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Derrick Rose vs Point Guard X

Ghost01
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Derrick Rose vs Point Guard X

I know I am a Bulls fan and I may completely bias. But some of you Westbrook/Rondo supporters are completely dilusional.

Derrick Rose is the star on a contender

Derrick Rose is the 2nd leading scorer in the NBA

Derrick Rose is DOMINATING games

Derrick Rose is hitting outside jump shots with ease.

Derrick Rose is a top 3 MVP candidate right now.

I love Westbrook and Rondo. And in many ways, these 2 are better than Rose. But what most of you arent accounting for is how Rose is the number 1 guy on his team, how Rose has LEAD his team to the playoffs everyyear of his career. And that we have never seen a player like Rose. His combination of athletism and and ball handling skills and finishing ability is one of a kind. He might not be a prototypical PG, but he is still a good passer, and is an absolutely elite offensive player.


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Westbrook, Rose, Rondo are

Westbrook, Rose, Rondo are tied for the third best PG's in the league right now imo. Rondo is slipping right now, but you can never really say that these guys are that much better because in a Playoff matchup Boston will win. Its definitely a tough one, but if the Bulls get the extra boost they need from Boozer to beat the Celtics in the Playoffs it has to be Rose. Also Rose's playoff performances and Rondo's playoff performances are absolutely amazing and I havent seen Westbrook play at that level in the postseason before.

Id say tied for 3rd but if I had to give an order...Rose, Rondo, Westbrook. Im not hating on Westbrook either he is my favourite player in the league right now, Im just being honest.

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Good stuff

I agree with you. Westbrook is amazing. But people are overreacting to him putting on a few nice games and people think hes a great defender when he really isnt. Hes a great 2nd option, and hes having a great year. But what Rose is doing is just flat out ridiculous. Rose is more of a scorer, but still handles the ball and makes the smart pass. Rondo is the best passer in the league, but hes so inept and things such as shooting or free throw shooting, that i just find if your hypothetically starting a team, he would definitely be the 3rd guy out of these 3, but if you have stars in place in alot of cases hes no.1.

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Didn't hear anything about

Didn't hear anything about rose's defense....

bdoody42
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people

People really seem to forget this thing called defense where westbrook and rondo have a big advantage.

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Derrick Rose has the ability

Derrick Rose has the ability to carry a team that Westbrook doesn't have (and I don't think he'll ever really get or really need to as much as Rose because of Durant), and that Rondo hasn't had to show. Rose isn't better than Rondo just yet, but I do think he's proven to be better than Westbrook. I don't think Westbrook would be as effective as Rose has been leading a team like the Bulls. Speculation, but I don't think Westbrook is that kind of talent. He's a great athlete and a very good player, but I don't think he's the type that can carry a team.

the lake show
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There's something called

There's something called reality that people tend to ignore. Its not a valid argument to say westbrook cant do this or that if hes on this or that team. All that is guess work. Its OK to think westbrook cant do it but none of us know because he has kevin durant on his team and as of now westbrook is leading that team. Some rose supporters always like to leave out defense when comparing the players as well. what I'm interested in is what excuses people are gonna make when boozer comes back and roses scoring goes down. There's clearly no clear cut answer to who's better on offense. both put up good scoring numbers and both have carried there teams. Neither has gotten past the first round so neither is on contending teams until that happens no matter what happens in the regular season. The reason i continue to pick westrbook is because there's two sides to basketball Offense and Defense and Wesbrook clearly has the edge in that department all the top point guards are good defenders , CP3,Rondo,Dwill yet for rose supporters hes the only player that they fail to mention on the defensive side of the ball like that's not part of saying how good of a PLAYER he is.

Ghost01
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Defense

Obviously none of you watch the Bulls. Rose is a mediocre defender. Not aweful, not at all. Hes pretty much outplayed Rondo head to head in his career, if anything has been even with him.

Westbrook isnt a great defender either. Rondo is, but Westbrook is vastly overrated defensively.

And you guys bring up defense because its the only thing Westbrook is better than Rose at.

the lake show
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If Rose or rondo or another

If Rose or rondo or another top point guard was on a team with the talent durant has we would be questioning if they could lead a team on there own which is natural. The same thing has been said about talents of the past Pippen

Kevin mchale

Duncan before robinson started to decline

magic without Kareem

Until a second option goes to a team where he is a first option its nothing but speculation. One thing is for sure though, if any of those point guards where on a team with durant they would become second options

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I know one thing that does

I know one thing that does count Westbrook already out played him earlier this year!!!

the lake show
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ok lets break this down stat

ok lets break this down stat wise

Rose averages 2.3 more points then westbrook on 4.7 more shots a game

rose 1steal a game westbrook 2.17

westbrook averages .4 more assist

westbrook is ranked 5th in efficiancy rose ranked 9th

westbrook is clearly a better defender rose is average to below average defender

westbrook 5.1 rebounds a game rose 4.6

Ghost01
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So...

Stanford- that all just says they are pretty even. You are thinking about this all in stats. Ive watched every Rose game, and most of Westbrooks games. Rose has intangibles Westbrook just doesnt have. And quit acting like KD doesnt matter. Every coach is gameplanning around stopping KD. Do you really think defenses are keying on Luol Deng and Keith Bogans? Hellllllll no.

And you discounted stuff like:

Rose 26.6 at .468 FG shooting

Westbrook 23.8 at .447 FG shooting

Westbrook has no outside shot.

Stuff like that. Your just looking at certain stats. Watch the games, Westbrook is no more than a 2nd banana

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these guys go beyond stats if

;these guys go beyond stats if we just went by stats this year rose would be a better defender slightly. rose allows 106 pts per 100 possesions and westbrook allows 107 pts per 100 possesions. We need to look at more than stats and westbrook isnt just a 2nd option did u not see wat he was doing when kd was out

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andxxx

Exactly. This guy throws a bunch of stats at how Westbrook is better than Rose, then just simply states "Westbrook is clearly a better defender than Rose" when the stats dont back that up.

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Stanfordhoops is right, dont

Stanfordhoops is right, dont belive the hype. Without Westbrook OKC is a lottery selection team this year.

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I cant believe that second

I cant believe that second option nonsense, Im sure that the Heat would rather have Westbook and Wade/Lebron and Bosh then Wade, Lebron and Bosh.

the lake show
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i just put the stats up there

i just put the stats up there but I'm not going by just stats. after looking at ESPN is clear I'm not alone since they have westbrook as number 2 on the MVP voting and John Hollinger (who alot of people on here and the NBA go by for some reason) has Westbrook higher then rose as well as Westbrook having a per higher then rose. I mean if you look at stats and the games and factor in defense Westbrook is better. Im sure biased fans wont think so but as Dwight Howard sang in his commercial (with a word substituted)

"FAAAAAAACTS DOOOOOONT LIEEEEEEEE"

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Hollinger

Hollinger is a joke. I dont care what ESPN thinks. There is no evidence westbrook is better. This is 17 games or so. Mark my words, at the end of the season Derrick Rose will receive more MVP votes than Westbrook. And im still missing this westbrook is an elite defender nonsense.

ohcanada- however true, without Rose the Bulls might not have a win this year.

the lake show
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http://espn.go.com/video/clip

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5866036

Im not so sure about Leglers claim that westbrook is a legit 6'6 though

Seems Espn doesnt agree with you as far as westbrook being a top 3 MVP candidate

Also OKC is better then the bulls in a better conference

the lake show
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lol..like i said biased...you

lol..like i said biased...you will believe what you wanna believe which is cool

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Lol alot of the efficiency is

Lol alot of the efficiency is slightly lower for Rose because he's depended on for more than Westbrook is. I see Rose as a true franchise player, if he hasn't proven it so far. I don't think Westbrook is capable of carrying a franchise, at least not at Rose's level. Westbrook might do things that catches peoples eyes and whatever makes everyone get excited, but Rose is carrying the Bulls basically with only OK talent. I don't see Westbrook as that kind of player. He's a complementary piece in my eyes.

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I agree. I will take Rose

I agree. I will take Rose over Westbrook. He is emerging as a go to-guy on a playoff franchise, and those are not easy to come by.

As far as Rose and Rondo go, I heard an analyst say that he would rather have Rose in Chicago and Rondo in Boston. That sounds about right on paper, with Rondo's leadership, defense, and great passing, but I would think long and hard about it if I was the Celtics and had the oppurtunity to swap Rondo for Rose. The way Rose can attack a defense is so rare it could work for any team, and he has shown the ability to defer to other great players, then attack when the pressure is at its highest

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I dont mind that because

I dont mind that because those things cant be proven( carrying a franchise or being a first option) because westbrook has durant (although right now its clear westbrook is the best player on the thunder and he is actually leading the thunder) But looking at the starting five id take westbrook and durant but I'd Also take Noah and deng so its not like rose is playing with a bunch of nobody's. Rose has shown he can carry a team to a first round of the playoffs same as a bunch of other players int he past which is good but nothing to brag about. I believe westbrook can do the same but just like people saying they dont think westbrook can its all IF's and cant be proven.

As far as efficiency and depended on many of stars have been number one when they were in the position that rose is in, some of which had less talent then rose has around him

Ghost01
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stanford your dilusional

Westbrook has outplayed Durant in like 5 games, of which Durant either didnt play or is playing hurt, and now hes there best player? Give me a break.

You are talking about stats that dont matter. Westbrook doesnt carry his team, Rose does, thats the difference, just give up already. Rose is a better player. Hes on a team filled with mediocrity, and has them in the eastern conference playoff mix. Westbrook still isnt even the top guy on his team. Durant will always be the leader of that team. Your just like fools that were saying Gasol was the Lakers star now because the first 4 games of the season he scored more points. Wait til were halfway through the season, and stuff will average out.

Rose joined a lottery team his rookie year and has been the leader since day 1. Westbrook's rookie year started 3-17. Dont look at 10 games and say "Westbrook is sooooooo much better". Look at the big picture, who they are playing with, who they are playing for, and what theyve done entirely.

the lake show
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Westbrook has never carried

Westbrook has never carried the thunder?..lol

so far i haven't seen any facts i hear " rose can lead a team and westbrook cant" which isn't a fact and cant be proven because westbrook has durant.

Rose had ben gordan his first year so its not like rose lead them to where they were

i look at everything up to this point stats, head to head match up, and games. I'm not like rose fans who ignore defense because that is 50percent of the whole picture just like offense is the other 50percent when talking about how good a player is.

like i said can we come with some facts that can be proven. leading a team obviously cant be proven since westbrook has durant

Also Ive been saying westbrook is better even before this year. you're new (so you claim) so maybe you must have missed that. You'Re obviously too blinded by your biases to see anything but rose rose rose I'm just glad that I'm not the only one who thinks westbrook is better at this point ( thanks hollinger and ESPN who everyone here watches every day like its the real news). More and more people have come to the side of westbrook with more to follow. Its ok ill leave room on the bandwagon for you and Iggy to join as well:)

the lake show
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In a way like a boxer with

In a way like a boxer with the same record and with fights against one another in the past but in the last head to head match up one boxerknocks the other boxer out as far as head to head, lol

Ghost01
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50 percent

Saying defense is 50 percent of the game is ridiculous. Dennis Rodman isnt in the hall of fame.

Here are the facts:

Rose has a better winning percentage than westbrook

Rose has always been the leading scorer on his team, westbrook hasnt.

Rose is 2nd in the NBA in scoring behind westbrooks teammate

Rose has a higher FG% than westbrook

Rose is less than half of an assist behind westbrook

Statistically they are on par defensively. 106 per 100 for Rose, 107 per 100 for Westbrook.

Those are stats, and facts, that relate to being a good basketball player. Rose is better.

the lake show
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who ever plays on a team with

who ever plays on a team with durant is gonna be the second leading scorer on there team ..lol

neither has gotten past the first round

the west is clearly better then the east

im not gonna even argue about defense because no one ever argues that rose is close to being on par with westbrook so ill ignore that part

ellis is in front of gasol in scoring. guess ellis is better but since we are going by stats

rose averages 2points more then westbrook taking 5 more shots

rose is less efficiant so even though hes scoring more westbrook is more efficiant

westbrook gets more steals

westbrook gets more rebounds

westbrook is higher on the mvp list

rose plays 2 more min per game

westbrook is a better free throw shooter

rose is a better three point shooter both are bad three point shooters as well as shooters period

westbrook has to match up against CP3,Dwill,Nash in the west

Rose has to match up with Rondo,Jameer nelson, and......................jru holiday?...man thats a tight battle..lol

the lake show
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I just hope i dont hear a

I just hope i dont hear a bunch of excuses once rose scoring goes down when boozer comes back. both players will have scorers on there team then and there shouldnt be any reason for rose to average less points then westbrook since durant will more then likely score more then boozer by at least 6 points and take more shots. so we shall see who is gonna be the better scorer when both will have a legit 20ppg or more scoring option by there side.

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haha

Theres no reason to find anything you say credible when you change your story every comment.

Its about stats

Then its not about stats

Sorry Rose didnt force a trade to the worst team in the west to prove hes better than every player in the history of basketball.

butidonthavemoney
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BAM!

"There's something called reality that people tend to ignore. Its not a valid argument to say westbrook cant do this or that if hes on this or that team."

BAM!

People shouldn't be using fallacies in their arguments. I agree infinity percent.

P.S. - Two cents: I'll take Westbrook over Rose.

the lake show
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lol....it just make no sense

lol....it just make no sense when people do that since theres no proof saying that westbrook cant lead a team. plsu the fact that even if they switched places that argument wouldnt be valid because rose would be a second option behind durant just like every other player not named kobe,lebron,wade. I remember having the same argument years ago with a uncle because he thought clyde drexler was better then pippen since he scored more and was a first opinion while pippen was a second option. i was like " pippen has MJ as his first option so of course hes gonna be a second option,clyde would be a second option as well on the bulls team with MJ"

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1.who ever plays on a team

1.who ever plays on a team with durant is gonna be the second leading scorer on there team ..lol
2.neither has gotten past the first round
3.the west is clearly better then the east
4.im not gonna even argue about defense because no one ever argues that rose is close to being on par with
westbrook so ill ignore that part
5.ellis is in front of gasol in scoring. guess ellis is better but since we are going by stats
6.rose averages 2points more then westbrook taking 5 more shots
7.rose is less efficiant so even though hes scoring more westbrook is more efficiant
8.westbrook gets more steals
9.westbrook gets more rebounds
10.westbrook is higher on the mvp list
11.rose plays 2 more min per game
12.westbrook is a better free throw shooter
13.rose is a better three point shooter both are bad three point shooters as well as shooters period
14.westbrook has to match up against CP3,Dwill,Nash in the west
15.Rose has to match up with Rondo,Jameer nelson, and......................jru holiday?...man thats a tight battle..lol

In all honesty almost all of this argument should be thrown out, it is absolute garbage.

1. So?
2. The Bulls have played the Celtics and Cavs in their two postseason appearances with Rose, the Thunder played the Lakers, neither was going to win so why even bring that up.
3.What does that have to do with anything? The Bulls have played the toughest schedule in the NBA thus far and are still winning.
4. If you go by stats (which you do for westbrook but nor for rose) it's shown they're the same, stop ignoring it.
5. They are not even the same position, and gasol has Kobe, another horrible point to bring up.
6. While shooting like 4% better from the field and he has to take more shots to win, which is working.
7. As opposed to PER? Who cares? I'll take the guy who is shooting a career low in FG% and still dominating, just wait for Boozer to come so he doesn't have to force everything.
8. Overrated stat, but take your steals it's not a huge indacator about a player at all.
9. They have Joakim Noah for that purpose, get the board toss it to Rose and start the break, BTW why do rebounds matter for a pg?
10. OMG! One guys list! A guy who emitted Chris Paul from his top 5 I believe, like why does that matter at all?
11. So? Are you trying to say Rose is more durable? Or he plays more because they need him to for them to win? What kind of stat are you trying to bring up?
12. Win for you.
13. If you watched Rose you can see he actually makes 3's now and isn't a poor shooter at all. Of course you would try and throw this out because Rose is improving here greatly.
14. Huge deal, so he has to play each of them a few more times per year then Rose? It's not like he plays them all year long, it's a few games each. This means nothing whatsoever.
15. Read 14.

Honestly if you want to make an argument about Rose vs. Westbrook (which is still a debate) make a decent argument that doesn't completely bias your side. You have ignored every post or belittled every argument made about Rose. You only use 1/2 of the stats and those are the ones that all favor Westbrook. This is 100% bias and one of the most ignorant arguments I have ever seen on here. Consdering your reputation on this site, I am absoutely baffled as to how you could make such a horrid list of arguments going down this page. I see no point in responding after this post, because I'm positive you will just belittle it as well. Good day.

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gimme a break how are u gonna

gimme a break how are u gonna listen too a dude who says westbrook is a legit 6'6 are you serious, also rose is better then westbrook, yeah westbrook has put on a show for the past few games but hes a legit star in this league i expect something like that from him expecially since durant was hurt now saying that look at the teams hes done it against aside from the hornets he did it against indiana and houston and that game against the celtics was cute but rondo got hurt so who knows how that could have turned out, now on the other side rose has been doing this all season and since the 2nd half of last season leading his team bringing them back from huge hole, putting chicago on his back and hes been doin that since his rookie season, and people bring up defense between the two like its that serious IMO none of them are great defenders not rondo not paul williams westbrook there all average to above average to me,but on the other hand besides looking at "STATS" rose is a better scorer then all of them with his semi increased range while shooting a better FG percentage and shooting less FTs and as far as passing the ball the only people ahead of him in this discussion are paul and williams dont get me wrong rondo is a good passer but its kind of simple to jus leave the ball behind for ray allen and peirce for them to knock down a open jumper think every single top pg can do that so can people please ease up on the westbrook talk hes like scottie pippen and will always be that while rose on the other hand is a franchise player who is doing this while playing without the player who is supposed to make it easier for him

FACTS dont lie

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/11/26/race-to-mvp-week5/index.html

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PS: My argument shows

PS: My argument shows ignorance in many places to mimmick how you have done so to literally every Rose argument. Points 1, 8 and 12 are all true in your original statement.

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Rondo

Rondo is the only one of the 3 to win a playoff series. Against the Bulls he lead the Celtics past the Bulls. He lead.

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Westbrook has improved a lot

Westbrook has improved a lot and it's close, but I'd still go with Rose. Rose just has a better feel for the game and makes better decisions with the ball in my opinion.

There were good points made above about Westbrook's defense. He's active and hustles, but I think his defense is a little overrated. He's not a lockdown defender at all. Even still though, he's a better defender than Rose.

It'll be interesting to see how Boozer's return impacts Rose.

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" Honestly if you want to

"

Honestly if you want to make an argument about Rose vs. Westbrook (which is still a debate) make a decent argument that doesn't completely bias your side. You have ignored every post or belittled every argument made about Rose. You only use 1/2 of the stats and those are the ones that all favor Westbrook. This is 100% bias and one of the most ignorant arguments I have ever seen on here. Consdering your reputation on this site, I am absoutely baffled as to how you could make such a horrid list of arguments going down this page. I see no point in responding after this post, because I'm positive you will just belittle it as well. Good day."

Great points. He wasnt really making any sense what so ever, and it was getting quite annoying. Thanks for pointing out the stuff i was trying to say.

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"Consdering your reputation

"Consdering your reputation on this site, I am absoutely baffled as to how you could make such a horrid list of arguments going down this page."

Don't be so baffled... That IS Stanford Hoops' reputation.

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Of course its horrid to you

Of course its horrid to you because you dont agree with you. just like tezo, you, and others have had arguements that people havent agreed with and have been baffled.

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You weren't very consistent

You weren't very consistent in this debate stanford. You brought up stats that made Westbrook seem good then shot down the stats Rose puts up by saying stats don't mean anything. I agree it was a poor argument.

the lake show
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I actually just used the same

I actually just used the same arguments that others use against Westbrook that didn't make much sense some of which were

Westbrook cant carry a team like rose ( no one knows because Westbrook has KG on his team)

Westbrook isn't as good because he cant shoot( someone tell that to rondo)

The only people that seem to disagree though are the ones that think rose is better big surprise yet they shoot down what NBA guys have said about Westbrook being better right now( the same NBA guys they use to help there arguments in other post)

In conclusion Westbrook is better without stats and gave it too rose while playing great defense on him and winning the game the last game they played. Y'all can argue all you want but facts dont lie:). ill let y'all moan amongst you're selves now because Ive made my point in this post. As Hova says " on to the next one"

JNixon
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Who do you think you are?

Who do you think you are?

IndianaBasketball
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Lmao

Lmao

butidonthavemoney
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Hey

Happy belated 10,000th post JNixon!

Belated Party Time!

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put westbrrok on the bulls

put westbrrok on the bulls and put rose on the thunder, and im pretty sure the thunder would be right up there in the same breath as LA, Boston, Orlando, SAS. The bulls would barely be a playoff team this year with westbrook as the franchise player. And dont forget having KD on your team is an unbelievable advantage. Imagine Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose on the same team.....together they would give you close to 60 a night with just them alone. Not even mention on offense, D-rose is way more polished than Russell Westbrook, hes got a legit three point shot now, while westbrook has made like 3 or 4 from deep all year. D-rose the real package, and Westbrrok is the real sidekick.

Mkadoza
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Enough hypotheticals. I think

Enough hypotheticals. I think we can all agree Rose has proven to be a more difficult player to stop from scoring. He's a better shooter and consistently beats double teams that Westbrook just doesn't see with Durant on the court, and when when he's off the court for long periods of time, he's percentages fall. I think thats not debatable. Its not debatable that Westbrook is a better rebounder, weakside defender, and better at forcing contact. Everythinkg else is a matter of perspective and preference.

I will again take Rose, because I trust him with the ball more than I do Westbrook halfcourt sets, and if hes my best player, thats the most important thing to me to winning close games. I have way more confidence with Rose isolating against a defense than Westbrook, because to me he's so slick moving laterally and crafty with the ball, and so explosive while being in complete control is special. No one in the league attacks the basket like Rose. He's just far more selective. He's just a special talent with excellent poise, winning instincts, and has shown to raise his play in big situations. I'm not say Westbrook hasn't in his own way. I just feel more confident with Rose in any situation.... except at the free throw line. Percentages aren't debatable either.

Mkadoza
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Joined: 07/15/2009
Posts: 1390
Points: 1407
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Enough hypotheticals. I think

Enough hypotheticals. I think we can all agree Rose has proven to be a more difficult player to stop from scoring. He's a better shooter and consistently beats double teams that Westbrook just doesn't see with Durant on the court, and when when he's off the court for long periods of time, he's percentages fall. I think thats not debatable. Its not debatable that Westbrook is a better rebounder, weakside defender, and better at forcing contact. Everythinkg else is a matter of perspective and preference.

I will again take Rose, because I trust him with the ball more than I do Westbrook halfcourt sets, and if hes my best player, thats the most important thing to me to winning close games. I have way more confidence with Rose isolating against a defense than Westbrook, because to me he's so slick moving laterally and crafty with the ball, and so explosive while being in complete control is special. No one in the league attacks the basket like Rose. He's just far more selective. He's just a special talent with excellent poise, winning instincts, and has shown to raise his play in big situations. I'm not say Westbrook hasn't in his own way. I just feel more confident with Rose in any situation.... except at the free throw line. Percentages aren't debatable either.

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