Derrick Rose DESTROYS Rajon Rondo
i think paul/williams/rose is a very close toss up. ROse is arguably the mvp of the league at this point. But if i was still building a franchise today, i would take paul as my pg. You just never seem to have a bad possesion with him as your pg. He wont doimnate gmaes as often as rose or dwill, but he will pretty much never cost you a game either.
Rondo's an All-NBA defender and many people consider him to be the best on ball defender in the NBA. Rose got anything he wanted versus Rondo today and really answered his critics by putting Rondo and Boston's bigs in foul trouble.
The 15-19 free-throws was career highs in both makes and attempts.
There was a thread on here about how Rose is overrated. He's a legit MVP candidate and has carried his team all season whether it was missing Noah or Boozer. He's a top ten player in the NBA.
It was great when Nate was put on Rose. He just took it to him every possession. It is good to see Rose finally getting some calls as well.
This has been said a sh!t ton before...but...Rose beats his defender off the dribble and gets to the rim quicker than anybody I have ever seen...it is ridiculous.
I figured this post was coming.... He probably is the best scoring point guard in the NBA right now and is shouldering such a tremendous scoring load for the Bulls, who start two players in Bogans and Thomas who are non-existent offensively. They also have a terrible scoring bench. As a distributor, defender and most importantly as a vocal floor leader, Rose is not on the same level as Chris Paul IMO. People are talking about the Bulls being a very weak team without Rose but I think the Hornets would be even weaker without Chris Paul. A core of Boozer, Deng and Noah is far more appealing to me than one that consists of West, Ariza and Okafor. But agreed Tezo, he is closing the gap between him and Paul and Williams.
Rose is a superstar.
He gets better every summer. He came into the league and led his team to the playoffs as a rookie.
He came back as a sophomore with an ankle injury and the critics kicked him while he was down... Said he didn't have what it took to take over games and was too passive. He started taking over games and was named to the All-Star team.
The critics said he had no jump shot, so he worked hard on it over the summer and came back with a three-pointer. Now, he's literally unguardable.
He'll come back as a lockdown defender next season.
Again, I am whoring myself out, but here is an article I wrote that defends everything Tezo just said....
http://netdugout.com/blog/2010/12/dkirby/the-case-for-derrick-rose/
It was an insane performance in my eyes... Rose looked really aggressive tonight... 15/19 from the line? I think he's getting the calls he wanted... Not to mention, it's really a nightmare for anyone guarding him... He's way too quick and way too fast... His athleticism allows him to dance in the air NOT to mention how much he guaranteed during summer about his jumpshot... He has been all vocal about how he worked real hard in the offseason to add his three point shooting in his arsenal...
People laugh when he said "Why can't I be MVP?".... Well, I always had the confidence that Derrick will pull it off someday... But right now, I don't think anyone's laughing...
lmao....somebody didn't watch the game. he beat Rondo off the bounce only once or twice.....scoring off set picks is not destroying somebody....he had 2 assists with 4 turnovers....and the refs gave him 20 free throws.....refs were quick to blow all night....he killed Nate every time he tried to guard him, but don't let those numbers fool you he did not come close to destroying Rondo...what a joke thread. made by somebody who doesn't watch basketball or understand the game
exactly....now if you want to say he destroyed Nate, I can agree, because everytime he got the ball he just took it right at him and scored at will, but then again Nate is 5'2 on a good day, so I hope he can with his ability to score the ball at the rim.
Destroyed the celtics more than rondo....
So weak defensively inside, so slow, so weak in the rebounding department(crushed one more time), that LSU's 300 +++ pounders combo is awfull.
Rondo's now the best rebounder of the starting 5....without KG and perk'.
He makes me dream when he puts 2 triple doubles with 22 and 24 assists this season or when he delivers a triple double in the first round against the bulls, those 8 assists quarters....
Not the 72pts 51FTA 2 assists PG, that's shooting, scoring guard numbers...
That's a freak of nature version of AI, 2 inches taller, 25 pounds heavier.
I respect the hard work he puts on his game years after years(that's spectacular), just prefers the playmakers, under control, old school PG.
That's not the type of PG who will make luol deng deserved his contract, that's fo sho....
I didnt see the game, but I would only assume his 19 FTs and Rondo's 5 Fouls had more correlation than "1 to 2 plays". And thinking of "the refs giving Rose FTs" is just hilarious. This guy doesnt get any calls. He finally does, and the refs gave him the game. Grow up, tool. Rose is better than Rondo. This is nothing short of a fact at this point. Where was Rondo at vs Rose's "terrible" defense?
I said Rose was my frontrunner for MVP at this point, he hasn't really had his team fully healthy and in games like this he is able to will his team to win while taking over, he has proven this multiple times this season. I still do not think he is better then Paul or Williams at this point, he has definitlty worked his way into the top 10 NBA players. I firmly believe Rose is a better player then Rondo, but Rondo is the better Point Guard. Rose is a better scorer then Rondo, and that is just about where it ends. Rondo has better court vision, is a terrific rebounder and just has about everything you need in a PG, he makes smart decisions with the basketball, can play at both speeds while remaining under control and honestly I do not want to hear it is because of the Big 3, they need Rondo just as much as he needs them.
He IS overrated, despite also being what many of you say he is. He DOES get better every year, lots...But MVP? No. Too many shots to get his, not enough of a playmaker for others at this point..
I respect IndianaBball as much as any user on this forum, which makes me even more surprised he claims that Rose is anywhere near CP3. Though CP3 isn't having the greatest of seasons (I believe he's still hurt,) the amount of talent on the Hornets is incomparable to that of the Bulls....Rose gets too much credit, he has a great team around him. Everyone mentions them beating the Celtics tonight, lets not forget about their last 2 games. Here is Chris Paul's third season compared to Derrick's
Rose - 37.3mpg 45.3fg% 23.9ppg 8apg 4.4rpg 3.7tovpg 1.1 steal
Paul - 37.6mpg 48.8fg% 21.1ppg 11.6apg 4.3rpg 2.4tovpg 2.8steals
Plus Paul is the far better defender. Give me a healthy Paul by a longshot, he can do more with less.
Bulls have a great team? Boozer missed the first month, then when he came back, Noah went out. The Bulls' bench is weak and Bogans is garbage. It is basically a 2 man show every night with Deng scoring meaningless points and choking when it counts.
Thanks to the people who watched the game defending Rondo, I didn't get a chance to catch it and it just didn't make sense for Rondo to be beaten that badly by Rose, though he is only just back from an injury. Avery Bradley would have been a better back-up against the Bulls because of his defensive capabilities, with Allen or Pierce handling the playmaking.
That said, I'm very surprised the Bulls got a win against the Celtics, though they are missing KG, I'd expect more from the Cs. Oh well, not as bad as the regular season last year.
Derrick Rose is like Dwyane Wade. Not really a pg, but he has the ball in his hands so much that he racks the assists. He's a leader who plays to his abilities, therefore he can get away with playing as floor general. Best scoring threat in the NBA this year (sorry Durant), but his not a better pg than rondo, and IMO rRajon does more for his team than 95% of the league. It's like playing with Jason Kidd, You're left watching thinking seeing a guy who plays the game the right way. Knowing the kind of defender that Rajon is, seems more like the refs mixed with laterally slow footed bigs Shaq and Big Baby, mixed with some hard screens, throw in a still fully unrecovered Rondo, and a few good breakdowns could lead to a night like this. Give them a 7 games series with KG out there and we'll see the kinda player Rose is as his J will become less reliable, and the screens few and far between. Just ask Kobe. I'm a Laker fan so it kills me having to side with one of theirs, but man Rajon is so underrated by EVERYONE. The guy has that Jordan/Kobe ability to always impact the game. Can't find points, pull down 10 rebounds and dish 1,000 assists lol. It's just like Mike and Kobe, always saves his best for last. No jumpshot or freethrow shooting. Just ask LA how little of a jumper he has come last 2 minutes of a game.
IMO, if Rondo can himself fully healthy and keep his assists up like he has with all the trip dubs, I feel, not Rose would be more deserving of the MVP. Rondo is the real reason the big three aren't down in drop off obscurity like VC, T-Mac, A.I. All of the best from that 2 -4year span of drafts, save for Nash and Kobe.
I agree with the psot above about 95%. The one part I dont argee is that part about comparing him to Kobe and MJ at the end of games. MJ and Kobe did or do everything at the end of important games. The play defense, share the ball, or hit the big shot. Right now Rondo does the first 2 and not the last one. The big shots for the celtics go through Allen and Pierce. At this point they are the players who have showed that they deserve those shots. Don't get me wrong I'm a Celtics fan for sure, but I also can see the realistic side of things. Rondo does play basketball the right way and not for himself as much as anyone in the league right now beside J. Kidd.
"You failed to mention that derek rose only had 2 assists which is garbage."
You guys don't get it. Keep staring st stats, Rose took over that game down the stretch and put the Celtics away, which is what superstars do. Some nights he does it with assists, most his ability to take over games. He plays each game to his strengths.
its funny how ppl are looking at the stats and say oh rose only had two assists but dont seem to mention that no other bull had scored in double figures aside from him,boozer and brewer had 10 points and the rest of the team had a horrible shooting night there for he had to put the team on his back though and putting pressure on bostons slow bigs and getting rondo overrated denfending behind in foul trouble, rondo might be the better true pg but if i had to pick a player out of him and rose rose would be my pick people say that rondo is a better rebounder but i beg to differ because when rose had to rebound he grabbed 10+ multiple times and also rondo cant do anything rose can do on offense and he isnt that bad on defense, but i give rondo the edge as a playmaker but rose is underrated at that aspect of his game it kind of helps when you have consistant shooters and players like boston, boston as a whole is a pretty damn ball club but they are all just as important, you cant say the same thing for chicago
Rondo is not on the same level as Rose, its not even close. Seriously just ask any person in the NBA, I dont care how much talent a team already has on it, Im taking Rose over Rondo as the point guard. Im so tired of all of you that think if your point guard can score at an Elite level, its a weakness in his game rather than a strength.
There is nothing wrong with being a score first point guard and just because Rose can score better than any guard in the league does not mean that the dude cant pass.
Please I want to here your counter argument on this iguapops420. You say Rose only gets his assist because he has the ball so much. Hes averaging over 8 assist a game and he has to shoot so much more than Rondo because he can score better and his team needs him to. Just look at the people he passes to Keith Bogans.. and Kurt Thomas to give assist to and he still gets 8 a game WHILE shooting the ball as much as he does. Now lets look at Rondo, who gets 13.5 assist a game. Rondo handles the ball just as much as Rose and since Rondo doesnt shoot as much, those times when Rose is creating offense for himself, Rondo is running plays for his teamates. So dont you think naturually he would get more assist because he runs more plays for his teamates other than Rose? Plus it doesnt hurt to have Ray allen and Paul Pierce to pass to. You could put Rose on the Celtics and tell him to score less and I garentee he would average more than 10 assist per game
@DraftDanteCunningham
Neither Rajon Rondo nor Nate Robinson could keep Derrick Rose out of the paint or from getting wherever he wanted on the floor. Whether it was a screen or not, they couldn't stay in front of him. Screen or not, it's still that player's responsibility to defend. It's not just about the points Rose put up... Neither Rondo, Robinson or the Celtics defense could stop him from getting wherever he wanted.
Just a regular season game though...... I still think the Celtics win when it actually matters and they have Garnett(who is their leader and best overall post defender, don't look at his stats and think he can be replaced by Davis just based on similar scoring outputs), Perkins( another though guy who is a great post defender) and even Delonte West who will certainly play better defense than Nate Robinson and even score the ball a little bit, too.
You can always tell the people who've played ball and the people who haven't. Defense does NOT stop just because you get screened. It's still Rondo's responsibilty to defend Rose hard and fight through the screen. I think Rondo's on ball defense is overrated and his gambling is hidden by the fact Boston makes their second, third and even fourth rotations better than any team in the league.
Like I said... Rose got whatever he wanted versus Rondo, Robinson and the Boston Celtics defense. He put Rondo and Boston's bigs in foul trouble. He was either scoring or getting to the line.
I'm reading up... Right up to your two first posts and I didn't appreciate what you posted.
Rondo's supposed to be an elite/lockdown defender. Rose had 36 points and put an insane amount of pressure on Boston's defense. He was in attack mode all night. Regardless of getting screened or not, it was Rondo's (and Robinson's) responsibility to keep him out of the paint or at least make it difficult for him. Defense doesn't stop just because you get screened. Rose got past the initial line of defense all night and easily too.
Anyone who has played ball knows if you are hit with a good screen(which rondo was over and over again for those who didn't watch the game) you can not get back to you're man fast enough to stop him unless he waits for you. It's clear u like rose and change things up to suit you're arguement ( you said the exact opposite in a post before about not getting destroyed if you're getting picked) so does that only work for players you aren't fans of? You're not getting back to you're man in time if you are hit wit a good screen and the guy with the ball has a ounce of ability. Even if u haven't played ball that's common sense. Rose did have a great game so not to take away from his game but je rarely scored on rondo he scored off picks and free throws. Didn't get anyone else involved and looked more like a shooting guard not a point guard but they won and that's what counts. And by the way he is not as good as CP3. Way behind on defense. Not as good a passer or overall player. He scores more and that's it Theres two parts to basketball. Offense and defense not just offense
Anyone who honestly believes Derrick Rose isnt a good defensive player at this point doesnt know basketball. The Bulls entire success this year is predicated on defense, where Rose, as the leader of that defense is playing much better than he was in the past.
There is a reason Rose is in the MVP conversation and CP3 isnt. Cp3 isnt good enough to lead his team to a great record. Rose is. Stop looking at stats start looking at results.
You've never read anything I've posted about not being destroyed if you're getting picked.
And let's not talk about being hypocritical... When Brandon Jennings scored 55 points against Golden State last season and scored primarily off of screens, you posted that Golden State's guards got torn up and that it was still their responsibility to defend the screen and roll. You're the one changing what you said in the past, not me.
And I played ball from age 3 to 22 and at nearly every level. Defense does NOT stop just because you get screened. You make it difficult for that player to use the screen and fight through the screen. Like I said... Rose got anywhere he wanted vs Rondo, Robinson and the Celtics' defense.
36 points. 10-19 FG. 15-19 FT.
He seemed to take this matchup personally today as he broke Rondo down consisently and got into the paint...
I think Rose is a top ten player in the NBA and is nipping on the heels of Williams and Paul. I actually feel he's better than Paul.