College exposes hyped players
More often than not, going to college and staying in college past a freshman season has exposed many hype high school stars, and would have exposed some others had they gone to school.
Quentin Richardson (Depaul) many said he would have been the #1 pick after his season freshman season had he declared. He came back to school and found out he need polish and dropped to #18
Terrence Morris (Maryland) many believed Terrence Morris was the best college player in the nation when he was a sophomore and would have went #1. He stayed still his senior year and went late second round.
Harrison Barnes(Duke). One the most hyped high school players ever. Probably could have went #1 out of high school if that rule was still in play.. Yet he stayed two years in college and didnt appear to be the next coming, where will he be selected now? I doubt #1!!!!
Joakim Noah (Florida) After their first national championship when he was a sophmore, people were saying he was a possible #1 pick, came back to school to win another and fell to #9.
Paul Harris (Syracuse) Ron Artest 2.0. Had mr. Harris been able to declare coming out of high school, he was a surefire lottery pick. Yet he went to school for three years and showed no real offensive game and didnt get drafted.
Derrick Caracter (Louisville and Utep) Many called him the next Lebron when he was just a 9th grader. Had he been allowed to come out of High School he was a surefire lottery pick. Went to college and found out he was lazy, immature, and uninspired, ended up in the late second round.
Kelvin Tolbert (Michigan State) Tremendous athlete, NBA body in high school. Had he declared coming out of high school, a lottery pick. Nevertheless went four years to college and not drafted.
Malik Hariston ( Oregon) Said he was going to Carmelonize Oregon with a one and done and national title. Went to college for more than one year and found out he wasnt good. Had he declared coming out of High School probably a mid- late first round pick. Ended up being a late second round pick.
I can go on forever, but lets address the players who skipped college to avoid being exposed
Deshawn Stevenson- there were Kobe comparisons coming out of high school, but i havent seen nothing special in the pros. Had he went to college and not sure he would have been drafted, let alone in the first round
Sebastian Telfair- Telfair was smart, he knew he needed to cash in on the hype. Overrated, undersized, and couldnt shoot coming out of high school. College would have exposed him. Not drafted
Robert Swift- Tall for nothing. Had he went to college probably not drafted.
Desana Diop- Awful, no offensive skills. He was a lottery pick out of High School, second round pick at best had he gone to college.
Martell Webster- Was supposed to be the next Glen Rice coming out High School and ended up in the first round. Had he gone to college, i see a strong second round pick.
Kwame Brown- Tough call- maybe could have still end up in the first round, but not a number one pick.
Leon Smith- First round pick- had he went to college, they would have found out that he was crazy and probably not get drafted.
Can you think of any others?!!!!
Harrison Barnes ( Duke ) this one was nice lol
Hey we all make mistakes, I must of had the dukies on the brain
Yes, we all make mistakes, but you put that Harrison Barnes went to DUKE! You can't make that mistake yo.
"Harrison Barnes(UNC). One the most hyped high school players ever."
That's really not true; I remember when he was coming out of high school he wasn't even the number one recruit on every website.
Seriously. Thems be fightin' words for UNC fans such as myself. That's like confusing North Korea with South Korea.
If Josh Selby was ranked number one in that class, he has to be the most overrated number one recruit in high school basketball history. One injury plagued season at Kansas and did nothing. Is he in the league now?
Name me another true freshman that was name to the AP Preseason All-America-Team. Im willing to bet that you cant name one before 1986.That sounds like alot of hype to me.
I apologize to all of Tobacco Road Nation for accidentally placing Harrison Barnes in a Duke Jersey!!!!!
Josh Selby got drafted by the Grizzlies, struggled, but tore it up in the D League.
Memphis is responsible for him so after the D League season I guess he will be back on the
Grizzlies roster. He would now be 4th on our point guard depth chart but our team only has 12 guys and
we can carry 13 for the playoffs.
We might as well call him up and play him a few minutes in our last few games to give our other guys some rest.
If we rest our starters for the final game against the Magic (Dwight Howard might not play) then we could use him some
at the one or two guard spots.
He's pretty good offensively and quick but his defense isn't there yet. But, if we go small off the bench he would fit in
well with either Arenas or Mayo.
I am pretty sure we have him signed through next year. We might need to see what we have so we can either invest in him for the future or trade him for some cash.
Josh Selby is on the Memphis Grizzlies. He must have really impressed in workouts, I thought leaving after his unproven freshman season was a big risk.
I don't even know why people bring up Noah... he made the decision because he wasn't mentally ready which imo was a very smart move plus he was apart of cbb history..sure he missed out on a couple mill. But he got drafted into a perfect situation and more than made up for it with future contracts and endorsement money...then again he was one of the few guys who could afford to be patient because of his families financial situation..
"Leon Smith- First round pick- had he went to college, they would have found out that he was crazy and probably not get drafted."-NJHooper95
The ultimate highlight of his short storied career was telling Don Nelson to run laps. LOL talk about head case foreal.
No idea how you have a neg for creating this post. Good post.
Terrance Morris stock fell every year he was in college. Good thing it did so some team didn't get hosed. College does expose players but the systems a player plays in or against (zones) creates some diamonds in the rough. It widens the lens on some overated guys but hides guys too
Think about Tyson Chandler. He was a raw prospect and would have had to stay in college 4 years as he would have averaged like 8 points a game. Instead he was a raw but productive young NBA player. Even James Macadoo, he would have averaged the same amount in the NBA this year as he did at UNC. Roy Williams handcuffed his playing time and that time could have been spent with a NBA assistant coach honing his skills daily. Besides two or three games he balled hard it was almost a redshirt year. Did this year in the NCAA expose Jeremy Lamb or was it a waste of his time to play with two shoot first point guards that taught him to chuck it because it aint coming back?
Much study has been done on how Ben Howlands system causes guys to be under productive but still highly sought after as pro prospects. For instance Noel Nerlans. If he goes to Cuse then he doesnt get to maximize his weak side shot blocking skills, because guys rarely drive in the teeth of the zone. But at Kentucky he gets to show case and hone that ability. If he was in Orange that ability wouldnt cease to exist but if he only blocked a shot and a half next year then would we be saying college exposed his lack of shot blocking ability.
Wikipedia says Barnes was the first one.
I appreciate it. I thought it was a good post, people was tripping on the Harrison Barnes thing, but you know it happens. Im a big D Strickland guy so of course I know what team Barnes is on. But oh well.
Well you just proved my point. If he was the first one, dont you think he had alot of hype behind him to be the first one EVER?
Sean Dockery was not exposed but it was his system.
He was very hyped, in facted over hyped.
He was named Preseason National Player of the Year as a incoming Freshman.
Anthony Davis, Oden, Durant, Carmelo didnt get it the award.
There is nothing more overhype than any preseason award. Then not to live up to it makes it all the better.
Dockery didnt show much at Duke after being a high touted player in high school. I do agree with Cheyenne Lawton, I think Coach K restricted him and he lost confidence down the road
Yeah that's an insult to Duke fans too if you said Barnes went there...
It's true that Harrison Barnes had very high expectations put on him his Freshman year. He was supposed to be the saviour of UNC after their NIT appearance the year before. He was hyped out of high school due to the way he played his game. He's a 6'8 SF with a good jumpshot and in high school his lack of ball handling and athleticism may not have been noticed. But his exposure may have been a good thing, if he were to go to a team like Charlotte and be expected to be the franchise go to guy he probably would have struggled. Now he's in a situation where he could go to a team like cleveland and play with Kyrie. They're good friends and would compliment each others games. Kyrie will continue to attack and find Harrison and put him in positions to score. They could form a pretty good 1-2 punch for Cleveland.
Yes college has dropped his stock but it could end up being a blessing in disguise in the long run for his career. That's just my opinion and I might be biased because I am a UNC fan but I guess we'll have to wait and see if the hype about him will pan out in the NBA
Good post...yea college can weaken and strengthen your draft stock..but that's the beauty of it all
will be over recruited at his position every year he is at Duke. Coach K finds guys like Paulus, Dockery and now Cook to play 4 years and just be defensive players.
I personally think going to Duke hurt Josh McRoberts. I remember seeing his as a prep player and thinking this guy is going to be a white Lamar Odom. He could pass, handle and rebound at 6"10 while having a okay shot.
You hit it on the nose!
People coming out of highschool are always projected high cuz in highschool they dominate. Their production drops when they hit college and more so in the NBA.
I just need to know which publications you were reading so I can avoid them if they called Caracter the next LeBron and Harris the next StJohns Artest. That is total insane. Ill give you Barnes and Noah but Noah is a good player so he really isnt exposed. He just fell victim to the grass is greener syndrome. and even QRich cuz he worked with Lance Williams at DePaul but he was an inside guard who had to improve 1- ball handling and 2-shooting range
Other people that fell or were hyped
Roy Hibbert - he is good now but they were talking about #1 pick and he dropped
DeJuan Wagner- the hype machine is still strong in Camden, NJ
I actually like the 1 year rule it doesn't make players stay longer than they have to and allows for scouts to see players against better competition. It hasn't been great for college basketball, but I'm loving what it's done for the NBA. One year of exposure is all you need for players to get hyped, look at Anthony Davis, and that one year also exposes players for not being quite as good as advertised (See Harrison Barnes-still really good though).
Would you rather just stay one more year, be exposed, and get drafted where you should be? Or would you rather be a one-and-done, and become a huge draft bust that will haunt you forever?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
The fact that Harrison Barnes is on this list but Josh McRoberts isn't, is just sickening to me. Barnes at least averaged more than 13 ppg. McRoberts had a shot to be the number 1 pick out of High School and was drawing Chris Webber comparisons coming into college.
That is just blatant bias by the original poster IMHO. I feel bad for Barnes. THE GUY AVERAGED 17 PPG on a team with 6 first round talents on it. His last two games have people in a rampage and I don't understand why.
Sebastian Telfair, Got so lucky from the hype from the movie Through The Fire on ESPN and being related to Stephon Marbary. I really think if he had gone to college it's likely he wouldn't have gotten drafted at all.
I dont think that college exposes players today...I think that by what you posted you are talking draft status....the longer you stay the more it is perceived you are not ready to go.
some of the players you listed are good NBA players, some will be in the future. others like Terrence Morris couldve been, just because he didnt have much of an NBA career doesnt mean he didnt have the talent to do so. a lot hinges on the team and coaches you play for. some guys dont have the desire. some only want to make enough money and get out. some dont enjoy the politics. I did a post here on Walter Berry. many thought he was a bust in the NBA but actually, he preferred playing overseas and making lucrative money there as opposed to playing in the NBA and conforming to be a role player.
Also for every player you named, there is a player who was grossly underated due to his college performance. Voshon Lenard was drafted by the Bucks, went back to finish his senior year at Minnesota and his senior year was worse than his junior. He was waived before his rookie season even started.
I actually think we are saying the same thing except you are saying players were exposed, but I see some as being underated.
Here are some players that didnt look like the killers they were coming out of HS and were underated but NOT exposed at the college level.
Rafer Alston (was not a dominant JC player and didnt do much at Fresno State either)
Felipe Lopez should have gone pro out of high school. Maybe he was overhyped but his draft stock fell by going
Quinn Cook is NOT a defensive point guard. In fact his defense is the reason why he couldn't sniff the court much this season. Maybe you're confused with Tyler Thornton? If you are Thornton was brought in for the sole purpose of being a stalwart on defense. Nothing else.
And IMHO McRoberts wouldn't have been successful in the NBA no matter where he would've gone to college. The kid had questionable work ethic and butt heads with his teammates a lot throughout his two years at Duke. Coach K knew he wasn't ready, but yet he still entered his name in the draft. He could've gone to a smaller school where they could shield his flaws (not wanted to bang down low, shot too many jumpers), but he would be out of the league right now and more of a bust than he already is.
And also @nbafan the hype surrounding McRoberts was nowhere near the level the Barnes's hype machine got. It didn't help either that it seemed Barnes actually believed in the hype as well. McRoberts was compared to Odom, but Barnes was compared to Kobe and Jordan! And just to be fair McRoberts didn't shoot nearly as much as Barnes did and also contributed his sophomore year in other ways than just scoring which was Barnes's only asset. His sophomore year he averaged 8 rpg, 3.5 apg, 2.5 bpg, and 1.5 spg. Also on 50% shooting.
Going to UNC hurt Barnes a lot imo draft stock wise much like going to Duke hurt McRoberts. Both schools showed their weaknesses during their freshman years and going into their 2nd year neither did much to improve on them. (Barnes's handle, and McRobert's low post game)
I've always been part of the contigent that believes no matter which college you choose, if you're destined to be a great NBA player and you have the physical talents to do so, you'll be one.
You might get lucky and select the college that might speed up the process to make you a legit NBA player or you might pick the wrong college. And if you do it'll only be a minor set back on your way to becoming a star.
If Barnes goes out and sucks in the NBA, it is really not UNC's fault. If he went to Duke instead and became this NPOY in his first year and gets picked #1 overall...imho he'd suck just as much. And vice versa if he becomes a star in the league.
NBA stars have "it" in them. McRoberts did not have "it" in him. He had all of the physical talents in the world, but he was not destined to be a great player. He would've been just as bad in the NBA if he went any other place.
Ahkan you do make some good points but I disagree to a certain extent. Going to a certain school can depend on the devolopment made.
But the point of my post is that Harrison Barnes went from being considered a lock for number 1 out of HS to a top 5 pick. THAT IS HARDLY "GETTING EXPOSED". McRoberts on the other hand went from being a top 3 pick to being picked in the second round due to being exposed to his questionable work ethic, attitude, and just softeness in general the guy was softer than tissue paper. Do you see the point I am trying to make here? McRoberts was the number 1 player out of his class and entered his sophomore year the year after Redick, and Williams left. HE SHOULD HAVE DOMINATED. The starting 5 for Duke that year was a Sophomore Paulas, Freshman Scheyer, Junior Nelson, McRoberts and Zoubek. HE WAS THE ONLY OPTION DOWN LOW. HE SHOULD HAVE DOMINATED, HE SHOULD HAVE SHOT MORE. Going to UNC did not "hurt Barnes' draft stock a lot" he fell MAYBE 4 spots and still has a shot at going number 2 in the draft.
Do you see the point I am trying to make here?
It's simple. Scouts hype up H.S kids and college let's you know who the player really is after year two. It's hard to know how good a player is in H.S be ause the best ones are always bigger,stronger,faster,taller than just about everyone else they face
Additional players exposed in college off the top of my head;
James White (Fla/Cin)
Sean Dockery (Duke)
Dameon Mason (Marq/LSU): Dunno if you guys remember him, but he was a top 30 recruit and supposed "heir apparent" to Dwayne Wade at Marquette, and fell flat on his face. Throwing his name out there since I went to high school with him.
Frank Williams (Illinois)
J.R. Giddens (Kan/New Mexico?)
"And IMHO McRoberts wouldn't have been successful in the NBA no matter where he would've gone to college. The kid had questionable work ethic and butt heads with his teammates a lot throughout his two years at Duke."
I agree about the work ethic and butting heads.
"I personally think going to Duke hurt Josh McRoberts."
Me and my brother have been saying this for years. I really dont see where Coach K has broken any player's game down and made them NBA ready. The guys that were good in the NBA were always good players since HS. Jay Williams, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer (who's stock dropped), Battier, Laettner, etc... And of course guys like Irving and Rivers just needed a stop gap on the way to the NBA.
I have seen him screw some NBA careers though. Ricky Price being most notable and notorious. Dockery was actually a lot better player than he showed at Duke.
Back to Josh though. Duke just didnt fit him. Yeah, you are right about his work ethic and stuff....but Duke did not know how to use the physical tools and athleticism of that guy. He was a MUCH better talent that Mason Plumlee (and yes, more athletic). People rave about Plumlee's athleticism, but its above average to me, not elite. Someone else couldve gotten more out of McRoberts I believe. Coach K had never really had any super athletic bigs....I just think it was all wrong for Josh. He shouldve been a 3 year or 4 year guy like Hansbrough but I think that things werent working out at Duke so he got up out. The reason why he is still in the league is because after he got to the NBA and saw how hard it was....the light went on and he improved his attitude and work ethic. Had he done that in college and learned more fundamentals....I think he couldve been a different player.
Also....Dockery really shouldve went somewhere else. I remember in pre-draft camps some scouts were amazed at how good he was to be a relative unknown at such a big school. They wondered why K had him buried for so long. He had some talent....but those years at Duke set him back. I remember his senior year there....he was saving their azz and I was like dang...this guy is good, why didnt he get any burn?
Daniel Ewing was another guy that didnt fit at Duke. These were top HS players we are talking about....they didnt necessarily get exposed....they just didnt fit. Coach K drives defense hard, if you have some deficiencies...you will be in his doghouse....the problem is, if you ever get in his doghouse, you may as well transfer because you will NEVER get out.
I remember I saw Ricky Price in the mall before his senior year....I told him he should transfer. He didnt. Man, you tell me how a guy with that athleticism and game who in his SOPHOMORE season avg 14ppg and 3.5rpg while playing 32mpg go to his senior year playing 8mpg with avg of 2.7ppg and 1.1rpg??? Price was heading for 1st team all-acc the next year before he somehow fell out of favor with Coach K. K gave Carrawell his spot which was bullchit because Carrawell on his best day wasnt half that player Price was on his worst.
Its not surprising....K's menton...Bobby Knight did the same thing with Delray Brooks...took a HS POY and buried him on the bench. Brooks transferred to Providence under Rick Pitino and formed a backcourt with Billy Donovon too the Friars to their 2nd ever FINAL FOUR appearance.
"Dameon Mason (Marq/LSU): Dunno if you guys remember him, but he was a top 30 recruit and supposed "heir apparent" to Dwayne Wade at Marquette, and fell flat on his face. Throwing his name out there since I went to high school with him."-Grandmama
I remember Dameon! He was a BALLER!
To defend Noah a bit, the 2006 draft was a notoriously terrible one. 3,4 and 5 were Adam Morrison, Tyrus Thomas and Sheldon Williams. Brandon Roy, at #6, is retired 6 years later and Bargs went #1 that year and although he's had a good amount of success I think quite a few teams would choose Noah over him.
If Noah went in the top 6, he would have been a better pick than anyone except Aldridge and Bargnani