[Meditated StatesParticipant]

I have not seen him play much. I hear he is a legit point but he was playing the two at UCLA because of Collison. He is a bigger player so I understand thats why he was taken before Collison but is he better? So what is the deal with him, what does he do well?

[Lemons4LifeParticipant]

Holiday is so underrated. Some amateur users on here think he was “hype” and wasn’t great at all at UCLA, even though I think he wasn’t good at UCLA either. Holiday posses talent in athelticism, shooting, defence, & basketball IQ. People say he is a horrible shooter, but whoever said that needs to actually look at his stats first. Also, I see him developing into a pretty good player like a poor man’s Brandon Roy. Holiday however could not show his true potential playing behind Collison. If he did though, a lot of users on here might actually have a godd idea of who he is!

[llperez]

There have been plenty of Holiday threads already, so I’m surprised you have’nt already read what people have to say about him. He seems to be a real figure of disagreement on here. Some people say he has shown nothing special and was lucky to have been a first round pick. Others, like myself, feel that he has a ton of potential and can turn out to be one of the better players from this draft.

He seems to be a lot more comfortable with the ball in his hands running the point. He is unselfish and has really solid size and athleticism. He finishes well when he gets into the lane and has solid ball handling and shooting. His defense was also very impressive in his one year at UCLA. He just turned 19, so he has plenty of time to grow.

But, like the naysayers will point out, he never took over a game or looked overly impressive at UCLA. A lot of his hype comes from what he did in highschool. He needs to cut down on turnovers and improve his perimeter shooting.

If Philly resigns AMiller for a few years, then Holiday will be in a great position to develop. He also has a style of game that should fit in well in Philly. They put a lot of emphasis on size, athleticism, defense, and playing in the open court. Their GM has been pretty succesful with taking risks on promising young players like Speights and TYoung.

[JNixonParticipant]

How can you say anyone who averages 8 ppg and gets drafted in the top 20 is underrated?

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

Why the hell you think I asked the question? I know nothing about the dude.

[MattissickParticipant]

The reason he averaged 8 points is because the offense revolved around 1. Collison 2. Josh Shipp 3. Alfred Aboya. Holiday was trying too hard to be a good team player and got a little scared when he had the ball. He has a really good shooting form but it didn’t go in when he shot it. He played some good defense but sometimes got benched because Malcolm Lee was their best perimeter defender. He only played a couple minutes of point guard at the end of the season/in the tournament and he showed amazing promise in his limited minutes. At off-guard, he was nothing special but at point he was very productive and showed good vision/play making ability/drove the lane with ease. I watched every one of his games and I think the NBA game is more suited for him. Coach Howland at UCLA plays a strict style of play with defense first then a slow paced half court offense and Holiday had trouble finding his place. The reason Collison played in front of him was because he played 4 years at UCLA and was an ideal leader and team player. Also he shot amazing percentages. Holiday will be a good pro but it will take a year or two I think.

[zruc57Participant]

I like Holiday, but why do you guys say look at the stats for shooting?
he shot 30% from three-pointers- this is less than the horrible shooting Russel Westbrook at UCLA.
72%- this is a bad percentage for a guard.

[llperez]

Only one person said look at his stats. If you were going by stats, then Holiday is very unimpressive. He rarely got to play point. On rare occasions where he pulled down the defensive rebound and pushed it himself, he looked impressive. He read the court well and crossed guys over in the open court. When he got into the lane, he often showed off his athleticism in his finishes. I think the pg position is where he will excel, and UCLA already had Collison there.

[JNixonParticipant]

If Holiday was as “good” as everyone thinks, Josh Shipp and Alfed Aboya shouldnt have been more productive than him. He couldnt produce with those guys? What will he do with Andre Iguodala, Lou Williams, Thad Young and Kapono taking shots? Is he gonna play scared then too? And why would you take someone that plays scared?

[llperez]

I don’t think he was scared at all, do you? He was an 18 year old playing out of position alongside 3 seniors on a top 20 team. He was just trying to focus on defense more then anything.

I have friends who played at UCLA, and I’ve heard plenty of guys who went there say that Ben Howland does’nt give recruits any sort of promise as far as shots or displaying their offense. Farmar said he was torn between UCLA and Florida. Donovan was telling him how many points he was gonna score and how he would showcase his abilities. Howland just said, “you play for me, you are gonna play defense, and you are gonna win.” So far guys who played under Howland have had pretty good success. Westbrook, Love, and Mbah a Moute were all impressive this last year. Farmar and Afflalo have been solid despite being picked at the end of the first round.

My point is, that playing at UCLA does not always make you look as impressive because they run half court sets where the majority of the 35 second shot clock gets used up. I don’t think he was scared so much as just trying to fit in. Give him a couple years, those skills should rise to the surface.

[JNixonParticipant]

Im just going by what Mattisick said. he said he was a little scared when he had the ball. But I hope its true, I hope he makes the 76ers better. There is no use at complaining anymore because he is with Philly now, you know.

[MattissickParticipant]

Yeah he might not have been scared but he never took shots and always passed the ball. He was not aggressive and hardly ever drove the lane. When he had a smaller guard on him or they were against a bad team, he would be more aggressive but in their big games he just focused on defense and getting the ball to Shipp and Collison. And about that.. Shipp was a better college player than Holiday even if it doesn’t seem he will make it in the pros. He was a fearless driver, very athletic at one point, and had good touch from 3. Aboya was an absolute beast in the paint and bullied whoever he wanted and eventually developed a mid range shot. Junior Nikola Dragovic emerged last season as the number 4 option with very good 3 point shooting (he hit 5 or 6 threes in the first half of one game). So Holiday was someone lost in their offense and resorted to playing good defense. Some people think that Howland didn’t play him at point guard because he knew it would make his draft stock sore and he wanted Holiday to stick around another year. But when they got into the post season, it was all about winning and Holiday began to receive the backup minutes at point guard as well at the starting minutes at shooting guard, and everyone then realized his potential.

[MattissickParticipant]

haha sick to think what? That post was well though out..

[deuce4off]

By Aran_Smith
Fri, 06/05/2009 – 9:41pm

I spent last weekend at the Pangos U18 All American camp in Long Beach, California evaluating future talent. This is an event where in past years a number of players have had their coming out parties including Anthony Randolph, and where John Wall shined last year. With the top rising senior Harrison Barnes there, this figured to be an excellent event to cover and it did not disappoint.

I got a chance to talk to a number of the top national recruiting gurus, Dave Telep, Van Coleman, Jerry Meyer, Brick Oettinger, Frank Burlison, Clark Francis, Evan Daniels, Gerry Freitas, Aggrey Sam, Joel Francisco, Patrick Stanwood, and Mark Maggard and get their take on a number of things including this year’s draft.

One of the things I asked a number of them about was two of the bigger mysteries of this year’s NBA draft: Jrue Holiday and Brandon Jennings.

Nearly everyone feels that Holiday is tremendously overrated. Guys like Burlison and Freitas make a living scouting West Coast talent and have seen these guys dozens of times in high school as well as college (Holiday). Burlison mentioned a number of factors including the fact that Holiday was never a point guard in high school (so why should we assume he’s one now?), the notion that he’s an athletic combo like Westbrook (not even close to being a freak athlete, like Westbrook) and the idea that he’s a lock down defender, he’s not (when UCLA played Washington State they had to take him off Klay Thompson because he was giving up too many points).

[MattissickParticipant]

That guy is crazy..

[MattissickParticipant]

the dontblockmyaccount guy was crazy, not the guy who just posted

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

exactly..ive said that many times that holiday never played pg in highschool…also the fact that he said that sometimes he didnt feel that confident while playing at ucla..as far as his shooting no he is not a good shooter and if you go to draftexpress they break down the shooting percentage so some of ya’ll who are a lil slow will see what his true shooting percentage is not counting layups

[llperez]

I kinda contradicted myself when I said Holiday is a good shooter, then turned around and said he needed to improve his shooting. What I meant to say was that he has good form, and 31% from 3 is not exactly terrible. But yes, he certainly needs to improve his consistency.

Holiday might not have played pg in highschool, but he certainly had the ball in his hands plenty. I’ve read numerous scouts say that he should benefit from playing pg and it seems like his more natural position. And after having watched him with the ball in his hands vs without, I agree that pg is his best position. I don’t think there is any need for you to call people slow and try and make this personal.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

its pretty clear that pg is the only position that he really has a chance at since hes not a good shooter..31% in college is pretty bad..especially when you consider the 3pt line is farther away and you have to shoot over taller defenders..and all players that are stars in highschool have the ball in there hands most of the time that doesnt make them a point guard and i will never call someone a pg untill they PROVE that they can play that position which holiday hasnt..like ive said time and time again i will not say a player is gonna do this or that unbtill they have proven that they can do it..either on the college level or in summer leauge so basically holiday is await a see player but my money is on him being a pretty good backup/parttime starter untill he PROVES other wise

[JNixonParticipant]

31% from three is terrible, especially in college, because there is less range. And I thought Holiday didnt play PG in high school, he didnt even play point guard in the McDonalds Game when Jennings was out of the game.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

yep….thats why imma wait and see on him as well as rubio..though rubio showed a lil more in some games of what he might be able to do

[llperez]

I would never say he is gonna do something until he proves it and we agree he is a project that needs to go out and improve. But when I evaluate 18 year olds, I look at what their upside is versus their weaknesses. If I was a GM, I would rather swing for the fences on potential then play it safe with someone who is more proven but with limited upside. Think about Mateen Cleaves going lottery or Kerry Kittles being drafted over Bryant. Sure there are plenty of examples the other way as well. But in a weak draft, I expect Holiday to be one of the better players when it is all said and done.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

i agree with that but i also take into account what potential a player has shown me and holiday hasnt shown any indication of being a special player and i bet that if some of the fans never heard of him in highschool and only watched him at ucla then there would be no real disscussion of him. just like the gms that skipped over him i would have done the same thing because these other players at least showed the potenial to be special in at least one game..holiday shows a maybe potenial of being delonte west…another thing about holiday disscussions i still have yet to find someone who says..well in this game he dominated or this half he did this or that or had this many points or this many assist..i hear some good arguements but no one seems to have any proof of great potenial….im actually tryna think of one player in the history who didnt at least show great potenial for one game and then became a very very goodplayer/all star in the nba???

[Author]

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