[cp5Participant]

This topic has popped up numerous times on this site and I was wondering your thoughts so far? Only PGs and SGs have been released as of now. 

My Opinion I didn’t think Steph would be that high and I’m glad Ray Allen is getting some love. I’m really excited to see the top 10 centers in a few days.

PGs:

Magic, Big O, Stockton, Curry, Zeke, CP3, Nash, Kidd, Frazier, Cousy.

SGs:

Jordan, Kobe, West, Wade, Drexler, AI, Gervin, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Earl Monroe.

[True_JafiParticipant]

There’s no way Curry is ahead of Kidd, Zeke and Frazier. Their body of work is crazy. Its to early for him to be ahead of those great. If he has another 3-4 years like this one then we can debate that. But not now. IMO Kidd should be the third PG on that list.

The shooting guard position I cant argue about. Seems about correct

[True_JafiParticipant]

There’s no way Curry is ahead of Kidd, Zeke and Frazier. Their body of work is crazy. Its to early for him to be ahead of those great. If he has another 3-4 years like this one then we can debate that. But not now. IMO Kidd should be the third PG on that list.

The shooting guard position I cant argue about. Seems about correct

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I absolutely agree. Curry has really only been elite for 3-4 seasons now. I think it’s at least debateable whether he belongs on the list at all. No way he should be 4th.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I absolutely agree. Curry has really only been elite for 3-4 seasons now. I think it’s at least debateable whether he belongs on the list at all. No way he should be 4th.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

I completely disagree with espn ranking jerry west over dwyane wade. I’m also having a hard time accepting curry being ranked over Jason Kidd, who went to two finals. Kidd lost to a stacked lakers team with Shaq in his prime, but he and Dirk beat LeBron and the heat in their prime. No way is Curry ranked ahead of him. 

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

I completely disagree with espn ranking jerry west over dwyane wade. I’m also having a hard time accepting curry being ranked over Jason Kidd, who went to two finals. Kidd lost to a stacked lakers team with Shaq in his prime, but he and Dirk beat LeBron and the heat in their prime. No way is Curry ranked ahead of him. 

[TravelinTravParticipant]

 I would add Pistol Pete, and sub McGrady for Reggie Miller. Just my opinion 

[TravelinTravParticipant]

 I would add Pistol Pete, and sub McGrady for Reggie Miller. Just my opinion 

[kazamParticipant]

 I’m amazed with all the hate for Curry being ranked ahead of Nash and Kidd but no discussion of CP3 being ranked so highly. As a guy who has had little to no success in the playoffs I have a hard time seeing him on the list at all at this point. That coupled with the fact that he’s never won an MVP should almost exclude him from the list. If he can lead the Clippers to a championship or win an MVP then we can discuss his standing above Nash and Kidd. 

[kazamParticipant]

 I’m amazed with all the hate for Curry being ranked ahead of Nash and Kidd but no discussion of CP3 being ranked so highly. As a guy who has had little to no success in the playoffs I have a hard time seeing him on the list at all at this point. That coupled with the fact that he’s never won an MVP should almost exclude him from the list. If he can lead the Clippers to a championship or win an MVP then we can discuss his standing above Nash and Kidd. 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I am actually a lot more comfortable with Paul being ranked where he is over curry being ranked where he is. You can say that Paul hasn’t had success in the playoffs and its true but he has been probably the best pg in the NBA for the past decade. When you look at his overall numbers, consistency, and the impact he has on teams I’d say his overall career has been better than curry right now, even despite the lack of playoff success. I think Paul will ultimately go down as one of the best and most underappreciated players of his generation.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I am actually a lot more comfortable with Paul being ranked where he is over curry being ranked where he is. You can say that Paul hasn’t had success in the playoffs and its true but he has been probably the best pg in the NBA for the past decade. When you look at his overall numbers, consistency, and the impact he has on teams I’d say his overall career has been better than curry right now, even despite the lack of playoff success. I think Paul will ultimately go down as one of the best and most underappreciated players of his generation.

[kazamParticipant]

 Paul has certainly been in the upper standing of point guards for a long time. If you look at his accomplishments against some of the guys not on that list it may be hard to argue for his true impact.

 

 For example, Gary Payton in his first eleven seasons (since CP3 is currently in his 11th) had accomplished the following :

• DPOY
• 1st team all NBA 2x
• 2nd team all NBA 5x
• 3rd team all NBA 2x
• All Defensive 1st team 9x 
  

  Chris Paul to date has the following accomplishments:  

• ROY
  
• 1st team all NBA 4x
•  2nd team all NBA 2x
•  3rd team all NBA 1x
• All defensive first team 5X
• All defensive 2nd team 2x
• Who has had a more impressive career? It’s difficult to say for sure.
•  

[BubbaChuckParticipant]

I always thought it was funny to measure a players success mainly on his accomplishments and not on all the crazy amount of advanced stats that we have today.
I love Payton, but:
* Chris Paul led the league in APG 4 times (and is 3rd all time)
* led the league 6 times in SPG (tied for 4th all time)
* he’s a very effective shooter at .577 TS% compared to Payton’s .528 TS%
* and most importantly CP3 only turns the ball over 2.4 times a game. Compared to 2.3 SPG that’s incredible. His 13.0 Turnover percentage is the lowest from all the point guards on this list (except for Payton’s 12.8 TOV% ironically)

Chris Paul is excellent at just about everything you’d want in your point guard.
So once again, I love Payton, but Chris Paul is quietly amazing.

[BubbaChuckParticipant]

I always thought it was funny to measure a players success mainly on his accomplishments and not on all the crazy amount of advanced stats that we have today.
I love Payton, but:
* Chris Paul led the league in APG 4 times (and is 3rd all time)
* led the league 6 times in SPG (tied for 4th all time)
* he’s a very effective shooter at .577 TS% compared to Payton’s .528 TS%
* and most importantly CP3 only turns the ball over 2.4 times a game. Compared to 2.3 SPG that’s incredible. His 13.0 Turnover percentage is the lowest from all the point guards on this list (except for Payton’s 12.8 TOV% ironically)

Chris Paul is excellent at just about everything you’d want in your point guard.
So once again, I love Payton, but Chris Paul is quietly amazing.

[kazamParticipant]

 Paul has certainly been in the upper standing of point guards for a long time. If you look at his accomplishments against some of the guys not on that list it may be hard to argue for his true impact.

 

 For example, Gary Payton in his first eleven seasons (since CP3 is currently in his 11th) had accomplished the following :

• DPOY
• 1st team all NBA 2x
• 2nd team all NBA 5x
• 3rd team all NBA 2x
• All Defensive 1st team 9x 
  

  Chris Paul to date has the following accomplishments:  

• ROY
  
• 1st team all NBA 4x
•  2nd team all NBA 2x
•  3rd team all NBA 1x
• All defensive first team 5X
• All defensive 2nd team 2x
• Who has had a more impressive career? It’s difficult to say for sure.
•  

[The GoatParticipant]

I have no problem with who’s on the list, although you could raise some questions about the rankings. Some of the guys I had on the next tier down for both positions (in no particular order) are:

Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, Rajon Rondo, Tony Parker, Tim Hardaway, Fat Lever, Gaill Goodrich, Terry Porter, Mitch Richmond, Alex English, Manu Ginobili, Gary Payton, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Steve Smith, Joe Dumars, Dale Ellis, Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Dan Majerle, Chauncey Billups

Some of these players were great statistically, some won awards and/or titles, some played at a consistently high level for their careers. Im sure there are also many from before my time that I have missed.

Could you make an argument for any of the above to sneak into their respective top 10s?

What about guys who had their peak cut short? Where do they rank? Penny Hardaway, Drazen Petrovic? Derrick Rose? Reggie Lewis?

[The GoatParticipant]

I have no problem with who’s on the list, although you could raise some questions about the rankings. Some of the guys I had on the next tier down for both positions (in no particular order) are:

Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, Rajon Rondo, Tony Parker, Tim Hardaway, Fat Lever, Gaill Goodrich, Terry Porter, Mitch Richmond, Alex English, Manu Ginobili, Gary Payton, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Steve Smith, Joe Dumars, Dale Ellis, Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Dan Majerle, Chauncey Billups

Some of these players were great statistically, some won awards and/or titles, some played at a consistently high level for their careers. Im sure there are also many from before my time that I have missed.

Could you make an argument for any of the above to sneak into their respective top 10s?

What about guys who had their peak cut short? Where do they rank? Penny Hardaway, Drazen Petrovic? Derrick Rose? Reggie Lewis?

[morestealsthanscoresParticipant]

 i’m just waiting for ESPN to rank lebron ahead of bird and break the internet

[morestealsthanscoresParticipant]

 i’m just waiting for ESPN to rank lebron ahead of bird and break the internet

[SteezGawdParticipant]

*2 Chainz truuuuuu*!

Also wondering if this the year Shaq finally gets ranked higher than Wilt or is that 100 pt. game still more significant than 3 championships as the most dominant player in the game? 

And is KD ranked 3rd all-time or better yet what if he wins a title or 3 does ESPN have the balls to rank him above Larry Legend? 

[SteezGawdParticipant]

*2 Chainz truuuuuu*!

Also wondering if this the year Shaq finally gets ranked higher than Wilt or is that 100 pt. game still more significant than 3 championships as the most dominant player in the game? 

And is KD ranked 3rd all-time or better yet what if he wins a title or 3 does ESPN have the balls to rank him above Larry Legend? 

[thetruth87Participant]

 I think Walt Clyde Frazier is getting shafted on this list. I would put him ahead of Curry (as of now),  Nash, CP3, and Kidd. Walt is right up there in Win shares with all of them despite playing way fewer seasons, has 2 rings, and is one of the best defenders at the PG position ever….

[thetruth87Participant]

 I think Walt Clyde Frazier is getting shafted on this list. I would put him ahead of Curry (as of now),  Nash, CP3, and Kidd. Walt is right up there in Win shares with all of them despite playing way fewer seasons, has 2 rings, and is one of the best defenders at the PG position ever….

[MJBrownParticipant]

For Gary Payton to not be a top 10 of of all time is a Travesty

[MJBrownParticipant]

For Gary Payton to not be a top 10 of of all time is a Travesty

[TeslaBallerParticipant]

It’s simply too early in his career to put Curry on the list at all. So he comes off and it has to be Gary Payton or Kevin Johnson added on. Well it would be Payton added but just wanted to show KJ some love. 20+pts, 10+assts what 3 years straight, dude came into the league ballin. Remember when there were at least 2 PGs who averaged 10+ assists? 

CP3 is too high on the list but he is top 10 despite his lack of success in the playoffs.

The SG list is as perfect as 1 of these list could be. 

 

 

[TeslaBallerParticipant]

It’s simply too early in his career to put Curry on the list at all. So he comes off and it has to be Gary Payton or Kevin Johnson added on. Well it would be Payton added but just wanted to show KJ some love. 20+pts, 10+assts what 3 years straight, dude came into the league ballin. Remember when there were at least 2 PGs who averaged 10+ assists? 

CP3 is too high on the list but he is top 10 despite his lack of success in the playoffs.

The SG list is as perfect as 1 of these list could be. 

 

 

[rongataParticipant]

 no way you leave gary payton off this list 

 

[rongataParticipant]

 no way you leave gary payton off this list 

 

[mgreener_34Participant]

These lists are very interesting. I’m surprised they would put Miller above guys like Dumars, and to be honest, I do think Manu is a top 10 SG all time. Just because he came off the bench doesn’t mean much to me, because when he did start, he put up 16.5/4.3/4.2/1.5 on 47/37/81 shooting in 350 games. That’s pretty impressive, and he always steped it up in the playoffs. If he isn’t in the top 10, he def. gets some honorable mention from me. 

I also have no problem with the PG list, but I would switch Stockton and Zeke, and move Curry and Paul to the back of the line until later on in their careers. Paul still has to prove he can be a winner, and end a season on a good note to move him above guys like Kidd and Nash imo. Those guys went to war in the PO’s and never backed down from the challenge. Can’t say the same about CP3 until last year. 

I also think Gary Payton is being extremely disrespected here. He was by far the best defensive PG during his time in the NBA, and was a great scorer as well putting up nearly 20 ppg for TEN STRAIT SEASONS. Combine that to 3 trips to the finals with 3 different teams, his longevity, and the fact that he was able to be a good role-player at the end of his career puts him above a lot of guys on this list to me. He is def. a top 10 PG all time. 

For the people who are saying it’s too early to put Curry on the all-time list, I disagree. People were already claiming that LeBron was the best SF of all time before he left CLE for MIA, and he accomplished far less then than Curry has now, so I completely agree with having Curry on this list, especially when the candidate pool is maybe only 15 or so deep. It’s not like he’s going to get worse, we’ve already seen him play and know he’s one of the most talented PG’s ever. He has an MVP, Ring, and is shattering records every year. Give him two to three more years, and he’s set, just like it took LeBron those years in Miami to solidify his legacy

[mgreener_34Participant]

These lists are very interesting. I’m surprised they would put Miller above guys like Dumars, and to be honest, I do think Manu is a top 10 SG all time. Just because he came off the bench doesn’t mean much to me, because when he did start, he put up 16.5/4.3/4.2/1.5 on 47/37/81 shooting in 350 games. That’s pretty impressive, and he always steped it up in the playoffs. If he isn’t in the top 10, he def. gets some honorable mention from me. 

I also have no problem with the PG list, but I would switch Stockton and Zeke, and move Curry and Paul to the back of the line until later on in their careers. Paul still has to prove he can be a winner, and end a season on a good note to move him above guys like Kidd and Nash imo. Those guys went to war in the PO’s and never backed down from the challenge. Can’t say the same about CP3 until last year. 

I also think Gary Payton is being extremely disrespected here. He was by far the best defensive PG during his time in the NBA, and was a great scorer as well putting up nearly 20 ppg for TEN STRAIT SEASONS. Combine that to 3 trips to the finals with 3 different teams, his longevity, and the fact that he was able to be a good role-player at the end of his career puts him above a lot of guys on this list to me. He is def. a top 10 PG all time. 

For the people who are saying it’s too early to put Curry on the all-time list, I disagree. People were already claiming that LeBron was the best SF of all time before he left CLE for MIA, and he accomplished far less then than Curry has now, so I completely agree with having Curry on this list, especially when the candidate pool is maybe only 15 or so deep. It’s not like he’s going to get worse, we’ve already seen him play and know he’s one of the most talented PG’s ever. He has an MVP, Ring, and is shattering records every year. Give him two to three more years, and he’s set, just like it took LeBron those years in Miami to solidify his legacy

[daggers818Participant]

Totally agree about The Glove.  I have him ranked only behind Magic, Oscar, Zeke, and Walt Frazier (who also gets little love).  Payton was probably the best defensive point guard ever (Frazier was also great, 7x 1st team All-D).  I hated Payton when he was with the Sonics because he really talked nasty trash, but could back it up.

[daggers818Participant]

Totally agree about The Glove.  I have him ranked only behind Magic, Oscar, Zeke, and Walt Frazier (who also gets little love).  Payton was probably the best defensive point guard ever (Frazier was also great, 7x 1st team All-D).  I hated Payton when he was with the Sonics because he really talked nasty trash, but could back it up.

[TripleDoubleScoutParticipant]

 West before Wade is almost criminal. Clearly being penalized for the LeBron/Bosh "superfriends" years, where Wade voluntarily sacrificed his role and stature for long term team success. People so easily forget Wade was a HOF NBA champion BEFORE Lebron tagged along. Respect for West of course, and he should be on the list, but cmon…

[TripleDoubleScoutParticipant]

 West before Wade is almost criminal. Clearly being penalized for the LeBron/Bosh "superfriends" years, where Wade voluntarily sacrificed his role and stature for long term team success. People so easily forget Wade was a HOF NBA champion BEFORE Lebron tagged along. Respect for West of course, and he should be on the list, but cmon…

[TeslaBallerParticipant]

Check out Jerry West’s playoff #s there insane. His career regular season and playoff averages are better than Kobe in Points, Rebounds, Assists and FG% with no 3 point line. I love Wade but West was that dude, there’s a reason he’s the logo of the NBA. 

[TeslaBallerParticipant]

Check out Jerry West’s playoff #s there insane. His career regular season and playoff averages are better than Kobe in Points, Rebounds, Assists and FG% with no 3 point line. I love Wade but West was that dude, there’s a reason he’s the logo of the NBA. 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I have no problem with west being ranked ahead of Wade. Sure, he played in a weaker era overall but that shouldn’t matter in this debate. You can only play in the era that your in and for a long time (before jordan) west was unanimously the best shooting guard ever and it wasn’t even close. You could make a case for Wade over west, but let’s not pretend it’s a slam dunk. West’s career was pretty spectacular.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I have no problem with west being ranked ahead of Wade. Sure, he played in a weaker era overall but that shouldn’t matter in this debate. You can only play in the era that your in and for a long time (before jordan) west was unanimously the best shooting guard ever and it wasn’t even close. You could make a case for Wade over west, but let’s not pretend it’s a slam dunk. West’s career was pretty spectacular.

[eyefortalentParticipant]

 Monroe was clearly better than Ray Allen and Reggie Miller and I like Mitch Richmond better than both of them too. Richmond didn’t play on teams where he had those great playoff moments, but his skill level was better than Miller and Allen.

[eyefortalentParticipant]

 Monroe was clearly better than Ray Allen and Reggie Miller and I like Mitch Richmond better than both of them too. Richmond didn’t play on teams where he had those great playoff moments, but his skill level was better than Miller and Allen.

[rongataParticipant]

I agree richmond was better talent wise, but I think the playoff moments and the bigshots are what seems to be taking allen and miller over him. Which is the case for a lot of players 

[rongataParticipant]

I agree richmond was better talent wise, but I think the playoff moments and the bigshots are what seems to be taking allen and miller over him. Which is the case for a lot of players 

[r377Participant]

I like Nash over cp3 and Curry. 2xMVP, lead the league in assists 5 times while shooting 50-40-90 most of the time in his prime

[r377Participant]

I like Nash over cp3 and Curry. 2xMVP, lead the league in assists 5 times while shooting 50-40-90 most of the time in his prime

[daggers818Participant]

Dumars, Jo Jo White, Paul Westphal, Sam Jones, Dave Bing are other notables for SG.

Not sure where Dennis Johnson belongs (I have him as a point guard), but he was great.  One of my favorite all-time players because he did whatever it took to win.  Very, very underrated.

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Yeah I feel like they overlooked some other SGs from the 60s/70s in favour of Monroe that I would personally rank above the Pearl.

Maravich, who was similar to Monroe in that he was one of the most exciting players of his time but had a relatively short prime. But Pistol still made more All-Star teams, more All-NBA squads and had better stats across the board.

Dave Bing, another hybrid PG/SG who had an excellent career albeit with some mediocre teams around him. 

Sam Jones, one of the integral players on the Celtics dynasty of the 60s, a ten time NBA champion and 5 time All-Star, he was known for his scoring ability in the clutch, 

And the guy I would probably have on my top 10 list of shooting guards, but I don’t think has gotten a single mention on this thread yet: Hal Greer. A model of consistency over his 15 year career, Greer made 10 All-Star games and was a seven time All-NBA second teamer (never making the first team because of a certain Jerry West). He contributed in every aspect of the game and was a key part of the dominant 1967 Philly team that dismantled the Celtics in the playoffs on their way to a championship. 

 

 

 

 

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Yeah I feel like they overlooked some other SGs from the 60s/70s in favour of Monroe that I would personally rank above the Pearl.

Maravich, who was similar to Monroe in that he was one of the most exciting players of his time but had a relatively short prime. But Pistol still made more All-Star teams, more All-NBA squads and had better stats across the board.

Dave Bing, another hybrid PG/SG who had an excellent career albeit with some mediocre teams around him. 

Sam Jones, one of the integral players on the Celtics dynasty of the 60s, a ten time NBA champion and 5 time All-Star, he was known for his scoring ability in the clutch, 

And the guy I would probably have on my top 10 list of shooting guards, but I don’t think has gotten a single mention on this thread yet: Hal Greer. A model of consistency over his 15 year career, Greer made 10 All-Star games and was a seven time All-NBA second teamer (never making the first team because of a certain Jerry West). He contributed in every aspect of the game and was a key part of the dominant 1967 Philly team that dismantled the Celtics in the playoffs on their way to a championship. 

 

 

 

 

[daggers818Participant]

Dumars, Jo Jo White, Paul Westphal, Sam Jones, Dave Bing are other notables for SG.

Not sure where Dennis Johnson belongs (I have him as a point guard), but he was great.  One of my favorite all-time players because he did whatever it took to win.  Very, very underrated.

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 personally I think you Have Kobe and Zeke rated to high, I love Stockton, but understand it is hard to move him ahead of Magic and O. I  also think you have to find a spot for Maravich and Payton completly biased but out of personal love would want Arizin also included, but he could be as a small forward also.

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 personally I think you Have Kobe and Zeke rated to high, I love Stockton, but understand it is hard to move him ahead of Magic and O. I  also think you have to find a spot for Maravich and Payton completly biased but out of personal love would want Arizin also included, but he could be as a small forward also.

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 I don’t love the order, but I am okay with the inclusions. I’d probably have Manu and Glove in, but I can see why each is on the bubble respectively (GP had a short prime, Manu sacrificed individual glory for team success).  Curry is way too high, but that’s how recency bias works.

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 I don’t love the order, but I am okay with the inclusions. I’d probably have Manu and Glove in, but I can see why each is on the bubble respectively (GP had a short prime, Manu sacrificed individual glory for team success).  Curry is way too high, but that’s how recency bias works.

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 Okay, and then they put Durant at some stupidly high spot. What?

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

 Okay, and then they put Durant at some stupidly high spot. What?

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

 Yeah I saw that. KD at #4, ahead of Elgin Baylor, Pippin, Havlicek and Barry.

I’d probably have KD at #7 and Pippin at #8. Sure Durant’s still young but he’s got 4 scoring titles and 5 All-NBA first team selections. He should def be top 10, but #4 is too high at this point in his career. 

 

 

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

 Yeah I saw that. KD at #4, ahead of Elgin Baylor, Pippin, Havlicek and Barry.

I’d probably have KD at #7 and Pippin at #8. Sure Durant’s still young but he’s got 4 scoring titles and 5 All-NBA first team selections. He should def be top 10, but #4 is too high at this point in his career. 

 

 

[Author]

Posts