Good game so far. I have to say, even as a Duke fan, I have been one of Mason Plumlee's biggest doubters. But he has improved so much this year. His shots haven't been falling tonight, but he has been showing off some very nice post moves to go along with his athleticism and he has been rebounding very well and playing pretty good D on Sullinger.
Austin Rivers also just had a nice finish with his left hand, and he went to it earlier too. You can tell he's been working on it.
I'd like Duke a lot more if they had a better point guard...
Yeah Austin Rivers is getting to the basket with no problem
I like the way that Buford has been playing this game and this season so far. If he puts together a complete season, I think he would be a sleeper in the 2012 draft. He's perfect for a role playing spot for a contender.
Whoooo.... Rivers crossed the sh*t out of that kid.
I agree Indianabasketball. I think that Quin Cook will probably play a bigger role later in the season. Cook is the only true 1 on the roster and he looks pretty comfortable on offense. I'd love to see a lineup of
I think a
with Dawkins playing big minutes off the bench.
The problem is that right now Cook is simply terrible on D and that won't fly under Mike Krzyzewski.
Thomas, aka Lucky Lefty, is making Indiana proud right now.
Sullinger reminds me of Elton Brand...
Yeah I agree on Buford. If the Bulls don't find a SG this year, I'd really like them to snag him in the upcoming draft. I remember a few year back, Aran had Buford as a top 3 pick. Obviously he's not that kind of talent, but he would be a great fit for a contender who's lacking a shooting guard. Really hoping he slips to the Bulls in 2012.
Whoooo.... Rivers crossed the sh*t out of that kid. lmao, yeah he did
Sullinger reminds me of Elton Brand...
Yeah I see the Brand similarities. I don't think he'll ever be as good as Brand was in the league, but I see the comparison, minus the shot blocking.
I definitely see the Brand Sullinger comparison, although I think a healty, in-shape Brand was probably more athletic. I also see a little Kevin Love in him too.
Yeah I agree, Brand was more athletic at the same age. I'm still bitter about the Bulls trading Brand for f*cking Tyson Chandler....Makes me sick, hmmm let's trade a PF who averaged 20 and 10 his first two years in the league for a rail thin high school project center. F
That first half was a 20 minute infomercial on the part of OSU for why they should be ranked #1.
It also served the purpose of reminding people that Mason Plumlee should not be a lottery pick.
Yea... OSU looks good. I'm impressed. I've been watching sloppy play since the season started. This is the best ball I've watched so far.
This is about to get ugly...
What does everybody think of the Jamal Crawford comparison for Rivers?
Am I the only guy who is a huge fan of Miles Plumlee??
I think he is a NBA player... Just my opinion...
yeah, im pretty sure your the only guy...
Duke is not going to win if Curry and Rivers keep hogging the ball. How many touches has Ryan Kelly gotten tonight?
Austin Rivers mentallity reminds me a bit of Allen Iverson. He is an extremely confident basketball player, no fear, and undeniable talent. Although he is also not quite fundimental, he seems stubborn and can sometimes come across as cocky. The good thing is the kid has unbelievable speed and his crossover is one of the best I've ever seen on national television. Im sure Coach K will be able to make him fundimentally sound "as a PG" within his freshman year.
Right now the thing Rivers has most in common with A.I. is the fact that he is a scorer, who is not a SG, and is definitely a PG. Short of Derrick Rose not many winning teams have a score first PG, even when Westbrook became a score first PG OKC self-destructed. He has court vision, and he can make the passes, he just needs to learn his role...instead of watching Kobe Bryant tapes he should watch some Deron Williams tapes. If he learns his role the sky is the limit for him, but as of now I see him playing a Jamal Crawford type role in the NBA.
Sullinger is super unathletic....
William Buford will be a solid rotational SG for a team. He's a nice off-ball scorer. He can shoot as far as 22 ft off screens with his jumper, that is a skill that will land him a spot for a team.
Sullinger is GREAT at using his wide waist to seal down low for shots. He also has remarkable touch. I like the Brand comparison. I don't think he'll be a very good defender in the NBA, but not as bad as a Kevin Love though. Especially since he's lost excess weight.
I like Deshaun Thomas, he's an unorthodox scorer who can be a mismatch. He needs a little polish, but he's got a knack for scoring.
Austin Rivers needs more time for the game to slow down. He doesn't let the game come to him, and he needs more strength. He has the tools to be an electric scorer and a potential combo guard (he's not a guy I'd trust at PG right now though), and he flashes it for stretches, but he needs time. It's no big deal in the grand scheme because he's a Fr., but he's under a microscope so people want results quick. It'll come sooner or later.
Games like this are not ideal for guys like Ryan Kelly and Mason Plumlee. They play with too much finesse for the physical OSU bigs.
Duke needs a real floor general. Seth Curry is a guy who should play PG in spurts, but not for a whole game. He's not true enough PG for that. Maybe if he could function like an Ashton Gibbs-type, who brings the ball up the court, passes to get into the offense and then works off screens to utilize his shot, Duke would be better off.
Aaron Craft is a steady floor leader. He makes a play or 2 that shows that he's a limited talent and athlete, but nothing too costly because he makes so many other plays. He's strong.
Rivers needs to go back to school for at least another year.. 2 more would do him wonders...
I don't know why you don't think Rivers can play the 2. He's 6'5 in shoes. There is no need for him to try and transition to playing PG. Also, I don't know how much of him you've watched this year, but he's been doing a pretty good job playing within himself and not forcing bad shots.
As I've said before, I see him having a Monta Ellis type career, although hopefully on better teams.
Definitely! I think it would benefit too. Especially if they can bring in a true PG, he really could flourish.
Was that Scoonie Penn sitting next to Michael Redd?
Rivers cant play SG because he is too ball dominant...it's his nature. He has to either develop some off the ball skills to be a fulltime SG, or develop some fundimentals, and playmaking skills to become a fulltime PG. Right now he is stuck inbetween.
after seeing this whole game...
The top two teams are down to UNC and OSU
i knw UNC lost... but they will get there mojo back... there to good not to
and i was not expecting a blow out in this game... like dicky v said, duke struggles with athletic teams
seth curry, dawkins and kelly sturrgled to get any shots off
ohio state and unc are kinda similar
both are big teams, athletic, can score in and out, and two point guards that can really play ball (craft is underrated in my book)
the only difference is that UNC isnt on the same level as the buckeyes on defense
Actually, the top 2 teams are Kentucky and Ohio State... LoL
screw the rankings...
kentucky at this point in the season isnt better than UNC or OSU
i wasnt mad lol
ill be honest, i relly dont know what people see in UNC. they have barnes- yeah hes great. and marshall is a great pg. but besides that i think there bench isnt all THAT strong. i dont like tyler zellers game, and henson is good, but i need to see more from him.
Your crazy.. I am far from a UNC fan but you are wrong there..
Barns is legit.. He is probably the next Carmelo Anthony.. If not, he at least has Luol Deng's offensive game.. The guy is legit.
Marshall is probably a NBA player and if not, he is on hell of a PG for college basketball.. Best PG in the ACC..
Zeller could start in the NBA right now.. That doesnt say much about him, but more about the lack of Cs at the next level.. However, he is very very good.. IDK if there is another C in the ACC that can match him.. Anthony Davis is nice but I want to see them head to head..
Henson has come a long way and is an NBA player.. No question.. Great shot blocker and rebounder.. Super athlete and has shown some offense of late..
Also, Hairston does his job very well...
Another guy that I really like is McAdoo.. He isnt producing right now but by the end of the year, he will be legit..
Like I said, I am not a UNC fan but you cant deny what they have..
Zeller would not start in the NBA right now. He is too weak defensively and would stuggle a lot offensively with PF's with length and/or athleticism in the NBA.
Duke will be a top 5 team later on in the year but right now they need to find there identity because none of there players have been consistent at all
BUT I think Austin Rivers will become the leader of this team
I think right now OSU and UNC are the top 2 teams. But Kentucky and Duke have A LOT of potential to be hunting for that national championship by the end of the year. Both teams imo just need better PG play to make their high powered offenses run more smoothly.
Teague has been erratic with turnovers but that can be adjusted with time and Seth Curry should just stay on off ball lol he can't create his own shot so why should he be allowed to create for others?
All in all Duke just had a REALLY bad game and OSU could not miss. If both teams played like they usually do, and some suspect officiating was taken out (cough cough Teddy cough Valentine) then OSU wins by less than 10 points.
I think Tyler Thornton should get more time at pg for duke
Thornton could not play against OSU. He looked completely overmatched as did Curry and Dawkins. Kelly had a bad game too becasue he relies on a kick-out for an open three or a mediocre post move which was not gonna happen tonight. Rivers looked good but he was a ball-stopper which he needs to work on. One of the only good things Dickie V said all night was he needs to learn to play without the ball.
A few things.
1) I am with BTPH about the middle Plumlee. Why would he be a lottery pick? He has some ok flashes but i just don't see a lottery pick. He is athletic and can use it to catch lobs and block a shot or 2. He isn't very quick facing the basket. He is a decent passer but at this point I just don't see lottery pick.
2) Austin Rivers looked good last night. Ohio St kept Duke off the 3pt line very well and Rivers was the only guy that could do anything. So if he forced a little bit, I don't blame him. He still got to the rim whenever he wanted, made some good passes on drives, and even hit a 3. He is going to be a good player. The way he gets to the rim reminds me some of Dwayne Wade(JUST the way he gets to the rim NOT a comparison). He would benefit greatly working on his PG skills. Doesn't need to be a PG but would make him even more dangerous.
3) Sullinger looks like a good player for the NBA but his athleticism is kind of glaring at this point. He uses his body so well but with the athletes and length of the NBA he may struggle early on with finishing inside. Not saying he will be a bust but he may struggle some.
4) The first Plumlee should be a NBA player. He is athletic and strong. Not a starter or anything but could be a big man on the end of a bench that plays hard.
5) Duke is not an elite team. They have real trouble scoring if they can't hit the 3 and that will come back to bite them later. They aren't a top 20 team by February, imo.
i cant see sullinger being a good nba player 1 hes not 6'10 looks alot more like 6'7,6'8, 2 hes super unathletic reminds me of a smaller al jefferson and puts up what i like to call fat moves using his girth against smaller opponents not saying a team wont be dumb and take him top 5 but i dont think he should go top 5, hes a great college player but thats it
i personally think coach k should run a dribble drive offense with Austin Rivers being the pg hes the only player on duke who can handle the ball and make plays, i mean he changed his offense for kyrie i think he should try with austin because agaisnt top talent the rest of the blue devils seemed out classed, austin rivers will be a stud and imo the most talented player in the acc
I can see Sullinger being a good NBA player but I do not think he is a top 5 player in this draft. Or he is a top 5 player right now but potentially there are more than 5 players that could be better NBA players.
i would agree with you guys but changed my mind..
in my opinion Jared hasn't the highest ceiling but his floor is really high..
even if he isn't 6'10 he is definitely 6'9 those 6'7 predictions are way off, he has 7'1 wingspan too and besides that he isn't that much different from Zach or K-Love..he will easily score in the post against slimmer guys while against long players he could struggle but he still will score in the post because of rebounding footwork and pick&roll play and he is much improved shooter..watching how hard he works i believe he will get even slimmer and will show his 3point range one day too..even if you don't think he could be like Zach or Love he is really better than Big baby who still would be a starter on bordeline playoff team
I agree with you he is a starter, my argument is should he be a top 5 pick? As of right now he is a top 5 player in this class but will he be top 5, 5 years from now? I am not so sure. I don't think he will be an all star like Kevin Love or the player Zach Randolph is. I think he is more like a 14 & 9 guy. Definately a starter on a good team but is that good enough for top 5 in this (projected) class?
Lol, for the people saying Rivers needs to stay 2 years.....naw man, if you saw him last night and the Maui tourney you can tell his game will translate in the NBA, 6'4 or 6'5 in shoes, quick first step and good ball handling gets him the lane, and crazy range on the jumper, he doesnt need another year, dude is a beast.
He will need to work on finishing around the rim and defense before he's ready to really be an effective player in the NBA. I could see him struggling to score efficiently or play winning basketball if he doesn't work on getting stronger and understanding helpside D, he could face the same types of struggles OJ Mayo has in the NBA with his drive and finish game otherwise. He struggles to finish around the rim when he faces athleticism. He has the upside and he'll likely go top 10 if he comes out, but just some things he needs to work on to really be the type of player he has the potential to be.
I'm STILL not too impressed with Rivers. Not saying he isn't talented. He can score. He's quick. Great quickness off of the dribble and a good change of pace. He's fun to watch, don't get me wrong.
I just think he's too ball dominate and I just don't think he has enough talent for that to translate over to the NBA. He's not Dwayne Wade, LeBron James, Brandon Roy, etc, etc. IF he doesn't learn to play off of the ball and a team game, he's going to end up like OJ Mayo. That's honestly who he reminds me of...
I know we've talked about this before, and I agree with some of your concerns. But you have to keep in mind that Rivers has already come a long way. He is putting forth effort on defense, he isn't really shooting Duke out of games, he has done a pretty good job distributing the ball and he has been working on his left hand.
I agree that he needs to become less ball dominant, but I think part of the way he is playing now is due to the fact that he is really the only player in Duke's starting lineup who can create his own shot. But even still he isn't pounding the air out of the ball like he did in highschool. Last night we really got exposed, and Rivers and Mason Plumlee were the only two players who didn't seem starstruck. He has shown the ability to knock down a catch and shoot jumper, the problem is that this team doesn't have a lot of players who can create those opportunities.
This year he has responded well to many of his critisisms, generally not pouting more than any other star freshman and playing pretty well within Duke's team concept. There is also talk that he will stay another year, particulary that his father wants him to, and I think would go a long way in advancing his game.
I don't think anything that you're saying is really wrong, but it seems like you are always reluctant to give him credit. He isn't there yet, but he has improved on many of his weakness and shown a willingness to learn and that gives me hope about his future as a pro.
Also, while I think Rivers will be better than this, I see his mid-level comparison being much more like a Jamal Crawford than an OJ Mayo. Mayo really struggles to get into the lane against NBA level athletes and I think Rivers has enough quicknes that that won't really be a problem for him. But like Mayo he also has a very nice jumper with deep range. So I think even if he doesn't reach his full potential he can still be a volume scoring 2 off the bench, who can go off at any time but might shoot some poor percentages when he's off.
I don't have anything against Rivers at all. I'm just not impressed... I mean, I'd give him credit if that's what I felt. His attitude has been fine. He's not impressed me as a defender, but he's been giving effort and has been solid.
I just am not impressed just yet. He needs to learn to play a team game. Playing without the ball. Catching and shooting the ball without always have to dribble first. Moving without the basketball instead of just standing there waiting for the ball to be passed to him. He has a lot of work to do offensively. I don't think he's good enough to be a ball dominant player in the NBA.
I think another thing is I thought he was more athletic. He's a good athlete, but he's going to struggle finishing around the rim in the NBA when there's length.
He'll get better as the season goes along... I'm just not impressed just yet. I still think he's a little overrated. I don't think he's identical to OJ Mayo, just reminds me of him. Mayo's ball dominant ways and "superstar" mentality didn't translate over to the NBA and he's struggling adapting to not being "the man" and playing a team game. I think Rivers will suffer a similar fate if he doesn't learn to play a team game and learn to play off of the ball.