no the srbadger guy who said Duncan and nash are not international according to him because they played college ball
you think I'm from Europe?
I love this topic, I personally think Garnett is better then Duncan not by much though. For the record Duncan has been playing center for like the last 7 years, he toke jump balls and always guarded other teams centers and vice versa. Garnett is an amazing offensive player whos the idiots who think he isnt. He was second in the league in scoring his MVP years and is one of the best passing big men of our time. And come on he played for Minny, no free agent wants to sign their and when u can take a team with a 38 year old cassel and a old spreewell to the western conference finals u are a man. Duncan is quite amazing to. Everything he did was cold and calculated, you could know what he was gunna do and not stop it. But he fell into a dream situation with the spurs and that front office has done everything to keep that engine running. Duncan is the main guy no doubt about it but the front office always gave him the best chance to win
Idk. but I think Enes Kanter talks like he isn't from around here.
He is from Turkey, I just meant he was on kentucky's roster but never played so does that count according to the badger guy?
But like I said I consdier him, Duncan, Nash Kleiza etc. international
Just because you have a lot of talent on your team doesn't mean you automatically are a contender or an elite team.
Yeah Marbury and Brandon put up big nunbers but combined they played 22 seasons and made it out of the 1st round 2 times total not exactly winners.
Marko Jaric also was the starting Pg for the majority of 05-06. Cassel played only 2 season w/Minnesota averaging 7 and 5 asts not exactly grt numbers for an PG who was in his 11 and 12 season.
Twolves also got into some bad matchups in the 1st round against better teams like the Spurs, Rockets, Sonics and Lakers.
In 2000 playoffs they struggled losing to very good Blazers team which should've won the Finals that year. Outside of that series and the 2002 playoffs he's played pretty well in the playoffs.
As for Billups he was nothing special with the Twolves for the 2 yrs he was there at least compared to the player he ended up being for the Pistons.
Defensively the Twolves were awful many of those seasons finishing 23, 17, 25, 16, 11, 14, 13, 18, 7, 9, 8, 19,
The year they made the Conf. Finals they were ranked 7th the following year the offense was weak and dropped to 16th.
They never put a solid big man next to KG guys like Joe Smith, Nesterovic, Olowakandi, Cherokee Parks, Sam Mitchell, Dean Garrett, Gary Trent, Loren Woods, Marc Jackson, Mark Madsen, Craig Smith, Mark Blount, Eddie Griffin, Adrea Patterson were all underachievers.
Also Gugliotta played with Minnesota from 95-98 when Minny was not that good and obviously KG was very young.
Kevin McHale has to take a lot of blame for the team he helped put together in Minnesota too. They lost 3 of 5 1st rounders from 2000-2005
Yes I know 06 Wolves sucked and defense sucked but Duncan was a one man defense in his prime like Doc Howard. Tim Duncan won a title with Rasho though, and Eddie Griffin was the man he was like Rasheed Wallace except did not gets as much coochie sadly.
I'm not going to lie. I read Dede's first few posts and from then on I didn't even bother and just gave him negs. I feel like a bad guy... Sort of... But I also really hate when you post those page long stats that are largely irrelevant to whatever it is you are arguing
Let's just agree that Manu is the best south American player ever
If you are born in Europe but you play college and a lot of times even high school basketball here in America, then how can you call them international prospects or players? An international player has to at least have experience playing overseas don't they? I would consider Kanter international to answer your question. He signed with Kentucky and moved here but grew up playing overseas including for his Olympic team if I'm not mistaken and never played a single game for Kentucky. Tim Duncan grew up playing in America, he went to wake forest, all of his experience basketball wise has been American. Same with Nash. So how can they be considered international players? Nowitzki? Sure. I just don't see how you can base it off of where you were born.
i think Duncan is the type of player who made everyone around him better (not saying Garnett doesnt)...Duncan would have probably won 1 or 2 and Garnett maybe 1...people forget the Twin Towers baby!
This was a good topic...
I liked Kevin Garnett better than Tim Duncan. Duncan was boring, while Garnett was flashy, talented and just so much fun to watch. 20, 10 and 5... Plus a block and a steal too. I used to love his move in the post where he'd hit you with the reverse pivot and then give you about 3-4 ball fakes before shooting it right over you. He could handle the ball. He could defend guards. He was so talented. Elite athlete.
However, Duncan was better. He was better for two reasons. One, he was more of a defensive building block when it came to protecting the rim. Garnett was an amazing defender, but he didn't really protect the basket. Two, because Duncan was a true top option and go-to player on offense. I thought KG kind of shied away from being the go-to player down the stretch of games. Duncan was more fundamentally sound and a better back to the basket post player.
Garnett had the tools to be the best power forward ever, but I thought he drifted around the perimeter too often and like I said above... Sometimes didn't want the ball down the stretch.
If Duncan had been on the T-Wolves, I doubt he'd have won as many championships as he has. RC Buford is a great GM, and Popovich is one of the greatest coaches ever. If it wasn't for RC drafting huge steals like Manu, Tony, DeJuan Blair, and Kawhi Leonard, and Popovich squeezing the maximum amount of production out of guys like Matt Bonner and Danny Green, Duncan would have a much harder time winning like he has. David Kahn would put Timmy out of his misery by drafting PG after PG until he finds a decent one in 5 years.
I'm just sayin', but as great as Kevin Garnett is, he never won a title in Minny for a reason.
I guarantee you that Duncan wouldve led the Wolves out of the 1st round atleast in 1 of those years that KG didnt. With that being said, Duncan also underachieved. There were times were he was flat out the best player in the series against the Lakers but didnt dominate like he shouldve. They had non one to stop him. He couldve averaged 35ppg if he wanted but he didnt have that in him and they lost
RC Buford deserves credit. Coach Pop deserves credit. But there's a reason Tim Duncan will go down as arguably the greatest power forward ever. It's because he makes his teammates better. Over the years, a lot of his teammates have changed, but the results are the same.
Sure, he's had consistent teammates with Manu Ginobli and Tony Parker, but they haven't always been healthy.
Duncan makes the game easy for anyone that suits up with him. He makes average players look good.
WizofOz, somtimes just because you can put up 35 or 40 on a good percentage doesn't mean that your team is better off with you doing so. Remember Dwight last year, he had those two monster games against the Hawks, but they lost both, and remember, Duncan could've easily averaged 28 and 10 for about 7 years straight if the Spurs were a bit more up tempo. They were really slow and methodical, but it played to their strengths and got them 4 championships, and I love how coach Pop sdjusts to his personel and is now an up tempo three point shooting team built around Tony and Timmy and the depth of their bench.
The weird think about Duncan was he was a choker, Lebron gets categorized as such when it is not the case Duncan would get tight in his sphincter at the foul line in the clutch though he was showed up in big games and other late game aspects. Probably would of won 6 titles if he had looser booty muscles at the line
Duncan's team were pretty much always better then Garnett's. But for the reasons IndianaBasketball stated, Duncan was still the better player. Duncan on the Wolves might've won a ring, and Garnett probably would've won a few in San Antonio.
^What? I don't remember one instance where he choked. Yes he might have been outplayed by Dirk in 2006, but Dirk was amazing in that series, and Duncan was great as well.
And when you talk about free throws and Duncan, it's a bit odd. In 01-02 he was an 80% foul shooter, then in 03-04 he was a 59% foul shooter. Ever since he's had a couple seasons around 62%-63%, but mostly he's been around 69%-73%. Lebron has been anwhere from 69% to 78%, which brings his career average to around 75%.
But back to the point, Duncan was not a choker, he was the guy that went head to head with Dirk, Amare, and other big guys, during their 2003 championship run, he averaged 25 15 and 5 and 3 blocks, he was a beast, I never remember him choking, hell do you remember that threee he hit against he Suns when Shaq was there? Do you remember those epic battles between Shaq, a couple of which he won. Duncan was a calm and composed assasain that could put up really good numbers, but helped you win. Some people look for those guady 30 and 12 numbers, but like I said earlier in the thread, they were a slow paced team.
Here are the Spurs' offensive ranks in ppg from 1999-2000 season till this season(it's out of 29 for the first couple seasons, and then 30 starting in the 04-05 season when the Bobcats joined) 21, 12 10, 12, 19, 18, 21, 14, 28, 23, 15, 6, 2.
So as you can see, the past couple seasons they've really picked up the scoring, which is why I think Pop is the coach of the year, when he realized his team was slipping he changed their identity according to the personel, and it produced wins. But for most of the eyars they're either in the late-mid or the early-mid of the pack, and keep in mind this is still that the worst win percentage they've had since Duncan was drafted was .610, and that was a 50 win season in 10, and the rest of the seasons(other than the lockout seasons) they had at least 54 wins.
These are the Spurs' rank in opponents points allowed from 98-99 till this season. 3, 1, 3, 3, 3, 1, 1, 2, 1, 3, 2, 8, 14, 16.
They were a top 3 defensive team for every single year form 99- 09, an 11 year span, and the anchor of that league leading defense, Tim Duncan. If they had picked up the pace, they might not have been as successfull, but I garuntee you Timmy would have some guady Shaq-esque stats.(Not comparing the two, just saying Duncan would've had 29 and 13 if the Spurs were a run'n gun team, at least a faster team.
Just noticed the pace rankings on Basketball-Reference, and this supports my arguement even better, here are their rankings as far as pace goes, the slower the pace, the lower the rank. From 99 to this year, 19, 24, 23, 19, 20, 19, 23, 23, 27, 28, 26, 20, 14, 7.
As you can see, they were always just around the bottom third in pace, and as Timmy got a bit older(If you look at his stats, you'll notice they started toning down his mintues when he was around 28. He still got 33 or 34 per night, but not 40 like he did early on) they went even slower, and now they've picked it up a bit. They weren't too slow, but you can easily argue that Timmy's numbers would have been inflated and better on a team that was around 10th rather than 20th.
Duncan was a choker???? LMFAO ...minus one for you sir
I think my reply is a bit biased...lol. I prefer Duncan's presence on offense as well as defense over Garnett. Garnett was sesnational talent, but Duncan is the GOAT of PF's.