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ESPN Player Rank; Your Top 10?

Nbanflguy
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I would, but I dont have any

I would, but I dont have any coach or gm's phone number. If you make statement like that, I assume that you talk to coaches or Gm's to get that information. Who have you asked about it? Are they nice in person?

The clutch stat is bs to. There have been tons of information lately that shows that Kobe really is not all that clutch. Yeah he has made some awesome clutch shots in his career, but when you take every single clutch shot for the past 15 years you have to make a few. I have seen tons of times where Kobe will take and miss a contested fade away jumper while being triple teamed instead of hitting an open man.

Im not even a huge Durant fan. I think he is getting a little bit overrarted lately with people thinking he is better than Lebron, but he is still better than Kobe right now.

It is also laughable that you think Kobe makes his teammates better and Durant doesnt

Nbanflguy
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Here is a note I found

Here is a note I found interesting:

Bryant's annual All-Defense selections make a mockery of the idea that head coaches are actually doing the voting. He picks his spots and rarely has to guard good wings. Nobody would place him among the league's elite stoppers.

Thats from espn insider scouting report on Bryant.

IndianaBasketball
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Now, hold on... I'll say that

Now, hold on... I'll say that Kobe hasn't deserved some of his late career all defensive selections, BUT to say ALL of his NBA All-Defensive First Team selections are "completely undeserved" is pure ignorance.

During the prime of Kobe's career and even slightly after it, he was one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA... An absolute lockdown defender who could defend three positions. There's a reason these voters are still giving these to him... It's because they're living too far back in the past and not right at this moment.

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I Cant Believe you said Kobe

I Cant Believe you said Kobe wasnt a Top 10 player in 2010-11.....

IndianaBasketball
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Yea, even with a bum knee

Yea, even with a bum knee that season, Kobe put up 25, 5 and 5... AND played all 82 games.

There were not 10 players better than Kobe that season.

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Lebron James, Dwyane Wade,

Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Dwight Howard, and Chris Paul were all clearly better. You could also make a case for Zach Randolph, Russell Westbrook, Tony Parker, Amare before Melo showed up, and Kevin Love. I hate how everyone has a selective memory and forgets how Kobe wasn't nearly as good in 10-11 as he was in 11-12 and it was so obvious in the way he played.

BELLY333333
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Lebron James

Lebron James

NooMMMA
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kobe

kobe

Nbanflguy
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Now, hold on... I'll say that

Now, hold on... I'll say that Kobe hasn't deserved some of his late career all defensive selections, BUT to say ALL of his NBA All-Defensive First Team selections are "completely undeserved" is pure ignorance.

Who said that?

IndianaBasketball
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Y2G

Y2G

Nbanflguy
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I think he was refering to

I think he was refering to all the awards that Kobe got in 2010-2011, not all the awards he has won in his career.

IndianaBasketball
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"Hell almost all of his 1st

"Hell almost all of his 1st team defenses are completely undeserved."

That doesn't sound like he was just talking the about the 2010-2011 season.

Nbanflguy
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Your right. I didnt read that

Your right. I didnt read that part I guess. Lets go beat him up!!

Hale
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I meant exactly what you

I meant exactly what you said. His later awards were not deserved, I worded it poorly.

IndianaBasketball
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Even at this point of Kobe's

Even at this point of Kobe's career, he's a more complete player than Kevin Durant, BUT Durant's *youth*, athleticism and height/length with so much offensive skill is enough to overcome his lack of a complete game and put him over Kobe in my opinion.

I think Durant is figuring out how to make his teammates better... It's not always about assists. It's about being aggressive... It's about closing up the holes in your game and putting yourself in positions where you can make the game easier for your teammates. It's about demanding nothing but the best from your teammates and understanding that leading doesn't always mean being everybody's best friend. Like I said, I think Durant has made strides... I liked seeing him get on Russell Westbrook.

At this point, it's time to let go of Kobe being the best in the league, etc. I have no problem with considering him top five even, but he's clearly on the decline and only has about two or three years left. He admitted that himself.

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i don't think its fair to say

i don't think its fair to say durant is lacking a complete game

IndianaBasketball
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It's a fair statement. Kevin

It's a fair statement. Kevin Durant isn't a complete player, which is why he's so scary.

He's not a great post player just yet because he lacks strength.

He's not a great defender just yet, but he can make an impact with his length alone. He's improving, but can still get so much better.

He's a great offensive player, but couldn't he be more aggressive? Wouldn't you like to see him demand the ball more?

And leadership wise... He's still growing as a well. He's not a natural leader, but he's shown improvement the last two seasons.

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i think you're mixing up his

i think you're mixing up his CURRENT abilities with his POTENTIAL to grow skill-wise. and that's what makes him scary. he's above average at everything.

he improved his post game this year, with that over-the-top nowitzki-ish one-legged turnaround. (that we'll see him use more and more as he gets older), i also saw improvements at being a bit more aggressive against smaller defenders.

he's already an above average defender. and he'll FOR SURE improve in this area

be more aggressive? he drew as many fouls as D.wade who is considered a top 'slasher' in the game. only one less than lebron who is considered a freight train. he shot 50 from the floor, it doesn't get much more efficient than that for a wing player.

and leadership wise? kevin durant is never gonna be that vocal leader like lebron. just doesn't strike me as that person. but he doesn't take bad shot, wants to win, is a good teammate and most importantly, he's clutch as F

IndianaBasketball
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So you think Kevin Durant's

So you think Kevin Durant's game is *complete* at 23 years old?

Complete means total... Absolute. Complete means perfected... To make whole.

Can Durant get in the post and shoot a turnaround "one legged" fadeaway? Yea, sure... But he's not a complete post player. It's not a strength in his game. That's what complete means. Kobe Bryant's post game is complete. Paul Pierce's post game is complete. Dirk Nowitzki's post game is complete. During the NBA Finals, LeBron James dominated in the post and looked complete. There were no answers for him in the post and he either exploited his defender or got doubled and made them pay by making passes to wide open teammates/making it easier for them.

Durant can do a lot of things, but he's not a complete basketball player. There are a lot of players in the NBA who can do things... That doesn't mean those areas of their games are complete. There's a difference and it's pretty huge.

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to me he is a complete

to me he is a complete player... like, overall.

not complete in the sense he has peeked.

but whatever, if you think kevin durant is not a complete player because his post game is not as polished as kobe's, carmelo's, or lebron's post game, who are the best post wing-players. then that's your opinion.

fact is, durant has no weakness.

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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He can't exactly defend in

He can't exactly defend in the post. That's a weakness.

He's not a natural leader. That's a weakness.

Improving his passing but not all there yet. That's a weakness.

Cannot control tempo of a game. That's a weakness.

Not as aggresive as he should be on both ends. That's a weakness.

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BS. he can defend in the

BS.

he can defend in the post. when was the last SF that started exploiting durant in the post?... not a weakness

he;s not a natural leader? i went over this... he is a leader by example!!! he's insanely clutch and will come thru when his team needs him. doesnt jack shots. he took his team to the finals as a 24 year old outplaying the hottest teams in the mavs, lal, and spurs..... clearly not a weakness

his passing is well above average..... clearly not a weakness.

control the tempo of a game? he's 7 feet tall, do you want him playing point forward?...that's not his game. he controls the game by scoring whenever a bucket is needed.

...PLEASE...

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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"When was the last SF that

"When was the last SF that started exploiting durant in the post?"
LeBron in the Finals.

Leading by example and leading by words are two completely different things. It's obvious Westbrook is the vocal leader on that team.

His passing is nowhere near above average, just stop it.

When you're the star player on the team, you need to be able to control the tempo of the game, doesn't matter if you're 7'6" (Like Yao did for the Rockets when healthy) or 5'11 (Like Allen Iverson did for the 76ers and Denver)

Another thing, he turns the ball over way too much for somebody that isn't the primary or secondary ball-handler on the team.

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lebron did not exploit durant

lebron did not exploit durant in the post. nor did he do more damage in the post than usual.

leading by example is being a leader.

4th best passing SF.

how did yao control the tempo of the rockets? (serious question)

allen iverson is not 5'11

he held the ball at a 31 usage% compared to westbrook's 32%. which would make him the secondary ball-handler.

NooMMMA
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There were not 10 players

There were not 10 players better than Kobe that season.

UUMUYYOSA
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haha

haha

IndianaBasketball
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I think we have different

I think we have different definitions of "complete player" and just what being a complete player requires. We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

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no prob. agreed to

no prob. agreed to disagree.

if you had to make a list, what does durant require to be a complete player? post game?

cuss the way i look at it, if he's not a complete player. THEN WHO IS????? aside from lebron.

Hale
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Paul Pierce, Chris Paul,

Paul Pierce, Chris Paul, Kobe, Steve Nash offensively.

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paul pierce: lacks a first

paul pierce: lacks a first step. post game is not as strong as some think. he's complete though

chris paul: should attack the basket more. has lost that super quickness. gets taken to the post by bigger PGs. disappears for short periods of time and then waits till the last second to explode.

kobe: bad shooting selection, ball stopper, needs to be more efficient from the floor.

steve nash: loosing quickness, hole on defense.

Hale
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Complete means they can do

Complete means they can do everything. It has nothing to do with being athletic. Kobe, Pierce and Paul can also score in every way imaginable, pass if needed, rebound and defend, therefore they are complete.

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Complete means they can do

"Complete means they can do everything. Kobe, Pierce and Paul can also score in every way imaginable, pass if needed, rebound and defend, therefore they are complete."

SO DOES DURANT!!!!!! i think kobe, pierce, and paul ARE complete players!!!!! im just trying to prove that you can nit-pick on any1!

durant can do everything in the court, as well as them. score from anywhere, pass, rebound, defend. he is the undisputable 2nd best player in the world.

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Durant doesn't defend nearly

Durant doesn't defend nearly as well as those three and isn't much of a passer at this point, even though he's improving. He's the 2nd best player in the world, but he isn't complete yet. He could be in 12-13, but he hasn't shown to be it at this point.

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by saying "as well as them" i

by saying "as well as them"

i meant "and they can too"

NOT, 'he can do those things as well as them

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BTW durant posted better

BTW durant posted better 'defensive rating' than kobe. and better steal and block numbers than both, pierce and kobe.

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A lock down defender at 3

A lock down defender at 3 positions really meanwhile Fisher, Fox were guarding the other teams top offensive player a lot of the time.

IndianaBasketball
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You mean just like Pippen

You mean just like Pippen used to guard the other team's best player from time to time and Jordan sometimes wouldn't lock up the best offensive player until the 4th quarter? Or how LeBron didn't always defend the best player so he could roam defensively? I remember LeBron defending Alston instead of Lewis and Turk. Do you remember him covering Dirk at all during the Finals? Just because a great defensive player doesn't defend the best offensive player every second of the game doesn't mean he's not a great defensive player.

There is no doubt that Kobe was a *lockdown* defender during his prime who could defend point guard, shooting guard or small forward.

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1. Lebron 2. Kevin D. 3.

1. Lebron

2. Kevin D.

3. Kobe

4. Rose

5. Paul

6. Howard

7. Wade

8. Deron Williams

9. Westbrook

10. Love

MUbballfan
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1) LeBron 2) Durant 3) D12 4)

1) LeBron

2) Durant

3) D12

4) Paul

5) Wade

6) Rose

7) Kobe

8) Love

9) DWill

10) Westbrook

Pistol Pete. Th...
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I think people put extremely

I think people put extremely too much stock into the art of scoring, there is much more to the game than putting the ball in the net.

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If you don't think Kobe has

If you don't think Kobe has been top 10 at the very least in every season for the past decade, you are definatly smoking somthing.

Would I have put Kobe in the top 5 this season or last? Not at alll, but to say he hasn't been even at 9 or 10 is ignorant. The guy scored 25 a game in only 33 minutes per, that too at a respectable 45%(In 10-11) I know his FG% dipped considerably this past season, but to say guys like Rondo, Bynum, and Dirk are better than Kobe? It might be close but you still have to give Kobe the nod.....for now that is. If his efficiency continues to dip ranking him lower can definatly be justified, but I have him in the top 10 right now.

Hale
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Double post

Double post

Hale
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I swear you never read what I

I swear you never read what I actually say, but whatever.

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I do read your posts, and

I do read your posts, and that was not aimed at you, or anyone in particular. The reason I sort of assumed that you meant Kobe wasn't in the top 10 last year was because you said Kobe is in the back end of the top 10 this year, but he was worse last year. My bad.

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Y2g is a clown.saying kobe

Y2g is a clown.saying kobe isnt atop10 player.most of the posters on here no nothing and are bandwagoners. And durant does need to get better on both sides of the ball. Rudeboy was right on the money.if d

Nbanflguy
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Y2g is a clown.saying kobe

Y2g is a clown.saying kobe isnt atop10 player.most of the posters on here no nothing and are bandwagoners. And durant does need to get better on both sides of the ball. Rudeboy was right on the money.if d

Wow.... Just wow. Take a English class ASAP

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Lol, "an" English class, you

Lol, "an" English class, you need one too...

IndianaBasketball
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Lmfao

Lmfao

bangbangwayne3000
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Y2g is a clown.saying kobe

Y2g is a clown.saying kobe isnt atop10 player.most of the posters on here no nothing and are bandwagoners. And durant does need to get better on both sides of the ball. Rudeboy was right on the money.if d

bangbangwayne3000
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nbanflguy u r a below average poor poster

And u ugly to. And dum

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