Jrue holiday trade
What are your thoughts on it?
I just dont like it for Philly. People are saying the sixers are mediocre and need to rebuild. Okay, but aren't guys Like holiday the type of players you hope to rebuild around? He's 23 years old, averaged 18-8-4 and plays all defensive team caliber on the other end. And the biggest kicker in my book is that similar to the rondo situation in Boston, the sixes signed him to extension at just the right time prior to last season before he really broke out and got Him for good value at 11 mil per for the next 4 seasons until 2017. 11 mill for a guy who would probably demand Max if he was a free agent this summer is great.
So now they get Noel and next years pick which is top 5 protected. My guess is it will be somewhere around 9-12 range with the pelicans missing the playoffs but being close to a .500 team. And I know none of us know exactly what Noel or the pick will become, but why give away a franchise building piece for the CHANCE you get another franchise rebuilding piece. I saw today where Chad ford supported the trade saying Noel has much more upside then jrue. Again, jrue is 23 and getting better every year. Shouldn't we be hoping Noel can become all-star caliber before we say he has more upside then actual all- stars. If he becomes another camby, are we really talking about a franchise changer?
And for those who say rebuilding is the way for the sixers, they just got a ton of cap relief this summer already with Bynum and brands contracts coming off the boards. They only have 3 guys under contract after this upcoming season in turner, jrich, and Thad young who are combining to make a little more then 20 mill so it's not like the tram was in bad financial shape. They also had the 11 pick to add another piece to play alongside jrue and had bazz, Steven Adams, olynyk, and others available.
It's possible this trade works out. But the draft is risky especially since we aren't talking about top 5 picks here. Some teams rebuild for many years before they land the guys that could lead them deep in the playoffs.
And to add, it's not that I think this is a terrible lopsided trade, just saw some sites giving the sixers an A as if they nailed it which I don't agree with at all.
As a Sixers fan who celebrated when Holiday fell to us in the draft and after watching his growth over the years I must say that even I am super excited about this trade as Sam Hinkie just changed the whole outlook giving us Sixers fans more promise. Instead of putting together a team and hoping they over achieve with rare once in a lifetime talents running the league the Sixers are going after the rare.
Since the AI trade the team has moved away from the legacy of the Sixers which has been built on rare talent like Wilt, Moses, Dr. J, Barkley and AI. What the Holiday trade really gave the Sixers was a chance to land Wiggins or Parker.
They're starting over with a game changing defender/shot blocker, and a pure playmaking pass first PG. Both Noel and MCW not only possess elite size and athleticism for they're position but they're best frinds put in a position to grow together. Noel and MCW are also the thpe of players other players love playing with. MCW is the perfect type of PG to pair with athletic bigs and scorers and they both possess team enhancing skills in Noel shot blocking and MCW passing.
Nobody the Sixers could have signed would of made there future this bright.
"what the holiday trade really gives the sixers was a chance to land wiggins or Parker"
---- so you don't think wiggins or Parker will be top 5 picks?
Yes I think Wiggins will go 1st and Parker will go 2. With Holiday the Sixers would of been just good enough to not get a top 5 or even 10 pick but wouldn't of been good enough to b a real threat. With Holiday gone and drafting 2 raw players with a ton of upside the Sixers are free to bottom out and should be bad enough to get a top 3 pick with they're own pick while also collecting another lotto pick from Nola in the 7-12 range.
Gotcha, I was obviously overlooking the fact the sixers will have Thier own pick, lol. But still, they could have stunk things up even with holiday if they wanted. Just no gaurantee they even land one of those guys.
Yeah, I think the sixers being bad this year is the main reason it's easier to give up holiday. Hinkie also probably saw that Burke mcCollum and MCW were all still available to draft when making this trade. IMO I think the Pelicans will be in the 13-17 range with their pick but even if the Sixers don't get to draft wiggins, Parker or Randle I think there are quite a few A+ talents to draft. James Young, Marcus Smart, Aaron Gordon, Andrew Harrison, Mario Hezonja, Dario Saric, Vonleh, Selden. And before I get negged for putting Saric in the conversation he killed it in the 12 hoops summit (13 14 & 5 in 24 mins) and is currently putting up 23 13.5reb 9.5ass through 2 games in the u19 world championships, these are indicators to me how good he is.
The Sixers got the guy they wanted and 2014 first rounder for an inefficient point guard on a long contract. Sure, Holiday was an all-star last year, but that's mostly because Rose and Rondo were out and Deron had a bad first half of the season. Because Holiday will have better pieces around him in Gordon (if healthy) and Davis than he did in Philly, he will probably have some decent numbers with NOP, but he won't be an all-star in the west.
Holiday shot 43% and turned the ball over a lot, but he was asked to do a lot and at his young age I think he will clean the wasted possessions up. And as for the long contract, as I stated, that was one of the best things he had going or him. A Kevin love with 2 years relishing kinda scares me because you know you are gonna gve to compete with 29 other teams soon. But holiday was locked up. He was going no where and at 11 mill per was a bargain. Hell, Noel will be up for free agency as soon as holiday will. No possible way you can view that contract as a negative.
As for being an all-star in the west, maybe not. But if you don't make it because the other point gaurds are named Paul, Parker, curry, Westbrook there's no shame in that.
Time will tell.
If the Sixers are able to land either Wiggins/Parker/Randle and they actually pan out to their potential, this trade will be great for them and their franchise. If they aren't able to land either Wiggins/Parker/Randle or they simply don't pan out to be superstars, this will be one of the worst trades in franchise history.
For now, it's a great win for the Hornets. They have a solid core of bigs with Davis/Anderson/Lopez and a good pair of guards with Holiday/Gordon.
I don't know about you but I would have loved to see Noel and Davis on the same team, the Block Party in New Orleans.
The thing about this trade is that if Noel comes close to his potential the trade was worth it. If MCW eventually starts challenging for the league lead in assists and steals like he's capable then it looks better. And of ciurse if they land a top 3 pick it was a great trade. All this and I didn't even mention the possibility that the Sixers will be in a position to possibly draft a guy like Andrew Harrison, James Young, Wayne Seldon or Aaron Gordon with the Nola pick next year.
This is a great trade imo no matter what way u break it down.
It's funny that people are forgetting about Smart form OSU. The guy is a beast.
As a Sixers fan, my initial reaction was why the hell are we trading Jrue Holiday? He's the one player we have who could be a starter on a Championship contending team, he's marketable and the face of the franchise. He's the most likable Sixer that I have ever rooted for, 1st time all star at 22 and a very talented PG (the efficiency issue is mostly to do with Doug Collins's atrocious offensive scheme imo, not Holiday's actual game).
However, as it set in, I think the Sixers won the deal and quite considerably. The Hornets are going to be a back end of the lottery team or competing for one of the late seeds in the West. Jrue will help them but I could see the Hornets still in the lottery and if things don't go swimmingly, the Sixers could get another top 10 pick in the deepest draft since 2003.
Jrue Holiday is too good to allow the Sixers to tank to get Andrew Wiggins, hell, he was one of two consistent performers (Thad) last year with zero play from Andrew Bynum and we won 34 games playing an outdated style of offense. If we get a better coach who improves our shot selection (which I'm assuming we will), then we would actually be more likely to win more games and be a back end of the lottery/6-8 seed in the East, again. We haven't been able to attract high profile free agents and it's not likely that we would be able to anyway because we (1) don't have a championship pedigree, (2) a star for other players to gravitate too (Jrue is very good, but he's not a star) and (3) the roster just isn't good enough.
The Sixers get one of the very few and potential blue chip prospects in this draft in Nerlens Noel. They get a PG in Michael Carter-Williams who has to improve his jumper but he has excellent defensive potential, good court vision and MCW is a great passer. Noel is going to need time to rehab his injury before he's ready to play (helps tanking), Noel is not quite NBA ready yet (needs to fill out his frame and isn't polished enough offensively) and combining that with MCW sporting a very inconsistent jumper, the signs are there for the Sixers to stink next year.
The Sixers may get the best player in the 2013 and 2014 drafts and have another lottery pick in the 2014 draft, that is a great return for Jrue. I loved Jrue and wish him well in New Orleans, but I think the Sixers made a great trade and it opens the door for them to be successful in the future. We had been stuck in the middle of the NBA for what seemed like an eternity, it's time the Sixers get out of it one way or the other. This trade allows us to get the #1 pick next year, we will be competing with Charlotte, Orlando, Boston and Phoenix for it as things stand right now.
All aboard the Sam Hinkie train, the status quo wasn't good enough, time to hit the reset button.
I like the trade for Philly and will like the one even more that moves Turner out of town. One thing Noel brings which we haven't had since Ratliff and Mutumbo is a rim protector. We also picked up 2 additional 2nds in next years draft and freed up loads of cap space for the next 2 seasons
Being bad enough for a top 5 pick next year, having a 2nd 1st rounder and a few 2nd rounders with a load of cash will make summer of 2014 a Funtime in Sixerville which I can't say we've seen in awhile
I did see Kwame Brown elected to steal another year of salary thanks to the moron regime of last year giving him a player option
Between those type moves and the Bynum disaster it's time to look ahead
You just sound like a Turner hater because there isn't any possible way the Sixers get a better return for Turner then they did for Holiday.
This move was genius. In fact I think the Sixers had the best draft in a few years. They pulled off an incredible move. I am envious of Sixers' fans and their wizard GM Sam Hinkie. Sixers fans should be dancing in the streets with a genius like this man running their organization. The future is incredibly bright for this team. They will suck and they will suck very badly next year and they will do no worse than a 4th pick in an absolutely loaded draft and make no mistake this draft is loaded. On top of that they could have a very high pick with New Orleans pick. On top of that they have two young guys with loads of potential that they drafted. On top of that they will probably be bad for a few years since they will be incredibly young, and they will stockpile more talent. On top of that they have some decent assets that playoff teams could deal for like Thad Young, Evan Turner, and Spencer Hawes. Not great players but good enough to get something of value in return for. With Hinkie who knows what this wizard can pull off, if I was other GM's I'd be scared to deal with this shark. Joe Dumars needs to block all Sam Hinkie calls so he isn't duped into this shark's mind games.
Contrast the outlook of the Sixers franchise now compared to the middle of the road Sixers under Ed Stefanski and Billy King before him. This franchise has hope like never before. Sure they could have landed a superstar with a middle of the road pick but their chances of doing so are very, very low compared to the chances of landing a franchise changer at the top of the draft. Don't get me wrong Jrue Holiday is an all star caliber player but he is not the superstar that Philly is looking for. You need a strong foundation and starting from square one using their best asset is the smartest decision in the long run. It's not an easy move to do, it takes stones to say we are going to rebuild from the ground up. Some fans want instant gratification and they will be angry but reading Sixers blogs most of their fans do realize the genius of this move for the long term health of their franchise.
My Pistons should have done this instead of holding on to their veterans too long and adding free agents in a win at all costs mentality. Sometimes winning right now isn't the smartest move in the long run in sports. There is a time to go for it and a time to rebuild, great general managers realize when the time is right to fold their hand look for a better spot.
Both teams came out winning. Jrue pushes the pelicans deep into the playoffs while the 76ers get two players to build around while having a chance at Wiggins. A core of Carter-Williams, Nerlens Noel (if he can recover) and Andrew Wiggins is amazing.
I like this trade more for the 76ers than the Pelicans.
I mean, two lottery picks (The Pelicans won't make the playoffs next season) for Holiday? That's a little steep!
I mean, it's not like Vasquez is a bum. I thought the Pelicans should've just drafted Burke/Carter-Williams and still had a lottery pick next season.
I'm from Philly. We are going to miss Jrue who was heading for stardom. I was quite surprised, as were all 6ers fans, when Hinkie (GM) traded him. However, we knew as well as the Sixers that a bigger plan was needed for the future. Trading Jrue gave us the Pelican's 1st round draft pick, perhaps a lottery pick that's protected 1-5. Since we're headed for the lottery again in 2014, we may get two lottery picks as we did in 2013.