Kobe to

You cant even compare Kobe to Michael. Michael was unbelievable. this video will show that there is absolutly no comparison. i hate the KObe and MJ comparisons. its NOT close

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8TA9iT_5vA

bullsfan121212
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kobe

shot 41 % in his first five nba finals. its pathetic. shaq carried them for the first three rings and his horrible percentage lost them the last two series

bullsfan121212
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tim duncan

has a better career than kobe bryant right now. duncan has one more finals mvp, reg season mvp, first team nba, and three more second team defenses.

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bullsfan, shaq was in his

bullsfan, shaq was in his prime and kobe was 21 and 22 years old those first 2 finals appearances. Kobe did his part despite the fg%. And by the time he was in his 3rd finals at 23 yearsd old and for the first time regarded as the best wing player in the game, he shot 51% from the field and and 55% from three. If you are gonna talk about kobe's finals shooting and how shaq carried him, why do you add the 2008 finals hen he shot terribel? SHouldnt you just focus on the 4 finals they played together, of course that would mean his fg% would go up a little and that hurts your argument somewhat.

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mj and kobe

There will be many who compare kobe to jordan and say that he is on his level. However, I do not agree with the comparison fully. I won't resort to stats, but Michael Jordan changed the way the game was played. He set a standard/bar that many will never reach. His offensive skills were just mind blowing. His defensive skills are mentioned, but did anyone really watch how tough and skilled he was on that end? I mean it was incredible.... Another thing, when it was all on the line, Jordan found a way to get it done. 6/6 don't lie.

Kobe is an outstanding scorer. An elite defender? I personally don't think so. I know many will argue that to death. Kobe has a better outside shooting game than Jordan, imo. Kobe has a similar mindset when it's all on the line. However, Kobe slipped in 2 finals, almost 3. Game 7, to me, was the worst finals game I've ever seen of Kobe's. Pau carried that game more than Kobe did. If you want to be in the same discussion as Jordan, you just can't have a games like that...especially a game 7. I certainly don't believe Kobe is on Jordan's level and might not achieve it.

Simple enough, Jordan never failed when it was on the line. He put it on his back and got it done.

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Who actually shoots their team into wins?

Michael Jordan is 72-57(56%) when having 30+ shot attempts Kobe is 46-61(37%).

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jordan was pretty bad in the

jordan was pretty bad in the 96 finals. He averaged 27 on 41% shooting and was awful in the game 6 close out shooting 5-19 and turning it over 5 times. But i cant blame him too much becasue payton was the only elite defender he played in the finals and that was a tough matchup.

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llperez

lol everyone has bad games but Jordan just had a level of consistency that no player not even Kobe could match its too bad he didn't play in the 1994 season and not much in the 1995 season I think he could have won at least one championship out of those seasons he missed

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i'm talking about

kobe first five finals appearances where he shot 41%. theres no one else who is considered one of the greats who shot anywhere near 41% in there first five final appearances. yes kobe won his first two finals mvps after that and shot good percentages. If it wasnt for shaq kobe would only have two rings. He isnt capable of taking his team to the finals and winning 6 times like jordan did.

efficient scoring is great scoring and kobe was the exact opposite of that. yes he did shoot 51% in one of those finals but still only averaged 41% in his first five finals.

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well, kobe would not have

well, kobe would not have those 3 rings without shaq. BUt did jordan win rings by himself? Did Duncan? DId Magic or Bird? Pippen was arguably the best wing defender in the game and rodman was argubaly the best pf defender in the game. Guys like paxson, kerr and kukoc all hit big shots and some game winners. Horace grant and BJ Armstorng were both all-stars at one point with the bulls.SO becasue kobe was the number 2 optino behind the best and most dominant player in the league, then we might as well throw those titles out? I mean, its not like kobe was standing in the corner rooting shaq on. He was doing his part. ANd kobe aint even done yet.

Im not even saying kobe is better then jordan. But when you keep bringing up things like kobe was carried, he was pathetic, he only has 2 rings as the man so therefore duncans career is better becasue he has 3 as the man, thats all just some seriously awful bias.

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I hate to bring this up again

I hate to bring this up again but thats what I was sayin with the lebron argument he has never had a pippen, shaq, gasol type player with him, with D Wade he now has a 2nd man to ease the pressure off him

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andxxx, i agree everyone has

andxxx, i agree everyone has bad games. I was refferring to gizzfan who said "you cant a game like that if you want to be compared to mike".

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i dont hate on lebron too

i dont hate on lebron too much. I do think kobe is better, but its close enough to warrant an argument. I just think there are elements of the game that doesnt show up in the box scores that kobe thrives at and lebron lacks. I mean, I actually watched game 7 of the finals just last night(nbatv replayed it) and despite the horrendous shooting from kobe, he was all over the place single handidly out rebounding the entire starting celtics frontcourt and keeping rondo in check like no one else did in the playoffs.

Lebron too often passes to teammates when they are not in great position to score. If you want to be in the kobe/mike discussion, you have to have that selfishness to want to take the shots. Lebron seemed to be pouting in the playoffs when his teammates missed shots. And that was with the game still up for grabs.

andxxx
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llperez

Im saying Kobe's a great player I think in the end most ppl will consider him 2nd all time only to Jordan not what I think but wht the public may think. People forget that Lebron had a triple double in gm6 vs the celtics with 19 rebounds. Lebron does try to take over but unfortunately his teammates won't bail him out nearly as much as Kobe's if he has a bad game.

Im excited to see what he can finally do with legitimate help behind him no excuses

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yea

no man wins it on his own. but jordan was undoubtably the best player on the best team 6 times. he has 6 finals mvp out of 6 and never played a finals game 7

tim duncan also has one more reg season mvp, first team nba, and three second team defenses besides having one more finals mvp. Duncan is the best PF of all time. The best at his position. No one calls kobe the best at his position of all time.

If they gave out hockey assist in the nba Duncan would be way up there. The way he demanded a double team in the post opened up so much for the spurs.

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yea

no man wins it on his own. but jordan was undoubtably the best player on the best team 6 times. he has 6 finals mvp out of 6 and never played a finals game 7

tim duncan also has one more reg season mvp, first team nba, and three second team defenses besides having one more finals mvp. Duncan is the best PF of all time. The best at his position. No one calls kobe the best at his position of all time.

If they gave out hockey assist in the nba Duncan would be way up there. The way he demanded a double team in the post opened up so much for the spurs.

bullsfan121212
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kobe

wasnt sitting in the corner when shaq carried his team to three titles. He was too busy hucking up shots and missing most of them even tho shaq was getting double teamed. Two out of the three finals they won kobe couldnt hit the water falling out of a boat.

and I still have Kobe rated 9 greatest player of all time. He is just not in jordans shadow

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duncan is hte best pf of all

duncan is hte best pf of all time, but considering most believe kobe is only behind jordan at sg, thats not exactly a bad thing. I put kobe's career ahead of duncans as i would assume the majority of basketball fans world wide. ESPN did a pole on who was the best player of the 2000's decade, and kobe won. Kobe had to go through a complete rebuilding process while in his prime. Duncan came to a team that was already a year in and year out 50 win team before him. He has never had to go through a rebuilding process.

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You keep bringing up kobes

You keep bringing up kobes poor shooting. The 2000 finlas, he was injured early in that series. He sat out half of game 2 and all of game 3 and then came back for game 4 despite a severly sprained ankle that he was limping on. He was 21 and playing on 1 wheel and still carried them to victory in ot of game 4 when he scored 8 points in ot with shaq not in the game. I wouldnt classify that series as bad. The only two bad finals series kobe has had was in 2008 and 2004. And those were great defensive teams that loaded up on him. His teammates didnt exactly make his job any easier in either of those series either.

andxxx
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His teammates didnt exactly make his job any easier in either of

Isnt that what Ive been sayin for Lebron so many times?

llperez
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yeah, but lebron does not

yeah, but lebron does not always seem to know how to utilize his teammates. He has the ball so much and guys dont know what they should do. Lebron standing at the top with the court spread for him to do what he wants is great for stats but not so much for winning and getting the best out of your teammates. Lebron could really help his teammates out more if he added a post game to draw double teams.

Zeke33
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did i seriously just read

did i seriously just read that BJ Armstrong was an allstar??? haha wow wtf. Horace was solid but by no means an allstar

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actually the sentence was

actually the sentence was "horace grant and bj armstrong were both all-stars at one point with the bulls". WHy do you say Wow wtf? You do realize they both played in the all-star game right?

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before

kobe won two in a row there was talk about can kobe do it without shaq. no one thought kobe was better than shaq when kobe lost two finals in a row. Kobe wasnt getting it done. He shot bad Fg % against the pistons and celtics. People werent talking about him being the second best.

he finally wins two in a row and he is king now????

Your are never as good as they say you are when you win. Your are never as bad as they say you are when you lose.

Lou Holtz

Thats the truth

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actually almost everyone

actually almost everyone without bias agreed kobe was the best player in the game even when they were losing in the first round.

billyk
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Because you are athletic

Because you are athletic DOESNT mean you are a good DEFENDER....

STEVEDOT2
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the rules have changed so

the rules have changed so much in todays game the players are better thanks to the many camps and at the end of his career kobe will have better overall numbers then jordan. kobe dropped 81 in todays game thats damn near impossible with the level of talent in the nba.Ppl just talk about the handcheck rule what about the rules that change how you can dribble the ball todays double dribble wasnt the same as back thanks to iverson so maybe jordan was double dribbling to get atleast 8 of his points a game. Yes you talk about great gaurds who really was jordan playing? Todays nba is better then the past nba and deeper an kobe still dominates look at kobes post game both jordan and kobe has good fades but post moves ,sink and swim,foot jabs, never in the history of the nba has a gaurd been a better post player then kobe not to mention jordan was a litte more physically gifted then kobe hes stronger and more of an athlete in old age jordan jumping ability never lost a step untill late in his career where kobe isnt as explosive as he once was. not to mention the bulls had a better team then kobe so jordan could do more he had more help most his team is hall of fames.

ppl that never seen jordan play say jordan is the greatest i just dont see how when you never seen him play/

as said earlier

It was easier for guards to win DPOY in the 80s.

DPOY
'83: Sidney Moncrief (Guard)
'84: Sidney Moncrief (Guard)
'85: Mark Eaton (Center)
'86: Alvin Robertson (Guard)
'87: Michael Cooper (Guard)
'88: Michael Jordan (Guard)

STEVEDOT2
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bulls fan

there wasnt as many tv/radio personalitys now as it was when jordan played or the same talk would be about jordan being the greatest over jerrry west the nba logo and you are a jordan fan rite from the gate your name is BULLS FAN now im a fan of the game and a kobe fan not because everyone likes him its because he so polished a gaurd that can play every postion but height limits him at center in pf but he played a litte center in high school. you cant take away his all around game if you pull up jordan career totals and kobes career totals. kobe is on jordans tail give him some more years facts never lie

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jordan was the face of the

jordan was the face of the nba for a long time. why not give him mvp thats what the fans want he brings the money. How many times have we seen players get cheated out of the mvp? Dont think for a second the jordan was the best player every time he won the mvp. the name of jordan alone is a brand and the nba knew how to market him giving him the tilte the best raised teh stock of his brand and vaule to the nba. Think before you speak

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you do realize that BJ

you do realize that BJ armstrong was actually NOT selected to the allstar game right? He was a replacement for Alonzo Mourning because he was injured. He has never averaged more than 15 ppg and he has never averaged more than 4.9 assist per game. so please explain to me how those are allstar numbers?

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STEVEDOT, So Kobe takes his

STEVEDOT,

So Kobe takes his game to the post for one season and he is the best guard with post skills in NBA history? Jordan took his game to the post in the 1995-1996 season and had the best skill set in the post of any guard I've seen play. I love that Kobe followed Jordan's lead as a way to make up for his slight decline in athleticism and it will pay great divends for him, but Jordan was a much more skilled and more effective post player. Kobe could develop into a better post player, but MJ was better in the post if your comparing Kobe today.

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Players in the league today

Players in the league today lack fundamentals, they are treated like DIVAS, and most of all the dont play with the same grit and grind... The game has changed, but I dont think players are better more athletic but not better... Every year Jordan won MVP he was the BEST player in the league... Jordan pretty much shut down the NBA, he was an absolute MONSTER...

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Billy K, don't confuse play

Billy K, don't confuse play harder and player better. Also, the difference in contact is enormous, which makes comparing eras difficult.

But I'll say this. When you come in as a rookie, and Magic and Bird are saying this guy will be lightyears ahead of us, thats a pretty ringing endorsement. The mystique and aura of Jordan in inpenitrable. No one else should really be suggested to be able to match his social impact, because thats a disservice to the guy who did it. Besides, you compare prime v prime, the only think Kobe has on Jordan in three point consistency. Jordan was a better midrange shooter, post player, defender on and off the ball, a better rebounder, leader, and more clutch. He was the best. Kobe's close, but Jordan is just better.

I mean... He's Michael &$#%#&@! Jordan for Christ's sake!

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if kobe can play for atleast

if kobe can play for atleast 4 to 5 more years he will have better season totals then jordan..the game has changed jordan dominated then kobe does now its going to be something to argue for the ages.Dont be fooled kobe was nice in the post for a while now.

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The main pillar of my

The main pillar of my arguement is that Jordan was a far superior defender. In 4 or 5 years Jordan's defensive stats will still be much better. Kobe is evolving into a good post player, but I just don't think he is at Jordan's level, but he could get there, he is a hard worker and Kobe is much closer to MJ's level on offense than he is on defense.

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