Future Franchise Players
clearly i dont watch basketball, lol
At this point im talking to a wall, but ill repeat for the 5th time, love is 22, he got better. Believe it or not players in their thrid season can improve. Jefferson leaving is a small part of it. ANyone who watches basketball can see love has imprved significantly this season. Why do you think jefferson is gone? Becasue the wolves knew who was going to be better. And again, im willing to bet the jazz would absolutey take love and give jefferson back if they were given the opportunity. ANyone who uses he is only doing it becasue jefferso n left doesnt watch basketball if you ask me. Also anyone who says i said he would get the same number of rebounds if he was in orlando clearly doesnt read either. Go back and try again.
clippers have always had a better supporting cast. Dont know how long you have been on this site urban, but every single year is the season the clips talent breaks out and they play to their potential and they make the playoffs. That is an annual thing on this site.
again, your only evidence of him getting so much better is his numbers. He isnt making anyone with any credibility pay in the paint. He isnt dominating games to the point of victory. Has he improved? ofcourse, but theres a difference from improving and being an all star. He still hasnt proven against top flight talent he can dominate a game. Even if hes doing it in the box score, he is getting blown out of the water. Did you watch Andray Blatche last year? Im sure there plenty of idiotic posters like you that were thinking he was the 2nd coming of Karl Malone when he went on that scoring binge. Or how bout Darren Collison going 20/10 for the Hornets team that was losing 3/4 games?
Look where they are now. Blatche is back to being a nobody and Collison is putting up mediocre numbers on a weak playoff team.
you need to stop looking at box scores and using stats all the time. Watch the games and you will see what love is doing. I actually watch the wolves a lot and every single game the announcers for the opposing team are talking about how he is an all-star.
Right, the announcers are saying hes an all star, so it has to be true.
I watched him vs Blake just the other night...and he was clearly not on BLake's level, and got most of his production when they came was essentially over. IVe watched the T Wolves more than enough this year, and they always lose, so obviously, he must not be that great. He doesnt dominate games, he doesnt do anything to make it obvious he is changing the outcome of the games. If you wanna see rebounding change games, watch Dennis Rodman. He made love look like Brook Lopez.
"its early in his career. Too early to suggest that his talent doesnt result in wins. Give him teammates that are decent and then judge him for wins. Minnesota hasnt had anything close to a playoff roster in an extremely deep western conference."
So let's tie in the Golden State Warriors with this too. The Warriors have supposedly three All-Star caliber players in Ellis, Curry, and Lee. How many more years and how many more good players do they need before they can compete? If you believe Kevin Love and Michael Beasley are good, then what else do they need? Webster and Ridnour were able to help winning teams elsewhere. Wes Johnson was a top five pick. They are going to add another top five pick this year. How long are you giving them before they have to grow up and be held accountable for their team's failure?
rodman also did nothing but stand under the basket and focus on rebounding. Love actually is the main offensive player and he spends a lot of his time outside on the three point line. Rodman was never at any point in his career one of the 2 best players on his team.
@btph, i dont think beasley is all that good. I've never said curry or lee are all-star caliber players. I did say lee deserved to make it last year, but that was becasue there werent enough true all-star bigs in the east. That has happened plenty of times in the past when guys like tyrone hill, horace grant, anthony mason, jayson williams, christian leattner, jamal magloire, al horford have made it. Making an all-star team in the east as a big man doesnt always mean a whole lot not that those guys didnt deserve it at the time considering the other options.
Rodman also won 5 rings.
Love barely wins 5 games a season.
The fact your last post insinuates you actually think Love is better than Rodman is a joke.
And back to BTPH, exactly, if Love and Beasely are both good, then wouldnt the T Wolves be good? I mean Chicago has only played with 2 "good" players the whole season, and they are 29-14. They are playing with 1 right now. Tonight, Kurt Thomas and CJ Watson were there 2nd and 3rd best crunchtime players. and they beat Dallas. Thats why Derrick Rose is an all star. Kevin Love and Michael Beasely are losers, and are losers until proven otherwise.
i never said rodman wasnt better then love, although i do think it is pretty close. ROdman was a role player. You put rodman on the wovles this year instead of love and im not sure they win 10 games all season. But my point in comparing them was you brought up hopw rodman was such a better rebounder. If love said screw it i dont give a damn about scoring. IM just gonna stand under the rim offense be damned. I think he could get more rebounds then rodman did which is believe his career high was about 18. Its actually a major compliment to love that most great rebounders in the past 30 years have been either role players or 7 footers who just stood around the paint. Love is neither of those.
So Beasely puts up 20.6 and 5.7, but hes just a player putting up numbers on a bad team, while Love is great? Does that make any sense what so ever? Again flawed points...
llperez, obviously you didnt watch Rodman play very much.
Rodman's game was outhustling everyone on every single play, and willing his way to rebounds. He was 6 foot 7. And he consistantly averaged 19 rebounds per game. In the 96 finals, he single handidly won the Bulls 2 of the 4 games. He was a once in a lifetime talent who changed games his own unique way.
COmparing him to a player who has a 23 win % in his career was a joke.
YOu talk about "IF Rodman had to focus on offense blah blah blah"
But Rodman was a WINNER. He was the 3rd best player on a THREE PEAT, thats alot more important than Love being the best player on a top 5 worst team in the NBA. You have no idea what you are talking about even comparing the two. Rodman may have been a role player, but if Love was on a winner, he would be no more than that.
once again urban, stop relying on stats. Watch games. Beasley is a scorer and thats it, thats why his stats dont mean much to me. Love impacts the game in other ways. He is a great rebounder and passer. He is a great shooter. He is a high iq guy who rarely plays out of control. Stop relying on stats so much and watch games.
urban, i can promise you i have watched more of rodman then you have. WHen did you start watching basketball since you repeatedly like to bring up how much more basketball you watch? ALso rodman "consistently averaged 19 rebounds"? Lol, if by consistent you mean he never averaged 19 rebounds ever, lol. ANd i can promise you love could win titles too if he was the third best player on a team. Is robert horry a star in your mind too?
dude, you are comparing Kevin Love to Dennis Rodman. I refuse to even have a conversation with you anymore.
For a 4 year stretch, Rodman averaged 16.8-18.7 rebounds. Sorry it wasnt 19.
And yes, Kevin Love is great at everything. his 2.5 assists really show his outstanding passing ability.
I know you didnt watch Rodman just by the way you are making him out to be. He did so much for a team it wasnt even funny, he just wasnt a scoring player. You cant measure the energy and hustle he brought. The way he could guard 7 footers in the 90s when most teams had a stud center. The way he just had that knack for knowing there the rebound was every time.
COmparing this to a guy who is 10-33. 10-33. Just defend 10-33, and nothing else, actually dont, because im not reading your response because you have disgraced basketball knowledge by even putting him and Rodman in the same conversation.
you brought rodman nto this discussion not me. The only comparison i made between love and rodman was that love could get the same numiber of rebounds if he didnt care about offense since you said rodman was such a better rebounder.. Other then that, how did i make rodman out to be? DId i ever say love was better? Did i ever say rodman wasnt a champ? You are grassping at straws here. ANd honest to goodness real talk urdban, i have been in plenty of arguments on this site with numerous users. But whether i agree with them or not i usually respect thsir knowledge. I do not respect your knowledge at all. You do not know your stuff man and its obvious.
ehh, i take it back urban. I do respect your knowledge. I dont need to be getting into petty internet arugments. We just disgree.
I'm a Laker fan, not a UCLA fan. Never been a fan of Love, as I hate his poor defense and lack of athleticism. But you can't deny what the guy brings. And actually the Pistons ARE the perfect analogy. Rip Hamilton has always been a piss poor defender and wasn't exactly great the finals years. He played solid man D with a team of tenacious rebounders. K-Love would actually be nice defensively beside of an athletic defensive minded center, and a defensive oriented team where he could use his body and toughness to root people around and bang. He'd be nice with the old Bad Boy teams, or the Celtics, or even the Spurs. Don't forget rebounding is also a part of defense. And when you're gobbling up second chance baskets, there is some leeway defensively that as a team you can make up for. You think Glen Davis is a terrific defender? What about Al Jefferson? Z-Bo? Booz? Some players have to be TAUGHT how to defend and buy into a defensive system. Look at K-Love at UCLA, he wasn't exactly a defensive presence, but when the time was needed (tourney) he comes away with a triple double on 10 blocks. Point is, he CAN play D, it's just a matter of system and surrounding players. Beasley,Ellington,Flynn,Darko,Ridnour,Telfair, Kurt Rambis. Yeah, first thing that came to mind with those guys was defense.
Wow, really should have payed attention and saw there was a second page to this thread. Rodman was never on a bad team. He consistently played with winning teams with numerous offensive options so YEShe was able to focus on rebounding. I do disagree that the Worm simply camped out under the basket looking for rebounds. Throughout his career you would see Rodman guarding all sorts of players from Shaq to MJ. Leaving him guarding the perimeter at times.
IMO, Rodman and Love are 2 different types of rebounders. Love, like Rodman can get rebounds out of sheer will, the difference is that Love goes block to block after rebounds which is a rarity for bigs, and good basic fundamentals of boxing out and using length.
Rodman on the other hand, used physicality, change of positioning, elbows, will, and having the ELITE nose for the ball. Rodman would go after the rebounds that seemed like they were going to go out of bounds and would ignite fast breaks for Mike and Scottie, something the two used to compete with each other for. Rodman made rebounding look cool, but he was never an offensive option having 9.8 I believe as his highest PPG.
ATM, Rodman's rebounding is more impactful simply because that was his role and he did it at an elite level, but to say Love's rebounding is not as impactful is one's opinion because you could argue that without Love's rebounding, the Wolves wouldn't win at all.
BTW, Beasley is a scorer plain and simple, first and foremost. Anyone who has watched him play can tell you that. For all of the basketball you watch, you seem to miss a lot of the "obvious" things.
I agree to disagree, and i also agree with iguapops points