Thinking to myself the other day for awhile and it occurred to me that Tim Duncan truly has had 1 of the best careers a professional basketball player can have. And people are constantly talking about legacies and Kobe and lebron are usually the first to name but what about Tim Duncan? I love Kobe to death but I think Tim Duncan's career can be just as great. Especially if Duncan wins a title this year. He will have equally the same number of titles as Kobe and I think MVPs as well. Also I know people love to say Duncan played in a system but I think it's a testament to Duncan's greatness that he has 1 titles in what I like to call different eras. Duncan's 1st title came in the late 90s and his las in 07. The game has vastly changed since then so I like the fact that he won his titles that way. Any thoughts?
so consistant with so many different sets of teammates is what really impresses me. I was having this conversation about the best player "post-Jordan" so no Dream, Stock and Mail, or Shaq and not counting young players like Lebron, Durant ect (Basically the 90's kids whose careers are winding down)
7. Vince Carter
9. Nash (I think his 2nd MVP was bogus. 2 MVPs puts him in a category where he doesn't belong. Should of stuck with just one)
Where would you rank guys like Ray Allen and Paul Pierce Chewy? TMac and VC were great for a few years but haven't really enjoyed the longevity, consistency or playoff success of Allen or Pierce. Allen is also arguably the greatest shooter in NBA history.
I strongly considered putting Pierce in that last spot, but Nash has 2 MVPs. It's kinda hard to keep knocking him down.
Ray Allen is harder to place. Yes, he is one of the greatest shooters of all time, but he has never carried a team the way Iverson/VC/T-mac did. Ray Allen started with Sam Casell, Tim Thomas and Big Dog to share star responsibilities. Then he formed a duo (not a Batman/ Robin situation) with Rashard Lewis in Seattle, then had Garnett and Pierce, now he has Lebron, Wade and Bosh.
Duncan's won 2 regular season and 3 finals MVP's to Kobe's 1 reg and 2 finals
Kobe was stripped, or if you really think Steve was better, ineligible for two regular season MVP's w/ the rape allegations. So if we go off paper Duncan looks better.
He wasnt winning MVPs because he didnt deserve them. After Shaq left he could hardly make the playoff whil Nash and the Suns were winning 60 games a year.
teammates: Lamar Odom, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Brian Cook, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Laron Profit, Sasha Vujacic, Ronny Turiaf....
Lost 1st round
Lead the league in scoring(.450fg)
All defensive 1st team
Teammates: same losing cast
All defensive 1st team
If we are using the lame, best team best player reasoning Nash's suns weren't the best teams during those years so I don't understand the logic there. Was Kobe not the best player in the league? Was he not more valuable to his team than Steve who had Marion, Amare, Raja, Barbosa, Tim Thomas, Diaw, James Jones ?
I say yes and maybe it is personal preference but the argument I will make is based around defense and rebounding. It is obvious that Kobe Bryant is/was a great defender as you can tell by his 12 all defense teams. However I will argue that Tim Duncan's defense has been much more valuable than Kobe. The reason is Duncan doesn't just do a great job shutting down his man but he defends the rim at an elite level and also owns the boards. Those are two huge aspects of the game where Kobe Bryant just could not match the value of Duncan simply because of his size.
These are the reasons that teams were convinced that Big Men were more valuable for the past 40 years or at least from 1968-2008. The Celtics dynasty was coming to an end at the late 60's and they were obviously built around the great defense and rebounding of Bill Russell. John Lucas, Magic Johnson and Allen Iverson (who became a SG) were the only PGs taken first overall during that 40 year span. After Shaq and Duncan stopped winning all the titles and the ball dominant point guards and the pick and roll were all the rage in the league. In a 4 year span 3 PGs were taken first overall Rose,Wall, and Irving.
Over that same span approximately 20 centers were taken first overall depending on a few guys who could be considered PF (including Tim Duncan). There is no secret that the game has changed and is more about penetration either from pick and roll or isolation but defense and rebounding will never go out of style. There probably won't be many more players like Tim Duncan anymore the way the game has evolved. Nobody posts up, Nobody uses the backboard....fundamentals are dying...but Tim Duncan represents every thing is right with the game of basketball. I am not a Spurs fan but I will certainly be cheering like one when/if they raise the trophy.
I think it depends on if Kobe can come back from this Achilles injury 100% and get 1 or 2 more rings. If he can't, then I'd say Tim goes over him. But I've said it before in that, Kobe was the closest thing to Jordan but not Jordan and I think he deserves a lot of credit for learning from what Jordan did and trying to re-create it, had to have taken a lot of hard work. (not saying their careers are all that similar, but if there was no Jordan I'd feel Kobe would be higher on the best ever list (though it required him learning from Jordan)). The longevity of Duncan and him still being a constant double-double guy and was 20-10 for most of his career while getting 4 (possibly 5) rings and a couple of MVP's is very impressive. I'd say they're basically equal and both should be top 10 before they're done.
I've been having this argument with multiple Laker fans in the last few weeks and none of them even give me the time of day. Duncan makes his teammates better from the PF position which isn't as easy as a ball dominant player like Kobe, resume aside that makes a huge difference to me. Even if Spurs lose this series I'm still going to say Duncan had the greater career because I don't think greatness is all about points.
In my opinion, it really comes down to preference. They've both had such great careers and convincing arguments could be made for both. Honestly, I don't even know where to begin on deciding. The only thing that might get me to sway one way or the other is Kobe's 81 point game.
this one is a easy choice for me.
If Duncan wins the title this year, then he will have won titles in three different decades. I think that John Salley is
the only other guy to do that. Just a great career and a title now would be a coronation of a great HOF career.
Can Kobe cure bald spots doe?
It is crazy the did a commercial together in their younger years. If Duncan wins a title, I give it a tie many because you have a elite big man against a elite guard. Most of the time you would go with the big man but the thing is Kobe is exceptional and Duncan have rarely played on a terrible team and Spurs are a better run organization than the Lakers. They are also now better coached since Phil left.
duncan over kobe? saying easily duncan over kobe? do u guys watch kobe's game at all?? the man waswilling the team to win with players like cook, sasha n other scrubs... scoring 50, 60, 81 games... duncan isnt even the best player on his team the last 5-7 years... keep in mind kobe has always been mentioned each season as a top 3-5 player in the game.... duncan is a great player but kobe got it..
Along those same lines, Kobe was the alpha on his team for 2 rings, while Duncan was for 4. Duncan also deserves credit for his willingness to always do what's best for his team, which includes taking a backseat to his younger PG late in his career.
Duncan has never missed the playoffs in his career and he's been more consistent longer.
If you think Parker or Ginobili was better in 2006 or 2007 your wrong.
Duncan averaged more pts in the regular seaon and playoffs.
20 ppg, 10 rebs, 2.4 blocks and shot a career high 55% in 07.
Kobe has the 81 pt. game, slam dunk title and he played in LA which helps.
Big market, his world wide media fame influences people.
Duncan was the better defender and player.
Go look at which player had higher player efficiency and win shares.
Yes, for now.
If Kobe comes back next season and gets a shot at a title, then it'll be a little different but for now, Tim Duncan is the greatest PF as well as the 2nd best big behind Kareem.