[zauerbachParticipant]

I dont understand why everyone is so high on him all of a sudden?
He had a decent year at best this season in a mediocre pac 10
i understand he is having good workouts, but if he cant perform THAT well against his pac 10 opponents
why do people think he will be able to perform well against pros

in my opinion he has no reason being in the lottery in a lot of mock drafts.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

i feel the same way and ucla fans will yell up and down about its his great potential..and i tell them” i havent seen that super star potenial) usually you at least see it in one game or at least a half where the player dominates…and then i hear its because he played sg instead of pg….really???? if kobe playes the 3 instead of the three..or if ray allen plays the three instead or even if derrick rose gets moved to the 2 instead of the one in college will he really look as average as jru?..i dont think so…im guessing alot of people are talking about the potential he showed in highschool against other highschool players half of at least 80percent went on to d2 schools…and i never put much stock into one on none or 2 on 2( esspecially when the guys you are going against are maybe second round picks)..i put more stock into 5 on 5

[QHaynes123]

potential- Hoilday has the potential to be a top 5 PG and a great SG at the next level.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

k i hear ya but thats based on what? highschool?

[QHaynes123]

1st off- check out my mock draft

yea…he is a good player…many people thought he could go from HS to pros if he could…he thrived at times when he played PG.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

nim tireof all these people mock drafts and im not gonna say someone is gonna be this or that great from what they did in highschool…at college he never showed any type of greatness and everyone that hypes him wouldnt be saying a thing about him if they never heard about him in highschool and all they say was his games in college same as alot of my brother friend pumped up felepie lopez years ago because of what he did in highschool..many people think alot of guys could go straight pro and be this or that ..doesnt mean they could those people just think they could..pretty much im jumping on no ones bandwagon who doesnt show me this so fcalled great potential ..hhonestly he reallly needs to go back to school skill wise but i cant blame him for comming out so he can get those millions and not be exposed even more in college

[RickyRubio9Participant]

is getting alot of hype based on his potential and people see him like another Westbrook and I was high on him too, but what can you do? He wasn’t asked to play alot of Point due to Darren Collison and he had to play off the ball rather then dominate and even then he still didn’t get asked to score alot like some others young one and dones are asked to. I think he will be the 3rd best PG in this draft.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

shouldnt matter where you are put at as a good player..and he tried to score more then he did he just couldnt and his fg and three point percentage reflected it and the potential once again is from highschool at least show it in college..dominate one game or at least one half

[llperez]

have already gone back and forth on this the other day. And bringing Kobe Bryant into this discussion because he would do well at other positions makes you sound kinda ridiculous. Holiday has a lot of potential. He did not show it with any consistency as a freshman, but it’s not like 9 pts with a couple assists and rebounds is garbage stats on a top 25 team.

He has the ability to finish in traffic, go by defenders and defend both gaurd positions. His outside shooting, while not consistent, is technically sound. He has a ton of potential. He just got done with his workout here in Sac on Thursday and according to reports, he blew them away. They think he could be available a couple spots lower then 4, thus they may trade down. GM’s are not biased. They like to keep their jobs, and that is why he is being discussed as a lottery pick.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

reguardless what these gms scouts or whatever say im not gonna be convinced by a workout when you are being guarded by no one or 2 on 2’s..the game is played 5 on 5 so untill i hear him blowing scouts away with 5 on 5 workouts i just wont be convinced..and his stats arent garbage but they dont scream ” im a future superstar or have super star potenial either..from everything he showed in his one year he looks like he will be a basic good player in the nba..he didnt show any superstar potential

[llperez]

“potential” and taking over games or having good stats are 2 different things. You say you watched most of his games at UCLA, so let me ask you a couple questions and you tell me if you agree or not.

Does he have good size for a PG?
Does he have good athleticism for a pg?
Did he display strong finishing skills around the basket at UCLA?
Do his outside shooting mechanics look good?
Did he play sound defense at UCLA?
Does he have soild ball handling skills?
If he were to come back to college for another year, would you expect him to be a much better player?

If you answer no to any of these questions, then I guess we could just end this with we don’t agree on how good he is and leave it at that. Only time will tell for sure what he is capable of in the NBA.

[NBATalk20098Participant]

Jrue Holiday is going to be nba star

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

i actually agree with those things but… im not like alot of peopel who say..he has the potential to be a super star if the player doesnt show me…a potential super star at leats dominates one game in which you say ” he just showed what hes capable of doing on a nightly bases..and i can answer yes to a couple of those questions for a couple of players and i can also answer no to a couple those questions with all those questions i cant answer yes to him being great at any of those things..just average to good..thats just doesnt trasnlate to superstar to me…my point is show me this great potenial and i will be convinced but im not gonna be convinced liek most cuz of what he did in highschool or because of what other people have said about him…two players i can say yes to those questions are danel hackett and greives vasquez does that mean they are gonna be superstars..nope just say they can do those things and have good size

[llperez]

are gonna compare the potential of either Hacket or Vasquez to Holiday, then you really don’t know how to evaluate young players. I’ve seen plaenty of players take over college games, and I thought, there’s no way that guy is gonna do anything in the league. I’ve also seen guys do very little in college and felt that they were gonna be studs at the next level. Remember, we are talking about a teenager who was not given the keys to his own team as a freshmen. He played alongside seniors like Collison, Shipp, and Aboya who were the leaders of that team. If he came back another year, it would be his team to take over. And you better believe scouts take that stuff into consideration. That is why it is called drafting a guy based on “potential”. We disagree, it’s cool. Later.

[ohsxcParticipant]

He had a whole season to do something! How can he produce in the NBA? Did Coach Howland completely keep the harness on him?

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

like i said hes shown no great potential just showe he might be a “good” nba player..once he shows me proof then ill believe

[bryant markson1]

i agree with ya on that..he showed zero superstar potential while at ucla..i think alot of people are just biased because i promise you if they never had heard of him in highschool then watched every game he played this year( like i did) then they wouldnt talk about him being a future star….josh you said you play proball in europe ..where did you play at?..i played in isreal this year

[sheltwon3Participant]

I have not watched Holiday play much but I kind of see his potential and I am not sold on UCLA point guards. I know he plays good D, he has great size and in high school he could run a team. He was not able to show that in college. If he is showing that in drills then he should be a high pick. Only thing that seems to make people worry is he is not as athletic as Westbrook but they seem to believe he could be just as great.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

lol..you bum sauce..its kurtis…yall looked bad this year..we ended up winning it all

[janthemanParticipant]

Hey Sheltwon… Did you really say that you’re not sold on UCLA point guards? Baron Davis. Earl Watson. Jordan Farmar. Russell Westbrook… Soon to be joined by Darren Collison and Jrue Holiday. I would reconsider your position on the UCLA points.

Let the record show that this UCLA fan is not hyping Jrue Holiday. In terms of his development, it’s my opinion that he should return for his sophomore year. In terms of his payday, it’s clear that he should go pro… and he likely will go pro.

To answer the questions from above:

Does he have good size for a PG? YES.
Does he have good athleticism for a pg? BARELY. HE’S DOESN’T HAVE COLLISON’S SPEED OR WESTBROOK’S JUMPING ABILITY, BUT HE’S STILL ATHLETIC.
Did he display strong finishing skills around the basket at UCLA? SOMETIMES. HE OCCASIONALLY WOULD MAKE A NICE MOVE TO BASKET… BUT HE’D TURN THE BALL OVER OR MISS THE EASY LAYUP JUST AS OFTEN. HIS MOST COMMON MOVE WAS A BEAUTIFUL MOVE TO THE HOLE TO THEN MISS THE LAYUP.
Do his outside shooting mechanics look good? BEAUTIFUL SHOOTING STROKE. (MIXED RESULTS, BUT ALWAYS LOOKED GOOD)
Did he play sound defense at UCLA? SOMETIMES. HE WAS BENCHED A FEW TIMES AND REPLACED BY MALCOLM LEE (ANOTHER FRESHMAN).
Does he have soild ball handling skills? DEFINITELY.
If he were to come back to college for another year, would you expect him to be a much better player? DEFINITELY… BUT PROBABLY WOULDN’T GET DRAFTED AS HIGH.

Jrue Holiday may turn out to be a great pro, and I’m rooting for him. But unless he comes back, he’ll always go down as a disappointment as a Bruin… and if I was a GM, I wouldn’t bet on him.

[NBATalk20098Participant]

because he got skill

[Scott42444Participant]

I cannot think of one point guard in the league who would fit the criteria of being average in college and then going on to be even an all-star point guard.

The only one that I can make a real case for is maybe Jamal Crawford. He didn’t exactly light it up in college, but that’s partially because he was suspended I think. I’m not really sure, all I really know is that when the Bulls drafted him I wasn’t like, “Oh sweet! Jamal Crawford had this one game where he did this sick cross over and then put up 30 and….” I didn’t really know what he was all about but I was excited that we were drafting a big point guard since we were still running the triangle offense then and he was a good fit. He’s not even really a point guard though, he’s more of a SG.

Mo Williams maybe? A guy who wasn’t a star coming out of college at the point and went on to be a top PG in the NBA?

Skip to my Lou? He’s doing pretty well for the Magic, did he have a good college career? Of course, I don’t know if I would waste a Top 10 draft pick on Rafer right now, let alone someone who might be similar.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

naw jamal did work in college ..and that sounded like a better assesment of jru not biased like llprez..and i agree if he went back he wouldnt get drafted as high because hed be even more exposed plus next years class is deeper and i cant blame him for taking the millions

[llperez]

I’m pretty sure we covered everything, but since you are calling me out as being biased, I have to correct you. True I am a Bruin fan and I root for all the Bruins to suceed. But I am very reasonable in my assesments of the players. If I did’nt think a Bruin would translate well to the NBA, I would be the first to call him out for it. I don’t particulary care for Holliday as a Bruin because, I have already said, I think he underachieved and should have come back another year. I have never said that he would be great or anything, only that he has more potential then a lot of other more proven players in this draft ,and thus, should be a top 10 pick. Who knows if he lives up to it or not. I believe all my arguments have been reasonable and unbiased. You on the other hand, have made some crazy arguments about how Holliday should have been able to succeed despite playing out of position because guys like Kobe and Ray Allen can do it. You also compare him with guys who are seniors who have had many more years to develop.

[ghostfaceParticipant]

I agree, I don’t see what all the hype is about him. I watched him play during some UCLA games and I’m just not seeing it. He plays good defense and thats really all I saw. I’m not sure I would even take him in the first round. I would only take him if I needed solid backup guard.

The excuses I’ve heard is that he wasn’t playing full time point because of Collison. Why would you use a lottery pick on him when you haven’t even seen him play point at the collegiate level? I’ve also heard that he was slowed down by Howland’s half court offense. Most of the teams in the NBA play more of a half court as opposed to up tempo.

NBA scouts and GM’s are saying that he’s looked great in workouts. What exactly do these draft workouts consist of? Do they include 5 on 5 games? If they’re drafting players based on drills then they’re even dumber than I thought.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

Your Question: “Why would you use a lottery pick on him when you haven’t even seen him play point at the collegiate level?”

Answer to Your Question: Russell Westbrook

[ghostfaceParticipant]

You make a good point, but if Westbrook can thrive in Howland’s offense and play well with Collison, why can’t Jrue?

Westbrook showed the ability in college to play great against the best teams, especially in the NCAA tournament. I never saw Jrue play at the level that Westbrook did.

I’m not trying to criticize Jrue here. If he’s a guaranteed lottery pick, he should go pro. I just think it’s quite a gamble to take him so high.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

Westbrook didn’t “thrive” in Howland’s offense until his Soph Yr. freshman Russ didn’t hold a candle to Jrue.

Also, Westbrook didn’t exactly thrive alongside Collison, most of his best games came early in the year when Collison was out and Russ was the starting PG (besides the memphis game when he was just unconscious~ probably the best game of his career besides his NBA triple double)

As far as I know Jrue didn’t get to start ~10 games in a row at PG last year

[iverson3Participant]

I think it is a gamble to take him too high, because then your expectations will be set higher and I don’t know how high he will ultimately reach as a player. If he is picked in say the top 10, then someone must’ve really liked what they saw in his workouts (which I am obviously not privy to.)

I think the point regarding Westbrook is good, although others have some good counters too, especially if you were to only compare their freshman seasons. But look at Westbrook’s draft position- he ended up being drafted higher than where Jrue will go (and his stock also rose dramatically leading up to the draft.)

The thing about Jrue is that no one will be drafting him to play SG, he is purely a PG whereas the jury still seems out on Westbrook (if OKC is really seriously considering Rubio.) Westbrook is also a better athlete than Jrue, which I think gave him an advantage playing out of position (sort of) at UCLA.

Jrue is not un-athletic, but he’s no gazelle-type with perfect basketball body. But that matters less at the PG position than that he is athletic enough, to go along with PG skills (and his size). If his defensive skills were criticized, then all bets would be off as he’d be a riskier pick. But he seems to have a lot of the ‘safe’ attributes than NBA GM’s want.

All of this is more or less an attempt not to justify a super-high draft selection, but to try to understand why he has become a first-round lock (and the guy who played ahead of him is not.) I don’t know that I’d pick Jrue at 6 or 7, but if I was sitting at 15 to 20 and I don’t really have a permanent PG, then I would jump on him and then focus on coaching him well to catch him up to speed (to make up for lack of prime-time college experience.) Your other big man prospects by that point probably have a lot more holes in their game than Jrue.

For some reason I just have this feeling about him that he will come out of the gate faster than most inexperienced college PG’s, that he has the court presence to do pretty well. Just as a random example, he will be much better than say Keyon Dooling, who came out early and had a better college career than Jrue and was picked at #10. Dooling just doesn’t have the PG ability despite some other nice attributes, I think Jrue does/will.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

Josh. First of all, get a life besides ragging on Jrue.

Let’s start with the people playing different positions…. SG and SF are MUCH more closely related than PG and SG. On many teams the positions are INTERCHANGEABLE.

The comment about D Rose being able to play SG is just stupid. Maybe he could have played SG at Memphis because of the drive and kick offense (they basically had 5 INTERCHANGEABLE parts) but if you put D Rose on UCLA with Darren Collison (and Howland) I’d bet Rose would have a simliar type of season as the one Jrue just had. D Rose would have probably fared better (because he’s ridiculous, but no one is saying Jrue is D Rose) but he most definitely would not have shined as he did at Memphis. I’d bet that his biggest impact would have been felt on the defensive end… sounds like Jrue Holiday to me…. Jrue was guarding the best player on the other team most nights and that says a lot about the freshman.

enough of that. stop comparing Jrue to Kobe, Ray and D Rose, that’s just unfair. Jrue is a 6’4 PG with good handles, quickness, passing, defense, wingspan and a GREAT head on his shoulders. He plays the game the right way, he didn’t complain last year when he wasn’t getting what he wanted and he played his role on the team, granted that role didn’t maximize his value.

I think if you put the ball in Jrue’s hands he will do good things. He’s a playmaker, not a scorer. This is a stretch, but I see a lot of Chauncey in him……… Good size, good defense, good demeanor, good decision making. It took Chauncey some time to be a consistent scorer but with time, he became a BALLER!

Jrue is solid all-around, he’s a high-basketball-iq 6’4 PG and with a little more work on his shot and the ball in his hands I think he will be lethal. For now he’s a solid role-player who plays good defense, is unselfish, and does what’s best for his team.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

like i said before if someone is suppossed to be a future super star SHOW ME THE POTENTIAL..dont make excuses about ..if this or its the system..you can say IF rose was at ucla garbage all you want but heres the thing….he wasnt ..when i hear potenial i wanna see it at least one game where you take over..and because i talk about wanting to see it and disagree with youre opnion i dont have a life??…so basically anyone that writes on this fourm has no life or if they ask to see this super star potential before jumping on the band wagon has no life???….like i said before from what he has SHOWN he doesnt project as a super star..more like a basic solid player

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

it just sounds to me like you’ve been debating this to a bloody pulp, and not just in this forum.

When the ball is in DC’s hands 70% of the time it’s very difficult to show much more than flashes of brilliance and i think that there were definitely times when Jrue showed his passing wizardry, though he never DOMINATED a game, because even if he did something special one time down the court, the ball was going to be back in DCs hands next possession.

There were definitely times that Nikola Dragovic DOMINATED the game with his 3-point shooting, so do you think he’s a better prospect than Jrue?

I, unfortunately, live in WI so I didn’t really get to see too many of Jrue’s games. At least one flash of his brilliance was a left-handed dunk, can’t remember against who, and afterwards he just flexed his muscles and screamed. you could see in his body language that he was thinking, “I COULD HAVE BEEN DOING THIS ALL YEAR LONG” and just the frustration of not playing a position that maximizes his skills… and still, he never complained and always played hard.

defense will be his specialty at first in the NBA, give his offense a chance to catch up.

[IowaAJParticipant]

He played the 2 guard for UCLA when he is a pass first point guard that is why he struggled in college and didn’t show his playing ability. I think he will shoot up the draft boards and will be a top 10 pick because of his size and ability to pass and not be a selfish scorer type of player. He is also a great defender.

[bryant markson1]

big ucla fan and the best assessment ive seen on all these jru chat fourms has been ghostface’s by far even though im gonna root for ucla im still gonna be honest about its players and ive noticed alot of fans arent really honest about the players..if it was up to most fans the starting 5 would all get drafted and most dont list the cons of a player just the pros….im also a tru believer in the show me system ..just like when shavlik randolph came to duke hyped up and the other kid who played pf for thim with the bounce..i can remeber his name right now but i think portland drafted him..both wehere first team all americans but when they got to college they didnt show the super star potential bestowed on them in highschool..with potenial superstars they have at least showed that potenial a couple time to let you know they could be dominate reguardless where they play or the system they are in.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

he doesnt have the physical gifts that westbrook has

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

he’s not as quick as russell, but i think he has the rest of russell’s physical gifts. He’s a better passer and shooter, and i think he will make better decisions than russell.

i’m not trying to say Jrue is Russell, i’m just saying, that’s an example of why you draft a lottery pick even when you haven’t see them play the position.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

Josh,

who do you think is a better prospect between DC and Jrue?

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

id say dru because of his height…see my thing is i cant see it youre way because he hasnt shown me the superstar potential reguardless of the system or coach or what ever other excuses..does it make since for me to jump on the bandwagon of a player that hasnt shown me this superstar potential?..would you buy a stock if it showed you no potential of growth , all it showed you were average things but a regular stock brocker keeps telling you to buy because they know of the potential it has?

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

“would you buy a stock if it showed you no potential of growth , all it showed you were average things but a regular stock brocker keeps telling you to buy because they know of the potential it has?”

no.

but if you can’t see that Jrue has potential of growth… than I don’t really care what you have to say.

That’s like saying don’t buy stock in Toyota because they posted losses last year… it’s about the environment surrounding the stock. All of a sudden Toyota’s a shitty company because they had a bad year? No. The economy was a piece of crap- I’m sure they’ll adjust and succeed in a better situation (if that ever comes)

The thing about Jrue is that we KNOW that he will be put in a better situation because the person that drafts him will know that he’s no superstar SG, but that in the right situation he will be able to succeed.

[GreenLanternParticipant]

Any GM would be foolish to draft Holiday higher than 10, but I think it’s gonna turn out that way.

[QHaynes123]

GM would be smart to take a chance on Holiday

[GreenLanternParticipant]

Where do you see Holiday being taken Q?

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

i wouldnt take a chance unless he showed me that superstar potential

[QHaynes123]

I have holiday going 6 to minnesota…

[GreenLanternParticipant]

Q, I can actually stomach Jrue going 6 this year…

[bryant markson1]

after watching him all season im just not buying him being a superstar..a regular starter ( a stretch) but not a superstar by any means. i cant even say maybe a allstar because that woul dmean he would have to be the second best pg in either the east or the west meaning over either rondo,paul,devin,rose,westbrook,brooks maybe, possibly rubio.

[QHaynes123]

I see Holiday going to as high as 4 and as low as 14.

He does have skill. Many GM’s are sayin’ (my bro works in a florida gym where they scout NBA talent) that he would have been a star at UCLA if he played PG. He is a good slasher and could be great.

Trust me…he has the Superstar upside he just need time becuase he lost at year at UCLA playing SG when he projects as a PG in the next level

I think he reminds me of a Billups type player.

[GreenLanternParticipant]

I’ll take your word for it because I’m hearing too much about this guy’s basketball tools and IQ. Ben Howland is a good coach, but may not be a good a developer of talent btw.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

wow billups?..i dont see it..i watched every game billups played in college and some in highschool and in no way do those players play alike

[QHaynes123]

he has qualites. He could be a good Billups-Like PG…

[bryant markson1]

i think height wise i would say but holiday seems to have a hard time finishing when he drives alot more then billups..and he turn the ball over a lil too much for a shooting guard whos suppossed to be a point guard..and even though he is suppossed to be a pg his fg and 3pt percentage shouldnt have been as bad as it was

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

could be but i cant take anyones word about any player..i have to see things for myself before i can decide..thats half the reason why i havent jumped on the rubio bandwagon even though ive seen his games in spain

[QHaynes123]

Trust me….alot of teams are feeling him…I actually think a team will take him and not throw him into the wolves. Also His D will get him on the court.

[iverson3Participant]

He was highly touted and could’ve turned pro after HS if it was still allowed. NBA scouts like his size since he is a true PG and a pretty good scorer to boot.

No one was going to supplant Collison his senior year, I think NBA people realize this. So you basically discount his UCLA statistics and work with what else you have. I think he’s a very solid pick in mid to late first round, but someone will probably reach a bit. I don’t think you draft him counting on him being a star, but you can at least count on him being a solid NBA point guard. Ultimately the height makes a difference here- if he was 5’10” we wouldn’t be having this discussion, he’d be starting for UCLA next year.

He didn’t set the NCAA on fire last year, but neither did Rubio or Jennings. I’m not saying their years were equal, just saying that Holiday also had some extenuating circumstances.

[bryant markson1]

i have noticed alot of people are getting high on him after work outs but i gotta say these work outs dont test what you are gonna do in the game from the workouts i went to after i graduated…for one you are doing a bunch of drills…at most youre gonna play a 3 on 3 but usually its 2 on 2 or one on none..so if you happen to be a great workout player you can fool teams into drafting you…another thing is if youre projected as a high lotto pic you will be working out against either guys who will be going overseas or maybe second round..it has nothing to do with being scared but more to do with the agent being smart and not letting the possiblility of you being out played by a lower draft pick which is another reason why players skip the predraft camp. alot of these coaches gms get a rude awaking after they draft these players and they are in a 5 on 5 setting and they arent making these same shots that they were making when working out alone or in a 2 on 2..another thing they cant really judge is a players passing ability because its not 5 on 5 with more defenders trying to stop youre passes…theres also alot of players who show to be pretty good athletes in these settings but it doesnt translate into a game because they have defenders go jump against..im sure we all have seen guys shot in the gym or dunk in warm ups and think man this guymust be real good but when game time comes thoses same shots arent falling or that person isnt dunking on anyone..basically alot of people can come away looking like hall of famers in workouts like a kwame brown,adam morrison or j.j reddick but end up being a basic player in the nba…another thing is that you must also consider even thoug a player might be good at this or that how good will he be doing this or that when being checked by deron williams or chris paul or a rondo

[QHaynes123]

check out my mock http://www.nbadraft.net/node/5964

Yea if he was 5-10, he would not be a top 10 pick. But hes not. Holiday is highly touted and he went to a system where he didnt fit as a SG. If he played off the bench as a PG, he would have been a top 5 pick.

Alot of teams look at potential…

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/north-carolina/24-marvin-williams

[iverson3Participant]

The funny thing is that I think a lot of NBA teams will view him as a relatively safe pick in the mid 1st round (funny because of all the controversy about him not starting at UCLA):

1 .He’s got a good all-around game without major weaknesses.
2. He is complimented for his defense.
3. He’s tall, which gives him advantages at defense and overall court vision.
4. He seems like he got a solid enough head to play NBA point, which requires vision/intelligence but not quite on the level of say an NFL QB.

So considering the above, I think with proper coaching the worst case scenario is that he becomes a solid NBA point guard. Which you are very happy to get if you pick him in the mid to later first round, right? Thus, people are talking him up into the late lottery range.

I don’t know what his upside will be, I don’t think he has quite the athletic ability to become a dominant NBA player. But he really shouldn’t wash out either.

[Scott42444Participant]

QHaynes123, I agree with you on the Marvin Williams point as well. It seems that I agree with you on the means, but not on the end. Look, I know that this is common knowledge, but every guy that John Paxson has drafted on the Bulls weren’t high potential players except for Tyrus Thomas. Sorry, I am just most familiar with the Bulls so that’s why I always use them as an example. But, even Tyrus Thomas reached the Final Four just like every other significant pick of the Paxson regime. Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Duhon, Tyrus Thomas, Noah, Rose, all were at least in the Final Four. Even Aaron Gray made the Sweet 16. Not only that, but each one of these players were standouts on their championship caliber teams. Now, the Bulls didn’t win a championship, but they did have 3 straight playoff appearances without an all-star on the team. Then, like most NBA teams, they got lucky by drafting a superstar and everything else they have done is moot but that’s beside the point.

My point is, taking a guy based on potential at PG that proved NOTHING at the college level is risky because if this guy takes 3 – 4 years to break into the Top 10 PG’s of the league, his contract is up and you might just lose him anyway. It’s like you are the Clippers of the 1990’s (well, the Clippers of always) or the old Montreal Expos. You are a minor league team who just PAID to develop someone else’s All-Star. Of course, Marvin Williams did succeed on a successful college team and he turned out to be a bust. But, would anyone else in the league except for maybe Michael Jordan’s Bobcats have taken him 2nd overall? Anyway, I think that guys like Marvin Williams illustrate that point more than anything. It has come back to bite GM’s in the ass too many times in the last 15 years because so many people are coming into the league under-prepared.

I also would love to see a guy like BJ Mullins get drafted by the Bulls 26th and become the top tier caliber player that everyone thought he was going to be (didn’t this site have him going #1 or #2 overall at this time last year!?!?!?), but that happens about 0.01% of the time. God, Mullins, what a bust.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

yeah thats why alot of teams make bad draft choices

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

i look at some of these guys picked off of that potenial and then i look at the players they could of had and think how dumb some not all of them are. even before chris paul became a superstar pretty much most people knew atlanta should have picked him because they needed a pg and they already had fowards

[QHaynes123]

Thank you…. i think if you give him a good coach…he will Be good

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

i can agree with madmax assessment

[bryant markson1]

yeah..alot better then the he will be a superstar comments i have seen

[QHaynes123]

He played 2 seasons at UCLA and he wasnt a high recuit….he had no pressure…he just got better in time.

[QHaynes123]

thats all if took for westbrook…..10 games

Your telling me you would take a good PG if they played 10 games as PG in college? No but OKC took a chance of him because he has good size, exellent D and he played PG. And they came from the same system.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

I was just responding to a comment about how Russell thrived… and just making the point that Jrue never got the chance to thrive or to get into any rhythm as a PG, his natural position.

I think that if Jrue would have gotten that opportunity there would be a lot less doubters because they would have seen his abilities as a true PG. I think that some guys are just much more effective and comfortable with the ball in their hands

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

the thing is he only played one year so you cant compare it to toyota because you can judge toyota by other years but cant jude jru by anything but that one year….and thats based on superstar potential not regular or good player potential..when did jru show superstar potential xbadger and ill gladly check out the game and see

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

There’s more to basketball than superstars… if your point is only that you don’t think that he has any superstar potential- sorry that we had this discussion. NBA superstars are high volume scorers like Gilbert Arenas or Baron Davis…. But, if I was going to put money on who would win more NBA championships out of Gil, Baron, and Jrue I’d put my money with Jrue…..

that arguments not even that strong since those guys are chronically banged up and old….

Take OJ Mayo though, he’s going to be/already is a superstar, but I wouldn’t bet money that he’d win a championship…. unless he starts to figure out how to make ppl around him better. I think Jrue is a good pick who will definitely contribute to a winning organization, even if he’s selected in the high lottery.

GMs work to build championships… or at least they should.

[bryant markson1]

i saw every game ucla played( except the arizonia game) and i must say he never showed any SUPERSTAR potenial…he did show potenial good nba player though..but no allstar or superstar potenial

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

wait a min….westbrook plays pg in the nba but played sg in at ucla with the same system and better players around him correct?

[QHaynes123]

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_mock_drafts/25013- check it out and post

[bryant markson1]

i just realized that youre using youre brothers name.josh…did he decide if hes going to carolina or duke?

[uncfan23]

whos youre brother? he play football or basketball?..i recall in a different fourm u saying you play or played and i wonder if thats tru or not because alot of people come on here claiming to be someone else

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

superstars arent just high volume scorers they are very very good players..micheal redd isnt a super star yet hes a high volume score ..thats the worst definition of a super star i have ever heard…baron davis isnt a super star…are u serious????..and jru hasnt even shown allstar potenial..like i said tell me which game hes shown this and ill check it out……and to uncfan my name is kurtis rice went to charlston southern and played this year in finland..my brother is josh huestis hes a jr in highschool in montana and he actually will probably decide on carolina or arizona

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

i said baron is a superstar…

and michael redd still gets paid superstar money… but his team sucks…. correlation?

i’d bet money on Jrue winning a championship over redd too.

Kurtis, I guess, define superstar.

[bryant markson1]

wait did he really say baron davis is a superstar?…..and as far as winning a championship its about team if you put jru on the wizards they will not make the playoffs nor if you put jru on golden state the year they made it…plus jru will not i repeat WILL NOT be as good as either of those players when they were healthy and at there best..you really think if a healthy gilbert and a healthy baron davis was in this years draft that jru would get picked ahead of either??

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

baron is definitely a superstar… in my book

and not necessarily saying he’ll make the playoffs in his first year… but i truly believe that Jrue is a winner who will do whatever it takes to win, a la tayshaun, battier, posey

baron most certainly would not have been picked behind Jrue… Gil, probably… he’s like 6’1… Jrue is 6’4… isn’t that all GMs look at? 😉

I think Jrue would be a GREAT fit in Golden State…. he can matchup with 2’s so Monta doesn’t have to, but he can also run the point on offense, again, so Monta doesn’t have to. I don’t think the same is true for the Wiz, Gil needs the ball too much.

[uncfan23]

baron davis is not a superstar and if jru is thought to lead a team to a nba championship then i would think he would be the number one pick or at least the number one pg picked…i liek jru as much as the next guy but i dont see him leading a team to the nba championship..he may one day be part of a championship team but not leading one. i have a question though that i guess is like josh..when has he shown that he will lead a nba team to a championship or even shown that he will be better then baron or gilbert? and just because you get superstar money doesnt make you a superstar..it just means a team overpayed for you..its just like a player getting drafted higher then you..it doesnt mean they are a better player

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

“liek jru as much as the next guy but i dont see him leading a team to the nba championship”

besides griffin, name one person in this draft who will LEAD a team to an NBA championship.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

a superstar is a player who can dominate a game as well as make other players bettereither dominate by getting alot of assists blocks rebounds points…jru doesnt have the make up to dominate a game in any of thoses catagories..he has the make up to do well in some of them but not dominate. he hasnt shown the potenial of any of the superstars in the leauge not once he never dominated in one game in points rebounds assists blocks steals anything…he also didnt show that he can adapt to different systems other then the system he had in highschool. and that ucla system is a halfcourt system as a couple ucla people has pointed out which is run by alot of nba teams

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

Kurtis, the point (no pun intended) is that JRUE IS A PG… PGs generally dominate the game with their assists…. JRUE DIDN’T PLAY PG AT UCLA……

HE NEVER DOMINATED IN ASSISTS AT UCLA BECAUSE DC PLAYED PG

HE DIDNT SHOW HE COULD ADAPT TO A NEW SYSTEM BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO ADAPT TO A NEW POSITION

[bryant markson1]

lol..you really think his height matters if baron davis is on the board in the draft..yeah they look at height but if a player is better then they will select that player instead because hes better…josh why you even arguing with this guy..its obvious that hes in love with jru and in his eyes jru can do no wrong…im a big ucla game and i watched the same jru as other ucla and even though i think he will be a good nba player theres no way id take him over baron or gilbert..i wouldnt take him over…d harris, c paul, deron williams, rondo, rose, rubio..i wouldnt even take him over wall and im not even a big fan of walls…does anyone else have a unbiased opinion because its obvious that his is very biased

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

first of all Gil was a 2nd round pick….and i said GMs would have taken Baron AHEAD of Jrue.

never said i would take jrue over either of these guys, i’m just saying neither really has a chance to win a championship because they play to make money, not to win games.

i wouldn’t take jrue over any of the guys bryant mentioned either… never said that.

only time will tell with Jrue. I hope he proves all you folks wrong

[uncfan23]

youre not the first person to notice his biased opnion towards jru…the most acurate assessment ive seen on here about jru was madmax

[iverson3Participant]

I think he ran that UCLA offense fine though, when he was actually playing PG. Playing SG is not really playing to his strengths, nor will it be his NBA position.

Of course he didn’t get that much time actually running the point, and of that time I watched even less of it.

I don’t know what kind of stats he would have averaged at PG with starter’s minutes. But the more telling result would have been UCLA’s record with Holiday vs. with Collison. I am somewhat torn between which would have done better as full-time starter. Holiday is more dynamic, but Collison was a 4-year starter and a good college PG in his own right.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

if he was a better pg then jru would have played the point more than dc…i remeber when dee brown and deron was at ill..even though dee was shorter and started out as the pg deron got moved to the pg position because he was a better pg and beat out dee….or they would alternate them at the pg postition because of how good deron was…i didnt see that at ucla…and jru didnt even dominate in assist at the highschool level so where are you getting he could have dominated in assists?..plus if youre a good passer you dont have to play pg to rack up assists…did jru even have one 10assist game?

[janthemanParticipant]

After reading all of the comments, the one thing that jumped out at me was that somebody wrote that Ben Howland doesn’t know how to develop talent for the NBA?

Jordan Farmar, Arron Afflalo, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute… Darren Collison will be a solid NBA backup for years and has the potential to step up to be an Aaron Brooks type player. All of these players thrived in Ben Howland’s offensive system and are all turning out to be solid pros. (Yes, Afflalo has been slow to develop on the offensive side of the ball, but he’s solid on defense and still has time to improve his offensive game.)

And if you watch UCLA closely, you would have seen Alfred Aboya go from being a defense-only player to a respectable offensive option for the Bruins this year.

Howland gave Holiday plenty of opportunities to run the point. DC didn’t play every minute of every game. Holiday didn’t thrive because he was tentative and inconsistent. Whether he thrives in the NBA remains to be seen. I honestly don’t have a strong sense of his future… But don’t bash Howland for his lack of success because plenty of players have and will thrive in his offense.

[bryant markson1]

he didnt play pg because darren right now is a better pg then he is.in a couple of years that will change though..jru did a couple of things i liked this year and a couple things i didnt like. i dont think anyone has said hes gonna be a bum, most people on here are saying he should be a good nba player and no one thinks hes gonna be a star/superstar (except xbadger) i dont think he will be a all star for one because i dont see it and two he doesnt have the same potential as at least 4 of the young pg in the nba now who will be allstars soon or are already allstars

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

Somebody show me where i said that Jrue would be a Star or Superstar.

and for the record i hated Jrue when he played at UCLA- he never lived up to my expectations… maybe because he was playing SG

[uncfan23]

i agree jantheman

[bryant markson1]

by the way he isnt 6’4..hes listed at 6’3 so chances are hes either that or 6’2..not that it really matters if his arms end up being long…another thing is he will struggle to denfend player sin the nba at first just like westbrook struggled this year on defense and how rondo( who was the top defensive pg when he was in college) struggled

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

you said you would pick him over baron in the draft. you said baron is a superstar…unless you mean you would pick jru over baron because he fits on a certain team in which case youd probably get fired if you were the gm. portland decided to pick same bowie because he fit better then jordan since they already had clyde…im sure a shooting guard would fit in okc city then a pf since they have jeff green but i bet you if okc had the first pick they wouldnt be thinking ( hey james harden fits with our team so well so wel will pick him over blake because we already have jeff green

[bryant markson1]

yall yall are funny…yall basically are argueing about something yall both agree on…xbader said earlier that jru will be a solid nba player..josh also said jru will be a solid nba player but not a superstar..after josh said he wont be a superstar xbadger starts argueing with him about that even though xbadger never says jru is gonna be a super star

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

i mean i love arguing for argument’s sake and i don’t like to see a kid get bashed cuz he didn’t play his natural position….

and i’m studying for the CPA which is probably the most boring thing ever, and this gives me something to do besides read about partnership agreements and what happens with the assets of a partnership upon dissolution….

i was just making a point about Baron and how NBA loves scorers…….. i would NEVER TAKE Jrue over Baron davis, but i might bet on him winning a championship over baron……. that is alllllllllll

[uncfan23]

lol thats tru they are argueing the same point xbadger seems to take offense to josh saying he hasnt seen the superstar potenial even though xbadger never says jru is gonna be a superstar he argues about it like he thinks he will be a superstar other wise why argue about josh saying he doesnt see jru as a superstar/star

[bryant markson1]

dont get us wrong xbadger…you and josh is what makes chatting on these things so interesting because of yall a bunch of other peopel have come to this disscussion and put there 2 cents in including me…yall are very entertaining..its never fun when you have everyone agreeing on one thing

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

yea lol, all of my posts have been on this thread cuz usually i just read…. but when i started hearing all this garbage about KOBE and RAY being able to shine if they were playing 3 instead of 2 I just had to get an account and say something about that…..

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

lol…yeah i wont go into a room and say anything if everyone is in agreement…B you need to check out the rubio one a couple days ago..we talked about that for about a week..most of the people was on his bandwagon even though all they seen was highlight tapes and they didnt like the fact that i wasnt aboard after being in spain and seeing him play a couple times

[bryant markson1]

i remeber that..i heard tarq gave him the business..you know trajon won the title in russia right?..i might be goign over there and playing wit c bobs team..they dont have a sf

[uncfan23]

ummmm yeah it doesnt matter what position kobe plays and ive seen ray destroy teams while playing the three when paul was hurt most superstars can play more than one position and still dominate

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

he was in austria this past year….they have a site thats like nba.com called eurobasket.com that has all our stats and schedule and stuff up there

[billykParticipant]

Baron Davis is a superstar (he just turns it on and off when he wants to) SEE 2007 playoffs…….

[billykParticipant]

Baron Davis is a superstar (he just turns it on and off when he wants to) SEE 2007 playoffs……….

[Scott42444Participant]

I have always felt that anyone who is going to be more than a role player in the NBA would show something more in college, especially someone who has as many physical talents as Jrue. Of course, if you are drafting to fill a need at 18 – 24 taking a tall, young, pg with skills who plays good defense isn’t a bad bet. But, I thought that this topic was started because all of the sudden people started bringing up Holliday’s name as one of the best possible PG’s based on potential in the draft and all of the sudden he is a Top 10 pick on some mocks.

QHaynes, I think that it was you who said that Holiday has the potential to be a Top 5 PG in the NBA. I am not the kind of person who likes to call people out, and if it wasn’t you I apologize, but that’s ridiculous. I mean, everyone in the first round has the potential to be a Top 5 at their position, so if that’s what you mean than I’m sorry. But, if you think that in 5 years he breaks Top 10 that’s a stretch. Paul (All-Star), Williams (All NBA 2nd Team), Rose (ROY), Rondo (Triple Double AVG in Playoffs 2009), Williams (All-Star), Wall (Potential 2010 #1 Pick), Tony Parker (All-Star, Final MVP), Devin Harris (All-Star). That’s 8 right there who aren’t going anywhere for the next 10 years (maybe Parker might tail off, he’s a little older). That’s not including Westbrook, Conley, Bayless, Farmar, and other young PG’s in the league. Not including Rubio, Steph Curry, Jennings, Flynn, etc. from the 2009 draft and besides Wall, that’s not including anyone else entering the league for the next 5 seasons. That’s just to make the Top 10. I just think that a position like PG is silly to draft on potential if that player hasn’t shown that he can TOUCH that potential against good competition. There isn’t room for 10 PG’s to be drafted every year and have them all be Top 10 in the league.

All this talk about Jrue and Westbrook makes me hate Darren Collison all of a sudden. Whoever takes him in the draft is making the rest of their guards worse! Ha!

[bryant markson1]

superstars have it on all the time…baron davis is a regular star

[QHaynes123]

Yea it was me. I said that but I just thought watching his HS games and him going to UCLA where the code there is Defense : he was not comfortable at SG.

I thought the way he played at UCLA he was more of a PG.

Hey everyone is entitled to thier opinion. We think differently its cool. Ridiculous? Maybe but hey maybe i was wrong. Maybe he’s gonna be a Bust…we will never know

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

actually we will know as this season next and the season after plays out

[Mr. BasketballParticipant]

if u have two all star appearances u are an all-star if u have 5+ u are a superstar. u can’t be “a star.” is someone like lamar odom a star? no. is camby a star? no. ur an all-star+, or ur not.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

durant is a star..

[Scott42444Participant]

I am usually with you on a lot of your points, so I’m sorry if I seem like I’m attacking you here. Plus, I have never seen him play 1 game in high school. Didn’t know that much about him. Saw a few UCLA games, but if it weren’t for this site, I would probably still not know much about him. Could be a stud, we’ll find out soon. You have my full support in giving me an “I told you so Scott, you moron!” if you are right.

Plus, on defense, is he really that good? I mean, I don’t know that much about him, but is he really a great defender right now in terms of the NBA? At 19? If he is then I completely agree he is worth the lottery pick based on great defense/potentially great defense. But if he just has the physical tools and potential to be a great defender in the NBA, like most guys at this stage of their career, I’m not that sold on his “Star” potential. Of course, he’ll probably be a Top 10 pick regardless. Seems like his name is climbing up the mocks.

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

Just had an interview with Jrue. He just seems like a great guy to have on your team….. NOT A SUPER STAR, but definitely a LEADER, which I think is the most important characteristic for a PG, IMO

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

That’s Draft Express Dot Com

nbadraft.net is dumb if they think that the two sites don’t help each other… any hype of the draft drums up interest in all the sites…

[bryant markson1]

i wonder how many prospects look like a leader from a interview..lol..if only he could have LEAD his team in college

[iverson3Participant]

That will always be the thing with JRue- he was not the starting PG and he was not the leader of the team. OTOH he didn’t have a chance, there was a 4-year multiple Final Four starter in Darren Collision, a great college PG.

So ordinarily Jrue would be ‘the guy’ for them next year, play 1 year of good ball and then come out. But now he isn’t going to have to, he can get good 1st round money guaranteed in a month so he’s going to take it and be happy.

Guys like him and Curry have question marks for sure, but they also have assets. Basically it just depends on what position you are picking that justifies selecting them, it’s just not black or white but indeed very gray with these guys. Remember that he was pretty heralded coming out of HS, that has a LOT to do with it. Him or Jennings could’ve been drafted right out of HS (I don’t know exactly where). The circumstances regarding the UCLA roster for me means that he didn’t hurt himself the one year at UCLA, even if he didn’t necessarily help himself either.

I am personally very surprised to see him talked up so high, even though I think he will do fine in the NBA. We’ll see if someone actually reaches for him in the top 10. I would consider anything in the top 10 to be a reach pick, but if he slides down to mid first round then I think he’s a pretty good pick for whoever at that point needs a PG.

[llperez]

Doug Gootlieb has him goin number 3 and Chad Ford has him going 4. I know their opinions don’t mean everything, but they are profeesionals who usually have some inside info. Plus, like I said before, I spend a lot of time in Sac and the radio won’t shut up about him there. I guess he left quite an impression in his workout. I never said he would be anything special at the next level, only that he has more potential then a lot of other guys and thus should go top 10.

[bryant markson1]

with him going that high he has a good probability to be labeled as a bust…. have a career in the relm of joe smith..a good player who just about every team would love to have but not a star or allstar which is what you are suppossed to be as a top3 pick

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

thats true B…A bust but not a bust as far as being a player

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

any body read the predraft thing…holiday has the potenial to be a good role player..is what was said..a coupel of other sites say gm’s are starting to wonder if he can be a full time pg and hes not as quick as they thought

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

First topic? PGs….

Apparently Jrue really shined against most of the other top PGs (Evans and Rubio didn’t participate) and looked like a PF compared to most of the other guys….

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=PreDraftTour-090529

I guess Lawson wasn’t that impressive….

Curry, Flynn, and Maynor were very impressive.

[QHaynes123]

Hoilday is gonna shine…he wants to prove to everybody he is a good PG.

If it wasnt for Ben Howland placing him at the 2

and Collison coming back after Derrick Rose killed him in the Final 4 game, Holiday would have played PG and been a good PG all season at UCLA.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

its not against the point guards its with..they arent going against each other and liek i said before anyone can look great in a WORKOUT

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

wow holiday has bounce..a whopping 34inch max vert..ammmmmmmmmmmazing..lol

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

lol…riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight and thats based on????

[iverson3Participant]

I’m not sure why any scouts thought he was so quick to begin with. He is a pretty big PG even by NBA standards, and should be quick and tenacious enough to defend other PG’s, but quickness won’t ever be his strength.

He has good handles and IMO seems to have pretty good court awareness (from the limited times I saw him run point at UCLA.) His size and relatively long arms (IIRC) will help him in terms of being able to make the basic entry passes, etc. without having to first beat his man. He’s not the Hulk or anything, but he seems pretty solid and won’t ever be muscled out of his space- especially if they work on his strength training. That’s my guess as to how he will fit in physically on an NBA court, and I think other NBA scouts are seeing the same thing.

I think he will be a solid but not spectacular PG in the NBA. My guess or hunch is that he becomes a good starter. He won’t be the reason you win a title or anything, but he won’t keep you from winning one either. I think if you’re in the middle of the first round and need a PG, you’re happy getting that kind of value with your pick. As a lottery pick he’s a reach IMO.

He will be better than Jordan Farmar. I don’t have a very high opinion of Farmar, but Farmar is a good comparison since he was a late first round pick and also a UCLA PG. I think the Lakers are satisfied though with what they got at their draft position- not a great pick, just a solid one. I think the Lakers would trade Farmar for Holiday in one hot second if they could, but the team that drafts Holiday (at whatever spot) won’t want to.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

i doubt if they would..the lakers are more of a show me team and less of a take a player off of potenial unless they show superstar potenial

[iverson3Participant]

They took a calculated risk in Kwame Brown too.

I mean there’s no reason to argue since this is a purely hypothetical scenario anyway, and it depends on one’s opinion of Holiday. But Farmar is a career NBA backup, and Holiday IMO will become more. And the Lakers are going to need someone to step up and be starting PG very, very soon.

[bryant markson1]

big ucla fan and i cant honestly say he will be better because he didnt show any indication that he will be a starting pg or sg in the nba…people are baseing these opnions about him from what they read about in highschool even though he wasnt even a pg in hs either..and on workouts of him dribbiling through cones and shooting against no defense

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

my whole thing about him is SHOW ME..i cant give a good opnion about a guy who showed me no starter superstar ability while in college against better competition then he faced in highschool…now imagin that against nba players where he wont get to develope as quickly…there are so many back up and thrid strings that will eat him alive

[bryant markson1]

thing is he doesnt have marvin williams height nor did he have any games where he showed he can take over like marvin did…plus thi is based on what you think he can do as a pg when he never played pg full time on any level..and that ucla system is the same system most nba teams run ..a star play shows star potenial no matter what system they play in thats what stars do

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

v

[iverson3Participant]

There is no SHOW ME even possible with him, so I completely understand your points.

I didn’t see him in high school, I didn’t see him in workouts running around cones. I’m not even arguing that he’s gonna be great or whatever, or what draft position is justified. I have watched him a bit at UCLA since I’m an alum, and it’s just my prediction or hunch that he will develop into a good (not great or top 5 or whatever) starter in the NBA. All the detractors mostly make sense too, but with all that in my mind that is still my prediction about him. And he will be better than Jordan Farmar (again, that’s not saying much.)

Other people may think he will be a backup at best in the NBA, and some have said he will be a superstar. I think the majority of people don’t really have a strong opinon either way, because he frankly didn’t play enough college ball to give much to go on. I have no idea why some are tabbing him to go lottery either, he doesn’t strike me as being SO athletically gifted.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

I got a chance to talk to a number of the top national recruiting gurus, Dave Telep, Van Coleman, Jerry Meyer, Brick Oettinger, Frank Burlison, Clark Francis, Evan Daniels, Gerry Freitas, Aggrey Sam, Joel Francisco, Patrick Stanwood, and Mark Maggard and get their take on a number of things including this year’s draft.

One of the things I asked a number of them about was two of the bigger mysteries of this year’s NBA draft: Jrue Holiday and Brandon Jennings.

Nearly everyone feels that Holiday is tremendously overrated. Guys like Burlison and Freitas make a living scouting West Coast talent and have seen these guys dozens of times in high school as well as college (Holiday). Burlison mentioned a number of factors including the fact that Holiday was never a point guard in high school (so why should we assume he’s one now?), the notion that he’s an athletic combo like Westbrook (not even close to being a freak athlete, like Westbrook) and the idea that he’s a lock down defender, he’s not (when UCLA played Washington State they had to take him off Klay Thompson because he was giving up too many points).

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

I think there is some confusion about what being a lottery pick in the 2009 NBA Draft requires… NOT MUCH. There aren’t the same amount of stars available in every draft… This year, the question remains, are there 14 people that will be taken ahead of Jrue Holiday, and if there aren’t, he is a lottery pick. JUST BECAUSE YOU’RE A LOTTERY PICK, DOESN’T MEAN THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE A STAR.

It would be a reach to select Jrue in the lottery in past drafts, but the same can’t be said for this draft. If you’re picking 7th and there aren’t anymore potential stars left, what do you do? go for someone solid to add to your rotation…

Someone please make a list of 14 people that they would take over Jrue. My list:

1. Griffin
2. Thabeet
3. Harden
4. Hill
5. Jennings
6. Curry
7. Evans
8. Blair
9 T. Williams
10. Maybe Rubio, haven’t really seen enough of him…

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

my thing is the posters who say hes gonna be a star pg from the get go or period with certainty..yet how can they be so certain when he never played pg in hs rarely in college and was a average college player. after looking at all the evidence im just not gonna draft him over alot of players and alot of people on here would because of what they hear other people say about him…im gonna dismiss most of them now who claimed he was so great as a pg in hs and played out of position when its fact that he played sg/sf in highschool and played the exact position in college that he had played in hs

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

Alright…. one other thing Josh, not every team plays the same offensive system, which I’m sure you know already… so playing SG in one offensive system might make you interchangeable with the PG because you are both just guards (like eddie jordan’s system) and maybe one of you brings the ball up so that makes him the actual “PG” and then there are systems where it’s one PG and two wings… I think the biggest thing for Jrue is that he was off the ball A LOT more at UCLA than he was in HS. I think a lot of what went wrong at UCLA was that he had the ball so fleetingly and he had so much pressure to be a stud that he tried to do too much… then he started losing confidence and it went down the tube from there….

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

so whats gonna happen if hes off the ball alot while in the nba( which he will be)?..and ucla runs the same system most nba teams run…if his confidence went down hill while in college imagin what it will do in the nba where the demand to excell is alot bigger and you are given a even shorter leash???..its not place for a player with average ability to lose confidence

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

What makes you say that he will be off the ball a lot in the NBA?

Any team that drafts Jrue to play off the ball didn’t watch him play at UCLA.

I think that a lot of the confidence issues came from Howland… I donno. I just felt like there was a lot of tension there. I think Howland is really hard on his guys and he was probably hardest on Jrue. it seemed like it wore on Jrue… that and the expectations

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

combo back up guard possible starter in 3 years

[xbadgerhustlerParticipant]

IF sac takes him at 4, whether thats a good pick or not, do you think there’s a chance they start him?

I do.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

nope he hasnt shown he is a better pg right now then what they have there..the only thing you and others can say is hopefulyl he will be able to learn to play the point..he isnt a nba starter right now in any reality jsut because fans want him to be

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