I'm curious to see the reasons some say Blake is better or is a player you build around but love isn't. Why do i ask? Well because i know most people pick blake because he dunks alot but they both end up producing the same amount of points and love is the better rebounder. They get the same amount of assist and they both have wing options who score ( Gordan,Beasley). So I'm wondering if Blake wasn't a Highlight film would people still think he's better then Love. While blake does his work in more spectacular fashion the end result is very similar to Loves.
Id pick Blake because his post game is so good. He is very creative in the post. And personally I like to go to the post a lot. I like Love's rebounding game, but in the end the lack of a post game is what concerns me. Yes, Griffen needs to be a better free throw shooter, but with heart and determination that can improve. He has all that. Plus even the great 4's started out with a bad free throw percentage. Take Karl Malone for example.
Thats the thing Love has a very good post game. He's always been known to have post moves. He actually has better post moves then Blake. Very skilled down there. Love scores inside out
I agree there very similar in there production, but because of that I'd go Blake. Blake is so much more athletic he has a bunch of room to improve, with Kevin he isn't the greatest athlete so what he is now I think is what he'll be in 5 years, where in Blake he could be drastically better.
I think griffin and Love are very close right now... but Griffins ceiling is much higher. Once he starts to play more intense defense and make his FT he will be awesome. Love will never become a good defender... he lacks the lateral quickness and footspeed.
Yeah, I would pick Griffin. Love is better fundamentally, but Griffin has a huge upside. I wouldn't be surprised to see Love win a matchup between the two, but Griffin has insane potential.
Basically every one will pick Blake because he is more athletic. That's pretty much how the picks always go when deciding between to guys even if one of the guy produces more but is less athletic.
A interesting thing is Amare is prob the most athletic Power forward and worked hard but Duncan,Bosh,Gasol have been ranked ahead of him as far as PF rankings and the best defenders at each position (lebron is the exception) are never the most athletic for there position. Most of the time i wouldn't even put them as the top 5-10 athletes at there position. Deandre Jordan is quicker jumps higher and runs faster then bynum,lopez,hibbert,bogut yet isn't better then them after 3 years. Not saying I'd pick love over Blake or Blake over Love, just saying. Are the top players at each position also the top athletes at each position?
This isn't even a legit question to me.
No. Love's offensive production isn't the same. He shoots less than 44%. Griffin is over 51%. That's a big difference. While Love does attempt three-pointers, he still just doesn't finish well around the rim and isn't as efficient.
Teams are focusing their entire defenses on stopping Griffin. He's doubled and triple teamed, yet he's reading the doubles and making good plays. He has the makings of a championship caliber go-to option. Love does not.
And while neither player is very good at defense right now, Love is arguably the worst defensive four in basketball and doesn't look like he's ever going to be good. While Griffin will never be a great shot blocker and is still learning where to be, etc, it's not hard to see that he's going to be a solid defender.
Griffin is not just an athlete. The only people who think that are those who catch his highlights. I've watched every Clippers game and he's actually a very good basketball player.
When Griffin is a finished product, he'll be undefendable. You can't say that about Kevin Love.
Griffin is a rookie. For a guy making his first trip through the NBA, he has been great. That is the curve. He is not an All-Star, but for what he has done this early in his career it is encouraging. He needs work defensively, and I'm not sure Vinny is the guy to team him, but there is time for that. Love is in his third year and still doesn't work on that end. I like seeing progress in the abilities of a player, and there isn't progress. They redistributed numbers, not improve the team. Why was I down on Anthony Randolph? No growth from year one to year two. Good for a rookie is not the same as simply good. If you want to see how a star is supposed to grow, look at Derrick Rose. He has gotten better as each season went on, he developed his individual abilities in each summer, and now not only is he a freak athlete but can shoot and is fast becoming a respectable defensive player. Russell Westbrook isn't growing at quite the same rate, but he is significantly better than he was as a rookie.
I dont think anyone has ever said they think Blake is just a athlete. At least Ive never seen anyone say that. Love shots a lower percentage because he shoots more jumpers, that's usually the case with people who shot more jumpers. Love gets double teams as well and teams focus there defense on stopping him because other then Beasley they aren't worried about the other players going off on him
OK that's pretty much all i have. Was just trying to play devils advocate and was waiting for someone to mention a key thing. Love has been in the league for 3 years while this is Blakes first year playing. They may be the same age but experience is key especially year 2 in which Blake will most likely be even better then he is now
Also Love shooting 3's is bad as it limits his teams offensive rebounding numbers, I want my PF in the paint and Blake not shooting 3's is a good thing as he's in position for an offensive rebound.
I think Its Griffin but not because he is more athletic, The guy has a non stop motor and goes hard every possesion, u know u give 100% when your college coach said he played too hard at times thats y he gets injured. I also think Griffin will develope a game similar to Karl Malones, where he will be able to knock down jumpers consistently or drive to the rim with his quickness an dunk on u. Griffins athleticism is wut sets him apart from Love. As a defender Griffin will cover alot more ground an wouldnt be a defensive liability like Love could be in most matchups.
Everyone has made some really good points in this discussion.
Both Love and Griffin are great basketball players who get the job done, albeit in different ways. Neither of them are very good at defending, but that's really the only knock on either of their games. In the long run, I'd have to take Blake over Love only because he has the potential to get exponentially better than he is right now. With his skill level where it is right now, in his rookie season, this guy can be something special. Love, on the other hand, has a ceiling substantially lower than Griffin's, although he still is a great player in his own right. But like many of you said, they give you very similar stat-lines and production.
When it all comes down to it, I'm taking Blake. Minnesota is my team, I love them to death, but Griffin has that "it" factor that you can't really let go unnoticed.
If Griffin continues to play this way, he'll never play for two consecutive seasons, he'll get hurt a lot. I hope he doesn't, but I think that's pretty inevitable.
I don't see this issue with Love. Also I think Love has room to improve, maybe not close to as much as Griffin has, but I belive he can become a better shot blocker, better at creating his own shot and a better passer (he's a good at passer but he'll get even better). That being said I think Love's best season will be around
25ppg, 16.5 rpg, 3apg, 1 bpg.
Im not sure he'll do that, but he sure can.
That being said, I'd take Griffin to lead my team, but if I already have a leader, I wouldn't hesitate and would take Love to do all the dirty work and be productive.
not sure why Griffin doesn't wear elbow and knee pads, I mean that's really the only blemish he has is he plays to hards sometimes.
25&16.5 for the season???? Love would probably be one of the best PF ever.
He is doing a 20 and 15 right now, shooting a bad percentage and playing 34 mins per game.
He won't be doing that on a good team and his blocks and steals will be pretty small (around 1 and 0.5). I do believe he can achieve that once.
Defense is probably what will put him away from greats such as Tim Duncan, Tim Duncan got 2.7 blocks and 0.8 steals in his best seasons and was way mobile on the defensive end.
This is still only a hypothetical season, Im not saying it will happen, it can happen. I do believe he's the best rebounder in the League since maybe Rodman.
Tim Ducan didn't even average 25 and 16.5 lol.
@delfam. I understand that you want your PF getting offensive rebounds which are harder when they are shooting threes. But you do realize that you just criticized Love about hurting his team's chances at getting offensive rebounds even though he currently leads the league in that area. Talk about holding a guy up to a tough standard. Do you think Love should be averaging 5 offensive rebounds a game? Six?
I agree with most people that Griffin would still be the better pick over Love. But considering that Love is leading the NBA in rebounding (both offensive and defensive) while still playing somewhat limited minutes, then I don't feel like you can go wrong with Love. If Love's upside is "limited" to being the best rebounder in the league (which he might be right now) while still being a go-to scorer (which he kind of is though his shooting percentage isn't great), well that really isn't much of a limitation. The stat line that Anton posted above (25ppg, 16.5 rpg, 3apg, 1 bpg) seems both doable and downright scary. Let's see how Griffin does once he has been around the league a few times and other defenders know his game better and have more tape to study on him. We are assuming improvement that might not happen once defenders know his game better.
in this case I wouldnt get so wrapped up into stats....Griffin is a power forward reminscent of Kemp. extremely strong down low. definitely not the shot blocker that Kemp was but probably better than Kemp was at the same age. once he gets a halfway decent jumper and at least moderate defense he will be a great player....and that would only be the beginning of his developement. Love reminds me of Webber in the fact that he will be very good, especially on a better team but not quite a HOF player.
Just looked it up, Love is averaging 4.8 O-Rebs per game. Next up is J. Noah at 4.1 per game. (Gratuitous side note, I ran into Noah on Saturday night at the Luxbar in Chicago after watching the Bulls beat the Rockets in overtime. That dude is way tall. Made me feel small standing next to him and I'm 6' 4".) Love is averaging 10.6 D-Rebs per game. Next up is D. Howard at 9.2. Also Love is second in the league in Efficiency Stat. Finally, he is scoring nearly 20 points per game. Stats can lie, but the guy is simply killing it this year. If he does this for the next five years, he goes into the Hall of Fame as the greatest rebounder since Rodman. Maybe I am getting ahead of myself here, but that might what we are talking about. Or maybe he is just doing this all on a bad team.
the Love machine
You do realize that Rodman is a FIVE time NBA champion and is one of the greatest defensive power forwards to ever play though, right?
I'm talking about two DPOY awards... Named to the All NBA Defensive Team eight times. He's not a Hall of Fame candidate just because of his rebounding.
Blake Griffin will eventually have knee problems from all that hopping around he does.
Kevin Love might eventually have knee issues due to that soggy midsection he's carrying around.
Yes, I know Rodman didn't go into HOF just for his rebounding. He got in there for (a) rebounding, (b) defense, and (c) being lucky enough to collect rings playing with Michael Jordan and (to a lesser extent) Isiah Thomas (yes he had a big role on those teams, but they were also just very very good teams with our without him). All did say that Love might be the best rebounder SINCE Rodman. Sure Love's defense is not and won't ever be close to Rodman's. But Love is a vastly better offensive player than Rodman meaning that he might be the better overall player. I think you have to agree that if Love leads the league in rebounds four or five times over, lets say a 10-year career and he averages around 20 points per game (basically what he is doing now), that will get him consistently into All-Star games and also into the HOF provided his teams have at least some success.
I didn't say Love was like Rodman, I said Love rebounded like Rodman, Love isn't that good of a defender at all, that is what doesn't make him great.
I believe he would be great for a great playoff team with a real leader, he's a great complimentary piece, on a good team he'll never have the numbers I listed above but will probably be of most use.
He's not a team leader and he lacks on the defensive end, that's what puts him away from the greats, however I believe a 25-16 season is achievable for him in Minny
BTW, wait, Rodman isn't in the HOF yet
Good pt Bdoody, Griffin has a higher ceiling. also he's younger so most would take Griffin.
Your right the athleticsm and high flying dunks go a long way with most taking the highlight players. Love wasn't anywher near this good last season he was a nice player averaging 14 pts, 11 rebs. Love is a much better free throw shooter, he's a better rebounder and he has 3 pt range. Once again a guy blows up in this 3rd year its happening for Derrick Rose, Westbrook, same with Durant last year now Love. Griffin is only 21 games into his NBA career. Both should put up huge numers esp. this year since their on terrible teams.
once he gets on playoff team his scoring won't be close to 20 (not even talking about 25for sure) and his 15 rebounds is so so nice i first of all it's still a question if he can finish season with that avg and i don't know if he can even increase it next to like let's say they would draft Enes Kanter.
I'll agree that Kevin Love is better than Blake Griffin right now, the thing is this is Blake Griffin's rookie season, and if he continues to improve it's scary to think how good he can become.
Love basically was doing 14 and 11 in 28 minutes per game. Now he is doing 19 and 15 in 34 minutes per game. On a per minute basis that is not that much better. Basically he has been a rebounding beast since he came into the league (9 per game but in only 24 minutes during his rookie year). So this is mainly that he is getting more minutes and only somewhat that he is becoming a better player.
He requires a double team. Love is a great rebounder who can hit the 3. Does not require a double team on the block. Blake is a rookie Love has been around. What will Blake look like in year 3.
Alot of great, great points in this conversation.
But talking about kevin love and the hall of fame isnt one of them. Look at his winning % in his career. Derrick Rose and Westbrook are the standouts from the 08 class and even talking about them and the hall would be absurd. And there teams are winning games.
"What will Blake look like in year 3."
Assuming he stays healthy, that's scary to think about.
I would go with Griffin too based on his ceiling. He is already this good as a rookie and he will improve more over time but what I'm worried about would be can he stay healthy because they when jumps is scary when he lands. He can get hurt with the dunks just like what happen in preseason last year.
I get that it is really too early to talk about Hall. But seriously, if you lead the league in rebounding for a bunch of years (which Love hasn't done but I think he has lead the league on a per48 minute basis now for three years in a row) and you can score, then you should make the Hall. It isn't like it is that hard to make the HOF in Basketball (much harder to make it in Baseball, but that is another discussion). But yes you have to win some games as well and Minnesota isn't doing that anytime soon.
Rodman was averaging 17-20 boards for a solid 7-8 year run. Plus he was the best defensive big man since Russell. He isnt in the Hall.
It's disrespectful to talk about Love being in the Hall of Fame right now lol.
Its more than direspectful...its ridiculous lol. The guy hasnt even been an all star yet. Hasnt even won 25 games in a season yet...I mean come on.
Rodman's rebounding was great, but he didn't do 17 to 20 for 7 - 8 years. He did 17 to 18 for the 92, 93, and 94 season. I think he also lead the league in rebounds in 94 through 98, but that was more at the 14 to 16 boards per game level. Which is a number that Love could easily hit if he kept doing what he is doing and got 38 minutes per game. But all that said, those numbers and great great defense would be enough to get Rodman into the Hall as far as I'm concerned. I suspect that it is mainly due to his personality issues that he hasn't been voted in yet. But there is also the issue of him not having any ability to take over the scoring load for a team. That is an issue.
Dude...you are a talking about a THIRD YEAR PLAYER who has NEVER WON 25 GAMES. No Hall talk, please.
Okay. You guys are right. This is way to early. I stand corrected. Maybe the 31 - 31 game has gotten everyone too excited. Maybe it is that he has averaged 24 and 19 over the last six games. He is back at MSG tonight, right? Let's see how he does against the Knicks again. No Hall talk. But we can talk about him being possibly the best rebounder in the league right now. Certainly only D. Howard or J. Noah can challenge Love on that front.
Athletic ability is always a factor with people on here. every single guys thats athletic people say " he has great potential and will eventually be so much butter" for those that don't they say " he's close to his ceiling and wont get much better.
Amare came into the league more athletic then Gasol yet with all that athletic ability Gasol is the better power forward. people over hype athletic ability but under appreciate skill on here. Love does have the potential to get alot better just like blake. He can become a better shooter and a better defender then he is now. Just like Blake he is not done growing as a player
Well i think blake has the higher ceiling. I think in 4 years blake will be better. But in 10 years Love will be the better player. Blake scores thanks to his jumping really high and running really fast. But the thing you should ask is will his body hold up? And will he still be amazing when he loses a step? The way Love plays makes it much more likely that his body will hold up. And seeing as he uses skill and not just athletic ability i think in 10 years Love will be playing at a higher level. Because skill does not go away over time. Athletic ability does. So i guess what i am saying is that if you can only have him for 4 years take Blake. But if i needed a guy for 10+ years then i would take Love.
True but in those years Blake can gain skill like kobe,Jordan,The Dream,Karl Malone did.
Oh and i think everyone is forgetting that there the same age. It is not like Love is 27 and Blake is 19. There both 21
But Love has been int he NBA for 3 years. Thats big. 2years of NBA experience is very big. You get two players who are talented and one decides to spend 2 years in college and the other decides to spend two years in the NBA its more likely that the guy who has that NBA experience will be better at first
Can somebody please explain what makes Kevin Love so much more skilled than Blake Griffin?
Better post moves and better range on his jumper is pretty much all love has over Blake on offense. Better at boxing out and going after rebounds. Other then that thats pretty much it