Shelvin Mack, Malcolm Lee and Chris Singleton are in no way shape or form better prospects than Kenneth Faried.
Why? He did it this year. He was 5th in playoff rebounding average. He's going to get worse when most players hit their prime at 27 or 28?
I think saying that Kenneth Faried can't get a crucial offensive rebound or steal for a contender is equally short sighted. I just dont understand why you think he will keep getting worse. He continued to get better as his role kept being ask to be expanded. I don't know if you're implying he'll get hurt or burnt out, but a number of big time rebounders have had long careers.
Honeycutt and Malcom Lee, Shelvin Mack? You'd still take a guy who couldn't get regular minutes on the Kings over a guy who started for a playoff team?
I think I just don't have such a swing for the fences mentality when picking in the late lottery.
I know that there is no clear cut arguement when talking about hypotheticals like a re-draft. You can just express your side and have a debate. I don't understand where this "I'm right, you're wrong, case closed" sentiment is coming from. We don't know! I may be wrong, but it can't be proven May 21, 2012 and you can't prove May 21, 2012 that Shelvin Mack will have a better career than Kenneth Faried.
You and BTPH are good posters too, but the best we can do is state are arguements and come back to this thread in a year or two. There is no case closed your wrong, I'm right when talking about the future, the best you can do is state your case, and I think we've all done that pretty well. I'm not saying your wrong, I just don't agree.
"i don't think he is better suited off the bench."
when i wrote this i meant that i DO think he is better off the bench.
Lavoy Allen is the better offensive player but Faried has superior energy, rebounding, defense, and athleticism. I'll take that over having a jump shot. Could of had both though.
Legend and BTPH you guys seem to only value the ability to score and create your own shot. I wonder if you consider Tyson Chandler a role player because he can't create his own shot. Me, I consider him one of the best centers in the league.
Faried is a stud and he can help any team win either off the bench or starting. He just needs more minutes and a little more practice to give his team 16 and 12 on a consistent basis. But true he will only be good as long as he has his legs and he may not play into his 30's. But the nuggets now have a top ten PF at rookie scale wages for the next four years. It was a steal of a draft.
Why is Lavoy Allen the better offensive player when he scores less points and shoots a lower percentage than Faried? I didn't watch much of the Sixers games but I did watch Nuggets games and Faried just dunked on everyone. Teams really couldn't stop him they just hoped to contain him. Basically George Karl was the only guy to stop Faried by giving him less minutes.
And Faried had a good playoff going up against the best PF Center combo in the league.
Tallman, Allen is considered the better offensive player because of his smooth jumper and decent feet in the post. Faried can dunk 10x better than Allen, but he doesn't have much else offensively on him. Unless you count offensive rebounding.
36 year old KG would not be averaging 20 and 10 with Kenneth Faried covering him.
The D would just double and triple team the perimeter players, and I don't know if you can tell but Elton Brand is 10x's the defender Faried is at 35 years old
I don't think Tyson Chandler a role player in the way you put it, but he does play a role, the role of Defensive Center
Now he's one of the Top 5 C's because he does this job very well, he's a Center, he protects the paints and rebounds, and he plays real man to man defense very well of course 2012 DPOY award winner..
When drafting I do value players that can score and create their own shot while being Black Holes(this is huge factor between being a good scorer/play maker and a BALL HOG)
Because shooters will always be able to shoot, when Faried is 35 will he be out rebounding his opponents night in and night out??? Not at 6'7 240 lbs tops...Elton Brand was a 20 and 10 All Star and he's 6'9 250 and he can't out jump and out hustle guys every single night...Do you get where I'm coming from...
Steve Nash is going on 40 it seems and he can out Shoot/Score/Hustle/Out Smart most guards in the NBA, he was an under valued shooter/scorer/play maker because of his size/school and skin complexion, he's still the top PG in the free agent while into his twilight, are there many people tracking down 6'7 rebounders in their late 30's, HELL NO...
There is no way to prove Kenneth Faried will suck when he's older.
You can look at a lot of guys who rebound at a similar rate to Faried who are still very effective in their 30's.
Reggie Evans, for 1, a 32 year old 6'8'' power forward who actually has a shorter standing reach than Faried and was less athletic and not as strong when he was Faried's age. Evans rebounding rate for his career is about the same as Faried's for his rookie year and he's still out rebounding guys in his 30's. He's averaging 7.3 rebounds per game in the playoffs in under 20 minutes per game.
And Faried scores over 3 X the points Evans does in the same amount of minutes so he's not nearly as one dimensional as Evans. If he stays healthy, there is no reason to think he won't still be able to rebound. Rebounding is about desire, instinct and defensive positioning. If you're smart and can stay in front of guys under the basket they don't stand a chance and if they gamble they'll get called for an over the back foul. If Faried doesn't get dumber or get a serious injury I think he'll be fine in his 30's.
Yes Faried doesn't have much of an offensive repetoir but what he does well he does at an elite level. What he does is he gets you points (16 per 36 minutes) at a SICK FG% (59%). Name some NBA players who scores over 15 a game and shoots over 55% and who are not on the all star team. I genuinely don't think you will be able to. He also gets you rebounds at a very nice rate.
I also don't think it matters in drafting how a guy will play in his 30s. He could get injured and in any case he will be an unrestricted free agent well before he hits 30. Everyone will have a fare shot at the guy and the team will pay top dollar then. You draft for that five year rookie wage scale and the chance to extend as a restricted free agent. But that only gets you into the late 20's.
Look I agree that you need someone to create shots and Faried isn't that guy. But you only need two of those creators on the floor at anytime. Adding a third or fourth doesn't help that much on less they can play off the ball. The Nuggets have Lawson to create and most of the league has a pretty creative PG. A guy like Faried could fit in and help anywhere as he plays off the ball really well.
does any1 here really think that faried's stats per 36 mins are getting any better?
I asked if he was going to realisticly be able to out rebound/out jump/out hustle guys standing at 6'7 in his late 30's
Reggie Evans is in his early 30's and he an inch taller and was not drafted in the lottery and would not be drafted in the lottery if we had another RE: DRAFT... would he???
I never said Faried can't contribute on a team and that he absolutely couldn't do in for 10 to 15 years while being a 6'7 Pf/C with limited offensive skills and below elite level athletism
But players with a refined set of offensive skills and a High Basketball IQ and the ability to make the right play(pass/shot/rotational switches) are always going to be around winning Teams and systems because winning teams want shooters/ball handlers/play makers/skilled big men...6'7 Hustle guys grow on trees, just look at Quincy Acy who I think could be better than Faried if he ever applied himself on defense and rebounding because he dunks every thing inside, I compare Acy to Reggie Evans with the potential to be a better offensive because he wants to finish everything strong...he's a 2nd round or Un Drafted steal IMO
Acy won't be as good as Evans, never mind Faried. 6'7" hustle players who are actually productive in the NBA don't grow on trees. Acy is a solid college player, but is not remotely close to being the player Faried is. Faried averages more rebounds per game than Acy does despite playing in the NBA and averaging 8 fewer minutes per game. Faried also isn't quite the defensive liability Acy is, and Faried is a productive NBA offensive player as a rookie, while Acy has a long way to go to ever become as good offensively as Faried. Faried also is something else physically. Sure, he will lose some athleticism, but he will also gain skill. Few players peak as rookies. Faried played for Morehead State last year. He has little experience going against NBA competition and will only get better as he develops as a player.
I don't mean to offend, but your last post sounded very ignorant, Legendary Poster. There is a very slim chance Acy becomes even as good a player as Evans, who is one of the NBA's best rebounders.
Quincy is similar to Faried if you think two years of 7.5 rebounds a game is similar to Faried's three years in college of 13.5 rebounds per game is similar.
Farieds's per 36 numbers might never go up but they are already great. If he can maintain these and play starter minutes he will be a very good basketball player for the nuggets for a long time.
There is no reason to compare Faried to Evans. Wolf I'm not sure why you did. Just because of the height? Faried is much better than Evans ever was.
Great example: Legendary Poster. If the 2002 draft were redone today take a look at where Reggie Evans would go. Keep in mind, Kenneth Faried has already doubled Evan's greatest ppg average, keep in mind Faried has a lot more to offer going forward than Evans, and keep in mind despite being an inch taller, Faried has a higher standing reach, which is more relevant when equating size ( in basketball) than simply the top of one's head.
Jay Williams, Nikoloz Tskitshivili, DeJuan Wagner, Jared Jeffries, Melvin Ely, Marcus Haislip, Fred Jones, Bostajn Nachbar, Jiri Welsh, Juan Dixon, Curtis Borchardt, Ryan Humphrey, Kareem Rush, Qyntel Woods, Casey Jacobson, Frank Williams, Chris Jeffries and Dan Dickau are all 1st rounders that are no longer in the league or have made less of an impact over the corse of a career than Reggie Evans.
That leaves 10 first rounders that have had a bigger impact than Evans. The only 2nd rounders of note are Flip Murry, Carlos Boozer, Roger Mason, Matt Barnes and Luis Scolia. For a conservative estimate put all those guys, including Murray ( out of the league 2 years ago) and Mason ahead of Evans and he's sitting around 16. He was an undrafted free agent specialist who had a better career than everyone but 15 people in his draft class.
Faried has proven more offensively, has a higher ceiling, so why is it so absurd to think he won't have one of the 14th best careers in his draft?
Then again, Fred Jones could create his own shot.
Your last post made me laugh +1
I got into watching Nuggets games after the Melo trade because they had half the Knicks. That is how I became a Faried fan. Yes he is undersized and under skilled but he has a nose for the ball that even a hustle specialist like Evans (who does nothing but rebound) can't match. And Faried can do other things, the nuggets just don't need that because they have a lot of skilled players. I've seen Faried throw some nice passes, for example.
I think Faried would go in the top ten easy if we drafted again and really I think he would go around 5th.
And I admit Reggie has out worked alot of those player taken in the 1st round, was he more talented??? Maybe not but Reggie was a fighter, as a Sixers fan we enjoyed Reggie's effort and rebounding...
Still wouldn't draft him in the Lottery as you suggest we should do with Faried, I'm a huge Faried fan too, that's why I don't mean to sound like a hater, i just think Drafting guys like him in the Lottery or top ten like some GM's have done can get you Fired and your team back into the Lottery
I was very high on Faried coming out, I was a Sixers fans who thought Faried could impact the game ala Dennis Robinson, but when I saw that he wasn't a great defender and only rebounding the ball at a high rate I jumped on the Size/Skill Set bandwagon and accepted Vucevic as the pick...
I am saddened to hear you are a Sixer fan. Just don't understand how you can drink their kool-aid with this whole Vuc over Faried thing. Anyway, hopefully you are there at game 6 with me cheering like hell to not get eliminated.
"I'm just sayin'
36 year old KG would not be averaging 20 and 10 with Kenneth Faried covering him."
How about 13-8-8, 13-10-5, 16-7-3, 13-9-6, 23-17-6? Did the Laker frontcourt outplaying the Nuggets in the first round not happen in your world, or are you choosing to ignore it?
Exactly why I pointed out what KG we are talking about. Pau and Bynum are not old as hell. Plus thats two outstanding post players, not just one old one.
Are you saying that because Bynum (second best center in game) and Pau Gasol (perennial all star and top 5 PF over last ten years) outplayed the rookie Faried in four or five games of a seven game series (while Faried outplayed them in two or three games), that Faried shouldn't have been drafted in top ten?!? Man, you have some tough standards to meet. Seriously, you think Kyrie Irving would have fared well if he had a first round matchup with Westbrook, Rose or CP3? Faried played well in his fist taste of NBA playoff basketball against a great frontline.
No. I said my piecee as to why I think he isn't a top ten talent. I pointed out that he was outplayed in the playoffs because there was another poster who thinks that he would somehow better guard the skilled 7-foot All-Star that is Kevin Garnett better than he did the skilled 7-foot All-Star that is Pau Gasol.
If you think Faried is a top 10 Talent then where were you all last year when was mid to late 1st round pick around this time...Faried would be killed by any of the Talented Pf/C's in this league
And Apb, are you seriously saying the Sixers would be better off with faried guarding Kg then Elton Brand(a guy who can actually play both ends of the floor)...
The Sixers have the 15th pick in The Draft this year and can draft a Pf with way more potential than Faried (Sullinger, Jones III, Moultrie, Henson and Terrence Jones all have more potential than Faried and anyone of those guys could be available when we draft ...