Rose is a average defender at best. Anyone who has watched him knows this
Clearly you dont watch basketball. BUt, all of your posts suggest this so its really nothing new.
Explain to me how a team is the 2nd most efficient defensive team in the NBA with a bad-average defensive PG? And explain why Rose's team is better than CP3's? Dont tell me Rose has had more help because that is a joke.
Crush him Tezo
No one said Defense stops once you get picked. defense does stop on you're man when you're picked and picks up with rondo guarding whoever picked him. And i played at just about every level as well so whats you're point?
Who said rose is a bad defender?..He's a average defender and clearly there are many people who don't know basketball including those at espn/nba tv. because they all said Rose is a average defender. Guess you're the only guy who knows about defense.
I also guess that everyone else on here who watched the game and saw Rondo was picked just about every play are wrong as well.
ANd yea i recall you down playing when jennings out played Rose but its different if Rose out plays someone huh
end of the day Rose didn't DESTROY Rondo.....whether or not Rose is Rondo's man, he can only do so much when he gets picked off.....anybody that plays basketball knows that. If you want to talk about destroying like I said...when Baby tried guarding Boozer...Boozer did what he want with Baby guarding him straight up, now that is destroying.
Rose's defense does suck, he can't stay in front of anybody.... I remember watching Raymond Felton and Toney Douglas kill him earlier this season....Douglas absolutely torched him somethin serious.. I don't know if it's because he puts too much effort in his offense or if he just doesn't care, but somebody with his speed and strength shouldn't be getting worked like that daily.
Right, because a game against the Knicks in the 2nd week of the season is a good indicator of how good teams are.
Just like the Celtics beating Miami on opening night is still relevant...
You guys are so foolish its not even funny.
And again, if Jennings, and Felton, and CP3 are all so much better than Rose, why is it his team is 24-12, while all the other's teams are not? Thats the real question. Winning.
Indiana I agree with you man, but you're making it very difficult. While I do agree defense doesn't stop when a player gets picked, it is supposed to be a team game where someone comes to help out. And don't act like people don't play basketball just because they see the game differently for you. I'm 6ft 140 lbs, I'm a tenacious defender on the court and am terrific coming weakside for a huge block due to mydeceptive quickness/leaping , but when I get picked by a guy genuinely bigger than me, I literally have no idea what to do, because I'm not strong enough to make it through the pick fast enough to stop the man curling off of it. If you played ball for 19 years you would realize that ball hanlder gets as close to the guy setting a pick as he can to make it more difficult to get through. My guess Rondo had similar issues as he isn't exactly the strongest guy. That's where rotations come into play, I guarantee you that Rose doesn't get those with Perk and KG out there. They're just too good guarding the P&R. So stop talking like it was just Rondo's responsibilty to stop Rose after being picked, bad P&R dedfending bigs equal a good night for a guy as athletic as Rose.
Oh, and Fritz, you ask me to explain why I say Rose only gets assists by having the ball so much, probably the same way that Wade has managed nearly 8 assists per game for the past 3 years prior to making the 3heat. Not to mention Rose has been developed with more of a pg mindset than Wade which would account for less tunnel vision. Give me Rose as a 2 guard doing what he does, but I'd much rather prefer my pg to look to create for teammates.
All I am trying to say, is that rose can run a pick and roll enough times in a game, and hit Korver enough times to get his 8 assists. Not to mention All-Star caliber Luol Deng all season, playing some of his best offensive basketball ever.
igua had a good post, which though i disagreed with most of, i did respect, until this statement
All-Star caliber Luol Deng
Im sick of people who dont know what they are talking about when it comes to particular players. Luol Deng can come off screens and step into shots, and he can knock down wide open 3s. Thats about it. Most all stars do alot more.
However, i agree that Rose isnt a great creator for his teammates, but he is not a shooting guard at all. And when you are winng 67% of your games with Rose being your superstar, scoring and passing the rock, i think you should be able to agree that hes just that good at what he does, even if he isnt conventional.
No, this year, Luol Deng is All-Star level player. Deng can come off screens, step into shots, hit open 3's. So you're saying Rip Hamilton didn't deserve to be an all-star, b/c that was his role with the Pistons. Luol's ability to play off the ball and still get around 20 a game is part of the reason that Rose is being able to play at the level he is having the ball so much. Not to mention Luol is an above average defensive player and an above average rebounder. If you ask me Luol's ability to do his role at the level he does, is All-Star worthy if you ask myself, Mo Williams, Al Jefferson, Jamaal Magloire, the 4 starters from Detroit Sheed,Chauncey,Rip,Ben.
Igua- check it out-
To be an "All Star Calibur Player" You need to either
A. Be someone who has made the all star team before
B. Be someone who is vaguely in contention to be an all star this season.
Luol Deng is neither of those, thus, he isnt an All Star calibur player. Averaging 17.8 PPG isnt averaging 20 PPG. Deng is just a scorer, thats it. A jump shooter. When he goes to rim, he usually fails.
I sincerely disagree, if the team didn't have Booz, Luol would have been the one who could have snuck in due to injury like Jameer, Mo Williams both did. Just saying, Luol is having a better year offensively, and does a lot of other things very well. All-Star caliber and actually being an All-star is a completely different thing. But I figured one so educated as yourself in the art of basketball would understand that.
Beause Luol, has the talent of an All Star. Otherwise guys like Odom would have never been considered All-Star caliber. It means you have the ability to play like an All-Star, which for the early part of the season, pre Booz, Luol was doing. Just saying, he is a perennial All Star.
igua- I watch every single Bull game. luol deng isnt an all star. He doesnt do anything except shoot jumpers, and hog the ball. boozer was hurt, as is Noah, and Deng hasnt stepped up, hes just been the same.
perennial all star? why? when has he ever been an all star? NEVER. Who is considering him an allstar this year? NO ONE. He isnt an all star, end of story.
Honestly, Luol Deng is not even close to being an all star. Coming from someone who follows the Bulls quite a bit.
Exactly. People are living in a playoff series that happened in 2007. Thats the last time Luol Deng looked "all star calibur".
I would understand this argument a lot more if he were putting these numbers up on bad teams, but he's doing on one that is 24-12. You're going to tell me he isn't as good as Josh Howard when he was an AS, or Caron his first AS appearance. But I forgot, Rose does everything for that team.
igua- he isnt Josh Howard or Caron Butler. He is Luol Deng.
He has never been an all star, and he isnt going to be one this year.
being all star calibur isnt "Being similar to someone who made the all star game 1 time". He isnt even close. watch the Bulls, Luol Deng is invisible half the games and even when he shows up its just catch and shoot. he doesnt create and he hogs the rock. This isnt rocket science. No one has this guy nowhere near the AS game, for a reason.
And putting up numbers isnt 17.8 He is a scorer, and he is 33rd in the league in scoring. If he isnt an elite scorer, then there is no reason to think hes an all star because he doesnt do anything else
As Luol Deng is included on the voting ballot for this season’s NBA All-Star Game, Chicago Bulls legend Horace Grant tells MVP that the Great Britain international should get a spot.
Deng – who is averaging a career-high 19.6 ppg this term – recently became the first Bulls player to score 40 or more points in a game since ex-team-mate (and fellow Brit) Ben Gordon dropped 43 on Miami in 2009.
Speaking exclusively to MVP, Grant – who won three titles with the legendary Chicago team of the 90s – said the Londoner deserved a place at the All-Star Game.
“Most definitely,” he insisted. “I have always liked Luol’s game. He’s a slasher, he’s a scorer – and plus he can play defence.
“After signing that big contract, he just had a down year and a half – and many guys go through that. But right now I think he’s definitely redeemed himself, in terms of coming out this year and just playing some great basketball. And he does have a legitimate shot to make the All-Star team”.
Ben Gordon is also hoping for his first All-Star call-up in his sixth season in the league.
The London-born guard ranks 20th among league leaders in free throw percentage (.889) and 27th in both field goal percentage (.520) and three-point field goal percentage (.452).
Fans can select their choices to start the annual contest, which will be played at the Staples Center in Los Angeles on February 20, on nba.com. The coaches will then choose the reserves once voting concludes on January 23.
The NBA All-Star ballot lists 120 players – 60 each from the Eastern and Western conferences – with 24 guards, 24 forwards, and 12 centers from each conference comprising the list.
Personally i agree with what has been said on espn that he is Allstar Caliber player But i don't think i would pick him over Bron,Paul P (even though i cant stand him) or Granger and probably not over Iggy. But thats just my personal opinion
I'll take paul/d-will/rondo over rose anyday. Rose is an outstanding scorer, and good leader for the bulls. Is he a playmaker of paul/rondo/d-will's calibur? hell no. Is he as good a defender as rondo or paul? no.
Saying there are better point guards than rose is no insult to Rose. The guy is an amazing scorer and extremely athletic, but he has quite a bit of work to do to be THE best point guard.
Luol Deng isn't an All-Star caliber player. He's a good complimentary 3rd option player who can get you 15 points without creating his own shots. He's VERY reliant on good guard play to get production. He has trouble creating off the dribble because he handles the ball with too high a center of gravity, and because the ball slows his down. He is a decent defender and rebounder though too
See Nixon, no one understands the different between RELIABLE and ALL STAR. And great post Lake Show, Horace Grant, who may or may not have won 3 rings in Chicago thinks Deng is an all star, well if he, or more importantly, you said it, it HAS to be true.
No, that is the exact point, a lot of times, RELIABLE guys get picked for doing their jobs on winning teams, just like all players I listed above. Deng is like 7th in All-Star voting for east forwards. That's based off of fans vote, and it's funny you say no one thinks he's an All-Star yet all kinds of analysts NBA types keep bringing his name up. He's been more of ALL-Star than Granger this year. H stepped up when needed and stayed consistent throughout, sounds like a good ALL-Star reserve to me. And quite frankly , when I originally said All-Star caliber, I wasn't trying to push it for this year, just that he was having an ALL-Star "like" year now, and could 1 year make ASG the same way Caron, Howard, Mo Will, Jameer, Devin Harris, Danny Granger, and Magloire have all done before him. I'm not trying to say he's some kind of consistent all-star, just that he's having an All-Star like year.
And while Iggy is in my top5 favorite players, no way could I feel right putting him in ASG with his play this year. I keep voting for him anyways though lol.
If Luol Deng makes the all star team, i will change my profile picture to sam bowie.
Doubt he will, but he's been in discussion by a lot of NBA types, and apparently got some fan base which proves he is ALL-Star caliber.
Show me one article that isnt by an ex bull related person saying he is an all star.