[dylanhouParticipant]

This is a perfect trade for both teams… idk why everyone is questioning it.

Warriors- have an elite level frontcourt with lee and bogut and it opens room for curry to run the team and klay thompson to get his opportunity to shine at the 2

Bucks- Bogut didnt play almost all year and they are tied for 8th in the east right now so adding ellis for basically nothing (2 players that havent played in months) is a no brainer to boost their playoff chances.

Also, brandon jennings this season has been forced to single handedly carry the scoring load and they basically lose every game he doesnt deliver. so ellis shares the load now and gives them the offense they need from their weakest position (sg) when bj is at pg, and they already play bj off the ball half the time this year so that fits perfect with ellis’ combo guard style as well

[TruettParticipant]

…. then it is a good trade.. but he has not played much in the last 4 years which is worrisome…I think part of the hope is that they end up tanking and get below the 7th pick in the draft so they can keep their pick this year… I think the criticism comes from people who see Bogut as a lemon and would have liked a 1st rounder thrown in the deal..Personally I think they could have kept monta and signed someone like kaman in the offseason which would have been better for them long term…

[bigblackNbeautifulParticipant]

 Idk if its perfect. But the fact the bucks got rid of captain jack and got udoh back makes them the winner. The way Ersan is playing and gooden suprisingly. add udoh to larry sanders and Leuer when he gets mins. Not an awful front court. I think it comes down to boguts health in GS and if ellis plays enough d for skiles and if he can co exsist with jennings on the same court. With out the opposing guards scoring 30 a piece per night. Im interested to see how it works. as a wisconsin naitive Im looking forward to Ellis at least being able to play entertaining basketball.

[DipoTimeParticipant]

 The Warriors have an "elite frontcourt" but the Bucks got somebody averaging 22 and 6 for basically nothing? How does that work lol

[CoolidgerParticipant]

Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis backcourt didn’t work. Curry is actually 2 inches taller then Brandon Jennings. What makes you think Jennings/Ellis will work any better with mediocore surrounding pieces?

 

The Bucks add an undersized 2, a project big man who plays very similar to another guy who came out of the same draft class (Larry Sanders) and an expiring contract who adds very little to this team because they have a whole bunch of mediocore big guys with no one standing out, except maybe Ilyasova with his play as of late.

 

The Warriors get an overpaid headache and a big guy who’s barely played the past 2 seasons. However, I will say this, if Bogut gets healthy and plays similar to how he did when he led the Bucks to sixth in the east, then the Warriors got a nice addition. However, it’s still rather risky and they’ve given up a proven scorer and taken on Stephen Jackson for a big (literally and figuratively) maybe.

[dylanhouParticipant]

@srbadger because bogut hasnt played this season and jackson hasnt been playing most of it… so basically they added ellis without losing 1 person that has been in the rotation this year. But if bogut gets healthy next year him and david lee is a really good frontcourt. whos is better in the west besides gasol bynum on the lakers?

 

@Coolidger alot of people say the ellis curry combo didnt work, but its not like it was bad… it wasnt great but ellis jennings still works a whole lot better than carlos delfino and jennings right? the new bucks backcourt might not work better and might be almost equal to the old warriors but its still an upgrade for the bucks though

[pointgod80Participant]

 bogut and david lee is not an elite front court

[dylanhouParticipant]

@pointgod80 What pf/c combo in the league is better? besides bynum gasol

 

[4thewinParticipant]

this is just my oppinion but I would say most of these combos would be better.

Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol, Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan,Amare and Tyson,Dwight and Ryan Anderson,Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson.

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 how was  bogut a number 1 overall pick

[RafterParticipant]

Honestly, neither team has gotten much better, the Bucks have been playing most of the season without Bogut so to actually get something of Ellis’ stature is pretty good but when you think how small their backcourt is going to be it’s not actually a great deal eventhough Ellis does improve the Bucks’ offense, a Jennings and Ellis backcourt is too small and too poor defensively to be pose a serious threat to the best teams, they’ll be a great tandem on offense don’t get me wrong but considering the makeup of the team, i liked Bogut being a pick and roll threat with Jennings more.

As for Udoh, the Warriors gave up on him, why he was picked ahead of guys like Ed Davis, Paul George and most notably, Greg Monroe, i’ll never know, it’s not like i’m speaking retrospectively either, those guys were projected to be better pros and were considered better prospects at the time. The Warriors tried thinking outside of the box and trying to show off their scouting ability by selecting a guy that had something other teams missed, they failed in that regard. Udoh and Brown will provide defensive cover but neither have the ability to be full time starters. It gives Gooden the opportunity to be their starting center now, his position would be under question if Bogut was returning, due to this move, Gooden is the starting center with Udoh being the second string and Brown being the third.

As for the Warriors, the most important aspect is that Klay Thompson is going to get more opportunities, they could move Jax to the three as Wright hasn’t been anymore near the level he was last season. If Jackson becomes the starting shooting guard, Thompson’s minutes will increase due to Jackson not being as good as he used to be, Thompson is going to get more chances. The Warriors have an extremely high opinion of Thompson, all i read is good things about him in Warriors news. Bogut could help when healthy but he’s injury prone, he’s hasn’t played a full season since his rookie season six years ago and he could hurt the Warriors due to his contract that runs out in 2015. The Warriors say they want to become more defensive minded but they bring in Bogut to play alongside Lee which is one of the worst defensive big men partnerships in the league. Bogut isn’t that same allstar caliber player that he was a couple of season either, having said all of that, offensively him and Lee will cause headaches for opposing coaches due to their abilities on offense. And Bogut is going to get his fair share of blocks, so there is a degree of optimism here.

Also, you see their projected line-up and it really isn’t that defensively strong:

PG: Curry, not quick or athletic enough to contain star point guards

SG: Thompson, not aggressive, not strong, not quick

SF: Jackson, used to be a pretty capable defender, he’s getting older, i question his overall ability now

PF: Lee, isn’t really going to lock down anyone

C: Bogut, can block shots but post defense is poor

The Warriors are now an offensive minded, intelligent ball club with a poor defensive starting five that isn’t very athletic, i want to make this clear, i’m not knocking their offensive talent, i question how they’re going to stop teams from scoring. At least they had an X factor with Ellis, where’s the inspiration in this starting five? Curry? It would be a big ask for someone that has been battling injuries this season. It appears, Jackson and Thompson will have to step up.

Like i said, this trade doesn’t make either team better, the Bucks would need to move Jennings to make it a good move but Jennings has been playing very well this season, the Warriors will make more moves in the summer, it’s more than likely they’ll get a pick of seven or higher which gives them their draft pick back due to their pick being protected in the top 7, i think they’ll trade for more picks and start the rebuilding process.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 @Robbed: Bogut basically lived up to his number one draft position. He scores on the block, he had a reputation as a good passer and he does pass okay, he has lead the league in blocks and seems to be settling into a nice 2.5 blocks a game, and he makes pretty much everyone’s list of top five players at his position. If he didn’t play in Milwakee and if he hadn’t hurt himself on that dunk two years ago, I think he would have solidified himself as a star player in the league. 

But I think this trade is a tank job to maintain that 7 or better draft pick. If Bogut comes back and is his old self, the trade works because you have a good center which is very hard to get. But in any case, you lose the rest of the season and you can draft a stud in this coming draft class. 

Udoh might be more of a loss than people realize. He doesn’t put up stats, but he does have a rediculous +/-. We are well into the season and Udoh has played 43% of the available minutes, so good sample size. The warriors become 19 points per game better with him on the court versus off the court. That is off the charts difference. That is better than Steve Nash’s +/- during his MVP years. Basically the warriors are losing games badly when Udoh is on the bench and then when he is on the court they are winning games easily. It is that big a swing. Now why that happens is unclear. This may just be an example of where +/- is giving us really bad data. Because Udoh doesn’t do anything special in any of the stat categories and the guy he is guarding generally continues to have a decent game when Udoh is in. But something happens because the Warriors are a completely different team when he is on the court. 

I thing he was a big part of Milwakees trade request. It just tells you how little regard Ellis is held in that Milwakee could demand that a cheap rookie get thrown in or no deal; even though they were giving up a guy who wouldn’t play the rest of the season and who might never play at a high level consistently again when you look at all the injuries.  

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 Oh, and looking back at the 2005 draft. There was CP3 and Deron Williams, who turned into studs. But Bogut and Bynum are arguably the next two best players from that draft. Bynum was out of highschool and was not a number 1 pick. He would have been more of a risk than Bogut. D. Lee was also in that draft and went 30th, but Bogut has outperformed D. Lee except for some of the freak injuries to Bogut. 

The Bucks had the young Mo Williams on their team at the time and I suspect they thought that had a good PG already. You can second guess that draft, but it doesn’t look that bad in hindsight. 

[Harbinger]

 epke plays nothing like larry sanderds he may block shot like him but he has a good offensive game he just donest get the ball much  unless he grabs it himself more times then not. I wasnt a big fan of him untill i saw him play in person after monta I can say he was the second best player for gs curry is injury prone and misses chunks of games every season.The bucks got a steal and cap room ,wouldnt be surprised if the got a new coach also.

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

I think the Warriors clearly win this trade. Not now, but in the future they will. They have a bigger backcourt now, and they find the center that they have been looking for. The Bucks get a smaller backcourt and a ? center. I call Udoh a ? center because no one really knows what your going to get out of him. We know he’s good defensively but I haven’t seen anything offensively from him. And he’s only 6’10 so with him and Sanders or even him and Illyasova they will have a small frontcourt and a small backcourt. (Both Sanders and Illyasova are 6’9) Can you really win with both a small backcourt and a small frontcourt in the NBA? Yes, Udoh and Sanders have big wingspans but a big wingspan can only get you so far but size can get you even further. Udoh is kind of like Kendrick Perkins and Sanders has Serge Ibaka like upside but he’ll probably end up more like Tyrus Thomas.

The other thing I see as a downside is that Jennings still might leave. He has always hinted at it. While you would think that he would stay now with a backcourt mate such as Ellis, he might still leave because he knows the downside of having a small backcourt. He saw it in the Warriors. They were not very good defensively with that small of a backcourt. We all know that defense wins game, so honestly I’d say that an Ellis and Jennings backcourt will be very similar to what an Ellis and Curry backcourt provided. A whole lot of offense but lacking defensively.

A third problem that I see is Ellis clashing with Coach Skiles. Stephen Jackson clashed with him, Ellis has that same attitude, so wouldn’t he clash with Coach Skiles as well? This too could lead to Jennings leaving.

The Warriors clearly win from this trade but for now both teams will have a similar performance because Bogut is hurt. The Warriors right now have the 10th pick (goes to the Jazz) and that was with Brown hurt, and Ellis in the backcourt. Now, Bogut is still hurt and is probably out for the rest of the season. So the Warriors will start Biedrins, they’ll basically be same team as before but with a bigger backcourt. So they’ll be a little better defensively but not much because Jackson is not that good of a defender. That’s for right now, but in the future they could be great, just as long as Bogut stays healthy and they find a better small forward than Wright. They could have already found him. They could start Thompson at the 2, and Jackson at the 3, moving Wright to the bench as a backup to Jackson, and Rush could backup Thompson!

[dylanhouParticipant]

@Fire_the_Coach youre right the grizzlies and clippers is probably better, idk about milsap and jefferson though, but the other 2 are in the east (as of now)

so  the bogut/lee allows them to match up with other contenders in the west like the lakers grizzlies and clippers though thats all im saying their frontcourts will be pretty even with those teams and better than other west teams now

[Author]

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