Clutch Stats- Kobe V. Lebron
For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:
4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points, production per 48 minutes of clutch time:
James 45 G, 151 Min, 66 Pts, 16 Reb, 8.3 Ast, 49% Fg, 3.2 Stl, 3.2 Blk, +/- 116
Bryant 28 G, 132 Min, 51 Pts, 7.3Reb, 3.6 Ast, 44% Fg, 1.8 Stl, 0.0 Blk, +/- 19
2003-2009 (including playoffs)
Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.
James: 17/50 Fg, 34% Fg, 14/20 Ft, 6 Ast, 4 TO
Bryant: 14/56 Fg, 25% Fg, 12/15 Ft, 1 Ast, 5 TO
Thanks for posting these. Also, where did you get the stats? I would like to favor that website.
theres not many new stats on there anymore for some reason
Kobe maybe better at making game winners, but Lebron does more in the 4th quarter
ask 30 gm's in the league who they want with the ball in his hands at the end of game and 30 gms will tell you kobe. It has been that way for about 7-8 years now. Stats are misleading. Kobe hit more game winners last season then lebron has hit in his career.
i dont think last 5 minutes of a game counts. for me its last 2 minutes of a 5 point game. kobe hit about 6 game winners last year, i remember 1 in lebrons career and that was against the magic and he acted like that was the championship winner. kobe all day over lebron the last 2 minutes of any close game.
Stats dont tell the whole story and most of us know that. There are intagibles that arent measured in numbers. You really have to watch to know.
Kobe wants to rip your heart out, he lives for that moment. In the clutch, I want him taking that shot.
But if we're talking right now today who do I want on my team its Lebron.
The comparisons aren't going to mean much after this season i feel. LJ is going to play the Magic role and Kobe as you know is chasing 23.
yeah, "clutch" is about as hard a thing to quantify with stats as it gets. You just have to watch enough basketball and have an instinct for what equals being clutch. Missing doesnt automatically make you unclutch. Not making the right play or passing up opportunities to take the shot when you have it is more about being clutch then just makes and misses.
double post, sorry
When has LeBron been unclutch? Because I can certainly remember him making multiple game winners, and game winning plays...
never said lebron was unclutch, just not as clutch as kobe. Ive seen lebron pass open jumpers and shots inside that he could have taken so that teammates who were further away could shoot. Ive seen him miss tons of big ft's. Ive seen him settle for 3's when his man was back peddaling and he could have easily gotten to the basket but he was proabbly worried to get fouled and have to make ft's. Not being as clutch as kobe is not a really a bad thing though becasue thats where kobe is at the top of his game.
I've seen Kobe miss much more than I have LeBron.
again, thats where you cant say being clutch is just about misses and makes. Jordan even made a comercial about how he has missed tons of game winners. Being clutch is the mind set to make the right play and take the shot. Kobe has that mid set more then lebron and has thus both made and missed more clutch shots.
I just disagree then. So if LeBron just shoots those shots and misses them he becomes more clutch? Because Kobe does that but LeBron could make the right play and if a player misses he is not as clutch? But if he misses it is perectly ok.
no, thats why i said it is not a simple thing to make sense of. Its not about just misses and makes. You just have to watch them play and get a feel for who you want with the ball in their hands and who is gonna have the best chance to make the play. The GM's have no bias on this issue and for about the past 8 years kobe has gotten about all the votes for these polls when the gms are asked before each season.
Give me Lebron. Say what you want, but everything Kobe has done LeBron would've done if he had those teams. He would've gotten Smush and Kwame to the playoffs too. Why? Because he was a MUCH better team player then Kobe then, and he still could score that much. He averaged 31.4 that year already. If you put Kobe on the Cavs team that went to the Finals, they probably lose 1st or 2nd round in the playoffs, if Kobe hadn't of been giftwrapped Gasol, he still wouldn't understand how to play team ball. Lakers would've won the last two championships with LeBron, most likely 3. The only thing I would want Kobe over LeBron for is a last second shot. LeBron makes a lot out of nothing, and Kobe makes a lot out of a lot.
BTW Lebron is 8-6 against the Lakers
Kobe had 2 wins early in there career when he played a combined 23 minutes.
Throwing those 2 games out:
Kobe 28.6 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.7 apg 41.06 FG%
LeBron 27.9 ppg 6.9 rpg 6.9 apg 43.13%
what buzzer shots has kobe made in the playoffs?
i remember one against phoenix in like 2006 and one againts detroit in 2004(they lost both series). i also remember that last year he airrrballed against phoenix, and missed again against OKC,( both series woulda gone to game 7 if there were no gasol or artest)
are there any other ones?
kobe's been injured and played sick against lebron seemingly every other time they go head to head though.
he hit a buzzer beating game winer against the suns in the second round in like 2001. He has had plenty of clutch shots in the final 30 seconds of games, but cant rmember all of them.
Kobe attempted at least 21 shots in every game I counted except 1, where he took 17.
"He would've gotten Smush and Kwame to the playoffs too. Why? Because he was a MUCH better team player then Kobe then, and he still could score that much. He averaged 31.4 that year already. If you put Kobe on the Cavs team that went to the Finals, they probably lose 1st or 2nd round in the playoffs, if Kobe hadn't of been giftwrapped Gasol, he still wouldn't understand how to play team ball. Lakers would've won the last two championships with LeBron, most likely 3."
How do you KNOW all of this lol???
All I'm reading is a bunch of "IFs." Truth is, you don't know yupyup. We can always say IF this or IF that...
I tend to believe you would be in the minority of people who don't believe those statements then.
yup yup, you say lebron would have gotten those smush, kame, walton, medvendenko, brian cook teams to the playoffs becasue he was a much better team player.? Maybe, but Trust me on this one, the last thing that team needed was a TEAM player. Kobe had no other choice but to score 35 a game that year. He did try passing the ball, and it wasnt pretty. Magic johnson would have gone postal hitting those guys with passes.
I'm going to nickname you "the brain" then because you know things people have no way of knowing.
LeBron would've led the Lakers to the playoffs with Smush and Kwame starting... How do you know? You have no way of knowing that... Then you turn around and say that if you put Kobe on the Cavs, they'd lose in the first or second round... Once again, how do you know that? Without Gasol, Kobe still wouldn't have learned how to play team ball... I just don't understand how you can make these claims.
People think LeBron plays better "team" ball than what he does. Just because he averages 7-8 assists doesn't mean he's a great team player. And how great would LeBron fit in the triangle? He and Kobe have completely different skills sets. You just have no way of knowing...
I said LeBron could've done the scoring Kobe did too if they needed it, he averaged 31.4 that year already. I understand 35 ppg is incredible but I'm sure LeBron could do it if he wanted/needed. Kobe averaged 27 shots per game that year and averaged 4 points more then LeBron who averaged 23 shots per game.
I agree that fitting in the triangle is mystery, because LeBron has never run an offense like it. No I don't know that he would do those things, I am very confident in them though. LeBron is more unselfish the Kobe, We also agree that he is the better player, so why wouldn't those seem logical?
who knows though, there are a lot of who knows things going on. Kobe in his prime that year was a better scorer then lebron. Teams doubled kobe all year. He averaged 40 points for an entire month, he dropped 81, he put up 50 on 10 different occasions, he outscored the mavs for 3 quarters all by himself in a game. He was hitting crazy jumpers that had no business going in that year. Are you sure lebron could do all that while getting more defensive attention then he has probably ever got? You could give lebron the advantage in many areas, but he was not a better scorer then prime kobe.
I do not think LeBron would have gotten 81 or 62 in 3 quarters. I do think he could average 35 a game, while getting more defensive attention then he has probably ever got, because that is all he had gone through with the Cavs anyway. It's not like he wasn't already the sole attention of Cleveland.
How is LeBron more unselfish than Kobe? LeBron has the ball 95% of the time...
I think LeBron is the better individual player. I just don't think he has a very diverse game. Below average post game. Average mid-range/in between game. Average shooter. He hasn't shown he can play off of the ball, move without the ball, etc. I just don't know how he'd fit in the triangle and if he could be more successful than Kobe like you're claiming to know.
I just said I don't know, but that I'm very confident. Read what I said. And also, what does him not having a post game have to do with any of this? I could go name Kobe's weaknesses. Plus if you think Kobe before Gasol came was a better team player then LeBron, lord help you.
post game is actually very important in the triangle offense. Kobe and jordan both had great highpost and low post back to the basket games. What the triangle does not do well is give a typical hold the ball at the top and dribble around for 10-15 seconds like a pg while everyone else stands around. And lets be honest, that is what lebron does.
Tell me if you think the Lakers would've won the last 2 championships with LeBron, how far the Cavs would've gotten with Kobe the year the made the Finals and if LeBron could've gotten the Smush/Kwame team to the playoffs. I would like to hear your opinions on them.
I read what you said, which is the problem lol. You don't have any type of proof, etc to back up anything you posted. You're making claims based on things you or anybody else has no way of ever knowing.
Have you watched the triangle? Kobe and MJ both have/had diverse games. They could isolate and clear out, move without the ball, draw doubles in the post, had in between/mid-range games... They were complete offensive players and were able to do damage without always dominating the ball, leaving room for OTHER players to play a role. Perfect fits for the triangle. LeBron is the most ball dominate player in the NBA. He'd be more like Pippen in the triangle, not Kobe and Mike.
Name Kobe's weaknesses lol.
i think the lakers would have won 1 if not both titles. Hard to say becasue there were some very close series and you being a suns fan should know how well kobe played in that series. As for the lebron led finals team, i think kobe might have gotten them there. The east was absolute garbage that year. Detroit was the only decent team the cavs played and detroit choked. The cavs were the easiest series the spurs had all playoffs. Keep in mind the lakers were 1 rebound away from advancing pass your suns that series. As for leading the lakers to the playoffs, yes lebron would have done that too. Not sure about the year the lakers missed the playoffs though becasue the lakers were injury riddled. Kobe missed a month, lamar missed a month, guys were breaking down that year.
I think this "clutch" stat is missleading because Kobe was in more close games than Lebron who usually blows oppenents out
Lebron not diverse???
Most athletically gifted player in basketball. Best playmaker for a guy his size since Magic.7 ast 7 rpg in his career. Gets to the line at will because of his ability to attack the rim. Along with Howard is the best defender in the league. Disrupts passing lanes and the NBA created a new stat because of his famous chasedown blocks. Statistically the best player in the 4th quarter, the last 5 minutes and the last 24 seconds...That might not absolutely mean hes 'the best' but hes still up there with Kobe. 3 point shooting is equal to Kobe and better than Melo.
Postup game is not what it could be with his size but hes basically played PG his entire career and probably will do more of the smae this year. There are definitely ways to defend him as seen as Boston showed but I think Wade and Bosh are going to be a slight upgrade over Williams and Jamison lol and take away the defense's focus from James now.
Is LeBron immune to learning? Kobe had how much experience in the triangle? A lot. I am not saying anything in fact, just what I believe what would happen, you can't prove things like that and I realize that. Kobe still gets 1/3 points in the 1 on 1, so it's not like LeBron couldn't reduce his from 1/2.
Kobe weaknesses: Doesn't really know his limits at times, and his shot-selection can be queswtionable. He will settle for some impossibly hard shots, mostly from behind the 3 point line. He is notorious for being selfish for long stretches, although I agree he has improved that a lot. He will coast on defense for large parts of games.
lebron is diverse obviously. But he really needs to have a better impact when the ball is not in his hands. Its the little intangibles like kobe fighting for post positino on the weak side and drawing defensive attention that opens up plays for his teammates. Lebron often dribbles down the clock and then passes to someone who is open but they are not in a great position to score. Now they dont have time to go one on one or make the extra pass becasue lebron already used up the clock and they either have to shoot and make it or miss it. Great for lebron stats but no so good for running an offense. And hes not as good a 3 point shooter as kobe either.
Kobe murdered the Suns in the playoffs this year, he couldn't miss.
I think perception is reality, if you are a Kobe Bryant fan you will precieve him as more clutch or a better player and the same goes for Lebron James... IMO neither player is afraid to take a clutch shot and neither are afraid of the big momment (games), but Kobe has the edge in the form of championsip rings...
Of course Lebron is ball dominant he's a PG trapped in a SF's body
Also, with the championship argument, if Kobe wins two more championships does that make him automatically better than Jordan. I don't think so, but with some of the comments I feel a lot of Kobe fans won't hesitate to anoint Kobe the GOAT if he wins two more.
LeBron isn't a complete offensive player. He doesn't even have a go-to move. He doesn't have a post game. His mid-range/in-between game is average. He's an average shooter. He hasn't shown that he's comfortable playing off the ball, which is why people have doubts the he and Dwayne Wade can work.
Everything for LeBron is off of the dribble. He needs isolations/clear outs. He dribbles the entire shot clock and then gets those assists to his teammates. That's not good basketball. It makes the offense predictable and stagnate.
And LeBron isn't a great defender either. He's a great weakside/helpside defender, but I think his defense is overrated. People just get caught up in the hype of his chase down blocks. He's improved, but he's still not a great on ball defender.
He also isn't as good as a three-point shooter or shooter in general as Kobe.
Lebron James probably has the highest basketball IQ in the league, so I dont think he would have a problem playing in the triangle offense...
kobe being considered better then jordan wont be automatic no matter how many titles he wins. But if he passes jordan it sure gives us laker fans some ammo in an argument and at the very least it becoms an argument. Especially if he does it over lebron and wade who lots of people on this site say are both better then kobe.
Woah I don't know about Lebron having the highest IQ in the league, I'd still give that to Kobe. I'll give Kobe his props, NOONE studies the game as much as he does.
For somebody who isnt a complete offensive player he sure is effective, he is the most dominant offensive force in the league.. Cavs have won 60 percent of their games since they drafted Lebron James, so its a clear FACT he is a winner and makes his team better... Lebron James is probably one of the top 3 defensive small fowards in the league..
The idea the Lebron just dribbles around and passes to his teamates is stupid, Mike Brown wasnt very creative in his offensive sets and it showed.. Kobe has a tendency to dribble around and take some crazy off balance shots, but people say he takes tough shots even through he is the reason some of the shots are tough...
By the numbers 3pt shooting is pretty even and numbers dont lie
Theyre two completely different players. Lebron cant touch Kobes mid range ability and Kobe cant touch Lebrons ability to attack the rim or his passing. I want to see what Lebron is able to do with some talent around him and in actual offense. As we've seen the last few years one on one iso does not work at all in the playoffs. ATL couldnt get anything going against ORL and CLE got owned by BOS for two reasons:1 Neither team had a offensive gameplan because their coaches were basically bums and they were overall outmatched talent wise. Lebron has never really needed to operate without the ball in his career since he has always been his teams only playmaker. With the ball also in Wade's hands this year Lebron will have to play without the ball and there is no reason he shouldnt be able to get any position he wants on the court since hell be bigger and stronger than anybody that tries to guard him.
i cant even understand this argument. you cant argue with 5 championships to 0. you cant argue with 6 game winners this year, and you cant argue 85% ft to about 72%. its not perception on who i like more. when you watch kobe in the last 2 minutes in the game, you know that the lakers are going to win. with lebron its 50/50. lebron is clutch but i know kobe is going to win me the game.
Lebron is nowhere near the scorer Kobe will ever be. Granted, Lebron is more imposing so he doesnt need to be at this point in this career.
Lebrons go to move? Put he big as* head down and drive down the lane and get fouled. It works.
Just the fact that Lebron has no offensive moves besides drive and get fouled is incredible because he is top 5 in scoring per game by doing just that.
But when he can no longer run and jump like he can we will see how he compares to Kobe who has refined his post game mid range and just about everything else offensively. Right now I think Kobe is more clutch but he also has EXPERIENCE which makes him more clutch as of this year.
Honestly, LeBron James does not need a "go to" move. hes just too good. who needs a "go to" move when you drop 27 points a game? Give me a break
I think Lebron will be pretty good even when he loses most of his athleticism. His jumper has improved every year and so has his defense, when his athleticism goes he'll adjust