now i know Cousins had the better year statistically...but he still has work ethic/character issues...personally i like Favor's game a lot better and i think he will develop into a more athletic/longer Al Horford...
if you had to pick one to build an expansion team around, who would it be?
I personally would take Demarcus Cousins. Sure, he has character issues. But I think with the right mentor (someone who was in the same shoes as he is), that can be altered. Also, Favors' skillset is still pending, although his defensive potential has been displayed a few times. Cousins, in my opinion, has great offensive talent and his passing ability is what really caught me by suprise.
yes, i would agree Cousins has a higher ceiling...ive just seen guys like him come around, put up great numbers, never win and then just fade away
also i saw Cousins when the Kings were in DC...and that dude played selfish as hell...and not a lick of defense.
i must say i havent seen Favors in person and that makes a big difference...most these dudes going off how they play in 2K
Haha. Remember, Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. didn't have the "luxuries" of game consoles such as PS3, XBox 360, etc., social networks such as Facbook, Tweetly Tweetle Twitter,etc. They had less distractions and more time to focus on their game. But these new kids on the block.....
Bmore_DC:I doubt any one is judging off of NBA 2k .There judging off of stats and gameplay .You do know we can watch a player without going to a game or playing a video game ,they do have this new thing called TV and we can watch basketball on that thing
BUT besides that I much rather take Cousins he had really good numbers last year for a rookie ,and was very underrated because of Blake Griffins impact .(side note even John Wall went very unoticed for a great rookie)
SO I would take Cousins because to me he has more potential then Favors and you dont have to wait for him to develop like you will have to for Derrick Favors , besides we dont even know if Favors can pan out
and thats why teams like the Lakers, Spurs, and Mavericks compete every year...because yes, they will take a chance on someone every once in a while (ron artest/dennis rodman) - they go after character, intelligence, and that competitive nature you cant teach...
from what i read on Favors, hes a hard working, good kid.
you right homie...im just saying theres a difference between seeing a player on T.V. and in person...trust me.
I would take Favors. Cousins got minutes and put up numbers his rookie year, but he didn't actually play great. His numbers will always look better than his actual impact. Cousins was dreadfully inefficient last year. Now, Cousins will improve, but he doesn't seem to have the mentality or B-ball IQ to fully reach his potential. There is a lot of risk in taking him.
Favors, on the other hand, seems like a safe bet to at least develop into a solid starter at worst, and has the athleticism and physical gifts to excel. He is very young and just needs to improve skill-wise. He may never put up the numbers Cousins will, but he will probably be more efficient and has a higher ceiling defensively due to his superior on-court energy level.
Hmmm... While Cousins is clearly more talented and offensively gifted, Favors might be the safer pick due to the fact he's mature beyond his years, has a better work ethic and is more coachable. Favors also shows signs of being a very good defensive player, while Cousins is nowhere to be found at that end.
IF Cousins matures and starts caring about defense, he'd be the no brainer pick. But his maturity is a big problem. He reminds me of a young Zach Randolph, who's even more hot headed.
I can see Favors developing into a two-way player, which I believe is more valuable then a offensive star, imo. I like Cousins a lot and I think they would compliment each other if they played together.
Yeah totally agree with IndianaBasketball
BUT the question is who would you rather build a team around
SO if I'm gonna build a team im gonna build one around the one that has the most potential because you dont win in the NBA with a bunch of good players just look at the Hawks and 76ers there probably never gonna get close to a championship with those rosters.So I would take Demarcus Cousins
Okay... Who would I build my team around? Okay... Ugh... I mean, I'd STILL take Favors lol.
I'd build it around him until I found a better piece or something. I think Favors is a very solid piece to have. Not the man, but a reliable piece to have there.
Classic case of the extremely coachable kid, vs the missunderstood dilenquent. Now here is my view...Demarcus Cousins is a much better player plain and simple. Cousins would WORK Favors. Now as a an organization from top to bottom; Owner, Management, Coaches, Trainers, and all Players the teams job is to make sure a player with Demarcus's mindset can get past those obstacles, grow as a better player mentally, and as a man responsibly. If you really dont trust that your organization can do its job and sort out those mental issues then sure take the less talented player with the more positive attitude. Although for someone as talented as Demarcus I would trust my organization to set him on the right path so he can harness his potential. You guys seem scared to take the high reward risk.
Demarcus Cousins has the skils and talent to be a franchise player, Favors has talent but he doesn't posses the skills to be a franchise player. Cousins is way ahead of the learning curve compare to Favors. Workethic/character issues with Cousins are a concern but his talent and skills outweights those issues and I would rather roll my dice with Cousins than the raw/undeveloped offensively that is Favors.
To each his own, but this is an easy question for me. Favors. He's a defensive stud, already. I can't see how you can say that Cousins has a higher ceiling. Favors is a jumping jack who dominated when they played head to head in HS.
A couple more things to keep in mind. By all accounts Favors is a GREAT kid. Everyone likes him. Not to mention he's a work out machine. Four hours a day in the gym. Lastly, I don't think you can overstate how stunted his growth was in his rookie year because of the fact that he was being mentioned in trade rumors he moment he was drafted to NJ.
Cousins on the other hand seems likely to punch an official or a teammate every game. He's already been in fights with his teammates in the locker room (in Utah funny enough). He's not a work out machine. He's not particularly humble. He's not particularly strong on defense. Although, to be fair, he's a better rebounder, more aggressive, and has a better post game than Favors.
I agree i would take Favors easily the last ten games of the season showed me he can be a very productive player in the league, the problem is he plays behind Jefferson and Millsap, whereas Cousins gets all the minutes he wants.
See the problem with favors was that the nets wanted to bring him along slowly, and they put a no body in front of him(cmon we all know kris humphris ain't sh!t, this is from a nets fan). If they would have let him play,gain experience, and learn from his mistakes I think he would have had a good rookie season instead of a mediocre flashes here and there. Also another thing that hurt him is that he was mentioned in trade rumors from the minute he got drafted, as a young player that really takes a toll on you(which he admitted), and when he got to utah he felt more comfortable.
Right Now Cousins is the better player, down the road I think Favors will surpass him if he develops right. he's already a good defensive player if he develops offensively as well as gain muscle I think he will be a beast. Lots of ifs but I think NJ will regret trading him, especially since most likely Dwill is on his way out if there is no season, and even if there is it still unlikely he will stay. Good thing if bad times are ahead i may no longer be a fan because I wanted them to stay in jersey not vote for another NY team.
Both guys i think will be stars..I Love Favors Defensive ability..But Favors seems like he's a career complimentary player..While Cousins looks like he can be a 1st option guy...
Big, athletic PFs with tons of defensive potential seem to come around every year, wheres as big, skilled centers are a rarity. With that said, Cousins doesn't play winning ball. Selfish, lazy, inefficient. Comparing him to Randloph, it took him 10 years to play winning ball. If I'm taking one of those guys to start my franchise I'd take Favors, then sign Cousins in decade when he's grown up.
I know most of you will disagree, but with two players that are close together in upside, this would be a no-brainer for me if I were a GM. I like Cousins, I love his cockiness and fire on the court, but he has just had way too many question marks and issues early in his career for me. Before the draft he had question marks, but with them being only questions at the time I wouldve considered him over Favors. well eventhough he played well as a rookie, a lot of those question marks were answered. A lot of stuff that doesnt even make the news. Its been said he has a bad locker room and practice attitude and his work ethic is just not very good. Cousins sounds and looks more like a new version of Barkley. Which individually, he may become an all-time great like the latter, but may face the same fate and go ringless because who is gonna want to play with him that is on a high calibur level?
With Favors, we have heard just the opposite. The kid has a great attitude and work ethic. He is raw yes, but I dont care about rawness when I have a guy that I know is not going to stop working hard.
@fastdan....I dont know if Randolph ever had the attitude problem that Cousins is rumored to having. I mean didnt he punch Donte Greene because Greene inbounded the ball to Reke (the teams' #1 option)? Then again I may be wrong as I wasnt following BBall as much in Randolph's early years.
I like the safe guy, Favors...but, that doesnt mean DF wont be a great player, he could be. I like his progression, his stats didnt pop off the screen but by the minutes, he is a good player already. It will take him longer to become good than Cousins but I like his progress so far.
another thing I notice is people like Cousins more because he looks like a franchise player or 1st option type player, but that doesnt mean championships...if that is our ultimate litmus test. Elton Brand was picked #1 and Lamar Odom #4 in the same draft. They both played on the Clippers and even played at the same time, so we cant use the argument about sucky teams. Brand always more of a 1st option or franchise type (before the injuries) still has not had the career success of Odom. Odom is not a 1st option player but has the skills to help any pretender become a contender. Favors may end up being a complimentary piece ala Odom, but if you are winning and getting paid, whats wrong with that?
Cousins is a legit starting NBA center right now. You can run your offense through him though it is a little painful to do so. Favors is a backup power forward who hustles and plays some D but can't do anything on offense beyond put back dunks. How are we comparing these guys? You can find a backup power forward in free agency whenever you want, but there are about 10 centers in the league that can score more than 10 points a game. I think Favors can be a starting power forward but solid starter is basically looking like his ceiling. I don't think he will be one of the top 10 power forwards in the league at anypoint in his career; All Star is just not in the cards. If he was going to be that, he would be doing more than averaging 8 points a game already. Cousins just needs a baby step improvement (mainly in his shooting percentage) to be a top ten at center. Factor in that Center is a harder position to fill with someone who isn't a total stiff and I still don't see how you compare these guys. It is interesting, but no way does anyone take Favors over Cousins to start a team.
But is Favors, with his helpside D, perhaps the more flexible piece of a championship team? Hmmm, maybe. Could you stick him on a team with two top ten players and probably have something a little bit better than sticking Cousins on that same team (like swapping either player for Bosh on the Heat). Well I will give you that. But it would need to be a perfect fit. Cousins is just going to win you more games by himself though.
for some reason i can see cousins as the new age sheeed. skills and attitude with a few less technicals LOL
43% shooting from the field for a big, if Cousins is your first option on offense you might want to get used to seeing the lottery for a long time. I haven't looked this up, but im quite certain that a percentage like that is either at the very bottom at his position or hovering in the bottom 2 or 3. Cousins is a classic example of a horrible team designating a guy as a 2nd option cause they have nothing else. If Favors got 13 shot attempts a game in New Jersey's or Utahs offense last year he would have put up similar numbers with better efficency. I don't like Cousins at all developing much further than what he is right now, the only real skill I've ever liked that he posses is that he is a pretty mean defensive rebounder, but aside from that he doesnt have much else. Doesn't have a great attitude, isn't in the greatest shape, and only competes on one end of the floor. With favors being extremelly raw, the affect he has on the defensive end of the floor is pretty amazing, the guy has the lateral quickness to stay in front of guards, and competes on every possesion. If the dude gets a post game, and or develops a 10-15 foot jumper its over.
Cousins always seemed to be regarded as a better prospect but Favours got drafted higher perhaps due to the issues surrounding Cousins. In the NBA Cousins has continued to be the better player but his antics have caused concern and maybe Favours could have put up similar points if he had been given DMC's minutes.
Favours was traded and will no doubt take time to learn a new system in Utah and will be competing for minutes alongside Jefferson with Kanter, Millsap and co. Favours has only just turned 20 so he can be given time to develop and you could argue that honing his skills in practice and being part of a more competitive team could perhaps help him as much long term as dropping 20ppg on a losing team as Cousins might continue to do.
I'd agree that Cousins continues to have more upside and if they could hone his defensive skills then with his size he could be a monster at both ends of the court as perhaps only half a dozen C's could match him for size realistically. Favours is probably the better athlete going forward so can base his game on this and whlist he may not match DMC statswise I wonder if overall he might have a more successful career teamwise as the Odom/Brand comparison above states.
I think Cousins will be more productive than Favors, but Cousins has a ways to go in terms of maturity, IQ, and willingness to learn to be a winning player. I can see Favors playing an important role on a winning team more than I can for Cousins, although Cousins is the more rare and talented player.
Cousins is a 6'11 295 C who shot under 50% from the field last season. That speaks to an adjustment period. He also became a little more of a jump shooter than most would like for a man his size to be, although he has a somewhat natural touch, that's not good enough. He needs to polish it more or abandon it and use his size more. His post game is nice for his age, but he should work on getting in and out of his moves more decisively because he's not an explosive enough athlete to get shots over, on, or through the D. He can get his shots blocked at times. If I were him, I'd watch footage of Al Jefferson, a guy who's built kinda like him and has the same type of athletic traits to see how he uses counters and such to get free down low. Cousins was also a poor defender, which is no surprise if you watched him in HS or even at Kentucky. He is nonchalant on that end and can let a frustrating offensive sequence correlate to a 0 zero effort defensive possession. He is not without red flags.
I don't like that Favors isn't aggressive offensively alot, but he does have the type of demeanor and learning curve that seems like he can fit on a team that wins and play a solid role. Favors also competes on D. I'd be able to give a more definitive answer about Favors and Cousins next year though. If Cousins has polished his game more and grown up, then he is the choice. If Favors plays aggressive consistently and continues to play both ends, while Cousins continues to show his red flags, then he is the choice.
Cousins will probably take a lot of shots whenever he is on the court and will likely always be a major part of his team's offense. This bodes well for his super star potential, but could render him ineffective if he remains inefficient. All those missed shots and turnovers really hurt his team last year. I would say that Cousins could really drag a team down if they already have shot creators and scorers on the floor with his shot selection and decision making.
Favors, on the other hand, appears like the type of player who could play either big man position for any team, with any group of players. His star potential may be lower than Cousins, but I would say Favors is more likely to start on a championship caliber team.
Chevilious is exactly right. Cousins is in serious danger of becoming a classic perceived star player on a bad team if he doesn't improve both his skills or his mentality.
everyone is sweating Cousins numbers but he was just not that efficient...too many turnovers...terrible shooting % and terrible defense...how is he a franchise player again?
im not saying he doesnt have the tools to be great, he does, but its not out of the question to compare these 2 players
Cousins has so much potential, size, nimble footwork, handles, soft shooting touch, and under rated passer, but of course he is a head case!
I think the only thing you can say about Favors is that he has potential, plus he already been traded!
I watched a game where the Kings were playing the Thunder. Perkins could not handle guarding Cousins because his footspeed and height. Also, Ibaka couldn't guard him because of Cousins brute strength. I was amaze at how easy Cousins was scoring against 2 above average defensive players.
Yeah, i'll still take Cousins..Becuz you can find plenty of vets like Joe Smith or Theo Ratliffe to give you the exact same numbers and supply the defense that Favors will...And they'll be alot cheaper....But where can you find a big with Cousins skills? Cousins has the potential to be an All Star next season or in a year or 2..Can you say that about Favors?
I'm a little confused as to how a guy who shot 43% from the field, and averaged 3 turnovers a game blew you out of the water with his offensive ability, so much so some of you are deeming him a possible all-star. I still think he was the 3rd best big from that draft behind Monroe and Favors, he just had inflated numbers on a bad team, while favors sat behind veteran bigmen.
he was a rookie last year, so Turnover's/lower than expected FG %'s and maturity issues are normal for Rookies(especially Big men) ...Name me 5 Better Pf/C's in the 20-25 year old range...I'd build around Cousins for sure as long as he's not the only Guy you have that's any good...If DMC was lucky enough to land on a Team with Veterans, a Team Like the Pistons a few Years Ago( Billups,Rip,Prince,Dice and the Wallace's) where everyone touches the ball equally and he's got mentors and a defender behind him ala Sheed and Big Ben...I totally see Cousins as a Pf/C that in time will be part of a very successful team...I dont think Sac town is that place(I could see them trade him down the road)...anyone that picks Favors over Cousins should have learned from New Jersey's mistake in the draft...At the Time Cousins would have been a the perfect fit next to Lopez, and had they not wasted their pick on a project like Favors and spending all that money on Travis Outlaw they could have had something in NJ/Brooklyn...
I like this topic a lot.
I'd take Favors in a heartbeat.
I've always believed that for an NBA GM, the best route is to build on character and the rest will take care of itself. These two have been in the limelight since they were freshmen, and I always thought Cousins had the better NBA upside because his kind of natural girth is uncommon. He has the tools to be unstoppable offensively, and is just an instinctive basketball player. The kid averaged 10 apg as a freshman in high school!
That being said, I can't stand what i've seen of his personality. I don't think he's a good kid and think he would always bring an aura of underachieving and poor professionalism to just about any franchise he was asked to have a major role on.
Cousins is a rarer talent, but I don't picture us ever saying Favors pissed away his talent. Not to mention there is still serious potential with him as well. At worst I think Favors will be a rock solid starting 4 man. He could eventually be a standout defensively. I'd take him
@ The Scare Crow That mistake you say New Jersey made landed them DWill, i gurantee you if it was cousins in a trade the jazz orginization wouldn't have touched him.
at least the Nets wouldve had a great young duo on the Block in Cousins and Lopez, and they would have had their draft pick this year(Irving or Derrick Williams) plus their cap space which they wasted on Outlaw and taking on Deron's contract...so...you'd rather have a core of D.Will,Lopez,Humpries and Outlaw then a core of Lopez,DMC and Irving...Harris could have gotten them a Sf and they would still have cap room...
I feel like both are very promising prospects who did not play up to their full potential this year, but I feel that Favours has a certain lack of fire when he plays, or is just not engaged. Demarcus also is an extremly skilled and gifted big men with talents that cannot be easily replaced. He does have charcter issues but I would undoubtly pick him due to his superior skill package and his agressive mentality.
Yeah ..I really like Favors upside also...And think he's going to be a solid pro...But From day 1 in New Jersey Favors was Given the Starting Spot..But he couldnt beat out a career Journeyman in Kris Humphies...He played in 56 games for the Nets and only got 2 Double Doubles for them and 2 for Utah...While Cousins got 26 for the year..Cousins field goal average is only 43% becuz he took alot of il-advised outside shots..Something he will improve on....
I have to say Favors although Cousins is more polished right now I believe that Favors is going to be the better player in the long run. Also Favors doesnt have the attitude and all of the other issues that Cousins has.
I like how you everyone complains on Cousins little mistakes like bad passes,turnovers,bad shot taking and maturity
but there little mistakes that means there easy to correct and him being just a rookie last year he still has plenty of time to correct thoughs little mistakes
I think Cousins is getting overated on offense here. He shot 43% and that is miserable for a center or even PF. Compare him to other current franchise centers or PF's and it doesn't add up. Yeah he averaged 14 points.....on one of the worst teams in the league. Here are the rookie FG% ,rounded to the nearest whole number, of franchise level big men. Cousins doesn't add up. If he is to achieve franchise level status he would be a huge exception to the rule.
Tim Duncan: 52%
Dwight Howard: 52%
Kevin Garnett: 49%
LaMarcus Aldridge: 50%
Amare Stoudamire: 47%
Andrew Bogut: 53%
Al Horford: 50%
Bosh Spice: 46%
Blake Grffin: 51%
I'll take Favors. Neither guy is going to win you titles as a number 1 IMO, but at least Favors can be a defensive powerhouse to build around. HE's got work-ethic so IMO he could very well end up a 20-10 guy with terrific D in his own right. Cousins is just too much of a lazy punk. All the way back to hs when scouts where questioning his rebounding due to laziness. He'll reach 20-10 at some point but he's going to absolutely have to stop shooting the j's, play d, and stop being a lockerroom cancer who think she deserves everything handed to him(including inbound passes). Antoine Wright even mentioned him as being a terrible locker room presence saying he was a spoiled brat more or less. His skill is rare as is his saize, but he ain't got Shaq's raw athleticism that can get him through while being immature, and hes not Rasheed Wallace like everyone keeps saying. At least while Sheed would go headcase and become rather lazy offensively shooting jumpers instead of getting down in the post, you could ALWAYS count on him to bring near elite level D night in and night out. Cousins just seems like a guy who will get by on natural talent to the tune of 15-18 points and 10-11 rebounds with decent assist numbers, but will never put in the work needed to reach his full potential. I also think he's gonna have the shorter career. Could end up very Eddy Curry like with better rebounding numbers. Anyone seen him during the lockout, because he's a prime candidate for the Vin Baker twinkie diet lockout award.
Everyone claims Cousins is more skilled, like defense doesn't count. Cousins is a wreck out there, while Favors is as advanced there as Cousins is on offense. Given that, and Favors being younger, and more coachable... I'll take Utah's kid.
To me the difference seems to be that Cousins will give you a mix of frustratingly inefficient games and games where he is unstoppable. While Favors gives you more consistent but much blander performances. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens over the next ten years.
P.S. I do not think it is hard to guess who my pick would be.