[bobbybParticipant]

Gets no respect. I read an article that he is only reguarded as top 8-10 best?  He averaged 20 points a game! So maybe he didnt grab so many rebounds, but NENE only averages 1.6 more rebounds than brook last year, big deal. Also one reason for Brooks decline in rebounds was that he had KHUMP grabbing all the rebounds. The year before Brook averaged 2 more rebounds. Also he has more Blk per game than Chandler and NENE.

[B FreeParticipant]

Rebounds are a big part of playing the Center position and people want to see their Centers rebound and I don’t care if you have a guy on your team who is all about rebounding if you pull down 6 a game as a true 7 footer people will not be happy with your production especially when there are SGs and SFs out rebounding you it shows lack of effort IMO. So my guess is you have Bargnani rated high as well?

[dmo21Participant]

I view rebounding as a team issue. It takes a whole team to rebound good, everybody has to box out and everybody has to go for the ball. Do you expect your 7 foot centers to get the long rebounds out to the 3 point line? No. Do you expect your point guards to get the rebounds down low under the net? No. It takes a whole team to rebound efficiently. So if New Jersey out rebounds there opponents 80% of the time and Lopez only averages 5rbds, I’d be happy cause maybe Lopez boxes out his guy who can no longer get the rebound and it bounces to the other side of the net and Hump grabs the board? You can’t judge rebounding on stats alone, you have to view how they play and I don’t watch enough of Lopez to say if he is good or bad. But I watch the majority of Raptor games and I can tell you Bargnani is a bad rebounder, rarely boxes out and no effort to get the ball.

[B FreeParticipant]

 You have a point, but Lopez isn’t the guy boxing out he put in all his effort on the offensive end. Actually he pulls down 2.4 offensive boards which is respectable compared to his 3.6 defensive rebounds, because he puts in the effort at the offensive end and wants all the chance at scoring possible.

[dmo21Participant]

It matters how the bigs play offense. Like with Bargnani he usually does his business at the 3 point line, so he ends up out of position when rebounding and is probably why he has guard like rebounding numbers.

I actaully put some numbers together and figured that there was 0.167rebounds for every minute during the Nets games last year. Lopez grabbed 0.169 rebounds for every minute he played, which means he is grabbing more boards than there is available, which means he rebounds at an efficiency rate of 101%. Humphries rebounded at 224%, Bargnani at 87%, Howard at 209%, and Love at 231%. These numbers can generate a consensus that Bargnani is a weak rebounder, Lopez is a good rebounder, and Humphries/Howard/Love are exceptional rebounders.

Sometimes pace of game and defense plays in part of how many rebounds are available. If you play a slow pace there will be less rebounds. If your defense sucks and the other team scores at will against you, there will be less rebounds.

[JoeWolf1]

 I don’t like the excuse of a good rebounding power forward "stealing" rebounds from a center and that is why he has a low rebounding rate.  

Bill Lambier averaged 9 rpg next to Rodman’s 12.5

David Robinson averaged over 10 rpg in both seasons with Rodman

Bird, McHale, and Parish ALL averaged close to or above 10 rpg in multiple seasons together.

Lamarcus Aldridge averaged 9 to Camby’s 10 last year

I could go on all day digging up more stats to back this up.  Kris Humphries career high 10 rpg is not the reason why Lopez averaged 6 rpg last season.  I agree with dmo on this one.  There were 3,349 rebounds collected by the Nets last year and Brook Lopez got 488 of them.  You can’t hang that on Humphries, especially since Humphries missed the last 8 games of the season and Lopez still averaged exactly 6.0 rpg including games of 2, 3 (twice) and 4 rebounds in that time period.  Were Dan Gadzuric and Johan Petro stealing them from him then?

[B FreeParticipant]

 @dmo  none of that means anything

[dmo21Participant]

Another issue I have with defensive rebounds is that they are usually uncontested. After a shot goes up usually all of the offensive team gets back on D while 3 or 4 of the defensive team starts trotting down as well. That leaves 1 or 2 guys, that are on the same team, to grab a rebound. How hard is that? This is why I usually look at offensive rebounding numbers if I wanna see if the guy has a nose for the ball and is tenacious. I’d like to see a stat for contested defensive rebounds where they actually have to box out with a guy going after the offensive rebound.

 

JoeWolf, those guys may have had increased rebounding numbers by playing superb defense as well. If you make the other team miss more shots you will see more rebounds. But I’m not taking anything away from any of those guys, they were all excellent rebounders.

 

[bobbybParticipant]

I know Brook Lopez isnt a great rebounder, he is a go to guy in the post which is rare today. My point is that Nene isnt a great rebounder either. And he is not even close to Lopez when it comes to scoring.

[dmo21Participant]

I would actually prefer Nene to Lopez. Nene can play either power forward and center. He plays good defense and is a good rebounder. And I actually like Nene’s offensive game. Low post tenacity where he used his athleticism and quickness to score. He goes hard at the basket. But he is going to get paid wayy more than he should this year.

[bobbybParticipant]

if you take Brooks first 3 season and compare them to Nene’s past 3 years, they have the SAME rebounds per game.

[dmo21Participant]

You can’t always look at stats though. You watch Nene and you see the energy and tenacity he plays with. He also doesn’t need to be fed the ball to be effective (great field goal %) and can work beside a star player (Anthony). Nene also had problems with weight, health, and injuries which he is over with.

[bobbybParticipant]

You cant look at stats? People have been bashing Brook because he only averaged 6 rpg and now when i bring up that he averaged the same rpg as Nene that it doesnt count? I think Nene is a good player, above average center but he is not even close to as good as Brook Lopez

[bobbybParticipant]

field goal percentage means nothing, It is a stat for dunkers. Remember Shaq used to lead the league in fg percentage

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 Huh Bobby? You complain that Shaq used to lead the league in FG percentage? Yes, and he was the best player in the league for many of those years. So what is your point and what are we supposed to remember about Shaq and his field goal percentage.

Lopez’s rebounding was problematic. That is the point. That is why people don’t think he is going to be a top 5 center. Scoring 20 points a game is nice and impressive, but who else where the Nets going to go to for points after DWill? Lopez seems to lack the range to be able to grab boards out of his position and that creates problems for the Nets or anyone who is going to play him 35 minutes a night. I’m not saying Lopez doesn’t bring enough to the table scoring-wise to make up for it. I think he does and he should be starting center wherever he plays. But he is going to be a weak rebounding center and that is just the way it is going to be.

But if the Nets turn him into D Howard, I will certainly be pleased.  

[bobbybParticipant]

So then is NENE’s rebounding problematic also when the average the same amout of rebounds for the last 3 seasons?

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

That is when you know that someone is running very low on points for their argument. Chris Andersen blocks shots and he is not in the same defensive realm as Nene or Chandler. FG% does matter, even if Nene takes fewer than Lopez. Lopez’s lack of rebounding could not all be on Kris Humphries, it was definitely on him as well. 1.6 per game matters. Would you rather a player average 10 or 8.4? That is a pretty wide gap. It is of course dependent on the system to an extent, but the fact is, Lopez had an awful rebounding year.

Nene is stronger than Brook and a much better athlete. He may not have the offensive game of Lopez, but he plays his role incredibly well, which is a reason why he is probably considered a better center. Brook is not a bad player and he had a very solid rookie year. His numbers went up in his second year, but his team finished 12-70! Than last year, he averaged 20, but he also averaged 6 rebounds while his team won 24 games. Granted, his team is not strong, but I think that teams feel more confident in winning basketball games with Nene at center than Brook Lopez.

Nene is not a go-to scorer, but I do not think Lopez should be either. The fact that he needs the ball much more than Nene to be effective is slightly discouraging and usually not what a team typically wants out of a center. The fact that Dwight Howard takes 3 less shots than him per game and still averages about 3 points more shows how much field goal percentage matters. Brook has a better post game than either Dwight or Nene, but his lack of athleticism and his incredibly low rebounding numbers last season show that while he is a good scorer, it does not appear that he is yet an elite center. He could get better, but the odds are Nene will still be better at the majority of the things one would want from the position.

[bobbybParticipant]

dont just go after one year, they have the same rpg for the last 3 years

[bobbybParticipant]

Here is my whole point, EVEN if you think NENE is slightly better, WHY would you pay 16 mill per instead of Brook where he will only make 3 mil and next year 4mill

[dmo21Participant]

So your going to compare what Nene will probably get in this free agency after having a good year against Lopez’s rooking contract that was not decided by the gm or how he plays. When he becomes a free agent he will probably get paid around the same amount as Nene.

And why is the option between Nene and Lopez, are the Nets deciding between the two of them?

[bobbybParticipant]

they cant play together on the same floor.

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