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Kenneth Faried : Re-Draft

JoeWolf1
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Kenneth Faried : Re-Draft

Kenneth Faried was a guy that a lot of people had a feeling would be good at the next level, but due to his Mid-Major status, I feel many were weary of taking him too high. A player you love, but wonder if his blue collar style of play will be the same against pros as was against the opponents of Moorhead State.

Kenneth averaged a double double through 7 playoff games at a 10 point 10 rebound clip after averaging 10 points and 8 rebounds in only 23 minutes of play.

Per 36 mintues he averages 16.4 ppg 12.2 rpg 1.2 apg 1.2 spg 1.6 bpg and only 1.9 TO and 4 fouls. A pretty clear indicator as to what kind of potential he has as more mature player averaging over 30 mpg.

It's still early to bring up re-drafts considering a handfull of rookies haven't even gotten the chance to play regular minutes, but that being said...having the information and knowing the circumstances why everyone played or didn't play. Where would you draft Kenneth Faried?


Chilbert arenas
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Well the obvious choice to me

Well the obvious choice to me would be taking Faried over Donatas Moteijunas because I never thought he was ever going to pan out in today's NBA but I was also wrong about Gallanari. I really thought the Blazers were going to take Faried the spot before Denver did and they ended up taking Nolan Smith which I thought was a waste.

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Let me ask you this? Do you

Let me ask you this? Do you think Tristian Thompson's upside is really that much higher than Farieds?

He may be a little bigger, but Faried is more athletic, produced at a higher level in the same amount of minutes and despite being older, shows no indication that he is done developing as a player.

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Thompson will be better

Thompson will be better defensively with his length and shot blocking but every other aspect of the game goes to Faried. I would have loved to seen the Sixers take him over Vucevic. Vuc proved he can score but I don't see him adding too much to his game over the next few years. Farieds toughness and the ability to score without running plays for him is a very valuable skill.

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He's a beast. Everytime i

He's a beast. Everytime i watch the Nuggets play he's always the most active player on the floor. I wouldn't be surprised if he's Denvers best all around player a couple years down the road.

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He went in the same area. Bad

He went in the same area. Bad teams aren't bad because of a lack of energy players. Bad teams aren't lacking fifth options. Everything Faried gets offensively is at the rim. While he tries defensively, it is not as if he was able to hang with the Laker big men whenever they were interested in playing. The Nuggets were a middling team before they played him and they were a middling team with him. It is not as if there is anything to him that wasn’t already known. He is a good guy who plays hard. He is going to have a career, but the more important he is to a team the lower the ceiling for the team to have success because you can’t win titles by simply trying.

These guys exist every year. Yes, Tyler Hansbrough is going to have a career, but if he is starting and playing 30+ minutes, then the team isn’t going to be very good. Trevor Booker plays hard, but he doesn’t make the Wizards better. DeJuan Blair busts his butt and there are 30 teams who would take him on their roster, but the Spurs are better in the playoffs with Boris Diaw and Tiago Splitter. It can both be true that the Spurs are better off with Boris Diaw and that the Blair could probably average 17-14 on the Bobcat team that didn’t want Boris Diaw.

The purpose of the draft is not to find a non-bum in the first round. If a team just tries to find guys who will be in the league, then they turn into the Houston Rockets. In the second round, sometimes just taking someone who can function capably at the bottom of the roster and make less than $1 million for a few years is good enough. Good for the Knicks that Landry Fields is worth a roster spot, but would a Knick fan honestly want to use part of their MLE this summer to keep him? In these hypothetical re-drafts, did it ever really make sense to think Landry Fields should have been drafted ahead of Evan Turner (and those did exist)?

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We've disagreed on this in

We've disagreed on this in the past, but every lottery pick isn't a star, and to expect so is just setting yourself up for disappointment. I think there is nothing wrong with drafting a solid, blue collar, hustle player who will average a double double in the 7-14 range of the lottery. If you gamble on the high upside guy everytime, again, you'll be disappointed.

There are plenty of guys who start off slow, Z-Bo, Gerald Wallace, hell even Kobe and Dirk, but my point wasn't to say that Faried is better than everyone in the draft class because he put up 10 and 10 in the playoffs, but to raise the question that maybe is upside is higher than many thought. Just because a player is polished doesnt mean he can't become more polished and in Faried's case, just because a player is on the raw side, doesn't mean that he can develop into a 15 or 16 ppg 11-12 rpg player.

Not every player can play for a contender, and you can bring up the fact that the Nuggets aren't a contender, but isn't that the point of a draft? To make their team better. Faried may be a 5th option around the rim type player, but he also got 3 offensive rebounds per game and got to the line 4 times. Doing things like that make a team better. He probably wont ever average 20 ppg, but many players make teams better without averaging 20 ppg.

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I'm with JoeWolf1. Kenneth

I'm with JoeWolf1. Kenneth Faried slipped last draft. People doubted he could hang with NBA talent, figured he had too many holes in his game, that he was undersized, small school... blah blah blah.

The NFL has this same problem every year. You focus so much on what a player can't do (yet) and undervalue what he can do. You want your prospect too look a certain way, be a certain way. Some dudes can just play ball and what they bring to the table can't be tested. I'm thinking of this undrafted WR who led the NFL in catches and was second in yardage last year. He's not the fastest, not the strongest and he's losing his hair badly. Even if you redid his draft he probably still doesn't go in the first 3 rounds. Who's gonna take a white 5ft9, 185 pound WR in the first 3 rounds?

Every team in the League needs atleast one "Kenneth Faried" in their starting lineup.

MKG is likely going top 5 in a better draft this year and he is similar in size, playing style and motor.

What a difference a year makes.

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It really depends on whether

It really depends on whether you'd take Faried, a guy whose proven he can complete in the NBA and be a valuable contributor, or raw propects like Kanter or Biyomboi, but he's defeinatly in the top 10 in a redraft

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wow

This guy is really tough to talk about for every single Sixers fan who follows the draft even 1% as much as I do. Ya knew exactly what you were getting and it was a legit NBA player. Basically his biggest question was is he a starter or role player? Remains to be seen but I'd say a starter.

I said it months ago and I'll say it again now that Rod Thorn and Co. know it too:

Kenneth Faried >>>> Nik Vucevic. So blatant even a blind person could see it.

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I agree with

I agree with BothTeamsPlayedHard...I love faried, but the bigger role you ask of him the worse your team likely is.

Here's a hypothetical for a basis of comparison...if you put, say, Marcus Thornton on a crappy team, with no scorers, such as the Bobcats, and ask him to play 42 minutes a night, hes gonna get you something like 23-4-4. Great looking numbers. Compare those numbers to James Harden, who plays the same position and gets 17-4-4. Anyone who watches basketball knows Harden is infinately better than Marcus Thornton, but the average fan just assumes Thornton is the better player when only looking at those splits.

Faried is an elite energy player, but his deficiencies (very undersized, can't shoot, can't post up, cant create shot) make him a guy you want giving you 100% off the bench or starting next to a massive C...not playing like 40 min a game against the bevy of 6'10" + centers in the league.

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^

Marcus Thorton does play on a crappy team and already takes 15+ shots per game and only makes 43.8% of them for 18.7 ppg.

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I would take Faried (and

I would take Faried (and some other guys) over Thompson. (I'm in Cleveland).

76ers already have Brand and Thad Young at PF, Vucevic is a 7 footer.

If you have a star or a superstar you have to surround them with role players that fit in with the stars. You need role players to win a title (just ask Miami). You need Horrys, Fishers, Ibakas, Terrys. Faried is an elite role player, and as such he is valuable. That he doesn't need the ball to contribute only goes to his credit.

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This is what I don't

This is what I don't understand. A player such as Faried can play a huge role with a team and not be asked to be a 3rd option offensively. Dennis Rodman, Marcus Camby, Tyson Chandler and countless defensive/hustle players have made key contributions to their teams despite not scoring.

Faried did produce against the front line of the Lakers, it doesn't get much bigger than that. Sure, If Faried is your 2nd option, you're probably not a good team, but a guy who pulls down 3+ offensive rebounds to the game, and gets to the lin 4-6 times a game because of his activity can all of a sudden be a 13 or 14 ppg player without having any plays run for him.

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^

Brand is beyond done and Thad is a total tweener who is better suited coming in off the bench. Vuc plays nothing like a 7-footer.

Brxa
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While he's not nearly a

While he's not nearly a player he used to be Brand averaged 11 ppg and 7 rpg in 32 mpg on a playoff team, so he's hardly done. And even if he was the Sixers would never be able to move his contract. Amnestying him and basically blowing up a playoff team for a mid-round rookie would not make any sense. Him and Thad Yound still take up all the PT at PF, and with them around Faried wouldn't have gotten the minutes. They drafted the best player available at the position they needed, and they're in the second round. And Vucevic will keep improving, all young players do.

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Personally I think you have

Personally I think you have to wait a few years to evaluate a draft. Not every future star is going to produce big numbers his first year in the league. Faried brings excellent energy and rebounding, he is a very good role player, but being a 22 year old rookie, he probably won't get much better than he is now. Some of the guys drafted ahead of him probably will be better players in the long run. It's nice to get production from a rookie, but it's really too early to write off the younger guys who were drafted just because they didn't produce like Faried.

That being said, even with hindsight being 20/20 and all that, it was a weak draft, GMs knew that going in. In a draft that isn't likely to yield many stars, Faried should definitely have probably been taken in the lottery, based on his hustle, heart, strength, athleticism, and obvious NBA-level rebounding ability. It was pretty easy to envision him being able to contribute as a high-quality role-player right away, which is what happened.

GMs were more worried that he was only 6'6 without shoes, that he was too old, that he had a low ceiling, than they were excited about his potential as an energetic rebounder off the bench. So they drafted young guys percieved to have more potential than Faried. Which many of them do.

All I'm really saying is to wait a few years for young guys to pan out before we start to say Kenneth Faried should have been taken like top 5 in that draft.

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Faried played above

Faried played above expectations in his rookie year and Coach Karl seems to have found the right way to use him and not ask him to do things that are beyond him. His big plus points are his energy and intensity, he'll work hard on defence and the offence will give him some easy points in reward. I don't see him ever being a major scoring option but he could give you maybe 13 to 15ppg and also get his 10 plus rebounds, so at worse you have a solid guy who will do the dirty work and can give you a double double.

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Yea

Yea , The Predator can ball who would of known? Faried has a very bright future and I like seeing a guy like himself playing with lawson going forward. Nuggets just need to add a go to guy or at least a very good number 2 , then they will be trouble.

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@BTPH

Is it really that easy to find players with Faried's skill set? Where are the "energy" players of Faried's caliber on Toronto, Washington, Charlotte, etc.? As Joe Wolf pointed out, Faried has been very productive. There are very few athletes of his caliber in the NBA, and he is not close to his ceiling. He needs to continue to work on his defense, as is the case with just about all rookie big men (Defending as a big is a very difficult skill). But he is an effective offensive option in transition who finishes around the rim, has an underrated, opportunistic post-game, and is a high level rebounder.

If there were a re-draft, I would say he should go over Tristan Thompson, as he is both superior right now and is farther from his ceiling. I actually think in the long run Faried could be the better defender due to his athletic ability, mobility, energy and rebounding ability. He could develop into an excellent help defender with added experience.

I think it is more difficult for NBA teams to find players who can be productive without plays being run for them than players whose specialty is creating for themselves. Bad teams are full of players like Corey Maggette, Marcus Thornton, Jerryd Bayless, Jamal Crawford and others like them. Sure, each team needs a balance of players whose skill sets complement each other, but not every player needs the ball.

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“This guy is really tough to

“This guy is really tough to talk about for every single Sixers fan who follows the draft even 1% as much as I do. Ya knew exactly what you were getting and it was a legit NBA player. Basically his biggest question was is he a starter or role player? Remains to be seen but I'd say a starter.

I said it months ago and I'll say it again now that Rod Thorn and Co. know it too:

Kenneth Faried >>>> Nik Vucevic. So blatant even a blind person could see it.”

If Sixer fans wanted Kenneth Faried, then they are stupid. That is a team where Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Andre Iguodala, and Thaddeus Young all have the same problem of not being able to hit a shot from the perimeter. Doug Collins uses his big men to spread the floor to compensate for the huge limitations in his guards and wings. If you want to keep adding more non-threats to the mix, your team goes from playing in the second round to being the Wizards. Watch your team once in a while.

“This is what I don't understand. A player such as Faried can play a huge role with a team and not be asked to be a 3rd option offensively. Dennis Rodman, Marcus Camby, Tyson Chandler and countless defensive/hustle players have made key contributions to their teams despite not scoring.

Faried did produce against the front line of the Lakers, it doesn't get much bigger than that. Sure, If Faried is your 2nd option, you're probably not a good team, but a guy who pulls down 3+ offensive rebounds to the game, and gets to the lin 4-6 times a game because of his activity can all of a sudden be a 13 or 14 ppg player without having any plays run for him.”

Why do you think Kenneth Faried has been a good defender? If the other team’s front court goes off for big games and they are getting points in the paint in big numbers, what was being done well?

As for the offense, it is not a choice between effort and skill. You can have both. A team should not be desirous of a limited offensive player. Pau Gasol, Andre Bynum, and Jordan Hill are all averaging more than 3 offensive rebounds per game in the playoffs. The difference is that Bynum can draw a double team and defend a big man. Gasol can score, pass, rebounds, and defend. Jordan Hill can’t offer all the rest that Gasol and Bynum can, and that is why he is just a guy. If you look at the Pacers, the reason they are competing with the Heat because David West and Roy Hibbert, while not stars, are legitimately big and skilled. No amount of energy and toughness is going to shrink Hibbert to 6’7 or make David West 220 lbs. Udonis Haslem and Joel Anthony cannot heart their way to match their size. The Spurs have been rolling through the playoffs, and the only player on that roster who cannot make 15 to 18-footers is DeJuan Blair. Diaw has basically rendered Blair moot because even at 290-300 lbs, is giving the Spurs offensive rebounds, the abililty to set up teammates for easy points, the size to body Millsap and Blake, and also the ability to stroke a jumper or two.

Look, I’m killing Faried more than I want. I like the guy. I think he represents the NBA well, and am glad he will have a career. It just doesn’t change the fact that when teams in the lottery are trying to build to get themselves to a point where they are competing for a title that they should be kicking themselves for passing on an undersized power forward whose greatest asset is how hard he plays.

“Is it really that easy to find players with Faried's skill set? Where are the "energy" players of Faried's caliber on Toronto, Washington, Charlotte, etc.?”

You are kidding, right? The Wizards have Trevor Booker, Kevin Seraphin, Jan Vesely, Chris Singleton, and Nene. Everyone on that list except Booker is bigger and Nene has gotten more skilled over time, but they are all the same kind of player. The Bobcats supposedly drafted someone of that ilk in Bismack Biyombo, but I can’t defend anything about that team. The Raptors have Amir Johnson and Ed Davis serving that role. Do you want me to go on to other teams overvaluing unskilled big men and finding themselves back in the lottery?

"Sure, each team needs a balance of players whose skill sets complement each other, but not every player needs the ball."

Needing the ball is not the same thing as being capable of having the ball and doing something productive with it. Having a roster full of guys capable of making plays is a good thing, and makes everyone's job easier. The Spurs don't lack energy simply because everyone on their team can make a shot, and there is no problem with guys sharing the ball because talent and selfishness do not go hand in hand.

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I like Faried and he could

I like Faried and he could have been drafted higher but it is still too early. I remember when people said Favors was a bust and now that is proven to not be true. He is still young and can already contribute and could be another top center in a few years.

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i remember watching one game

i remember watching one game of faired my sophmore yr of high school

it was the conference tournaments and the first thing i noticed was this guy with dreads

but i also noticed that he can play.... hustling.. getting put backs... rebounding like a monster.... athletic as hell.... i honestly saw something with this guy..... then two years later he gets drafted..... to early to tell where he would go now tho

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Faried was rated properly, he was drafted to the perfect team

Coach Karl wanted more defensive minded guys Post Melo Drama, Faried got put in a position to excel early on, much like a guy like Lavoy Allen is as the 50th Pick in the draft, those are those guys that are playing the same type of role for Middle of the pack playoff Teams

Allen and Faried are both high energy guys ask to give their teams some aggressive defense for 12 to 18 minutes a game at Best, if they score off broken plays or offensive rebounds then great, I'm honestly suprised that Allen can hit the open mid range jumper, I think I like Allen a little more long term being a Temple guy and all, But Kenny Faried will be a very good rebounder in the NBA for a long time hopefully, I would have liked to drafted Faried too APB but as Both Teams played Hard said he did not mess well with what we were looking for(outside shooting and size) which Nikoli Vucevic provides both LOL, I'm sure Vuc will have a solid career too as a backup C/possible starting C...

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Guys In a redraft of uys who

Guys In a redraft of uys who played this year Faried might go third. He is already a good nba player. And he definitely had at least the third best rookie campaign.

Go back and look at Faried's 36 minute numbers that joe wolf posted. Now name another power forward who puts up as good numbers and who is not an all star. You might name one or two, but you wont come up with many more than that. And these are his rookie numbers! And wolf didn't mention that he gets you those 16 points on 57% shooting. Even Kyrie Irving can't sniff that percentage. Faried looks great. He could get better but really what he does is winning basketball right now. It is a joke that Karl only played him 20 minutes in that game seven but predictable that Denver went on to lose it.

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right now everyone has valid

right now everyone has valid points between wolf and bothteams...

i think he is a solid player who's energy and hustle inspire others to play harder, he deserves the spot he was drafted at at but like i said before, "how much better can he get?", i think other than a few litle things, i think he has pretty much peaked at this point. i don't think he is better suited off the bench.

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How much better does he have

How much better does he have to be if shoots 57% and gets you 16, 12 plus decent blocks and steals. Compare his 36 minute stats to Chris Bosh. Sure bosh gets you 18 points but it is on worth shooting percentage and he only averages 8 rebounds. Also less steals and blocks. Faried is not an offensive game initiator, but you only need one or two of those on the floor at any time. He is an elite hustle guy and a big reason for the nuggets wins this year (even though he didn't play enough).

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@BTPH

To add to my last post: I don't consider Booker, Vesely, or Seraphin energy players of Faried's caliber. Biyombo isn't as good as Faried. Neither are Ed Davis or Amir Johnson. Not all "energy" players are created equal. Nene is good; the Wizards just don't have other players of his caliber. You oversimplify the issue by saying that if a player has a reputation as an energy player who lacks skill are all the same. Faried has more NBA skills than all the players you named except for Nene. Faried's skills may be predicated on athleticism and effort, but they are skills nonetheless. It isn't easy to find players who can rebound as well as Faried, run the floor as well as Faried, finish around the rim as well as Faried, and score in the post like Faried. Just because he takes high percentage shots doesn't mean he is a poor offensive player. Few players with reputations as pure energy players have the ability of Faried.

You can't win with 5 Faried's on the floor, but you can't either with 5 players who all want to be the 1st option. You need some balance. Faried is a superior player to the average lottery pick, and if there was a re-draft, he should be selected high. Player's with his skill set are relatively few. You can't just replace him with any late 1st rounder, except another steal. Players in the mold of Marcus Morris or Alec Burks or Klay Thompson are much easier to find. That isn't supposed to be a knock on those players, who have potential. Klay Thompson had a very good rookie season, but the skills he brings to the table are far easier to replicate than those that Faried does, and in a re-draft, Faried would deserve to go higher.

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The question shouldn't be would you draft him higher

The question should be ...

"What is his ceiling???"

Is it Paul Millsap or Reggie Evans???

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" Why do you think Kenneth

" Why do you think Kenneth Faried has been a good defender? If the other team’s front court goes off for big games and they are getting points in the paint in big numbers, what was being done well?"

Very rarely does a rookie come along that can be considered a very good defender, but I feel Faried projects as one down the line, IMO.

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I think Faried is already

I think Faried is already better than Reggie Evans easily, and that margin will increase dramatically. Evans is a truly elite rebounder, but is not a great defender and does little on offense besides rebound.

I don't see the Millsap comparison. Faried doesn't have the skill set of Millsap on offense, but he is probably the better rebounder going forward and he projects as a better defender.

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BTPH

"If Sixer fans wanted Kenneth Faried, then they are stupid. That is a team where Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Andre Iguodala, and Thaddeus Young all have the same problem of not being able to hit a shot from the perimeter. Doug Collins uses his big men to spread the floor to compensate for the huge limitations in his guards and wings. If you want to keep adding more non-threats to the mix, your team goes from playing in the second round to being the Wizards. Watch your team once in a while."

I don't think anyone has ever given a more cocky response to one of my posts. Anyway, I would not of ever taken Vuc over Faried simply because he is A) 7 foot and B) able to hit an outside shot. Kendrick Perkins has finally developed a decent elbow jumper in his what 9th year...I don't see any reason why Faried couldn't come back next year with the same exact thing.

Also, Vuc obviously isn't the difference between us being the "Wizards" and a second round team seeing as to how he has played 3 total minutes in the playoffs. 5.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg and less than 1 block per game during the regular season isn't exactly ground breaking either. Maybe you should watch my team once in a while chief.

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The sixers need help with

The sixers need help with rebounding as much as shooting and Faried would have been a major upgrade in that department over Vucevic. As for the Sixers turning into the Wiz I have no idea where that is coming from. The Sixers are one of the best defensive teams in the league while the Wizards are one of the worst. That side of the ball that is often forgotten has much more influence then you may realize because offensively they aren't really that different.

The Scare Crow Rises
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But APB we didn't need Faried we got Lavoy Allen in 2nd round

He can rebound and he's improving by the second, plus he's got a nice mid range jumper, and guess what he's playing big minutes for Us against Boston

I like Faried, and yes if we drafted him over Vuc it would have helped out BUT, our scouts have gotten our picks right in the past so I will sive them the benefit of the doubt for Now, and I repeat we got a steal with the 50th pick, he's doing exactly what you would expect of Kenny Faried, I still want Vuc's size/shooting and offensive skillset over Faried's energy and rebounding, especially when we have Brand,Young and Allen giving us energy and rebounding...

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“To add to my last post: I

“To add to my last post: I don't consider Booker, Vesely, or Seraphin energy players of Faried's caliber. Biyombo isn't as good as Faried. Neither are Ed Davis or Amir Johnson. Not all "energy" players are created equal. Nene is good; the Wizards just don't have other players of his caliber.”

No, the roster of the Wizards and Raptors is not the caliber of the Nuggets, and the abundance of guys who do the same things even further diminishes the value of that one trait.

“You oversimplify the issue by saying that if a player has a reputation as an energy player who lacks skill are all the same. Faried has more NBA skills than all the players you named except for Nene. Faried's skills may be predicated on athleticism and effort, but they are skills nonetheless. It isn't easy to find players who can rebound as well as Faried, run the floor as well as Faried, finish around the rim as well as Faried, and score in the post like Faried. Just because he takes high percentage shots doesn't mean he is a poor offensive player. Few players with reputations as pure energy players have the ability of Faried”

Faried doesn’t have a good post game, and doesn’t need to be guarded when with the ball outside the paint. What he does is hang around the hoop and be active. What those other players do is the same thing in a different situation. The perceived value of energy players is largely tied to them being on a team talented enough to serve that function and little more.

“You can't win with 5 Faried's on the floor, but you can't either with 5 players who all want to be the 1st option.”

Ability does not equate to selfishness. The Spurs have players up and down their roster who can make a shot and be trusted to make a decision with the ball, and wanting to be a a1st option is not a problem at all.

“Players in the mold of Marcus Morris or Alec Burks or Klay Thompson are much easier to find. That isn't supposed to be a knock on those players, who have potential. Klay Thompson had a very good rookie season, but the skills he brings to the table are far easier to replicate than those that Faried does, and in a re-draft, Faried would deserve to go higher.”

No. If Kenneth Faried goes to Houston, he gets buried behind Luis Scola and Patrick Patterson too. They play just as hard, rebound well, and are vastly more skilled. If he went to Utah, he wouldn’t take minutes from Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap, Derrick Favors, or Enes Kanter. If he went to Golden State, there would be that little issue of an $80 million contract paid to David Lee because he rebounds, is active around the hoop, and has developed a respectable mid-range game (aside: and also being an abhorrent defensive player).

“Anyway, I would not of ever taken Vuc over Faried simply because he is A) 7 foot and B) able to hit an outside shot. Kendrick Perkins has finally developed a decent elbow jumper in his what 9th year...I don't see any reason why Faried couldn't come back next year with the same exact thing.”

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_...

Kendrick Perkins made three elbow jumpers this year, and was 12-43 behind 9-feet.

“Also, Vuc obviously isn't the difference between us being the "Wizards" and a second round team seeing as to how he has played 3 total minutes in the playoffs. 5.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg and less than 1 block per game during the regular season isn't exactly ground breaking either. Maybe you should watch my team once in a while chief.”

No. Having big men who shoot the ball (Brand, Hawes, Vucevic, and Allen) give the offense enough spacing to function. It is called assembling a team, which is different from this video game world where spacing and skill sets don’t matter. In the real world, it is having the big men at 15-20 feet and pulling the opposing big men away is what separates them from the Wizards who would routinely trot out lineups where Jordan Crawford was the only guy who the other team would have to respect possibly making a shot from outside the paint (and even then he is still Jordan Crawford not Ray Allen). If Philadelphia puts out Kenneth Faried with Evan Turner, Jrue Holiday, and Andre Iguodala, those three won’t have the spacing to get into the paint because the help defense is going to be there.

Nik Vucevic has the value as a 6’ 11” 260 lbs. center who can score inside and out as well as rebound and defend post men to keep Philadelphia from overpaying Spencer Hawes this summer. He hit the rookie wall after a half in Europe and a half compressed season. It happens, but if Philadelphia has any sense he is going to save them a ton of money. The Sixers are going to have Lou Williams, Hawes, and Lavoy Allen as free agents as well as Jrue Holiday up for an extension. They cannot and should not pay all of them, but what works in their favor is that unlike so many teams that find themselves up against the wall when any big man worthy of being in the league becomes a free agent Philadelphia can actually feel comfortable in having an alternative.

“As for the Sixers turning into the Wiz I have no idea where that is coming from. The Sixers are one of the best defensive teams in the league while the Wizards are one of the worst. That side of the ball that is often forgotten has much more influence then you may realize because offensively they aren't really that different.”

I was referring to the offense, and the fact that if the Sixers were to put out as many non-threats as you seem to think they should have desired to that they would also be buried in the lottery.

“I think Faried is already better than Reggie Evans easily, and that margin will increase dramatically. Evans is a truly elite rebounder, but is not a great defender and does little on offense besides rebound.”

Faried isn’t a good defender either.

“Very rarely does a rookie come along that can be considered a very good defender, but I feel Faried projects as one down the line, IMO.”

Why? If he is guarding power forwards, he is always going to give up length and muscle to a guy who won’t have to be an active defender on the other end.

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Lavoy Allen has been

Lavoy Allen has been great...especially this series but I would still trade him and Vuc for Faried. I am hoping that Elton Brand doesn't come back next year. He has had a solid year and is there best shot blocker but they can't pay him like an elite player anymore. I like the hardwork and potential that Allen and Vuc bring but I think Faried just brings a little bit more of it.

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" Why? If he is guarding

" Why? If he is guarding power forwards, he is always going to give up length and muscle to a guy who won’t have to be an active defender on the other end"

Of course the guy will have to account for Faried at the other end. If he doesn't try to keep him off the glass and nuetralize his activity around the rim, he'll be doing his team a disservice letting Faried continue to give his team 2nd opportunities. As a defender, a lot of guys I've guarded, that have worn me out were guys that didn't stop moving. Sure, a guy you have to try to lock down will tire you out, but so will a guy who never stops moving and hits the glass like it's his main job.

Every NBA PF is not 6'10'' 250 lbs with a 7'3'' wingspan.

He's 6'8'' with a 7' wingspan a 35'' vertical, his max reach is 11'11'' and tested stronger than many "ideally" sized PF prospects tested in the past few years. He's not exactly an athletically impotent midget.

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"Every NBA PF is not 6'10''

"Every NBA PF is not 6'10'' 250 lbs with a 7'3'' wingspan." If a team wants to win a title, they are going to have to go through teams who do. The goal isn't to simply beat on the bums, it is to beat the Spurs, Thunder, Lakers, etc. You are seeing it with the Heat minus Bosh right now. It is not that the Pacers are a better team than them, but inability to match bulk and length up front is really hurting them.

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You do have a point that size

You do have a point that size does kill...that is why the Pacers would have the edge over the Sixers or Celtics if the pull the upset on the heat. However if you look at Faried and his tencious attack of the ball you really can't compare him to many other 6'8 players. He is like a throwback Rodman style PF who surrounded by a great scorer or two could win a title.

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"You do have a point that

"You do have a point that size does kill...that is why the Pacers would have the edge over the Sixers or Celtics if the pull the upset on the heat. However if you look at Faried and his tencious attack of the ball you really can't compare him to many other 6'8 players. He is like a throwback Rodman style PF who surrounded by a great scorer or two could win a title."

But to get back to the original point of the thread, if you are picking in the lottery, that team does not have those two elite scorers who can carry a team in the playoffs. The purpose of the top picks is to build, the purpose of later picks is to complement.

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BTPH has a point, but Faried

BTPH has a point, but Faried isn't incompetent when matched up against bigger players. He can beat most pfs of any size down the floor and he has the strength and athleticism to match up with bigger 4s and 5s. And even if a player is a size mismatch for Faried, he can be a mismatch with his mobility and athleticism. To win a title you do need to go through big teams as well as small teams, but that doesn't mean you should just go for the biggest players you can get.

Edit: And to BTPH's last point, I think you should take the BPA in the lottery, not the player who has the greatest chance to be your leading scorer. Their will only be a few if any all star scorers in any given lottery.

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" If a team wants to win a

" If a team wants to win a title, they are going to have to go through teams who do. The goal isn't to simply beat on the bums, it is to beat the Spurs, Thunder, Lakers, etc. You are seeing it with the Heat minus Bosh right now. It is not that the Pacers are a better team than them, but inability to match bulk and length up front is really hurting them."

I'm just trying to say there is no physical formula that makes a good defender. Faried has always been a guy who will do what it takes for his team to win. Rebound, set screens, whatever and a guy who is relentless at what he does. Defense is a mentality and I've seen smaller guys and sometimes less athletic guys give bigger guys tons of problems.

Gerald Wallace made the All-NBA 1st defensive team 2 years ago and he's a 6'7'' power forward. There is nothing indicating an undersized player with the right mentality cannot have sucess as a defender.

The Heat have one of the weakest bench in the league. It's not because Dexter Pittman isn't long or athletic, it's because he's not very good. Dexter Pittman, Joel Anthony and Ronny Turiaf couldn't start for the majority of the teams in the league and now their supposed to take on a deeper, better front line? They all have career scoring averages of less than 5...I don't see how Kenneth Faried equates into this example.

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Faried gives weight but I did

Faried gives weight but I did not see any evidence of players abusing him on defense this season. And that is rare for a rookie. Once the refs start giving him more of the benefit of calls, he is going to be a fine defender.

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Re-Draft? Faried should have

Re-Draft? Faried should have been a top 10 pick.

No specific order.......... Top 10 BASED off production should have been

Kyrie Irving

Kawhi Leonard

Brandon Knight

Kenneth Faried

Iman Shumpert

Kemba Walker

Isaiah Thomas

Marshon Brooks

Klay Thompson

Tristan Thompson

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Whatever other arguements

Whatever other arguements exist, there is no question Faried should have gone to Sacramento. I don't get their infatuation with Jimmer (and didn't at the time of the draft), but Faried next to Cousins would have actually been sick and fit perfectly. Then again, that's why they're the Kings.

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Whoa Whoa Whoa Sewok

You posted this above

" Lavoy Allen has been great...especially this series BUT I would still trade him and Vuc for Faried. I am hoping that Elton Brand doesn't come back next year. He has had a solid year and is there best shot blocker but they can't pay him like an elite player anymore. I like the hardwork and potential that Allen and Vuc bring but I think Faried just brings a little bit more of it. "

You basicly said that as a fan of the Sixers you'd trade Both Lavoy Allen and Nik Vucevic for 1 Kenneth Faried???

Are you bat sh*t crazy homie??? Allen could very well be better than Faried TODAY if I were taking a coaches Poll, on top of That Nik Vucevic is so far ahead of Faried on offense that I'm pretty sure The Nuggets would trade us Faried or Javale Mcgee for Nik Vucevic straight up...There is a reason we took the Kid from USC/Europe, it's because he has size and skillset it takes to become a very servicable Center in the NBA, if Faried ever becomes more than a Defensive spot starter/bench player he'll be over achieving...

Both Teams Played Hard is the winner of this debate, I sure wouldn't have taken I'm in the Lottery if we had a RE: DRAFT today, talk to me in 5 years and I'm sure I'll say the same thing...

Faried is a perfect role player and could become a better defender and learn a few post moves or develop a mid range jumper, he's everything BTPH claimed he is...

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^ He's absolutely worthy of

^ He's absolutely worthy of late lottery. I don't think there are 14 stars in this draft. I'd still rather pick an elite or very good role player capable of starting and doing the dirty work, than an average wing scorer.

To think all 14 lottery picks are going to give you elite or star wings and future All-Star is going to make you a very sad person. I'd really consider Faried in the 10-14 range if the draft were redone today.

Of course I'm not going to look at rookie numbers and take Faried over Enes Kanter and Derrick Williams, but do what he's proved this year moves him up.

In 5 years, I 100% think Faried will be one of the 14 best players from this draft. He may #11 or #13, but he'll be there. I'll take a 13 pt 10 rebound hustle player over a more dynamic player who spends his career coming off the bench.

Top 10 NBA rebounder or top 10 NBA bench scorer who didn't live up to his potential? I'm going with the rebounder.

Faried may not put you over the edge as far as winning a title, but neither are Jimmer, Kemba, Alec Burks, or Marshawn Brooks. Yeah, they'll score more points, but how does a guy who drops 15 or 16 points per game take a team over the edge, while a guy who gives you 10 or 11 points and rebounds per game not?

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"In 5 years, I 100% think

"In 5 years, I 100% think Faried will be one of the 14 best players from this draft. He may #11 or #13, but he'll be there. I'll take a 13 pt 10 rebound hustle player over a more dynamic player who spends his career coming off the bench."

And I am sure this same exact thread and reasoning was given to DeJuan Blair after his rookie season, but in year three his title contending team has left him to be an afterthought. How does that change his perceived value relative to where he was drafted? When he was 8-7 in 20 minutes, everyone was talking about how dumb the GMs were. Okay, but what changes now that he has been replaced by a guy in Boris Diaw who is bigger and more versatile? Does that mean that he couldn't be a "a 13 pt 10 rebound hustle player" or in my opinion probably even more than that on a number of teams? There were people last year who couldn't wait to praise Tyler Hansbrough when he was starting for the Pacers and putting up numbers, but Indiana went out and signed David West and are a better team for it.

I am not saying the hustle guys can't get on the court, and not saying there is not value to have an undersized grinder on the roster (though teams have won a title without one), but if I am looking to build a contender it is not anywhere near the top of my list mostly because I know that they are out there to be had without the kind of investment that is a lottery pick.

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I completely understand with

I completely understand with what you are saying, but I just have a hard time believing that this draft will have 14 superior players when all is said and done.

Lottery teams are not contenders and we've discussed this in the past and have different opinions. I just believe you have to walk before you can run. Sometimes picking up a grinder at #12 or #13 does make a difference between being the 9th seed and being the 8th or 7th seed. Those spots are often only seperated by a game or two and It's a lot easier to add a key free agent if your team was in the playoffs last season.

I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you when we're talking about building a contender. If the Bulls or Thunder got a lottery pick then Faried would be a terrible pick, they'd be better off to gamble on someone they can hope to develop behind a star or starter. They have players a lot better and they might as well gamble, but the Bucks, Rockets, Bobcats, and Suns are not contenders.

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No way is Lavoy Allen better

No way is Lavoy Allen better then him today or ever. Lavoy is having a nice series against the celtics but he was very inconsistent when he was getting decent minutes in the regular season. Faried brings a far more consistent effort and even though Lavoy may be the sixers best rebounder I would say Faried is better.

I really like Vucevics game but don't know if he has it in him to become physical enough to be a true quality starting center in the NBA. I may have gone a little overboard saying I would trade both for Faried but one or the other I surely would swap for him.

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Hey Joe

I can some of those guys hitting big shots in the playoffs for a contender 5 years from now

I can't say I'll see Faried out jumping or out hustling guys in the playoffs 5 years from now...

The Dallas Mavericks won thye Championship with a scorer guard taking a lot of shots(Barea) so to say a guy like Jimmer can't get hot for a Contender in a few years is short sighted, what makes Faried so special to you now will be that special in 5 years when all the high energy plays come back to bit him in the ass...

Will he be out rebounding guys at 6'7 when he's 30 years old, maybe but an NBA team better not expect more than 8 to 18 minutes and a few fouls throughout his NBA carrer...he's just not that good IMO, I see more in Lavoy Allen and Chandler Parson then I do Kenny Faried...

You want 14 better prospects in My eyes

hell give me both Morris twins, Burks and Brooks, Klay and Kemba, Kyrie and Knight, Vessely and Singelton, Thomas and Freddete, Honeycutt and Malcolm Lee, Shumpert and Parsons, Tristan Thompson and Kawhi Leonard, Norris Cole and Selvin Mack...Allen and Vucevic, do you see where I'm going with this Joe...I love you as a poster but you ran into the brick wall in the Thread...

would he have been more effective if he was drafted instead of Biyombo, hell yes, does that mean Charlote should have drafted either with a Lottery Pick??? No they should not have Drafted Faried or Biyombo...

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