[Johnny Chill]

Maybe Barnes declares to stay at UNC for his junior year.

A second Pre Season National Player of the year Award and a second Pre Season ACC Player of the Year award would look good in his trophy case.

 

[r377Participant]

I have never been super high on Harrison Barnes ever since i saw him in HS I thought he had a slow first step and was overhyped. I got heavily negged 18 months ago when everyone was on the bandwagon and I voiced my opinion and said he would not go no 1 in the 2011 Draft…

 

He plays on a fast paced, high scoring team with one of the best PGs in the nation. He averages 17.2p 5.2r and a selfish 1.1a. I believe he will average 14-18ppg 5-6r in the NBA and will be a second option on a bad team and a third option on a contending / playoff team.  For a potential 2nd or 3rd overall pick in a good draft this is just not good enough….  You would be looking at a 20+ppg, All Star, possibly the face of your franchise….

 

COMPARISONS

Up until recently alot of ppl had compared him to Joe Johnson, now those comparisons have died down a bit and ppl are saying Luol Deng.

Joe Johnson is a six time all star and for the past few years has averaged 21-4-5.  Will Barnes be this good ?  Hell no…   Deng averages around 16/17-6 on one of the best teams in the NBA and is regarded as a great defender.

I personally see him more as a Sean Elliott or a slightly better version of Marvin Williams.

 

BEST CASE SCENERIO FOR BARNES

Going to the Bobcats.  The Bobcats are a mess, with no real scorer.  Barnes could score 18ppg and look like a great player.  Everyone will be back on the bandwagon and be happy…This is "FOOL’S GOLD".  Lets say the Bobcats rebuild over the next 3-4 years, Barnes will never be a no1 option, he will be a third or second option at best.  Lets fast forward and have a look at this scenerio at today’s contenders.  Will start from the top.

 

Heat and Thunder.  Say you replace James and Durant (a second overall pick) with Barnes, those teams go from being a contender to say a 7th or 8th seed.

Spurs a year or two back when they played more mins. With Duncan, Ginobilli and  parker, Barnes would be a fourth option and score 14ppg.

Bulls, take out Deng. You have Rose, Boozer and Rip. Barnes would be a third or fourth option about 14ppg.

Grizzlies, take out Gay. You still have Gasol, Randolph and Conley. He might be a second/third option here and score 15-16ppg. A bit off Rudy’s 19-20ppg.

Hawks take out Marvin. With Horford, JJ and Smith, Barnes would be a fourth option and score around 14ppg. Probably only slightly better than Marvin Williams (who was taken at 2 and is seen to be somewhat of a bust)

Lakers take out artest. With Kobe, Bynum, Gasol. Barnes would be a fourth option at 14ppg.

Even some Lotto teams – My pistons with Monroe, Stuckey, Knight. Barnes would be a third/fourth option and score 14ppg.  

Warriors with Bogut, Curry, Lee and Thompson. Barnes would be a third or fourth option 14ppg.

 

As I said before, being selected second or third in a good draft, you would expect more…..

 

Harrison Barnes = FOOL’S GOLD…

[HaleParticipant]

"I believe he will average 14-18ppg 5-6r in the NBA and will be a second option on a bad team and a third option on a contending / playoff team. For a potential 2nd or 3rd overall pick in a good draft this is just not good enough…. "

I think that’s plenty good. No one said he’s going to be a superstar. He’ll be a good 2nd or 3rd option on a good team. I think he’ll be 16-20 ppg, close to what you think. You’re pretty much calling him exactly how he is, and I don’t consider that fools gold, I consider that a good player.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

i will step up and say i did say he was similar to joe johnson…. well after todays game…. ima take that comparison back lol…. i knew his foot speed wasnt anything amazing… but his footspeed is pretty darn slow…. but i still think he will be good in the nba…. and that deng comparision is very solid….

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

I have been a big supporter of Barnes in his time at UNC. I have said before that I think he was elevated to a status as a HS recruit that he simply wasnt capable of being at due to the basketball world starving for another Freshman sensation. We need to face that we were spoiled with the Durant/Oden and Rose/Love/Mayo/Beasley classes and the chances of a class ever having 2 potential historic talents or a class being as deep and great as the 08 one are slim to none. Barnes was overrated because of that. Now we need to step back and re analyze him.

I still think Barnes can be a really really good player in the NBA. He’s 6’8 225 and has a really good jumpshot. I think that he can be a better version of Danny Granger which would probably equate to a fringe number 1 option/ top line number 2 option type player.

He is not an elite athlete, and he doesnt have elite explosiveness, but he is smart and by all accounts he has a tremendous work ethic. In my opinion that means that he still has very high potential. People look at athleticism and automatically assume that is an automatic equeal to potential and if you dont have it then you have a ceiling. I think that way of thinking is closed minded and simple. If a guy works hard and continues improving things hes not great at, his ceiling is infinitly higher. I think Barnes is one of those guys.

[rickybobbyParticipant]

How is Barnes fools gold he’s a good player not a great player. In "THIS" draft he’s one of the top players every draft doesnt have that clear cut Superstar talent . Look at the 2005 Draft Bogut went 1st and Marvin Williams 2nd neither is an superstar. Bogut is all-star caliber when healty and Williams is a good role player and solid starter. Both drafted ahead of Chris Paul, and Deron Williams. We dont know what Barnes is going to be as a pro but he’s definitely top 5 in terms of talent. Basically after the 1st pick i think everyone is going to draft need instead of best player available because there’s no clear cut second choice.

But as far as today Barnes looked liked the same guy he has from day one as Scorer that when is one plays like a top 3 pick. And when he off or in a slump doesnt look that good at all. Good player? "yes" Fools gold? "Not".

He needs alot of work on his one on on moves and ball handling, but more than that he needs to get a better understanding of his talents and a higher basketball IQ. At 6’8 220-225 you should not be constantily settling for jumpshots when guarded by a guy 6’3 and alot smaller and weaker than you. Also alot of his turnovers come from not been aware of what the defense is doing or having any if little basketball IQ.

Im a huge Carolina fan and Barnes fan i can say he was way overrated and overhyped, but he got the game he just doesn’t have the basketball mind to turn those skills into a much better player.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I think the best comparison for Harrison Barnes would be Steve Smith. Good height and a good shot.

Solid scorer but nothing spectacular. Can rebound and pass some but mostly a jump shooter. Not the greatest athlete but a solid player. Probably a good 3rd or 4th option.

[Dale WorthingtonParticipant]

Give me T. Ross, Beal, and MKG over Barnes.

I want assassins, playa. Barnes ain’t got that fire in his belly. Will be a solid player but doesn’t have that tremendous ceiling that you want in a top 5 pick in a loaded draft.

[Dale WorthingtonParticipant]

What Memphis Madness said.

[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

Ouch.. I have been saying that Barnes deserves to be considered for the number 1 pick.. He has done nothing but prove me wrong since I said that…

[HaleParticipant]

Barnes didn’t back down at the end of the game and made a couple big shots, so I don’t see how Ross is more of an assassin. MKG is just a better player overall so I can’t argue that. Beal hasn’t shot nearly as well as most thought and he’s a tad undersized. Ross is more athletic, but he’s a bit smaller and Barnes is far more polished. Barnes is a near lock to be a very good player in the NBA. I think people are also failing to realize that if he just improves his handle to average, his upside skyrockets.

[Michael.S.Participant]

I don’t see much more than a solid NBA player in him at all. He has literally no creativity on the offensive end, and it isn’t like he can get away with that because he isn’t a superb athlete and he isn’t the decisive or deceptive. He has alot of the limitations a guy like Deng has.

[HaleParticipant]

Deng’s doing pretty well for himself in my opinion. I would consider Deng a very good NBA player.

[Michael.S.Participant]

Yeah, thats what I see Barnes being. Deng is a teams 3-4th best player if they’re any good.

[Johnny Chill]

Deng is a really good defensive player and pretty much developed a jumpshot all the way to the 3 point line last season.

I dont know if Barnes is close to the defensive player Deng is. Barnes will make his mark with his jump shot not defense.

[NickWayne87Participant]

 is actually probably the bulls 2nd or 3rd best player……which is what i see barnes being…

[Dale WorthingtonParticipant]

Y2G, Ross actually has better size than Barnes.

6’6 at SG > 6’8 at SF

And I’m not so sure Barnes is more polished than Ross.

What does Barnes even do better than Ross? Is he better defensively? I honesty have no clue. Just comparing them offensively, T. Ross is a good bit ahead of Barnes IMO (even when it comes to shooting and ball handling…Ross with the decisive edge in athleticism and ability to create).

[HaleParticipant]

My bad, for some reason I just assumed he was a SF. Either way both have good size. Ross is a better athlete and ball handler, no doubt about it. Barnes is a better defender, but not by much. Personally I think he’s a better shooter (slightly), he’s stronger and I definitely think he’s more polished. When Barnes isn’t deadset on settling for a stepback or fadeaway, he has alot of great fakes and moves and hits tough contested shots all the time. Barnes also scores more against better competition and gets to the line twice as often as Ross does, despite not attacking the rim that often.

A lot of people confuse him not being aggressive with him not having a killer instinct. He doesn’t shy away from the big moment at all. In fact I’ve never seen him back down once. Shots may not have fallen, but he had the confidence to take them. Tonight he was awful, but still at the end had a great fake at the end of the shot clock to get to the line, hit a 3 late in the game to tie, and hit a shot to tie the game again late. In his two seasons at Carolina he’s made a bunch of plays at the end of games, first coming to mind was his 40 point game against Clemson last season.

I understand he was overly hyped coming into college and hasn’t lived up to the dominance expected of him, but he’s a very good player. He’s probably the most polished scorer in the Nation, and that’s despite his lack of balhandling ability. He’s unbelievably patient for a So. in college, and that’s often mistaken for being soft. He’s been in a slump recently and it’s obviously not the best timing for it to come, but he’s going to be a very good player regardless. He’s shooting 45% from the field and near 40% from 3 despite four of his last five games being horrendous, and even without much of a handle averages 5.1 FTA per game, in under 29 minutes per game. That’s more then Beal in 5 less minutes per game, double Ross, more then MKG, more then Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, Kris Joseph, Kevin Jones, Draymond Green and is nearly on pace with Thomas Robinson and Royce White. He gets so much unwarrented hate because he’s not a superstar, but he never was going to be one in the first place.

[kanyedabestParticipant]

had enough of ppl hyping this guy up…. he goes missing for long stretches, relies on a 3ball tht isnt too consistent to start with…. If u take away his size advantage ur not left with a lot… Starting to become crystal clear that this guy will be a role player at the next level, certainly no where near a franchise type talent, sorry folks thats just the reality of it… Neg me all u want but this guy was a bloody no show against friggin ohio, a team that has produced zero nba talent in the past decade plus, he settles so much for 3’s and fall away shots, hes a pussy out there, lacks a killers mentality…. No way he goes #2 at all, he wont be top 3 either and hell he may falll out of the top 5.. ppl i know with inside knowledge say never have pro scouts been lower on this kid then they are now, even downgading his athleticism.

On the other hand this only raises kendall marshalls stock, proves that he is the one deserving of the hype and not barnes..

[Future_Scout]

y2g that was spot on….

i cant say ross doesn’t have a chance of being better than barnes…

barnes is more developed, mentally ready, more consistent. might be a better defender specially in the post but i see ross more versatile for example, i see him checking a SG in the nba easier.

despite not having great handles i can see him pushing the break better than barnes thx to his athleticism. ross is a very good shooter and slightly better at creating his shot off-the-dribble thanks to his better handles. also athleticism allows him to shoot over the defense easier cuss he’s able to elevate more on his shots and fadeaways as opposed to barnes having to always shoot OVER the defense.

idk if this is 100% true but its what i see…

i’ve been watching ross’s games lately and he’s been on a sickening tear. the boy can score on ISOs. shoot 3s off the dribble, spot up nicely… matter fact he’s 2 more threes than barnes shooting almost equally.

369% on 5.5 3s     vs     382% on 3.4 3s

[Future_Scout]

 "Deng is a teams 3-4th best player if they’re any good."

if deng is the 4th best player on a team i can assure you they would be serious title contenders.

deng is great next to rose, and the 2nd best bull when playing together with rose

[invalidParticipant]

 hell yeah, ive said it also before there’s no need for him to be the top pick..id take mkg any day over barnes in the nba.

[ThepessimestParticipant]

In my opinion the issue is not Harrison Barnes. The issue is the silly comparisons that these basketball writers use when assessing these players. During his freshman year Harrison Barnes was compared to Kobe Bryant which is insane. I mean…. how can you compare a freshman to a player many consider one of the 10 best players every to play (depending on who you are)? It was crazy! And watching him play for 10 minutes one can see that the comparison to Kobe is ridiculous. I tell my friend this all the time..  these writers and "scouts" in many cases write political articles. Some of you would be surprised at "why" some players get hyped over others. Its dependent on the school they attend or the relationships they have with coaches. 

Secondly, some of you need to consider that Harrison Barnes is playing in a system that is big man user friendly. UNC pounds the ball inside and although Barnes himself does not rack up a lot of assists the team as a whole shares the basketball. On most nights Zeller and/or Henson are being defended by smaller players. Thus Harrison Barnes is not "featured" in the offense like many stars are; particularly guards are. So while I too think he could do more I also think that the system in which he plays in plays a part in why his numbers aren’t jumping out at you.

Lastly, some of you are criticizing the kid saying he’ll be Luol Deng. Last I checked Luol Deng was a pretty darn good player in the NBA. In fact before D. Rose played for the Bulls Luol Deng led a young Bulls team  to a couple playoff runs. So that isn’t to me an insult if Barnes turned out like Deng. 

All in all I’d like to see more from him. He does underperform at times. But I’m always reminded that certain systems in college hide a players true talents. And the NBA is a more open game and sometimes guys like Barnes get to the NBA and really shine. The one thing I worry about for in the NBA is that sometimes he seems to lack a certain passion for the game and those guys always worry me. Again….Always hard to judge UNC guys because the system that is there is not a "one man gang" type of system. He could be Marvin Williams or he could be a very good NBA player for years.

[invalidParticipant]

 ^ agreed. he is good on his own, not just as the players that he is being compared to

[bjcart53Participant]

 I think the best comparison for Harrison Barnes would be Steve Smith. Good height and a good shot.

Solid scorer but nothing spectacular. Can rebound and pass some but mostly a jump shooter. Not the greatest athlete but a solid player. Probably a good 3rd or 4th option.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Steve Smith was light years better. His handles were pretty decent because he ran some point for ATL. 

[HadzialijagicParticipant]

Im feeling the Danny Granger comparison right now.

[JoeWolf1]

 I dunno, he had an awful game last night, but still came up HUGE down the stretch.  That kind of ability to have a bad game and still have the confidence to sink a big shot is not something every scorer has.  No, Barnes isn’t a good rebounder for his size, and there are some holes in his game, but I feel he’s a legit top 6 pick who is going to score in the NBA. 

I don’t see Deng, because Deng is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, but I feel Barnes is going to be an 18-22 ppg scorer in his prime, who will probably not be the great all around player people thought he’d be in high school, BUT who is going to make a couple All-Star games and sink some big shots in his career.

That’s my 2 cents on Barnes.

[HadzialijagicParticipant]

You guys have to remember though although he doesnt have a killer instinct from what ive heard he is as hard of a worker as their is.

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

I somewhat agree with you. He’s not a #1 option but more of a #2 option. People certainly expected a lot from him coming out of High School, and he certainly dissapointed a few.  He is a good shooter and an improving defender. But I still think he is the best SF prospect in this draft. Not the best prospect, but the best SF prospect. True, he doesn’t have the fire that MKG has, but you need a great shooter and good defender on your team to win games. A lot of people compare him to Luol Deng, take Deng off the Bulls and they wouldn’t be where they are today. He adds a lot more to the Bulls than one would think. He can shut a player down, yet is not a liability offensively, so you can’t just substitute someone in for him and expect to get the same result unless that player is just as good as Deng. Let’s compare Barnes to a different player, Grant Hill. take Hill away from the Suns and again they aren’t the same team. Nash has even said it himself, "Hill is the Suns most important player." (I don’t think he said it in those exact words, but I believe during free agency of this year, Nash expressed how important the re-signing of Grant Hill was to the Suns and to him. He certainly said something to that effect.) True, he is not the best, but he is the most important. Try someone else, Paul Pierce. (This is the player I compare Barnes too) Take Pierce off of the Celtics and they aren’t the same team either. I’d agure that Pierce is the glue that holds the Celtics together, or in other words, the most important player on the Celtics but certainly not the best. That’s what Barnes is, the glue that holds the Tarheels together, and that’s he will be in NBA. Not a dominating player, but a solid player nonetheless. Most importantly though he will be that glue guy that’s holds a team together and is the most important player on the team. That’s a rare quality, not many players have that aspect about them. Therefore he’s going to be highly sought after by many teams, meaning he’s going to be high draft pick (probably top 5). Would you describe a team’s most important player, the player that holds a team together like glue as "Fool’s Gold"? I certainly wouldn’t.

[TheDagger40Participant]

From what i hear, Barnes seem like a great, talented kid with an amazing work ethic. He may not be physically dominating but i think he has a great perimeter game. I think the Lakers should try to snag this kid in the draft.(with the help of a couple trades) As a rookie and sophmore, Barnes can be the 6th man for the Lakers (like Kobe’s 1st and second years), while he refines his game learning from Bryant and Artest. When the two retire (in about 4-5 years), Barnes can take over and be a dangerous first or second option (Bynum being the first).

[F_DA_POParticipant]

He’s not impressive. He’s one of the only top 10 picks that when you see him play you forget he’s even out there. Last night was a perfect example. I can’t see this guy being that good of a pro, I really like the Marvin Williams comparison.

I don’t know how anyone could take Barnes over Davis, Robinson, Lamb or Gilchrist. I’d take Drummond over him, but not high on that guy either. Barnes doesn’t belong in the top 5.

[Harbinger]

 The thing is he is still productive without these things so what is the big deal he will get better at all the things he does and improve on the things he doesn’t do great.

I hate to say it but I think the real fools gold in this draft will be mkg I like him but watching him play im starting to see thing about him now.

1.Half of his points come from off rebounds and fast break problem is in the nba most sf are going to be bigger then him plus nba frountcourts wont be having that.I doubt he will be routing  teams like he does in kentucky fastbreaking up and down the court LAYING THE BALL UP no cut his numbers in half or atleast by a third.

2.He lays up alot that is not going down on the next level he wont get point in the paint so easy.

3.He wont have the top talent pool he does in kentucky to carry he load and dominate like he did in college

the nab is the best of the best.

 

Being that his offensive game is only off the dribble to the court and he is top 5 I say that is fools gold.

Being that barnes short comings are exploited and mkgs are concealed by great teamates is fools gold.

I just want to hear some valid points to why mkg isnt fools gold.

 

[chocboywndrParticipant]

This to me is a case for why for some elite players being forced to goto college for one year is not good for them. With all the limitations the NCAA puts on practice time for the players if you do not pick the right college with team that is not only going to feature your skills but develop your weaknesses in the short time available this is what can happen.

Now I am not making excuses for the kid he did not play well and Carolina is my fav team, but they are not the best school to goto for wing players to develop. The system is based around the post with wings mostly as spot up shooters with lots of dribble hand offs. They do love to play fast but not as a la UNLV back in the day where they wanted to run and dunk on you all day. More run and shoot style, which is good for Harrisons natural skill set but didnt force him to devlop his ball handling which was weak to begin with. Harrison needed to be in a system where he would be forced to dribble much more be put in more ball handling situations. Most top wings have the ball in their hands at the end of games that never happened for him until the tournament. Everything went through Kendall Marshall, Harrison just was a spot up shooter in the system. The system at Carolina always has one post player sometimes 2. Their is usually very litttle room to drive which lead to him not really driving to the basket and choosing mostly to pull up, or take a 3 point shots.

To me this kid looks like he was just trying to fit in to the system, doing what was asked of  him almost a role player. He never looked like a featured player in the offence in any game I ever saw. Kendall found him on the break and the kid can straight out shoot so he was going to score. The team was never geared toward him nor did the coaching staff demand in 2 years that he get better with the ball. To me he is a better athelte than Deng much better shooter, and being explosive is not the biggest key to getting to the basket.He got to the basket and was explosive 2 years ago it didnt disappear he is as good an athlete as Paul Pierce was when he wss younger and he has been getting to the basket for years. Being able to change pace a solid handle,intelligence, a good jump shot are keys to getting to basket. With his pull up skills guys will be running at him in the NBA a head fake and his gone. He has excellent midrange game if he can develop the hesitation dribble will kill them, I have been watching Paul Pierce do it for years as a non elite athelte.

The biggest key for Harrison Barnes will be going somewhere that will be able to team him to play. Somewhere that will have dribble all summer work on one on one moves all summer I don’t think that can be done in college he needs to be somewhere that limitations on time to improve his game are not monitored. by the NCAA. I think he can be an as good as Pierce or if you want to say as bad as Deng either way that still makes him an allstar.

[Author]

Posts