[BogDon_KryptParticipant]

 The guy has potential, no doubt, but in a draft this loaded, I think you take more of a sure thing.  Parker is my number 1, and I would also take Smart and Randle before Embid.  I’d put Embid as the 4th pick.  We all remember Hasheem Thabeet.

[ReekoParticipant]

 Thabeet, and although I don’t know if Embid should go #1, I have never seen Thabeet move that fluidly and with that kind of body control, not in the NBA and especially not as a freshman in college.

[ReekoParticipant]

 Thabeet, and although I don’t know if Embid should go #1, I have never seen Thabeet move that fluidly and with that kind of body control, not in the NBA and especially not as a freshman in college.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 The last top prospect big I saw move that fluidly was Drummond and if he had stayed he would be 1 and 2 with Embiid. 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 The last top prospect big I saw move that fluidly was Drummond and if he had stayed he would be 1 and 2 with Embiid. 

[mbramilanParticipant]

Hasheem thabeet is a bust. Can’t shoot,can’t pass, he can only block.
Embiid has post game,lateral quickness,can block. He is better than thabeet,of course

[mbramilanParticipant]

Hasheem thabeet is a bust. Can’t shoot,can’t pass, he can only block.
Embiid has post game,lateral quickness,can block. He is better than thabeet,of course

[Toronto16Participant]

 Embiid has a a lot of potential, but come draft.net #1??  Wiggins will be a much better pro once he has proper point guards and he has plays run for him.

[Toronto16Participant]

 Embiid has a a lot of potential, but come draft.net #1??  Wiggins will be a much better pro once he has proper point guards and he has plays run for him.

[Jester87Participant]

He’s no Hasheem Thabeet. Not even close. I’m not saying he’s a sure thing, but everyone thought Thabeet was disappointing during his first season. Many considered him a potential one and done player before his freshman season and after a few weeks, but his stock dropped. He eventually had to stay 3 years in college and came out still as a project and was drafted only for his size and potential. He wasn’t as athletic as Embiid and his offensive skills and overall feel for the game were much worse than Embiid’s. And Embiid is only a freshman who started to play the game two years ago. If you just look at their per 40 minutes stats you see the difference: frosh Embiid is averaging 20.4 points, 13.1 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 2.3 steals, 4.4 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 6.9 fouls, shooting 68.3 FG%, with an outstanding 31.1 PER; Thabeet as a junior averaged 17.1 points, 13.6 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 0.8 steals, 5.3 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 3.1 fouls, 64 FG%, 28.9 PER. So Embiid as a freshman is posting better numbers than Thabeet as a junior. Also, most of Thabeet attempts were alley oops or put backs. And Embiid has to share the ball with better teammates.

I used to think he had too bust potential but he has blown me away with his performance of late. I’m pretty convinced he has the higher ceiling in this draft and while it’s true that other players might be safer picks, it’s also true that good wings are available in almost any draft (maybe not as good as Parker or Wiggins, but still very good). A game changing big man with that potential comes really once in a while.

[Jester87Participant]

He’s no Hasheem Thabeet. Not even close. I’m not saying he’s a sure thing, but everyone thought Thabeet was disappointing during his first season. Many considered him a potential one and done player before his freshman season and after a few weeks, but his stock dropped. He eventually had to stay 3 years in college and came out still as a project and was drafted only for his size and potential. He wasn’t as athletic as Embiid and his offensive skills and overall feel for the game were much worse than Embiid’s. And Embiid is only a freshman who started to play the game two years ago. If you just look at their per 40 minutes stats you see the difference: frosh Embiid is averaging 20.4 points, 13.1 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 2.3 steals, 4.4 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 6.9 fouls, shooting 68.3 FG%, with an outstanding 31.1 PER; Thabeet as a junior averaged 17.1 points, 13.6 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 0.8 steals, 5.3 blocks, 2.8 turnovers, 3.1 fouls, 64 FG%, 28.9 PER. So Embiid as a freshman is posting better numbers than Thabeet as a junior. Also, most of Thabeet attempts were alley oops or put backs. And Embiid has to share the ball with better teammates.

I used to think he had too bust potential but he has blown me away with his performance of late. I’m pretty convinced he has the higher ceiling in this draft and while it’s true that other players might be safer picks, it’s also true that good wings are available in almost any draft (maybe not as good as Parker or Wiggins, but still very good). A game changing big man with that potential comes really once in a while.

[mbramilanParticipant]

 I think that jabari parker and wiggins will be 1&2 respectively. Embiid is special, but the third pick is between Embiid and randle

[mbramilanParticipant]

 I think that jabari parker and wiggins will be 1&2 respectively. Embiid is special, but the third pick is between Embiid and randle

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 I see more bust potential in Randle than Embiid.  Randle may or may not develop as a defender and his post game is not as much of a sure thing to translate.  

Centers tend to bust more because of scarcity.  Their stock rises before the draft, but after the season because they fill team needs.  Hence Alex Len and Hasheem Thabeet going top 5, and Meyers Leonard going lottery.  Embiid is different because he is being recognized for his play and production.  He isn’t just a potential pick.  His skill level and feel for the game is advanced, his motor is excellent (always underrated among big man prospects), and he has optimals physical tools.  This should allow him to earn playing time early in his career and he has more potential to be a franchise changing talent than any other prospect in this year’s draft.

I still view Andrew Wiggins as the top pick (for most teams at least), but if Embiid keeps improving at the rate he has been, he could easily become the top pick and not disappoint.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 I see more bust potential in Randle than Embiid.  Randle may or may not develop as a defender and his post game is not as much of a sure thing to translate.  

Centers tend to bust more because of scarcity.  Their stock rises before the draft, but after the season because they fill team needs.  Hence Alex Len and Hasheem Thabeet going top 5, and Meyers Leonard going lottery.  Embiid is different because he is being recognized for his play and production.  He isn’t just a potential pick.  His skill level and feel for the game is advanced, his motor is excellent (always underrated among big man prospects), and he has optimals physical tools.  This should allow him to earn playing time early in his career and he has more potential to be a franchise changing talent than any other prospect in this year’s draft.

I still view Andrew Wiggins as the top pick (for most teams at least), but if Embiid keeps improving at the rate he has been, he could easily become the top pick and not disappoint.

[BloodFoLyfe]

we made bold predictions before the season  and I said neither wiggins or parker will go one . Lets leave bold prediction to be being bold prediction I don’t see him going one the risk factor is to high plus hes not putting up crazy numbers either hes  putting up good numbers and has upside overall good prospect. As I said the risk factor and you cant neglect the hasheem comparison because he was one of the last big shot blockes drafted top 3 and he bust. Got destroyed by blair and I watched Patrick young move embiid! he has so much more to work on like Iq yes he has a few good moves but some of the plays he makes are ridiculous. plus the intensity he brings is so so at time.

 

 <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/cn-dtrmh0nM?hl=en_US&amp;version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/cn-dtrmh0nM?hl=en_US&amp;version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[BloodFoLyfe]

we made bold predictions before the season  and I said neither wiggins or parker will go one . Lets leave bold prediction to be being bold prediction I don’t see him going one the risk factor is to high plus hes not putting up crazy numbers either hes  putting up good numbers and has upside overall good prospect. As I said the risk factor and you cant neglect the hasheem comparison because he was one of the last big shot blockes drafted top 3 and he bust. Got destroyed by blair and I watched Patrick young move embiid! he has so much more to work on like Iq yes he has a few good moves but some of the plays he makes are ridiculous. plus the intensity he brings is so so at time.

 

 <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/cn-dtrmh0nM?hl=en_US&amp;version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/cn-dtrmh0nM?hl=en_US&amp;version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[MUbballfanParticipant]

Embiid is tad risky to take as he is very raw, but his potential is massive, and he is a big. If the Bucks were to trade Larry Sanders and then get the #1 pick I might be ok with them taking Embiid. 

[MUbballfanParticipant]

Embiid is tad risky to take as he is very raw, but his potential is massive, and he is a big. If the Bucks were to trade Larry Sanders and then get the #1 pick I might be ok with them taking Embiid. 

[mbramilanParticipant]

If the bucks have the first pick they have to pick Parker. He’s the perfect fit with giannis, henson and sanders. I don’t think that Embiid fits so well in bucks system

[mbramilanParticipant]

If the bucks have the first pick they have to pick Parker. He’s the perfect fit with giannis, henson and sanders. I don’t think that Embiid fits so well in bucks system

[blood]

 its well known that this site is worst at projecting the mock. Whiteside?!?,DeShawn Stevenson comp was MJ lmfao.There is no fucking way that top 3 wont be Wiggins,Parker,Randle

[blood]

 its well known that this site is worst at projecting the mock. Whiteside?!?,DeShawn Stevenson comp was MJ lmfao.There is no fucking way that top 3 wont be Wiggins,Parker,Randle

[LindseyParticipant]

 When I compare Aran and Givony’s sites over the passed few years it stuck out to me that while Givony may generally be better a predicting the order of the Draft, Aran is better at picking who will be the best players from the class. Which is why my loyalty is to .net . 

[LindseyParticipant]

 When I compare Aran and Givony’s sites over the passed few years it stuck out to me that while Givony may generally be better a predicting the order of the Draft, Aran is better at picking who will be the best players from the class. Which is why my loyalty is to .net . 

[3 No Biases 3Participant]

 I actually agree with this for the most part….

I can almost guarantee it will be Wiggins, Parker, and Randle amongst the top 3 picks and I will keep saying it til it happens.

No way a team will risk picking a Center over those 3 players.  They arent nearly as valuable as they once were and the recent history with drafting centers high will work against Embiid, especially as raw as he is.   

And come on, I like this site as much as anybody but the mock draft is rarely close to the actual draft.

[3 No Biases 3Participant]

 I actually agree with this for the most part….

I can almost guarantee it will be Wiggins, Parker, and Randle amongst the top 3 picks and I will keep saying it til it happens.

No way a team will risk picking a Center over those 3 players.  They arent nearly as valuable as they once were and the recent history with drafting centers high will work against Embiid, especially as raw as he is.   

And come on, I like this site as much as anybody but the mock draft is rarely close to the actual draft.

[JoeWolf1]

.net had Whiteside at 24th, which was less than 10 spots away from where he went. You act like because he was 2 on the board in April he was somehow left there until draft night.

[JoeWolf1]

.net had Whiteside at 24th, which was less than 10 spots away from where he went. You act like because he was 2 on the board in April he was somehow left there until draft night.

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 That awkward moment when someone tries to compare a defensive center to an offensive center…. SMH.. Joel has offense and defense. He may go 1

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 That awkward moment when someone tries to compare a defensive center to an offensive center…. SMH.. Joel has offense and defense. He may go 1

[blood]

 is taliking to me, I wasnt comparing them I was just saying that this site is worst at projecting the draft,They had HASSAN MOTHERFUKKING WHITESIDE NO 1.GUY WENT 45TH OR SUMTHING LIKE THAT.I like Emiid but all of you need to hop of guys dikk..

[NeggedFolyfe]

lol

[NeggedFolyfe]

lol

[blood]

 is taliking to me, I wasnt comparing them I was just saying that this site is worst at projecting the draft,They had HASSAN MOTHERFUKKING WHITESIDE NO 1.GUY WENT 45TH OR SUMTHING LIKE THAT.I like Emiid but all of you need to hop of guys dikk..

[Andrew1984Participant]

I’ve only seen Embid play one game, but it was his best game of the year. He made me think, "This is what Greg Oden looked like before his injuries." I think Drummond was more explosive than Embid and Anthony Davis was far more versatile and refined, but I could see Embid being a very solid interior presence for someone. I don’t think he’ll ever be up there with Dream, Admiral, Dwight, etc., but I could see him developing into something like a healthy Andrew Bynum.

[Andrew1984Participant]

I’ve only seen Embid play one game, but it was his best game of the year. He made me think, "This is what Greg Oden looked like before his injuries." I think Drummond was more explosive than Embid and Anthony Davis was far more versatile and refined, but I could see Embid being a very solid interior presence for someone. I don’t think he’ll ever be up there with Dream, Admiral, Dwight, etc., but I could see him developing into something like a healthy Andrew Bynum.

[jwall1Participant]

 I still think it is too early to pick who should go number 1. If position needs were not relevant, I would take Jabari just because he is as close to a surefire star as a prospect can be. Picks 2-5 would be more complex, and I could see anyone from Wiggins, Smart, Embiid, or Randle being chosen.

[jwall1Participant]

 I still think it is too early to pick who should go number 1. If position needs were not relevant, I would take Jabari just because he is as close to a surefire star as a prospect can be. Picks 2-5 would be more complex, and I could see anyone from Wiggins, Smart, Embiid, or Randle being chosen.

[Ghost01Participant]

 The key point that was brought up and is crucial with big men is this: Who are they playing against? In the NBA, the big men are a lot different than in college. Also, with perimeter players, it is possible for mediocre college teams to find ways to base their defenses around stopping this person, but not as easy when it comes to someone who is 7 feet tall. 

Realistically Embiid has only faced two legitimate top 15 teams this year, Duke and Florida. Against Duke (Who has virtually no big guys) he was very quiet. Against Florida he got abused by Patric Young who is a bench player at the next level at best.

It is so hard to say off a guy making a few nice post moves against 6’7 white guys that he is Kareem 2.0. 

Bottom line is this, Embiid may be good, but god does he have bust potential. You can say whatever you want, the draft has a track record of 7 footers heralded as the next great thing (not even talking about Thabeet) and a vast majority of them have flamed out. 

This is supposedly the best draft in 30 years, and there are two almost 100% sure things, just take one of them. Don’t play these Embiid games. That is how you end up getting fired.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ghost01Participant]

 The key point that was brought up and is crucial with big men is this: Who are they playing against? In the NBA, the big men are a lot different than in college. Also, with perimeter players, it is possible for mediocre college teams to find ways to base their defenses around stopping this person, but not as easy when it comes to someone who is 7 feet tall. 

Realistically Embiid has only faced two legitimate top 15 teams this year, Duke and Florida. Against Duke (Who has virtually no big guys) he was very quiet. Against Florida he got abused by Patric Young who is a bench player at the next level at best.

It is so hard to say off a guy making a few nice post moves against 6’7 white guys that he is Kareem 2.0. 

Bottom line is this, Embiid may be good, but god does he have bust potential. You can say whatever you want, the draft has a track record of 7 footers heralded as the next great thing (not even talking about Thabeet) and a vast majority of them have flamed out. 

This is supposedly the best draft in 30 years, and there are two almost 100% sure things, just take one of them. Don’t play these Embiid games. That is how you end up getting fired.

 

 

 

 

 

[JoeWolf1]

  I think the exciting thing about Embiid is how quickly he is learning. I’ve never seen a big man adjust on a game to game basis as quickly and fluidly as he does. He had a rough patch playing Colorado and Florida back to back, partially due to harder competition and partially due to Kansas’ guards not being able to figure out a zone and as a result he found himself triple teamed due to a sagging zone. The next two games, against 7 footer and 2nd rounder Alex Kirk and boehmith Joshua Smith, he killed them dropping 17.5 ppg 7 rpg 2.5 bpg 2.5 spg on 90% shooting and 77% from the free throw line in only 23 mpg. He learns and adjusts so quickly, I find that very appealing IMO.

There are teams that will pass on him, but I honestly think he should be an option at #1. Parker is the sure thing, Wiggins is the guy who plays the wing with a sky high ceiling, but Joel is different from many 7 footers I’ve seen. I think his free throw 65% is one of the most striking differences (8-10 vs NM and 9-12 vs GTown). He’s been playing two years, and is already out shooting guys who’ve played ten years. He’s fluid with his moves too. Many young guys, when they’re trying something new look like they’re thinking about it. Look no further than Dwight Howard. He’s an excellent NBA center, but he’s clearly robotic and thinking about a new move.

I think Embiid will be a multiple time NBA All-Star, and I also know that depending on the team who lands the pick that he may not go #1, but in my mind he’s at the level of the Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Smart and Exum. He’s in the same teir IMO.

 

[JoeWolf1]

  I think the exciting thing about Embiid is how quickly he is learning. I’ve never seen a big man adjust on a game to game basis as quickly and fluidly as he does. He had a rough patch playing Colorado and Florida back to back, partially due to harder competition and partially due to Kansas’ guards not being able to figure out a zone and as a result he found himself triple teamed due to a sagging zone. The next two games, against 7 footer and 2nd rounder Alex Kirk and boehmith Joshua Smith, he killed them dropping 17.5 ppg 7 rpg 2.5 bpg 2.5 spg on 90% shooting and 77% from the free throw line in only 23 mpg. He learns and adjusts so quickly, I find that very appealing IMO.

There are teams that will pass on him, but I honestly think he should be an option at #1. Parker is the sure thing, Wiggins is the guy who plays the wing with a sky high ceiling, but Joel is different from many 7 footers I’ve seen. I think his free throw 65% is one of the most striking differences (8-10 vs NM and 9-12 vs GTown). He’s been playing two years, and is already out shooting guys who’ve played ten years. He’s fluid with his moves too. Many young guys, when they’re trying something new look like they’re thinking about it. Look no further than Dwight Howard. He’s an excellent NBA center, but he’s clearly robotic and thinking about a new move.

I think Embiid will be a multiple time NBA All-Star, and I also know that depending on the team who lands the pick that he may not go #1, but in my mind he’s at the level of the Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Smart and Exum. He’s in the same teir IMO.

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 I think that Joe Wolf sums it up well, I keep forgetting that Embiid has not even been playing basketball for 3 years and is already being seen as a top 5 guy on most mock boards.

I have not seen enough of the guy yet to give a full judgement on him but if he keeps improving then he could go very high in the draft.

I’ll throw one interesting point in here, Bill Self compared Embiid to Hakeem, that’s not just a comparison from someone on a draft site that was from an NCAA Championship winning coach.

Also on lighter note if we look at the Embiid, Wiggins and Parker upside comparisons who out of Hakeem, Melo and Paul George would you have wanted to draft. I reckon that The Dream would be a unanimous choice!

But there are still 6 months to the draft, the rest of the NCAA season to go so hell of a lot could change.

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 I think that Joe Wolf sums it up well, I keep forgetting that Embiid has not even been playing basketball for 3 years and is already being seen as a top 5 guy on most mock boards.

I have not seen enough of the guy yet to give a full judgement on him but if he keeps improving then he could go very high in the draft.

I’ll throw one interesting point in here, Bill Self compared Embiid to Hakeem, that’s not just a comparison from someone on a draft site that was from an NCAA Championship winning coach.

Also on lighter note if we look at the Embiid, Wiggins and Parker upside comparisons who out of Hakeem, Melo and Paul George would you have wanted to draft. I reckon that The Dream would be a unanimous choice!

But there are still 6 months to the draft, the rest of the NCAA season to go so hell of a lot could change.

 

 

 

[Ghost01Participant]

 Let’s not forget Serge Ibaka. Remember his rookie year, when it was "Oh my god, this guy has been playing basketball for like 2 years and already is this good!" And now, he is entering his prime and the only thing he has added is a mid range jumper and he’s still a 12-9 guy. 

[Ghost01Participant]

 Let’s not forget Serge Ibaka. Remember his rookie year, when it was "Oh my god, this guy has been playing basketball for like 2 years and already is this good!" And now, he is entering his prime and the only thing he has added is a mid range jumper and he’s still a 12-9 guy. 

[JoeWolf1]

To be fair, Serge is a 14.3 and 9 guy on a contender who has lead the league in blocked shots twice, made two NBA All-Defensive 1st teams all before his 25 th birthday. 

[JoeWolf1]

To be fair, Serge is a 14.3 and 9 guy on a contender who has lead the league in blocked shots twice, made two NBA All-Defensive 1st teams all before his 25 th birthday. 

[Ghost01Participant]

 And what happened when Westbrook went out in the playoffs last year? He didn’t raise his game at all, he is a great piece to have but is definitely a "role" player, not a star. 

[Ghost01Participant]

 And what happened when Westbrook went out in the playoffs last year? He didn’t raise his game at all, he is a great piece to have but is definitely a "role" player, not a star. 

[JoeWolf1]

 Serge Ibaka really has nothing to do with Joel Embiid. You can give incorrect stats or nitpick his career all you want, but it doesn’t make Embiid worse. Me defending Ibaka doesn’t make Joel better. They’re different players, different positions even, and their games are vastly different. 

[JoeWolf1]

 Serge Ibaka really has nothing to do with Joel Embiid. You can give incorrect stats or nitpick his career all you want, but it doesn’t make Embiid worse. Me defending Ibaka doesn’t make Joel better. They’re different players, different positions even, and their games are vastly different. 

[Ghost01Participant]

 Oh sorry, I said he was a 12-9 guy but hes a 14.3-9 guy. Oh my god, sorry for giving false stats.

You completely missed the point of the comparison I made with Ibaka, just because you didn’t agree with it.

The relationship the two have it they are both players who did not play basketball until they were already in their mid teens. This is the correlation, and this is the only reason I brought Ibaka up. 

The point was referring to comments that I saw about Ibaka is first couple of years in the league, and the argument that he had a better chance to improve than other players because he hasn’t been playing the game that long is the same one I have seen people make about Embiid.

I am not saying Ibaka hasn’t improved, and I am not saying it means Embiid will or won’t improve to an extent. All I am saying is the hype around Embiid’s potential may not be as valid as some are making it to be. Ibaka has improved like most players do from 19-24, and its been incrimental, not some sudden realization of what the game of basketball is. That’s the only point I made. Sorry for the 2.3 PPG I shorted him, it sure makes him a vastly superior player. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ghost01Participant]

 Oh sorry, I said he was a 12-9 guy but hes a 14.3-9 guy. Oh my god, sorry for giving false stats.

You completely missed the point of the comparison I made with Ibaka, just because you didn’t agree with it.

The relationship the two have it they are both players who did not play basketball until they were already in their mid teens. This is the correlation, and this is the only reason I brought Ibaka up. 

The point was referring to comments that I saw about Ibaka is first couple of years in the league, and the argument that he had a better chance to improve than other players because he hasn’t been playing the game that long is the same one I have seen people make about Embiid.

I am not saying Ibaka hasn’t improved, and I am not saying it means Embiid will or won’t improve to an extent. All I am saying is the hype around Embiid’s potential may not be as valid as some are making it to be. Ibaka has improved like most players do from 19-24, and its been incrimental, not some sudden realization of what the game of basketball is. That’s the only point I made. Sorry for the 2.3 PPG I shorted him, it sure makes him a vastly superior player. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JoeWolf1]

If you’re gonna fudge/not check stats to prove your point, don’t get all defensive when people call you on it. There is literally a picture of a baby Serge Ibaka holding a basketball on his official website. His parents were both basketball players and he had been playing long before he joined an official club.

http://www.sergeibaka.com/descubriendo_a_serge_ibaka/

How can you use him as an example under the pretense that he has only been playing since he was a teen, when he has literally been playing his entire life?

It’s like saying Coach K can’t develop big men while talking about a player that went to North Carolina. It has no relevance.

[JoeWolf1]

If you’re gonna fudge/not check stats to prove your point, don’t get all defensive when people call you on it. There is literally a picture of a baby Serge Ibaka holding a basketball on his official website. His parents were both basketball players and he had been playing long before he joined an official club.

http://www.sergeibaka.com/descubriendo_a_serge_ibaka/

How can you use him as an example under the pretense that he has only been playing since he was a teen, when he has literally been playing his entire life?

It’s like saying Coach K can’t develop big men while talking about a player that went to North Carolina. It has no relevance.

[Ghost01Participant]

Read this article:

http://www.nba.com/thunder/news/incredible_journey_ibaka_091123.html

He spent his life dodging a war, and playing organized basketball wasn’t something you do in the Congo. So if you count shooting around and playing on and off playground ball as playing basketball, then yes, his whole life he’s been playing. Except for the 3 years every current NBA player was playing AAU ball and he was involved in a war.

Ibaka did not play serious basketball until he was 16. That is a fact. Embiid also never played on a basketball team until he was 16. Those are both facts.

My original post which you chose to respond to was mentioning that in my opinion, which I am allowed to have, the thought that Embiid could have some crazy improvement curve due to him not playing until 16 isn’t necessarily true, because Ibaka went through a similar situation and has improved like any other player has. 

The argument that is being made for Embiid was made for Ibaka his rookie season, that his potential is crazy. 

And yes, he has improved and is a fantastic role player currently. One of the best shot blockers in the league, and a solid defender. 

He is not however a superstar, or an All Star for that matter. Last year, Westbrook got hurt in the playoffs, elevating Ibaka to the Thunder’s 2nd best player. In last years playoffs he averaged 12.8 PPG, less than the 13.4 he averaged in the regular season. My second point regarding Ibaka was that he is a role player, and that his level of play did not heighten when the opportunity presented itself. This was the response to "He’s averaging 14.3 and 9 on a contender", as if his stats are lessened by the fact he plays on a good team.

When in fact, the opportunity had arose for him to become their 2nd contributer, and he did not meet the challenge.

I am not painting Ibaka as a bad player, my point was that he was a "crazy potential guy" (like Embiid) and hadn’t played serious ball until he was 16 (like Embiid). Both linear 1 for 1 similarities. Ibaka, has improved nicely, but is a very good role player, and not a star.

If Embiid is going number 1 in this draft, I would certainly hope he is a star since this is supposed to be the best draft in 20+ years. And my main point has nothing to do with what Embiid has done performance wise, but simply if you are infatuated with his potential, there is no evidence he will improve any quicker or any more than Parker or Wiggins will.

That is the point I made. You pointed out that I was 2.3 PPG off on Ibaka’s stats, which I congratulate you for. My second point was dismissing the notion that Ibaka playing on a contender is lessening his statistics. The first has to do with Embiid, the 2nd does not, just a response to the point you were arguing.

How you got on Coach K, I have no idea, but I guess claiming I was making a point I wasn’t making makes sense.

Next time instead of showing stats or actual articles depicting my points, I will do something more relevant like showing a photo of someone holding a basketball. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ghost01Participant]

Read this article:

http://www.nba.com/thunder/news/incredible_journey_ibaka_091123.html

He spent his life dodging a war, and playing organized basketball wasn’t something you do in the Congo. So if you count shooting around and playing on and off playground ball as playing basketball, then yes, his whole life he’s been playing. Except for the 3 years every current NBA player was playing AAU ball and he was involved in a war.

Ibaka did not play serious basketball until he was 16. That is a fact. Embiid also never played on a basketball team until he was 16. Those are both facts.

My original post which you chose to respond to was mentioning that in my opinion, which I am allowed to have, the thought that Embiid could have some crazy improvement curve due to him not playing until 16 isn’t necessarily true, because Ibaka went through a similar situation and has improved like any other player has. 

The argument that is being made for Embiid was made for Ibaka his rookie season, that his potential is crazy. 

And yes, he has improved and is a fantastic role player currently. One of the best shot blockers in the league, and a solid defender. 

He is not however a superstar, or an All Star for that matter. Last year, Westbrook got hurt in the playoffs, elevating Ibaka to the Thunder’s 2nd best player. In last years playoffs he averaged 12.8 PPG, less than the 13.4 he averaged in the regular season. My second point regarding Ibaka was that he is a role player, and that his level of play did not heighten when the opportunity presented itself. This was the response to "He’s averaging 14.3 and 9 on a contender", as if his stats are lessened by the fact he plays on a good team.

When in fact, the opportunity had arose for him to become their 2nd contributer, and he did not meet the challenge.

I am not painting Ibaka as a bad player, my point was that he was a "crazy potential guy" (like Embiid) and hadn’t played serious ball until he was 16 (like Embiid). Both linear 1 for 1 similarities. Ibaka, has improved nicely, but is a very good role player, and not a star.

If Embiid is going number 1 in this draft, I would certainly hope he is a star since this is supposed to be the best draft in 20+ years. And my main point has nothing to do with what Embiid has done performance wise, but simply if you are infatuated with his potential, there is no evidence he will improve any quicker or any more than Parker or Wiggins will.

That is the point I made. You pointed out that I was 2.3 PPG off on Ibaka’s stats, which I congratulate you for. My second point was dismissing the notion that Ibaka playing on a contender is lessening his statistics. The first has to do with Embiid, the 2nd does not, just a response to the point you were arguing.

How you got on Coach K, I have no idea, but I guess claiming I was making a point I wasn’t making makes sense.

Next time instead of showing stats or actual articles depicting my points, I will do something more relevant like showing a photo of someone holding a basketball. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JoeWolf1]

So, you wouldn’t correct me if I were citing incorrect stats you knew to be false? If you get so offended and need to take a sarcastic tone when people correct you, then I’d do a better job of fact checking.

If you want to pretend a son of two high level basketball players who has been around and played the game at an informal level for his whole life before taking up organized ball at 16 is the same as a guy who had been playing volleyball and handball his entire youth before being discovered and convinced to learn the rules and play basketball at 16 is the same thing, then…I strongly disagree.

Ibaka averaged .6 ppg less in the playoffs during his 4th season. Yes. Cool?

Embiid has improved more in the past year than any player in the country. He was a 3 star recruit when KU signed him as a junior and its not all hype. You’re a contrarian, I get it. I find hype annoying too. Wiggins is not Lebron, Shabazz is not Kobe, but Embiid improved EVERY game. No, that’s not a guarantee, but that’s a pretty damn good sign. Next time, don’t get so butt hurt when people call you out for posting incorrect information. I dont care if we disagree. That happens, i agree with you a lot of the time, but if you get so huffy when you get called out, just hit up google for 10 seconds.

[JoeWolf1]

So, you wouldn’t correct me if I were citing incorrect stats you knew to be false? If you get so offended and need to take a sarcastic tone when people correct you, then I’d do a better job of fact checking.

If you want to pretend a son of two high level basketball players who has been around and played the game at an informal level for his whole life before taking up organized ball at 16 is the same as a guy who had been playing volleyball and handball his entire youth before being discovered and convinced to learn the rules and play basketball at 16 is the same thing, then…I strongly disagree.

Ibaka averaged .6 ppg less in the playoffs during his 4th season. Yes. Cool?

Embiid has improved more in the past year than any player in the country. He was a 3 star recruit when KU signed him as a junior and its not all hype. You’re a contrarian, I get it. I find hype annoying too. Wiggins is not Lebron, Shabazz is not Kobe, but Embiid improved EVERY game. No, that’s not a guarantee, but that’s a pretty damn good sign. Next time, don’t get so butt hurt when people call you out for posting incorrect information. I dont care if we disagree. That happens, i agree with you a lot of the time, but if you get so huffy when you get called out, just hit up google for 10 seconds.

[Ghost01Participant]

 I’m the one getting worked up?

All I did is backup the original point I made.

Me giving my opinion of Joel Embiid is not right nor wrong.

Kinda like the OP, who got -14 for saying he thinks Embiid should be 4th overall in a loaded draft all because he ended it with "We all remember Hasheem Thabeet"…this is what happens on this website, opinions are not allowed.

The point of my Ibaka point had nothing to do with the stats, hence why I didn’t google it. Should I have looked them up before typing that? Sure…but the point I was making is he is still a role player, and not a "franchise" player.

Whatever the differences were between Ibaka and Embiids upbringings were are really irrelevant, the point is, players don’t suddenly flip a switch on because they have only been playing ball for 2-3 years. All of these freshmen are 18-19 years old. They all will have the same opportunity to improve. 

The reason I responded to getting called out was because the point itself was missed. Ibaka is a very good basketball player, but he is not a star. And if people think Embiid is going to transform into a star because he has less playing experience than others, I just think there is little evidence supporting that being true. If you believe Embiid is the best prospect based on how he has performed, well that is a different argument completely and a fair one at that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ghost01Participant]

 I’m the one getting worked up?

All I did is backup the original point I made.

Me giving my opinion of Joel Embiid is not right nor wrong.

Kinda like the OP, who got -14 for saying he thinks Embiid should be 4th overall in a loaded draft all because he ended it with "We all remember Hasheem Thabeet"…this is what happens on this website, opinions are not allowed.

The point of my Ibaka point had nothing to do with the stats, hence why I didn’t google it. Should I have looked them up before typing that? Sure…but the point I was making is he is still a role player, and not a "franchise" player.

Whatever the differences were between Ibaka and Embiids upbringings were are really irrelevant, the point is, players don’t suddenly flip a switch on because they have only been playing ball for 2-3 years. All of these freshmen are 18-19 years old. They all will have the same opportunity to improve. 

The reason I responded to getting called out was because the point itself was missed. Ibaka is a very good basketball player, but he is not a star. And if people think Embiid is going to transform into a star because he has less playing experience than others, I just think there is little evidence supporting that being true. If you believe Embiid is the best prospect based on how he has performed, well that is a different argument completely and a fair one at that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JoeWolf1]

And my point and opinion is that Embiid is different. I believe him to be the real deal. I don’t care about Serge Ibaka, they’re different, and if I seem dismissive of that point it’s because I disagree that Serge’s development has anything to do with Joel. Both Hakeem Olajuwon and Bismack picked up ball later in life, there’s no "one guy did it, so this guy will or won’t"

I watch the games, I’ve seen him over 10 times, this year. Going for 6 and 6 against Florida and destroying Alex Kirk. I think he’s a future star. Maybe I’m wrong, but I see him improve and I think he’s special. 

We have different opinions, and that’s fine, but I still think the whole Serge point correct stats or not is irrelevant.

[JoeWolf1]

And my point and opinion is that Embiid is different. I believe him to be the real deal. I don’t care about Serge Ibaka, they’re different, and if I seem dismissive of that point it’s because I disagree that Serge’s development has anything to do with Joel. Both Hakeem Olajuwon and Bismack picked up ball later in life, there’s no "one guy did it, so this guy will or won’t"

I watch the games, I’ve seen him over 10 times, this year. Going for 6 and 6 against Florida and destroying Alex Kirk. I think he’s a future star. Maybe I’m wrong, but I see him improve and I think he’s special. 

We have different opinions, and that’s fine, but I still think the whole Serge point correct stats or not is irrelevant.

[Ghost01Participant]

 The problem is you misunderstood the Serge point.

It has nothing to do with Embiid, except for the fact that people constantly overrate how guys can just spike based on how long they have been playing basketball. There is no evidence that this matters, or that it helps your "potential" that you started playing at a certain age. Ibaka was an example in terms of the fact he never came into one season and was like "Oh shit, I get basketball, I’m awesome now!" He made gradual improvements like any other player.

This doesn’t mean Embiid won’t be better than Ibaka, not at all, and I never said that, for whatever reason you assumed that was part of the argument I was making. The point is the past is the past, and looking at these players right now I’m judging Embiid off performance, not the fact he is a less experienced player. As long as Parker and Wiggins are also 18-19, they have the same exact chance of improvement that he does. 

 

 

[JoeWolf1]

I don’t think I misunderstood it. I’m just a firm believer that each individual is different and I find Joel intriguing not just because he started playing late, but because he is improving at an extremely rapid rate. Faster than Wiggins, faster than Parker, faster than Randle…maybe he’ll plateau, but I find that extremely exciting, especially since they have 10 years of basketball on him.

You’re big post where you stated your actual opinion, I never dug into, just the Serge point. Their backgrounds are too different, i know what you were implying, but i felt youre reference of Serge to prove your point didnt fit. Maybe you feel it was relevant. I still do not. Agree to disagree.

Time will tell who’s right or wrong. 

[JoeWolf1]

I don’t think I misunderstood it. I’m just a firm believer that each individual is different and I find Joel intriguing not just because he started playing late, but because he is improving at an extremely rapid rate. Faster than Wiggins, faster than Parker, faster than Randle…maybe he’ll plateau, but I find that extremely exciting, especially since they have 10 years of basketball on him.

You’re big post where you stated your actual opinion, I never dug into, just the Serge point. Their backgrounds are too different, i know what you were implying, but i felt youre reference of Serge to prove your point didnt fit. Maybe you feel it was relevant. I still do not. Agree to disagree.

Time will tell who’s right or wrong. 

[Ghost01Participant]

 The problem is you misunderstood the Serge point.

It has nothing to do with Embiid, except for the fact that people constantly overrate how guys can just spike based on how long they have been playing basketball. There is no evidence that this matters, or that it helps your "potential" that you started playing at a certain age. Ibaka was an example in terms of the fact he never came into one season and was like "Oh shit, I get basketball, I’m awesome now!" He made gradual improvements like any other player.

This doesn’t mean Embiid won’t be better than Ibaka, not at all, and I never said that, for whatever reason you assumed that was part of the argument I was making. The point is the past is the past, and looking at these players right now I’m judging Embiid off performance, not the fact he is a less experienced player. As long as Parker and Wiggins are also 18-19, they have the same exact chance of improvement that he does. 

 

 

[butidonthavemoney]

"He started playing basketball at a very young age with his first club, Avenir du Rail,"

– From Serge Ibaka’s Wikipedia Page.

I don’t remember anybody saying that Serge Ibaka had only been playing for a few years before he entered the league.

[Ghost01Participant]

 Ibaka started playing for Avenir du Rail at age 16. 

Which by my count is 3 years before he started playing in the NBA

http://www.nba.com/thunder/news/incredible_journey_ibaka_091123.html

Using "at a very young age" in a wikipedia article as your argument for why I was wrong is about as lazy as it comes. 

 

 

 

[Ghost01Participant]

 Ibaka started playing for Avenir du Rail at age 16. 

Which by my count is 3 years before he started playing in the NBA

http://www.nba.com/thunder/news/incredible_journey_ibaka_091123.html

Using "at a very young age" in a wikipedia article as your argument for why I was wrong is about as lazy as it comes. 

 

 

 

[butidonthavemoney]

"Ibaka was born into basketball. His father played professionally in Africa and for the national team of the Republic of Congo. His mother, Amadou Djonga, was a member of the national team of the Democratic Republic of Congo, the country formerly known as Zaire. They passed down a passion for the sport."

"Ibaka’s official introduction to the game came at age 7"

Is this any better?

That quote was only used in support of what I had said before, which was "I don’t remember anybody saying that Serge Ibaka had only been playing for a few years before he entered the league."

He entered the NBA at age 20. That’s four years of professional basketball experience. He had been around the game since he was a baby, and been playing since age 7.

Joel Embiid is a completely different case. He didn’t even dribble a basketball until he was 12 years old. Sure he started playing high school ball a couple years ago (either at 16 or 17), but he certainly did not grow up around the game like Ibaka did.

Not sure why you’re trying to make this an argument anyway. Even if Ibaka had not grown up around the game, his case proves nothing by itself. Hakeem Olajuwon didn’t start playing basketball until he was 15. Embiid could be on a similar learning curve, and it’s possible he’s a future superstar. It’s also possible he becomes just an excellent starter in the league, like Ibaka. He may even get hurt and bust, like Greg Oden. I don’t think knowing the year he started playing gives us any valuable insight into what kind of player he is, outside maybe letting us know that he’s a fast learner.

All things considered, I think Embiid will be the best center prospect to enter the draft since Greg Oden and despite his abhorred foul rate, I’d definitely consider taking him first overall.

[butidonthavemoney]

"Ibaka was born into basketball. His father played professionally in Africa and for the national team of the Republic of Congo. His mother, Amadou Djonga, was a member of the national team of the Democratic Republic of Congo, the country formerly known as Zaire. They passed down a passion for the sport."

"Ibaka’s official introduction to the game came at age 7"

Is this any better?

That quote was only used in support of what I had said before, which was "I don’t remember anybody saying that Serge Ibaka had only been playing for a few years before he entered the league."

He entered the NBA at age 20. That’s four years of professional basketball experience. He had been around the game since he was a baby, and been playing since age 7.

Joel Embiid is a completely different case. He didn’t even dribble a basketball until he was 12 years old. Sure he started playing high school ball a couple years ago (either at 16 or 17), but he certainly did not grow up around the game like Ibaka did.

Not sure why you’re trying to make this an argument anyway. Even if Ibaka had not grown up around the game, his case proves nothing by itself. Hakeem Olajuwon didn’t start playing basketball until he was 15. Embiid could be on a similar learning curve, and it’s possible he’s a future superstar. It’s also possible he becomes just an excellent starter in the league, like Ibaka. He may even get hurt and bust, like Greg Oden. I don’t think knowing the year he started playing gives us any valuable insight into what kind of player he is, outside maybe letting us know that he’s a fast learner.

All things considered, I think Embiid will be the best center prospect to enter the draft since Greg Oden and despite his abhorred foul rate, I’d definitely consider taking him first overall.

[butidonthavemoney]

"He started playing basketball at a very young age with his first club, Avenir du Rail,"

– From Serge Ibaka’s Wikipedia Page.

I don’t remember anybody saying that Serge Ibaka had only been playing for a few years before he entered the league.

[JoeWolf1]

[JoeWolf1]

[HitsterParticipant]

 Serge was picked 24th in the draft and has made two all defensive teams as well as being a consistent double digit scorer so he was a damn good draft choice by Sam Presti.

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 Serge was picked 24th in the draft and has made two all defensive teams as well as being a consistent double digit scorer so he was a damn good draft choice by Sam Presti.

 

 

[Author]

Posts