[cabbycabParticipant]

 Wow, Love is averaging 19 and 15….I havent seen rebounding numbers like that since Rodman or Kevin Willis.  

1.  Should he be an Allstar ?

2.  Who would you take:  Love or Joakim?

[JJeff6Participant]

Yes Love should be a definite all-star, hand down.  I dont care what his teams record is, anyone who can go out on any given night and get you 20 and 20 is an allstar. 

And thats a tough one, but ultimately, I think I would take Love.  Love is a better scoring threat than Noah, better rebounder (which is saying ALOT), but he isnt the defensive presance. 

Remember, Noah is only averaging about 8 and 8 for his career, and in close to the same amount of time, Love is averaging 13 and 10 in his career. 

Love to me, would be the better option

[JJeff6Participant]

Yes Love should be a definite all-star, hand down.  I dont care what his teams record is, anyone who can go out on any given night and get you 20 and 20 is an allstar. 

And thats a tough one, but ultimately, I think I would take Love.  Love is a better scoring threat than Noah, better rebounder (which is saying ALOT), but he isnt the defensive presance. 

Remember, Noah is only averaging about 8 and 8 for his career, and in close to the same amount of time, Love is averaging 13 and 10 in his career. 

Love to me, would be the better option

[JJeff6Participant]

not to mention love at least can shoot a jumper without everyone in the crowd laughing at his form haha

[JJeff6Participant]

not to mention love at least can shoot a jumper without everyone in the crowd laughing at his form haha

[cabbycabParticipant]

 Love is shooting 89% from the stripe and grabbing 5 offensive rebounds per.   Dang……

[cabbycabParticipant]

 Love is shooting 89% from the stripe and grabbing 5 offensive rebounds per.   Dang……

[JJeff6Participant]

yeah and i think Noah is shooting 73% from the line and has 4 offensive rebounds per game.  Still very good but I think Love beats him out. and the lowest amount of rebounds love has had in a game all year is 6, but he still scored 20 in that game…

[JJeff6Participant]

yeah and i think Noah is shooting 73% from the line and has 4 offensive rebounds per game.  Still very good but I think Love beats him out. and the lowest amount of rebounds love has had in a game all year is 6, but he still scored 20 in that game…

[NBAexpert82Participant]

 Since when have the only stats that mattered been free throw percentage and offensive rebounds been the only stats mattered!  

[NBAexpert82Participant]

 Since when have the only stats that mattered been free throw percentage and offensive rebounds been the only stats mattered!  

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Waiting for Bothteamsplayhard rebuttal of this one..lol

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

I think it depends on who you have on your roster.

If you have a weak defensive center playing alongside Love, that would be the weakest frontcourt in the L, defensively.

But if you already have somebody with good heart, energy, and a good defensive big, then you gotta go with Love.

 

i.e.

If I have Bargnani, I’m taking Noah

If I have Chandler/Dalembert, I’m taking Love.

[Raef LaFrentzParticipant]

@QUINCEY

So it’s not just me who thinks BTPH just hates everything about basketball? Why does he post if he hates the NBA so much? Haha.

[Raef LaFrentzParticipant]

You said it, bro. Pretty darn annoying.

[JJeff6Participant]

Yeah everything he posts is negative. someone could drop 70 on any given night and hed be like, "oh yeah great game and all, but he did have that one bad turnover with 6:41 left in the 2nd quarter that cost his team 3 points.."

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

I doubt Love makes the All Star team..Unless there’s an injury replacement and David Stern has to name a sub…Coaches who name the reserves will look at  the T-Wolves record..And say there are more deserving guys  from winning teams like Duncan,David West & Lamar Odom..

But i said before the season Love will lead the league in rebounding….Becuz he knows where to position himself when the ball comes off the rim…and has that wide body that he uses to block out guys..

[Cardinal_FanParticipant]

 Give me Noah, yes he has a ugly jumper but its respectable, he rebounds just as well, defends better, more athletic and is 2 to 3inches taller (6’11, 7’0). A slightly above average 5 man i think is harder 2 find in this league. And when Boozer finds his rhythm it will only make Noah better. Love looks great putting up good numbers on a bad team, but Noah has a defined role on a playoff team and excels at it.

[jaysmith1987Participant]

Kevin Love has to be an all star because the numbers he’s putting up this year are ridiculos.  I would take Joakim Noah though because as mentioned earlier he is a better defender and still he is an above average rebounder and he hustles and has devloped a respectable offense game.  Kevin Love gives you huge rebounding numbers but against the elite competition the opposing player is gonna get there points. These are to really good players though.

[JJeff6Participant]

hes also got 13 boards and 20 pts tonight at the half…just sayin 🙂

[JJeff6Participant]

28 and 19 with 2 min left in 3rd quarter.  but ohhh noo hes def not an all star 🙂

[apb540Participant]

The dude is getting absolutely dirty.  He has been one of the best fantasy players I have ever had so far. 

[RafterParticipant]

I think the coaches will pick him, he deserves it in my opinion.

19.4ppg 15.3rpg 38%3PT and 89%FT

Just unreal stats, if he was on a playoff team, he’d still be a double-double machine, someone that averages those type of stats should make the allstar game regardless of the team’s record.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"Waiting for Bothteamsplayhard rebuttal of this one..lol"

I’m done taking the bait on the value of players who are 41-120 for their career, and praised for their current development on a team that is 5-15. When Kevin Love converts to Islam, his name is going to be Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

"Yeah everything he posts is negative."

Not about the Lakers, Jazz, Spurs, Mavs, Celtics, Heat, Magic, Melo, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, and all things good about the NBA. Am I down on the dregs of the league and the stat padders who don’t win? Yes.

[Ghost01Participant]

I agree with bothteamsplayedhard.

Love and Beasely are getting "hyped" for putting up numbers on an aweful team. The same reason i thought Tyreke winning the ROY was a joke, it is so easy to put up numbers on aweful teams.

I cant wait til OJ Mayo gets traded to Toronto and starting putting up 28 a game. "MAYO FINALLY PRODUCING!?!?!?!!?"

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 The fact we are even asking if Love should be an All Star is ridiculous the dude is averaging 15 rebounds a game!!!!!!!! Even if he didn’t score one point all season he should be an All Star based on the fact he is averaging 15 rebounds and is showing not signs of slowing down because he would of probably finished with close to 25 boards last night had he played in the 4th quarter.  

I haven’t seen rebounding numbers like this since Rodman.  Not even Howard did this.  The only thing that comes close to taking a 10 minutes of Reggie Evans floor time and multiplying it by 4.

[JJeff6Participant]

Hes still outrebounding every single player in the NBA and his rebounding rate right now is the highest we’ve sen in this new millenium.  Scoring I will admit kinda depends on the team you on, as far as touches, and scoring opportunities, but I seriously think Kevin Love deserves all star berth for what he has done. 

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

love should be an all star

and yes i rather have him over noah, hes simply just a better player

[Ghost01Participant]

Love is better than Noah? Maybe at 3 point shooting, thats about it. Rebounding next to Gibson and now Boozer, on the team that lead the NBA in rebounding last year is alittle bit harder than rebounding with Beasely, Darko, and Wes Johnson.

[JJeff6Participant]

Well, sorry to say but, hes only had to rebound next to boozer in 3 games this year.  And in 2 of those games, Boozer grabbed only 2 rebounds and was out on the court for les than 25 minutes.  And Taj Gibson is not gonna take away 3 rebounds a game from Noah.  Sorry, Love is the better rebound and scorer and shooter.  Period.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

I just wanted to take this time also to point out that Michael Beasley is not a bust like I have been saying is averaging over 21 points and is still only 21 I believe.  Beastley could max out at around 27 points a game by the looks of it. Not only that he is playing like a true small forward this year in the mold of Melo.  If Mike didn’t play alongside Love he would probably be averaging around 8 rebounds a game too.  So i think Beasley will reach that 25 n 8 pace that we all thought he was capable of coming into the league.  

Not only that, despite early questions about their chemistry, Love and Beasley seem like a perfect fit too playing alongside each other.  Love cleans up all of Mikes misses and grabs the D boards and can throw the outlet pass to Mike at the other end for the finish.  Even Darko is playing very well.  If you take away his first month Darko is putting up great numbers for a center who was almost out the league and he is leading the L in blocks.

Minny is one stud SG away from becoming a threatening team.  If I’m Rubio I actually want to come to Minny now.  Kahn’s plan actually looks like its coming together..  Imagine this starting 5 next year and my projections.

PG: Ricky Rubio- The most anticipated foreign export coming into the league possibly ever.  Still only 20 years old with the proffesional experience of somebody in their late 20’s.  Do not be mislead by his Euro numbers because it’s not hard to tell that Rubio is still one of the best pure passers in the world.  When he get’s in the league he will have the ball in his hands more and be able to control the tempo of the game.   My Rookie year projections for him next year playing with Beasley, Love, and Wes is 11 PPG, 8 APG, and 2 SPG.  Not bad for a rookie PG who will come in and immediatley be the leader of the team on the court.

SG: ???? This is the position that Minny needs to upgrade.  Webster and Brewer are both good cogs, but would be better cogs on established good teams.  Minny needs a stud at this position.  Wes Johnson could be that guy because of his athleticism and shooting ability.  With Ricky on the team all Wes would have to do his hit outside shots to space the floor for Ricky and Mike.  But i’m not sure if Wes got the perimeter skills to play 2guard full time.

Potential acquisitions: Ben Gordon, OJ Mayo, Rudy Fernandez (Who Minny really wanted for Rubio), Iguadola (provides defense and would be the veteran glue guy on a young team.

Draft: Jordan Hamilton (perfect fit), Harrison Barnes (Rubio would get him easy baskets, and he’s the perfect type player to come in and just mesh well with Mike and Love because him being unselfish would be an asset in this situation and Barnes would just focus on hitting jumpers, and making nice passes.  Alec Burks (his versatility is similar to Corey Brewer only Burks is a pure scorer with the potential to be much more.)

SF: Mike Be Easy- Has officially become the stud scoring machine we knew he could become.  Just needs to get his consitstency down but that will come with more maturity.  Next year look for Mike to up his averages to 25 PPG (depending on who they get at SG)  Mike’s naturally position is with out a doubt small forward who can start at PF in spots.  

PF: Kevin everybody Love s:  Super skill with an insanse motor.  Imagine how many easy baskets Rubio would get this guy.  Love’s numbers should improve to 21 points and 14 or 15 rebounds next year.

C:  Darko- this guy has turned into the perfect center of our error.  He is a defensive presence and a shot blocking force.  And on offense because of his uncanny passing abilities he has turned into a great facilitator for Minny’s scorers and don’t get it twisted you can Iso Darko on the block and watch his school a defender.  Now in a great position Darko will come back with even more confidence and I could see him averaging 12 PPG, 8 RPG, 4 APG and 3 BPG next year.  Is Darko even 25 yet?  

Minny’s future looks bright. Honestly I still don’t think Flynn, or Wes Johnson fit into it tho.  And Brewer probably won’t stay around.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

First off what I am going to tell you right now is going to end this discussion. First off Urbanoverything go tell a farmer that and see what happens (just kiddin bud my actually artists and former graffiti name is ERBN, I’m from philly and love everything Urban neways….)

Love is getting 15 rebounds a game in only 34 minutes Noah plays close to 40.  And Taj Gibson who?  Beasley averaged 8 rebounds last year and Darko is a good rebounder too.  Not to mention Brewer and Johnson are both great rebounders for a wing player it’s just that Wes can’t get rebounds playing with Love nobody can he is an animal. What did it say on Wes’ scouting report who should be an instant impact rebounding if nothing his rookie year? 3 rebounds later he only got Love to blaim.  

@BothTeamsPlayedHard I know you’re smarter then that, but comparing Love to Rahim is just bad.  Rahim was a combo forward who could never even dream of putting up 15 RPG let alone have a 31 and 31 performance…I’m sorry dude but them two guys couldn’t play any more differently.  Beasley would be a better comparison to Shareef then Love.  That was just bad dude on every level…I almost feel like to owe us Love fans an apology.

But down to the meat and potatoes.  Love is not competing with his teamates but the other teams for rebounds.  So with that said Love plays in one of the hardest divisions in the league. 

Let’s look at Love last five games against San Antonio twice, Dallas, and then Golden State and the Cavs two bubble playoff teams.  So in them five games Love had to compete against Duncan, Blair, and Splitter twice, Dirk, Hayward and Chandler on Dallas.  And even Lee and Bindrins on GS.  So with all that competition in a 5 games span what does Love do?  Well in 40 minutes he put up 24 PPG, 19 RPG, 3 APG.  If that don’t drop your jaw you must be in disbelief.  Read them numbers again against the competition he did it against and you can possibly say you’re not impressed.  Name a player in the league who can stop Love from getting his?  Kahn’s and Minny’s roster trouble are well documented who expected them to make the playoffs this year?  Their starting PG has been hurt, and they still don’t have a shooting guard.  If Love and Beasley were like 25 it would be a different story.  But neither Love or Beasley are over 22 so these growing pains are expected and they are just scratching the surface of their potential. 

And what about Love’s 23 point and 24 rebound performane against Pau Gasol, Odom and the defending champion Lakers.  Or Loves 31-31 performance against MVP candidate Amare Stoudemire.  Or the 24 Points and 14 rebounds against Blake Griffin or the 22 and 17 he put up against ATL and Horford and Josh Smith.

Just watch the games, check the stats, do what ever. Love is the real deal and has put up 20 n 20 against the Spurs and Lakers….that says everything. The hate end here.

[JJeff6Participant]

amen Mr. 19134.

[HaleParticipant]

Kevin Love is getting way too hyped up on this forum. Yes, he is having a great season and is a tremendous rebounder. But seriously, stop talking about him. He shoots 43% as a PF, which sucks. He is one of the worst defenders in the NBA if not the worst at his position. He really needs to be a third option on a good team, not a first on a terrible one. Obsess over someone else now please.

[JJeff6Participant]

youre telling me hes a worse defender than amare? i actually laughed that one. 

[HaleParticipant]

One of the worst defenders in the NBA, one of the worst at his position, maybe the worst.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Thats just funny. I guess when memphis wasn’t winning Paul gasol just wasn’t that good huh

Kobe wasn’t that good when the Lakers didn’t make the playoffs

When Chicago didn’t make the playoffs Jordan wasn’t that good.

A good player is good regardless if he’s on a good team or bad team.

You think NBA teams look at a college player on a bad team and say "We ‘won’t draft him because his team isn’t winning"

Should Al Hortford won rookie of the year over Kevin Durant?

[JJeff6Participant]

Its not his fault that he got drafted to a sh!tty team.  Actually, it means he was valuable enough come draft time that a bad lotto team needed him and drafted him high (remember drafted by grizz and swapped to min for mayo).  If anything Kevin love should be applauded for what hes done, cuz hes only making himself better, he doesnt have a nash or a deron to make it easy for him.

[apb540Participant]

Just read Mr 19134’s last post cuz it basically says everything that needs to be said.   

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

MR. 19134 was on point with that one and i agree but on the flip side someone could say is that different from lets say hofstra playing vs duke and one of the hoftra players dropping 30 on them or last year  when a kid from south carolina dropped 32 on John wall and the kentucky wildcats. Does that mean those guys are better then say Kyrie Irving or John wall

 

Just playing both side’s of the field here to see different responses

[Ghost01Participant]

Saying that a Beasely/Love/Darko/Wes Johnson/Rubio nucleus is going to lead Minnesota to the promise land some day is the most laughable thing about this conversation. This team is among the worst in the league. How much better are Beasely or Love going to get? If they are THAT good, why arent they beating anybody? 

[Ghost01Participant]

"lets say hofstra playing vs duke and one of the hoftra players dropping 30 on them or last year when a kid from south carolina dropped 32 on John wall and the kentucky wildcats. Does that mean those guys are better then say Kyrie Irving or John wall"

 

My point exactly. Kevin Love is a good young player. However, acting like hes some messiah of rebounding isnt fair at all. Dennis Rodman won 5 rings. He helped his team win games. Ask Chris Bosh about what putting up #s while rotting awhile in the lottery does for you when you join a real team.

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Well, I don’t think that team has a championship caliber nucleus, but sometimes you have to just let players play together and develop. Look at Oklahoma city, they made a huge jump from Durant’s 2nd year to his third without making any really major changes I believe. They just let players mature and develop together. I think this would happen with the Wolves. I don’t think that nucleus would be competing for titles by any means, but I don’t think they would be the worst team in the league either.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Something funny is Some said the same thing about OKC

They were one of the worst teams in the league at one point remember

The same people are saying how good the CLIPPERS can be and they are just as bad as the Wolves right now yet people are saying they will one day get better and the Wolves are actually younger then they are. Seems there is a certain type of hate going on if both team are bad both or young both have 2 very good players yet one of them has a brighter future for what reason? Blake is a freak athletically but Love is still producing at the same level scoring wise and rebounding more

[Ghost01Participant]

I think Blake Griffin will be better than Love, yes. But, i definitely dont feel the Clippers are anywhere near a championship calibur roster. Eric Gordon is a NBA player, Aminu has some upside, and Bledsoe is okay. Thats it. Minny, to me has way too many question marks. They havent beaten a good team yet. and dont compare them to OKC. Durant and Westbrook ascended in there 2nd and 3rd years to levels we couldnt even have anticipated. Beasely and Love are in there 3rd years and this team isnt beating anyone. Not to mention they are a horrendous defensive team. HAve no depth what so ever. And to top it all off play in a division where they are going nowhere fast.

Portland, was actually winning 50 games when they had all these "potential stars" now look at them.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

The Wolves team’s top players are 4 years from prime years NO ONE knows what they are gonna be in there prime years so lets stop acting like we do. They are bad now which is expected, not too many teams that are the youngest in the NBA are gonna be good. Some of ya’ll act like NBA teams dont start from the bottom that they are magically just good now and if they are bad theres no way they can get better.  Im sure the team will make trades and sign free agents within that four years as well as letting Kevin Love and Beasley mature as players and get better

[Ghost01Participant]

4 years from being in there primes? it takes 7 years to get to your prime? It takes Darko 12 years to get to his prime? Come on man. This team seriously sucks. They arent good. They arent ever going to be good. Not in the West. You really think Beasely is going to drop 30 a night and Love is going to be 25-20? I still dont think they would make the playoffs. Worst PGs in the NBA. No bench. Equates to being bad.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

I’m not saying Blake wont be better then love but the only reason people are saying that is because Blake is more athletic and dunks more no other reason

Both put up about 20 a game

Love is the better shooter,rebounder

love is the better outlet guy

Both block the same amount of shots

Both are about the same age

Neither plays great defense

 

[Ghost01Participant]

I think people see more of an excitement factor from Blake. I agree that right now they are marginally similar, but Blake, being a rookie naturally is seen as someone who can vastly improve. Whereas Love looks more like a close to finished product. Dramatic steps forward in the NBA usually happen in your first 3-4 years, not 6-8.

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

 You also have to take into account that they suck so badly right now that they are probably going to get a really high pick in the draft, which will be very helpful. Lets say they get a top 3 pick and draft Irving(I really hope they don’t), maybe that would allow them to move Rubio to a place where he’d actually play and pick up a nice player.

Picking up Beasley was a great move, and moving Love for Mayo was too, but I do question their drafting as of late. I really don’t think Wesley Johnson is the answer, frankly I’m not sure he’s better than Martel Webster and they are the same age. They did get Johnson first though. I’m not sure that Johnny Flynn was a great pick, but he could be a very good back up point guard I think, so I guess that was an ok pick.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

What are you talking about?..You’re prime years start at 25.

 

And like i said NO ONE knows how good a young player or team is gonna be in 4 years. That’s not even debatable since no one on here including u can tell the future. you can say how bad they are gonna be in 4 years till you are blue in the face it still wont change the fact that you can’t predict the future. None of us can. what we can do is know about the here and now

[Ghost01Participant]

I think they are a classic case of a team that on paper seems like they shouldnt be too bad, but when they play against other NBA teams it not enough.

[Ghost01Participant]

Quincey, you are right, we cant predict the future.

Right now, they are 5-15.

So seeing as we cant see into the future, i feel safe with my assessment that they suck.

 

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

I like the picks as far as long term. They are either gonna be good players, good back ups, or good trade chips after watching them play so far. This was a three year plan according to the team and this is year one

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

What are you talking about?..You’re prime years start at 25. ( Depends on PT and when you come into the NBA)

 

I would take Love over Noah.

[Ghost01Participant]

Jonny Flynn is brutal.

Other than him, i agree. Wes Johnson is okay, Rubio is a valuable trade piece, and they ended up with 2 top 5 guys from the 08 draft that was very good.

I just dont think its enough in the western conference.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Everyone knows they suck right now just like every team that is trying to build and are the youngest team in the NBA. I dont think anyone is questioning that and no one expected thm to be good this or next year

[Ghost01Participant]

Ask D Wade about your prime starting at 25.

Acting as if there is a set age to a player’s prime is hilarious. Every player is different. In the case of Beasely and Love, i really dont see them getting that much better than they are now. Maybe statistically, but as far as being potentially the #1 and #2 guys on a contender, absolutely not.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

I agree any rookie point guard that puts up 15ppg and 5assist is just down right brutal

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Yea because once youre 22 you dont get much better. Blake and eric gordan prob wont get much better either. theres absolutly nothing that indicates they wont get better

And 25 is the age listed as prime because thats when youre body is at its best as far as physical performance

[Ghost01Participant]

I agree that anyone who gets sent to the D League is downright brutal.

 

You pay wayyyy too much attention to statistics. 13.5 and 4.4 isnt 15-5, sorry. He shot 41% from the field, had an A/T ratio of 1.5, was a horrible defender, and he was the starting point guard on a 15-67 team.

Yes, he was brutal.

[Ghost01Participant]

Quincey, again, what are you trying to prove? You cant predict the future, remember. Even if they get better, fine. Durant and Westbrook are going to keep getting better as well. If Everyone thats under 25 just keeps getting better, than the T Wolves will be in the same spot, last place. There are plenty of teams with young talent leading the way that are actually winning games.

[delfamParticipant]

Minnesota just has to many guys, they have a lot of young guys that have potential but not enough time for them. They really need to trade them for a vet or more draft picks. If Irving is available Rubio really needs to go for a legit C or SG.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Ask youre Doctor or anyone who works int he medical field about that one. Learned that while getting my Medical assistant degree

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Didnt every team get better  While OKC was getting better after Durants rookie year yet they made the playoffs last year?

[Ghost01Participant]

Fail…

[Ghost01Participant]

Yes Quincey they did. Clearly, Minnesota will mirror OKC next year and win 50 games. Thanks for predicting the future, even though we arent allowed to.

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

Ask youre Doctor or anyone who works int he medical field about that one. Learned that while getting my Medical assistant degree

You learned that NBA players prime is 25 while getting a med degree?

Didnt every team get better While OKC was getting better after Durants rookie year yet they made the playoffs last year?

So age/injuries wasn’t a factor in OKC making the playoffs?

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Didn’t other teams get better after Jordan’s rookie year yet they won titles

 

Bascially there’s no way a rookie can ever make the allstar team because as they get better so is other players right?

How did derrick rose and rondo make the allstar team when they didnt make it as rookies since everyone got better as they got better. All this according to youre logic that They wont become a better team because as they get better other players/teams will also get better

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

No that goes for All Humans and NBA players are human correct? so they would fit under that catagory

[Ghost01Participant]

Quincey, you have strayed way too far away from the point. You are suggesting that Minnesota is going to be a contender in 3-4 years. I hope you are right. But i disagree. Because they are aweful right now. And its not a bunch of rookies and 2nd year guys. Its 2 guys in there 3rd year. Even if these guys become stars (which, we have no way of knowing) they still dont have enough.

I am not disagreeing with you on anything you say, all ive said is i dont believe the T Wolves are going to be a contender with this nucleus. Sorry if you disagree, but thats just too bad.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Prime years physically for humans- Mid 20’s to early 30’s. 25 is mid 20’s correct so if you work hard on your skills and you’re at your best physically then chances are you are probably gonna be better then you were at 22

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

I think I even read somewhere that the actual prime for NBA players is between 27 and 31, because that’s when they still have most of their youthful athleticism, but have a developed skill set.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Did i say they are gonna be a contender?.. i dont recall saying that please show me where i said that. I said its foolish to think there is no chance that they are not gonna get better.

 

That is the point

Exactly what team stays with the exact same team 4 years later?..I can’t think of one can you? Teams build trade out players sign free agents and let there main players get older and better

[Ghost01Participant]

Quuincy your arguements are just a bunch of unrelated BS that you are pulling out your behind. I could careless what you learned in med school

Beasely and Love have won a combined about 30% of there games as NBA players. I dont see them being the cornerstones to any dynasties.

[Ghost01Participant]

Quincey…this is stuff i havent argued. All i have said was Minnesota wont be a contender. You are argueing with me over nothing…here

 

"

"lets say hofstra playing vs duke and one of the hoftra players dropping 30 on them or last year when a kid from south carolina dropped 32 on John wall and the kentucky wildcats. Does that mean those guys are better then say Kyrie Irving or John wall"

 

My point exactly. Kevin Love is a good young player. However, acting like hes some messiah of rebounding isnt fair at all. Dennis Rodman won 5 rings. He helped his team win games. Ask Chris Bosh about what putting up #s while rotting awhile in the lottery does for you when you join a real team.   "

 

I agreed with you, so you started argueing with me. Smart, really.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

How is it unrelated?..

We were talking about prime years right so how is saying what is the prime years for humans unrelated to what a players prime years are?

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

I said I’m playing both sides and the counter argument to that is thats college this is the NBA doesn’t say " hey you’re rebounding on a bad team so we are not gonna give you the rebounding title or have you in the history books as the best rebounder in the NBA for the 2010-2011 season. If the Twolves are never good and Love becomes the all time rebounding leader while putting up 20ppg the NBA  is not gonna say " No we wont put you in the history books or consider you one of the best rebounders of all time nor put you in the HOF because you are did it on a bad team"

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

AMEN QUINCEY…… damnnnnnnnnn

[Ghost01Participant]

". If the Twolves are never good and Love becomes the all time rebounding leader while putting up 20ppg "

LMAO. We cant predict the future, remember?

 

IRRELEVANT

[Ghost01Participant]

Human primes…lol. That has nothing to do with this. Kevin Love’s career winning percentage does, check that out.

Or maybe you can go back to your Jonny Flynn is a good player comment with his 41% and 15-67.

[Raef LaFrentzParticipant]

Flynn didn’t get demoted like Urbanovreverything is saying.

I’m a season ticket holder and never miss a home game. Flynn got assigned to Sioux Falls to get some playing time for his recovering hip injury. I’m glad you actually look into what you are talking about before posting garbage.

QUINCEY, thanks for being informed and knowing what you are talking about on this one.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Obviously that was IF love stayed at his current pace and IF the twolves were never good duh. No where in there did i say that it will happen. Good lord you cant be that slow. I now realize this point less. I should have listened to the other people on here who told me you could be clueless,  you can have this you win I’m out

 

"never argue with fools because people from a distance can’t tell who is who"

[HaleParticipant]

I never said Kevin love wasn’t good because his team isn’t. I said you guys need shut up about him. He would be better as a third option for a championship team then as a first option. Also he gets his own topic once a day, it’s annoying.

[JJeff6Participant]

Youve said that before Agent Uno.  If you dont like it, then dont read it. 

[JJeff6Participant]

And as to urbanovereverything, if you dont see kevin love as an elite player in this league who can rebound and score, and become a cornerstone on a good team, then obviously ur not watching the game.  the dude is a fundamental beast, hard worker, son of a coach, big man with a decent shot, has a 3 point stroke, dont hate on him because of his crappy team.  Its only an excuse to diss him for no reason.

[Raef LaFrentzParticipant]

Amen.

[Raef LaFrentzParticipant]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dedus0etYw

[HaleParticipant]

I thought some of your posts were directed to me not urbaneverything, which is why I restated my point. My bad.

[JJeff6Participant]

its all good man no worries.

[HaleParticipant]

Anyways, how have the Suns looked? I haven’t been able to watch more then one game yet, so I haven’t seen much of the new guys.

[JJeff6Participant]

Well, Hakim Warrick has fit in perfectly with the system, same Josh Childress (whose playing with a broken finger).  The major disapointment has been Hedo, he really hasnt been productive, and hes coming off the bench now.  Robins been injured so its kinda been a struggle.  They seeem to only look like a 7 or 8 seed at best as of right now.  J-rich is playing out of his mind though and Grant Hill looks like hes 26 again. 

[Ghost01Participant]

Yo…if hes a cornerstone of a title team, why is his winning % horrible? like bothteamsplayedhard said, you people make too big a deal of non factors in the NBA. When they T wolves start winning, Kevin Loves production will matter. Whether hes as great as you say he is, or not, its up to you to decide. But he wont be relevant until they are winners. Which they are not right now. So you can say whatever you want about your future…they arent winning.

 

MrMorrison. I know the Flynn D League situation. That doesnt matter when you consider 41% shooter, 1.5 A/T ratio, the starting PG on the worst team in the western conference, and the fact he cant guard. He is not a good basketball player. Anyone who watches basketball knows this. You picked him over 2 guards who are almost perennial all stars already, as well as guys such as Ty Lawson and Darren Collison who are substantially better than him.

You guys must have really had your mouth watering at Collison’s numbers last year, since you love guys who put up stats and end every game with an L.

[HaleParticipant]

Sounds like once we get healthy we should be alright. I loved how J-Rich played in the playoffs last year and it’s carrying over thankfully.

[JJeff6Participant]

Yeah if robin comes back strong then we should be doing much better with his presence.  An yeah J-rich def carried the suns vs portland and san antonio last year in the playoffs, but shooting almost 50% from 3 and hes leading the league in threes, thats impressive.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

They both may be putting up great numbers on bad teams, but there’s a difference between Blake Griffin and Kevin Love.

One is a future superstar who you build your team around… The other is just a key role player on a great team.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 So a player who averaged 20 and 15 is just a key role player?  I guarantee if Love got most of his point with monster dunks people would think different.

And UOE I said the Wolves were Ricky Rubio and a legit stud 2guard from being a dangerous team.

And what do you mean how much better are they going to get?  Mike Beasley isn’t even 22 yet and Kevin Love just turned 22.  Do you seriously think in 3 years they are going to be the same players.  The difference is they are going to be smarter to the league and more consistent.  By the time Love is 25 he should be averaging around 22 and 15.  And Beasley should be averaging atleast 25 points a game.  Mike is just starting to find his stride.  If you ever watched him play this year you would know that scoring comes easy to Beasley.  In 2 years he will be scoring 25 points a game consistently.  So what do we have from there?

We Got A Power Forward good for 21 PPG, 15 RPG, and a few assists.

We got a Small Forward good for 25 PPG, 7 RPG

Darko if still their Center will be good for: 12 PPG, 8RPG, 3 BPG and he will protect the rim like he does this year he is just starting to get more comfortable being an option in somebodies offense.

I am going to leave Jonny Flynn, Webster, Brewer, and Wes Johnson on the bench, and if that is their bench it;’s a pretty strong one, Flynn is the perfect back up PG.

Now Rubio is the X-Factor.  All he has to do when he comes over if get Love and Beasley easy baskets while stalking passing lanes.  Rubio could be like a European version of Rondo til his shot comes around.  And if anybody watched Rubio play its not hard to tell that he is going to thrive in the up and down pace of the nba instead of the slowed down swing the ball till everybody touches it style of Europe.

Now the Wolves just need that different maker at shooting guard.  OJ Mayo is somebody they should target.  If they could secure Harrison Barnes or Jordan Hamilton in this draft that would be perfect.  Or they could aim at getting Austin Rivers or Michael Gilchrist in 2012’s draft.  But there is no denying this lineup wouldn’t be dangerous next year.  These are my projected stats based on improvement and maturity and gaining comfortability in Rambis’ offense.

2011 starting 5 projections

Rubio- 12 PPG, 8 APG, 2 SPG (20 yrs old)

Michael Beasley- 24 PPG, 7 RPG (22 yrs old)

Kevin Love- 21 PPG, 15 RPG, 3 APG (23 yrs old)

Darko- 12 PPG, 8 RPG, 3 APG, 3BPG (25 yrs old)

Now they just need a legit starting 2 guard but even if it’s Wes Johnson then

Wes Johnson- 14 PPG, 5 RPG, 3 APG (23 yrd old)

And I didn’t even mention Jonny Flynn who can come in and score 14 PPG off the bench.

I didn’t even take into account who they are going to get with a top 5 draft pick.

How can you possibly say that as far as young developing teams go, the Wolves have a collection of talent that is extremely rare together at such a young age.  Beasley and Love are studs.  Rubio can be a stud.  Jonny Flynn and Wes Johnson at the very worse are going to be rock solid.  And Darko is the best rim protector in the league this year and has already had 3 straight 20 point games earlier this year 2 against the Lakers and Thunder.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Kevin Love wouldn’t be a 20 point guy on a great team. He wouldn’t be a go-to player on a great team.

He’d be more of a key role player. This Kevin Love hype is going way too far. He’s not a player you build your team around. He’s a guy you add. He’s not Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Howard, Dirk, Paul, Williams, Durant, etc. You don’t build your franchise around Kevin Love.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Key role players on good teams work on the defensive end. This was why Beasley was always losing time to journeymen in Miami and the Heat had no interest in keeping him when they decided to build through free agency.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

And Beasley still isn’t defending. He’s just on a terrible team and getting the shots he didn’t get in Miami. I guess that means he’s improved on this site.

[apb540Participant]

You are a &$#%#&@! idiot my friend.  Minny now = Awful.  Minny in 4 yrs = Possible contender.  Easy enuff. Quicey, I am sorry you had to spend a few hours of your life arguing with this boner. 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

And yet you think Love is magically going to start playing defense on a good team?

[apb540Participant]

Cmon man.  Beasley is a good scorer and a below avg defender, everyone who knows about the NBA knows this. Why keep bashing him and saying he is overrated on "this site"??   

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I haven’t bashed him.

I just think it’s funny that people are talking about him like he’s improved. He’s just getting more shots and minutes.

I don’t see any improvement in his game though. I look at him the same way now as I did when he came out of Kansas State. A tweener who’s good at scoring.

[apb540Participant]

Dude he definitley has improved.  You are overanylizing this situation.  The guy was awful his first few yrs trying to play without the ball in his hands (and was a wack-job) and now he has the opportunity to play to his strengths and is taking full advantage. I think that not only his game has improved, but also his situation and attitude which are just as important.

[Ghost01Participant]

Minny in 4 yrs = Possible contender

You are funny, my friend. read both teams played hard’s post.

Beasely, Love both of them could careless about defense. Thats the reason why they will put up numbers on teams that are going nowhere. A team with no point guard, and no true center is going to be a contender? how may i ask? because they have 2 forwards that put up stats?

[apb540Participant]

You are clearly just trying to argue. And I am not reading btph’s post cuz i don’t give a **** what he or anyone else wrote.  How can you say that love and beasley will still be the same on defense in 4 years??  They might just improve their defense in the next 3 offseasons, who knows. And y do u say that have no PG or true C??  If they get Rubio and he is legit and then draft Kanter, wallllla problem solved.

 You are just arguing to argue

[Ghost01Participant]

No, Im arguing because you are stupid. Just because a team has 2 guys who put up decent numbers, doesnt mean they are going to acquire a point guard, a center, make tremendous strides defensively and become contenders. That is just ridiculous. I respected Quincey’s opinion, because it made sense. Your argument is brainlessness at its finest. You are talking with about a guy with a .300 winning percentage and a guy who was almost kicked off his last team cuz he "couldnt handle being in the NBA". Sounds like a championship combination to me. When they draft Kyrie Irving, Austin Rivers, Andre Drummond and all of them become superstar players, then i will agree with you. Right now, they would need multiple things to happen for them to get any better. The Grizzlies were saying the same thing when Mayo was a rookie and Gay was having a good year "look out, this team is going to be amazing in 3 years" They havent improved at all.

[apb540Participant]

Oh so that’s y lol.  First off, I am in no way shape or form a T-Wolves fan so this is a strictly basketball convo, no bias.  With that said, IDC if the Wolves become contenders; it is the fact that they have a young nucleus with impending draft picks/foreign players who could give them a chance to contend.  Sure the Grizzlies had a similar outlook, but they haven’t done a good job of building a winner in the past few years, it happens.  I will NEVER sit here and say "Minny will be a contender in 4 years."  I am saying "Minny could be a contender in 4 years."  I just do not understand why you disagree with that.

[Ghost01Participant]

Anyone could be a contender in 4 years. trades/drafts/etc. I have a problem with the notion Minnesota has a leg up on anybody not named Cleveland, Toronto, or Philly.

[apb540Participant]

Well maybe you should of stated that. 

[HaleParticipant]

Beasley has improved. He shows signs of being a leader, and his defensive effort isn’t comparable to his time in Miami. I’m guessing you haven’t watched the Timberwolves very much.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I’ve watched a handfull of games.

I don’t see much improvement at that end of the floor.

He’s scoring more points, but that isn’t surprising anybody. People always thought he’d score a lot if on a bad team. The problem in Miami was that he wasn’t good at anything other than shooting. I still see that in Minnesota. He’s still a ball stopper and doesn’t see a shot he doesn’t like (1.6 assists).

The only difference I see in Minnesota is that he has the green light and isn’t being benched for playing poor defense.

[HaleParticipant]

Obviously he was going to score more, but his effort and intensity on the defensive end of the floor are much improved. I’m not claiming he’s an All Star or saying he’s gotten way better. In fact it’s debatable if his offense is better, but he is trying on the other end of the floor and that along with signs of leadership to me mean he has improved.

[Ghost01Participant]

Seriously, how many players could average 20 a game on Minnesota? Damn near every starter in the league.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

His on ball defense has been passable, but it’s off of the ball where you need to focus.

Where’s his focus and cocentration when playing the weakside? He turns his head frequently and gets beat with backdoors… He doesn’t know when to switch/stay with his man or show/recover… Beasley doesn’t know where he is on defense just like in Miami. You need to take a closer look. He hasn’t improved defensively.

And on top of that, Beasley still doesn’t like to box out for rebounds.

[apb540Participant]

I would LOVE for someone to average 20 a game on the Sixers.  I have not seen a single 20 ppg scorer on the Sixers since AI left in 2006-07 (iggy averaged 19.9 the nxt yr but F him, not 20 haha.) Give me Beasley any day if I need some scoring.

[apb540Participant]

Bobcats, Cavs, Pistons, Bucks, Nets, Hornets, Sixers, Blazers, Kings, and Wizards.

It is hard to score 20 ppg in the NBA 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Beasley is the Ben Gordon of forwards.

Can’t and won’t pass. Can’t really defend either forward position. Doesn’t rebound. Can give you 20 points though.

That’s why I think he’d be better as a scoring punch off of the bench.

[apb540Participant]

I agree that Beasley will be an awesome 6th man as he matures later in his career.  I think he is gonna try and become a go-to-guy first thou. 

[HaleParticipant]

That is true. I’m not one to watch weakside defense.

Anyways random question, are the Bulls-Thunder on TV?

[Ghost01Participant]

Uno- Its on the local Chicago Sports Network so I dont think its on anywhere else, except maybe NBA TV.

Boozer looking really solid…so is Nenard Krstic? hes had kind of a wtf half.

[HaleParticipant]

Who is winning the Rose-Westbrook battle? Looks pretty even from the box score.

[Ghost01Participant]

Quincey- true this. But im morely referring to Beasely than Love. Love has actually looked impressive whereas Beasely is just getting shots because the team sucks.

Uno- Neither Rose nor Westbrook has done anything to stand out to this point.

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Same can be said about every starter could average 20 a game on the clippers. both teams are just as bad. Both are the bottom of the bottom

 

edit- actually after further review the clippers are the worst team int he NBA record wise

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

He  looked impressive to you and a couple of people on here but he’s looked impressive to the majority of people every time they mention him on the sport shows. I’m not gonna even began to seriously say how easy it is to score 20 a game in the NBA on any team because every player i know says its hard to just average 15 especially on a bad team where teams focus there defense on you. A Lot easier to score when you have other good teammates and all you have to deal with is one on one. I remember Scottie pippen saying Jordan made the game so much easier for him then when he went to other teams because defenses focused on Jordan so much

[Ghost01Participant]

Nice 5 pt swing…Westbrook picked Rose at halfcourt but Rose hustled and contested the shot and westbrook choked the layup. Rose took it and pushed it to Deng for a corner 3.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Korver has been the star of this game so far.

Westbrook did pick Rose’s pocket just now… He missed the layup though.

 

[QUINCEY HODGES1]

Korvers jumper is like a video game. I rmember TRYING (key word) to check him int he summer league out here, needless to say it didnt turn out well on my end because his release is quick and if you get picked just a lil bit and fall even half a step behind you’re done

[BlueLacesParticipant]

Beasley is shooting 47% from the floor and is scoring 21.6 ppg in only 33 minutes a game, pretty solid numbers if you ask me regardless of what team he is on.  I’ve been to a few Wolves games and have watched every game that has been on tv, and the only knock I can say about Beasley is there are times where he is prone to make mental mistakes.  Whether that be turning the ball over, or losing his man in the corner and giving up a three.  All of those can be fixed in time. Once again, he is only 21 years old and still has a lot of maturing to do and I am hoping a lot of that will happen over the rest of this season. 

Also, lets not forget that the Wolves have given up some leads late in games.  They could have easily won games against SA (2), OKC, Charlotte, and ATL (you could also argue that had Darko not left tonight’s game against the Knicks, they could have pulled one out at MSG).  If that were the case, they would be a .500 team and all of you haters would probably have a different opinion on them.  The fact is, they are the youngest team in the league and these growing pains and losses are expected, but as a lifelong T-Wolves fan, I actually have a team that is fun to watch and cheer for, and that hasn’t happened since Garnett left.  It’s been tough being a Wolves fan over the years, that is why you guys probably hear so much about this team (Love and Beasley especially) and the upside they have.

Also, getting Flynn and Webster healthy is definately going to help put them in more positions to win ball games.  I can’t wait to see Webster as the first guy off the bench rather than Corey Brewer.

 

[Author]

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